Powerbook and PowerMac Updates - October 19th?

[igetbanned]

How much faster will the Dual Core PowerMacs be? Which programs will benefit from it?

Depends on the application, and the task.

Dual-core provides about a 50% improvement (in theory).

 

[SiliconAddict]

and a new chipset

If a new chipset is being used there is a high probability that they are using a Freescale CPU which in turn sounds like Apple may be waiting for Merom which will be out 2nd half of '06.


*sighs* I've waited two year for an updated PowerBook. What's one more.

 

[AidenShaw]

they will be "crippled"

When Apple moves to Intel and what CPUs they select decides what the lowest common denominator will be. It won't be "Dothan" or "Mermom" or "Yonah", it will be x86-32 with SSE2, x86-32 with SSE3 or x86-64 with SSE3. The choice is critical because if the choice becomes x86-32 with SSE2, then the top end machines will be crippled without even fatter binaries that also include an x86-64 with SSE3 version.

Thanks for the words of support...

BTW, Apple has already made the decision to cripple the Yonah/Merom systems and force another O/S transition (to x64) on developers....

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/1740048/

I was off on the dual-core Xeon timetable, Intel's starting to ship those already.

 

[lcde]

they wouldnt realse a product with problems. Im shure the pb they realase will have very little to no bugs at all.

either way they seem pretty good about recalls (ipod and ibook batteries)

 

[SiliconAddict]

either way they seem pretty good about recalls

Class action lawsuits, and threats of, have a way of doing that.

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Because I've used different java IDEs and different java based software, on both Win and Linux, and the bigger the program, the slower it runs.

And that link is pretty useless, some of it's sources are no longer available.

Sorry, it's the only one I had bookmarked. The Java vs. ____ (insert language here) ____ argument has been being fought for a decade now. Do a Google search and I'm sure you'll find multiple "winning" arguements on either side.

My point is that it's not Java that's slow - and maybe I misunderstood your complaint - but I do agree that some IDE's and other large app's can turn into memory and/or CPU hogs. Usually, I find it to be the fault of a plugin (at least in the case of Eclipse) that was poorly written or, more commonly, the fact that the application being worked on is huge and/or has bad design which the IDE is trying to index/understand.

For instance, Eclipse 3.1 on my G4 500 is relatively fast (for a 500Mhz G4), but as soon as I try to work on a big, bloated, out of control software project (no names given to protect my job!) it starts eating large chunks of memory. IntelliJ is even worse.

Native (non-Java) app's can suffer the same problem. i.e.: iPhoto with 4000+ images, iDVD '04

Java can be faster than C/C++ though, because the modern VM's can actually optimize the machine code on the fly - caching and re-optimizing heavily used code to be more efficient based on real time usage patterns, not just assuming what to optimze at compile time. (Objective-C may also provide similar capabilities as it relies on a runtime environment too, but I've not heard that it does)

Trying to bring this back on topic though, my bigest problem with Java on my Macs is that I have to run 10.4 in order to use JDK 1.5 - I wish Apple would speed up it's Java release cycles and stop forcing people to upgrade for no good reason. (I guess that was still off topic -- sorry! )

 

[Some_Big_Spoon]

What's the point in having DDR 333 or 400MHz RAM for that matter (which they currently have). No one wants to talk about what a major embarrasement the powerbooks are. Celeron's have a faster bus for god's sake.

What i'll find amusing is if they actually do get the (OH BOY!) 200MHz bus, people will be freaking out over the performance gains since we've been stuck at 167 for a few years.

But this one goes to 11!

I smell bullcrap all over this one. The 7447A has a FSB of 166mhz. What the hell would be the point of stuffing DDR2 into that bottleneck? Even the 7448, which has a 200mhz FSB, would be questionable. And they will be using a 7448. I can't imagine there being so many problems that they wont even bump the speed up with a better processor.

 

[~Shard~]

I agree with all of this. I would dare say 85% chance this is spot on.

Thanks joecool85, glad to know I'm not completely out of it...

 

[lcde]

I know i keep shooting in the dark (and dreaming) but the MPC8641 Processor has built in DDR2 and pcie controller. This would allow for a smaller footprint (or more room for cooling).

