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g5 laptop will be the next upgrade

g4 has got to 1.5 so naturally they will now release the g5 as the next upgrade as they would not want to bring out a processor that is smaller than this and a 1.6 was the basic speed in the power mac range so it makes sense for them to bring the speed of the g4 up to 1.5 allowing the g5 to be 1.6 making it look better from a marketing point of view. :cool: cant wait
 
Snowy_River said:
Whoops! Quoting the wrong specs!

Here's the proper numbers:

12" PowerBook - 9/1/03: 1 GHz Today: 1.33 GHz (+33%)
15" PowerBook - 9/1/03: 1 GHz Today: 1.33 GHz (+33%)
15" PowerBook - 9/1/03: 1.25 GHz Today: 1.5 GHz (+20%)
17" PowerBook - 9/1/03: 1.25 GHz Today: 1.5 GHz (+20%)

Not quite as dramatic as you'd indicated.


Actually, I am pretty sure the 1st specs were correct, yours aren't.

On September 1st, 2003 the line up was:

Rev A 12": 867 MHZ
Last TiBook 15": 1GHZ
Rev A 17": 1GHZ


On September 16th, the lineup became:

Rev B 12": 1GHZ
Rev A 15": 1GHZ or 1.25GHZ
Rev B 17": 1.33 GHZ


..incidently, I don't think the 17" was ever at 1.25GHZ. It went from 1GHZ, to 1.33GHZ, to its current 1.5GHZ.

So, with regards to the 17", for example, it DID go from its original 1GHZ speed on Sept 1st 2003 to its current 1.5GHZ.

If I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me!
 
sethypoo said:
The G4 is a perfectly reasonable processor for the PowerBook and iBook lines. Want power? Get a G5 tower. Want power and portability, get a 1.5 Ghz 15" PowerBook G4.
I agree that the G4 is a perfectly reasonable processor. It's just a shame that Apple has not been able to get the G5, which is much, much more than just a reasonable processor, into laptops sooner. We can only hope for the best. Though I'm sure that when Powerbook G5s do come out, they will be very impressive.
 
sethypoo said:
The G4 is a perfectly reasonable processor for the PowerBook and iBook lines. Want power? Get a G5 tower. Want power and portability, get a 1.5 Ghz 15" PowerBook G4. If that's not enough, learn patience.

Actually I think in reality if it's not enough, then people will just buy a PC notebook. That's the danger for Apple. Outside a dedicated core of fanatic users, people aren't going to say "I need a really fast portable now, but Apple won't have the G5 PowerBook ready until next year. OK, no problem, I'll just sit on my hands and wait for Steve-o". There's no need for patience. Users will just switch...back to x86.

I do see where you're coming from...yes, a 1.5GHz G4 will offer many portable users all the power they need. Hell, my 1GHz 12" PowerBook does everything I need it to do with ease (except for games), because I *personally* only use my PowerBook for relatively light duty tasks. But as so many have pointed out, there are a not-insignificant number of portable users who will be able to suck up every last computing cycle available to them, and then need more. Apple gives us access to some of the best creative software on the market, and a lot of it is CPU-hungry. People want to be able to take their PowerBook into the studio, onto the set, out to their client's office...and run hungry applications like video editing and video effects rendering at desktop speeds. This isn't unreasonable. You can already buy full 64-bit AMD Athlon64 notebooks from x86 vendors, which while not being as slick in appearance as a PowerBook, are stilll highly portable, and which will leave a 1.5GHz G4 for dead.

Just saying "stop complaining, get a tower" isn't an answer. Users in the x86 aren't forced to make this desktop/notebook performance tradeoff to anywhere near the same degree as Mac users do. The G4 is a suitable chip for the iBook...it's a consumer line, and of course a G4 is often more than adequate for 'consumer-level' needs. But the PowerBook is pitched (and priced) as a professional-level machine. It's pitched at people who earn their living from their notebooks, not just people who like the look of aluminium over white plastic. There once was a time when 'PowerBook' meant a portable with nearly all the performance of a desktop. Now it doesn't, and that's what causes people to get hot under the collar on these forums. And what causes people to get even *hotter* under the collar is the suggestion that "they don't need" or "can't handle" the power of a G5 in a portable.

The Mac community would have to be the only tech community I've ever taken part in where its members seem to spend an equal amount of time telling each other they don't need any kind of improved technology, as they do discussing the technology itself.
 
stockscalper said:
Not contradicting myself; the power drain at 1.4 ghz is around 12 watts, which compares favorably to the G4 at 22 or 23 watts. However, when you crank it up to 1.8 ghz it jumps considerably, plus the heat really pumps up at that speed. Because of those issues, it's not practical for them to use the G5 at speeds faster than 1.4 to 1.6 at this time.
So Apple needs to get them puppies into the PB pronto, who's going to buy a 1.4GHz G5 when the PB G4 is at 1.5. I think we'll see maybe a 1.6GHz G5 debut in the PB sooner rather than later. Just enough to come in ahead speed-wise and the FSB will be throttled back to reduce heat issues.
 