Once again. This would (wishfully) explain the lack of speed bump and production problems. Why would the 7448 (or 7447A) give them any problems if it is just pin for pin compatable?

Press release for the MCP8641 was back in SEPT. 28, 2004 which would give apple their whole year of development. The e600 core is the same core in the 7447A/8.

I also don't buy (even with previous posts) that apple would hurt their pro line. They would loose too many developers.


EDIT: Also it would make the line respectable again. Apple has always been known for their pro line. and now that they have more money because of ipod they should be able to dump more into their higher end products.

It just doesn't make sense to have a 200MHz bus and DDR2. Its a waste of power and incompatable specs.

 

[obeygiant]

Well I hope that they do come out with a dual core Power Mac next week because I need one.

who dosen't?

 

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Intel! ;-)

who dosen't?

 

[~Shard~]

well, heres my $.02 cents on what i think..... for the powermac we will see a dual core 3.0 ghz pci-e video card and new memory at pc4200 ddr!!

I don't know what the speed will be of the new PowerMac chips, but yes, they will undoubtedly be dual core. As for the PCIe and DDR2 memory, this is a foregone conclusion since they have now been implemented in the iMac - Apple would not include this technology in a consumer level machine without including it in a Pro user machine as well, so this isn't really even up for debate in my opinion.

Oh, and please don't use bold throughout your replies, it's quite annoying for other readers.

 

[ajwitte]

I know i keep shooting in the dark (and dreaming) but the MPC8641 Processor has built in DDR2 and pcie controller. This would allow for a smaller footprint (or more room for cooling).

Once again. This would (wishfully) explain the lack of speed bump and production problems. Why would the 7448 (or 7447A) give them any problems if it is just pin for pin compatable?

Press release for the MCP8641 was back in SEPT. 28, 2004 which would give apple their whole year of development. The e600 core is the same core in the 7447A/8.

I also don't buy (even with previous posts) that apple would hurt their pro line. They would loose too many developers.


EDIT: Also it would make the line respectable again.

That would totally rock.

But the latest word from Freescale is that the 8461D would be available in the second half of next year. The single core 8461 only slightly before that.
By that time Apple will either already have Intel PBs, or they would release them at the same time an 8461 PB would become possible.

 

[~Shard~]

Although its HIGHLY unlikely the MPC8641D is a 1.67 Ghz Dual core with 1MB of cache. This would be NO increase in speed but a huge boost in power. Plus i think they run pretty cool

Anyway... here's to dreaming:

MPC8641D
HD display
Dual Layer DVD-RW
iSight
biometrics?
PCIe

If the speeds stayed the same, perhaps, however I would see a 7448 being more likely than a 8641 myself (which obviously would entail a speed boost).

 

[digitalbiker]

I know i keep shooting in the dark (and dreaming) but the MPC8641 Processor has built in DDR2 and pcie controller. This would allow for a smaller footprint (or more room for cooling).

Once again. This would (wishfully) explain the lack of speed bump and production problems. Why would the 7448 (or 7447A) give them any problems if it is just pin for pin compatable?

Press release for the MCP8641 was back in SEPT. 28, 2004 which would give apple their whole year of development. The e600 core is the same core in the 7447A/8.

I also don't buy (even with previous posts) that apple would hurt their pro line. They would loose too many developers.


EDIT: Also it would make the line respectable again.

I would love to see the low-power dual core G4 in the PB but from all reports this chip is not expected to be in full production until 1st Qtr 2006.

Of course Freescale has been sampling this chip for 9 months now so maybe they have enough to provide an initial shipment to Apple until production is in full swing next year.

This would be the ultimate PB at this point. Dual-core, faster system bus, PCI-E, DDR2, High-res display. Killer! This would definitely tide me over for the next few years so that I can ignore the Intel growing pains.

 

[Butts M Biggilo]

The First Night With My Dual Dual Core G5, A man’s story.

Pan across a Computer Room The Room is a pigsty, papers piled up caving in toward a worn computer chair. We notice dangling wires and a missing G5 computer....

Enter the bedroom. Camera zooms in closely cropped on the main character, me. I happen to be in bed.

Me (Smoking a cigarette): "Damn I havent felt a rush like that in years, if ever"

I attempt to blow out G shapes while exhaling slowly, but only manage a loose fog.

Me: "You sound great. Yeah, i know a lot of users might say something like that, but I mean it, really."

A whirring and slight tinny ding can be heard from off-screen.

Me: "What? Are you accusing me of visiting those rumor sites. No way baby. No way." (Long, uncomfortable drag on a quickly dwindling cigarette)

More whirring.

Me: "I only wanted to confirm... I mean I could hardly believe... Your hot dual, dual core, PCI Express, and DDR2. ....I’ll never, ever leave you"

Pans out. A brand spanking new Apple G5 is sprawled in the center of the bed. You pick the compromising pose. (You sick people.)

Stay Tuned for my next short play "Trouble for Dualie, enter Intel (That hussy)

 

[manu chao]

I smell bullcrap all over this one. The 7447A has a FSB of 166mhz. What the hell would be the point of stuffing DDR2 into that bottleneck? Even the 7448, which has a 200mhz FSB, would be questionable. And they will be using a 7448. I can't imagine there being so many problems that they wont even bump the speed up with a better processor.

I am all with you, but what if Freescales screws up the whole thing and is not able to deliver enough 7448s before the mid of December? What should Apple do in this case?

 

[i3iz]

Some interesting probings....

The guy mentioned the australia store has different pbs, but their imac is the old one.

The india store has an emac and the U2 ipod. Not much happening out there. or maybe they are clearing out their stock there.


The singapore store has a turn around time of 24hrs on all pbs, didnt check pms. Where is apple manufactured? i know they are "Designed in Cali"

As a graphic/web designer and photographer/videographer, i constantly have the need for multiple programs open in conjunction with each other. Dreamweaver and photoshop, FCP and PS, DVDSP and PS, PS and AI and Indesign. My Wife has a 1.33 g4 15" while it is nice, it definately struggles with multiple programs especially PS and iPhoto or PS and Dreamweaver. While it is a great reliable machine that suits her needs, it is not fast enough or strong enough for me. I know there is no replacement for a desktop in processing power, but i just sold my 2x1.25 and it was sufficient for my needs, i was hoping they would release a PB with that kind of processing power. I think my high xbench was about 165 or so. So if i can get a PB with an xbench of 165 and it is portable i am pretty much sold. else i will just use one of my 3 work machines and let the money gain interest in the bank(10cents a month).

here are my wants.
FASTER Bus and a little faster proc
same bus and a lot faster proc
HD on the 15" (my buddies HP has been doing 1600x1200 for 2years)
100GB std
1GB RAM std (in 1 chip)
isight is icing, cool but not neccesary (retinal scanner would be tight!)
built in photographic organization like adobe bridge
optical - i dont care
FW400 and 800 (i still have FW400 devices i want to use)
Better antenas on airport, maybe a pringles can adapter
better screen quality, those Glassy looking PC screens are cool.
BLACK CASING
Finger print scanner
longer battery life, my dads portege 2000 used to get between 6-8hrs depending on cpu scaling. now it gets 2 heheh
if we dont get faster procs then atleast give us the NANO treatment.


peace out, checking in later after i goto press.

I would love to see the low-power dual core G4 in the PB but from all reports this chip is not expected to be in full production until 1st Qtr 2006.

simular things said about video ipod.

 

[Stella]

Java on Apple is slow compared to Windows. The sooner Intel PBs are released, the better for better Java performance.

Eclipse 3.1 on my PB isn't bad, but then its signficantly slower than running on Windows.

Sorry, it's the only one I had bookmarked. The Java vs. ____ (insert language here) ____ argument has been being fought for a decade now. Do a Google search and I'm sure you'll find multiple "winning" arguements on either side.

My point is that it's not Java that's slow - and maybe I misunderstood your complaint - but I do agree that some IDE's and other large app's can turn into memory and/or CPU hogs. Usually, I find it to be the fault of a plugin (at least in the case of Eclipse) that was poorly written or, more commonly, the fact that the application being worked on is huge and/or has bad design which the IDE is trying to index/understand.

For instance, Eclipse 3.1 on my G4 500 is relatively fast (for a 500Mhz G4), but as soon as I try to work on a big, bloated, out of control software project (no names given to protect my job!) it starts eating large chunks of memory. IntelliJ is even worse.

Native (non-Java) app's can suffer the same problem. i.e.: iPhoto with 4000+ images, iDVD '04

Java can be faster than C/C++ though, because the modern VM's can actually optimize the machine code on the fly - caching and re-optimizing heavily used code to be more efficient based on real time usage patterns, not just assuming what to optimze at compile time. (Objective-C may also provide similar capabilities as it relies on a runtime environment too, but I've not heard that it does)

Trying to bring this back on topic though, my bigest problem with Java on my Macs is that I have to run 10.4 in order to use JDK 1.5 - I wish Apple would speed up it's Java release cycles and stop forcing people to upgrade for no good reason. (I guess that was still off topic -- sorry! )

 

[oskar]

I don't like arriving late to a rumor because by then there have already been the typical discussions about Mac specs vs. others (mainly dell stuff), upcoming processor which will probably NOT be in the computer that's being talked about, and of course people who think waaay into the future (like expecting Intel before 2006). Well this is how it's been working for a while and I'm not complaining, just wish I arrived sooner.

I think Dual Dual Core will be awesome, but I hope they don't do what they did with the PCI and PCI-X difference. I got a current 2.0 Ghz PowerMac only to find out that the video capture card-options (for SD) I had considered before buying the PM didn't work with PCI, because of a firmware issue Apple hasn't been able to resolve. The cards DO work with Dual 2 Ghz PowerMacs with PCI which did not recieve the firmware update. I wonder if there'll be a similar issue if they go for PCI-E. Will they eliminate the PCI option altogether?

 

[Stella]

On Windows there is absolutely nothing wrong with the performance of Java, most of the time I can't tell whether I'm running a Java app or a native windows app.

Java on Apple has a lot to be desired...

Saying Java has poor performance is just an old wives tale....

IMHO something else is wrong with java in general.

I don't know if the codebase has reached it's 'bloat point of no return' or what, but java is slow on most platforms these days.

 

[0423379]

DDR2 is NOT an upgrade. At least not a substantial one. Sure it uses slightly less power, but even plain DDR is too fast for the G4 with the 167MHz bus. It will not provide any speed increase. Plus, AFAIK, DDR2 RAM upgrades cost more.

that's what I was wondering about too.... DDR2 starts at PC3200...
that means, 400mhz bus!
Well... if the new PB is gonna be 400FSB and still keep the same clock speeds... then in some cases they would lose performance. there are SOME apps that run better on high multiplier and low fsb vs. high fsb and low multiplier.
or if not, there won't be a difference... but as soon as you start cranking that multiplier... that's when the fun begins!
I remember when the AMD motherboards started running stable around 230-250. When they maxed out at 200FSB from the factory... a pally 1800+ would run neck to neck in those new mobos with a Athlon 3200+

but yeah... DDR2 doesn't make much sense if it's not a speed increase... Afterall, 1.7ghz isn't THAT much either... and I don't think the G4 architecture with 1.7ghz of CPU that the memory is the bottleneck. it would be like fitting an F1 car with a Ford Focus engine

 

[nagromme]

No one wants to talk about what a major embarrasement the powerbooks are.

I think (sorry, don't have a link) that Apple is switching to Intel CPUs, and that in the meantime they only have what Freescale gives them.

And yet, unless security, productivity, ease-of-use, and features OTHER than raw computing speed are meaningless to your needs, today's PowerBook is STILL the best laptop that has ever existed. It's the one that runs OS X. (For some people, Windows IS acceptable, and they have some great Pentium Ms to choose from.)

 

[Hattig]

Also about the rumored new monitor resolutions, 1920x1200 on a 17"?? Are they nuts? Am using 1920x1200 on my 23'' cinema and sometimes i really strain my eyes when i especially have to focus on small objects. The resolution is fine, just make them brighter!!

Hmm, I'm thinking: 10.4.3 will include a usable resolution independent display, similar to the one you can enable in Tiger with a bit of work

 

[igetbanned]

On Windows there is absolutely nothing wrong with the performance of Java, most of the time I can't tell whether I'm running a Java app or a native windows app.

Java on Apple has a lot to be desired...

Saying Java has poor performance is just an old wives tale....

The guy asked for MY opinion.

Now, if your experience is different, then that's YOUR opinion.

Java, is slow on windows, IMO.

See how that works?