Snowy_River said:
Well, yes, I happen to be one of them. This is why I want a G5 PB. I routinely run things on my computer that are in the category of Start the operation and go and have lunch. Sometimes it's even done by the time I get back. And, yes, I need to have portability. With a little luck, maybe I'll be able to afford to have two computers at some point, and then I'll have both my PB and a top-of-the-line G5 tower (dual 3.5GHz... drool...). Until then, though, I will continue to use what I have...
Much the same here as far as using what I already have.

Frankly my issue with the new releases is that performance is important and Apple is in a pickle agian. Not for desktop machines this time but for the portable segment in which it use to lead.

My frustration is not so much with you as it is with the people that are going on about how great the new revs are. Its far more of a mixed bag if you ask me. Apple is capable of delivering nice hardware at the top of its line, unfortunately it doesn't compete with the top of the line in the Intel world. I just think it is foolish for people to judge Apple's progress agianst Apples own hardware. Even at that I can't see how anybody could stand up and say the new iBook is an improvement in value.
Unless the G5-M (ugh, what an awful name - how about G5-P, as in portable? No I still don't like it...) is nearing completion (i.e. will be ready for the next PB update), I think that this would be an incredibly foolish move on Apple's part. I, for one, have more faith in Apple than that...
It is my suspicion right now that Apple will have to look at alternatives to the G5 in its current implementation in order to produce portables with 64 bit technology. Now that could be a minor tweak with a built in memory controller of something more involved. I just see them having a hard time scaling performance and at the same time producing a portable that is acceptable to its customers.

Customers are the key here. You will not have people adopting the G5 in a portable simply because it is a G5 (baring the few that hang out here that will). That portable still has to retain a form factor acceptable to Apples customers along with good battery life and every thing else that makes a PowerBook a PowerBook.

Everything that I've stated is based on what is known today. It is obvious that Apple is working on low cost low power chips to facilitate the use of the 970 else where. Maybe the PowerBook is one of those targets. Lately though I've been of the opinion that Apple has somethng else it is working on to fill the PowerBook processor role. At this point it will be several months before we have a clear indication of what Apple is doing.

Thanks
Dave

 
James L said:
Actually, I am pretty sure the 1st specs were correct, yours aren't.

On September 1st, 2003 the line up was:

Rev A 12": 867 MHZ
Last TiBook 15": 1GHZ
Rev A 17": 1GHZ


On September 16th, the lineup became:

Rev B 12": 1GHZ
Rev A 15": 1GHZ or 1.25GHZ
Rev B 17": 1.33 GHZ


..incidently, I don't think the 17" was ever at 1.25GHZ. It went from 1GHZ, to 1.33GHZ, to its current 1.5GHZ.

So, with regards to the 17", for example, it DID go from its original 1GHZ speed on Sept 1st 2003 to its current 1.5GHZ.

If I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me!

Yes, I realized this after I submitted the correction. I was merely trying to correct for the September update, to put things in the proper perspective. If he was going to quote numbers from just before one upgrade, he shouldn't compare them to numbers just after another update. Hey, we could look at it this way:

12" One Week Ago: 1GHz 12" Today: 1.33GHz (33% Speed boost in one week!!)
etc. ...
 
andiwm2003 said:
how much faster is a single 1.6 G5 over the 1.5 PB?

how much for a photoshop filter?
how much for rotating an image in photoshop?
how much to scroll a powerpoint presentation (many pics)?
how much for recalculating a soundfile?

my guess it's 10%-20%. so as a nonprofessional user would you notice the difference?
has anybody some experience with a 1.6 G5 and a 1.25 PB (since the 1.5 isn't out long enough)?
I think the point is more that Apple will be tuning their os and apps to take advantage of the G5 chip. Right now we are seeing good performance increments just be upgrading to Panther, in future we will see Apple tuning OSX for the G5. The G4's will be supported but fewer performance improvements in software will be apparent on G4 machines.
 
Apple's Celeron

Old processor technology, slow bus, slow hard drive, mediocre display, all crammed into an expensive slim case. Like winintel celeron, G4 laptops will be with us for a long time. As long as the masses keep repeating the manta, "too hot, cooling problems, too much power drain, too hard, can't be done" there is no incentive for Apple to drop its celeron and build a G5 laptop that serious users can expect to be a viable platform for the next five years. I'm not buying a G4 laptop, I have a Dual G4 Desktop, why drop $2+K for a giant leap backward.
 
Dippo said:
If you take a comparable Pc laptop processor say the Pentium Mobile, they max out at 1.7Ghz. So the 1.5Ghz G4 certianly isn't slow.

i see how it works now. when it doesn't bolster your case, you do _not_ use mhz directly to compare processors. now that it seems (to you) that it does bolster your case, you _do_ use a direct mhz for mhz comparison.

we all understood what you meant. 1.5Ghz isn't so different a number from 1.7Ghz.

except that you would be dead wrong.

a 1.5Ghz g4 based powerbook CANNOT catch a 1.3Ghz Pentium M.

It's not even close, and the 1.3 Pentium-M w/1meg cache is now going into sub $900 pc notebooks.

I'm about to get myself a new powerbook. They look fantastic and I appreciate Apple for providing such a nice alternative to windows. But it annoys me to no end when people can't deal with reality. I'm not getting a new powerbooks because it's "almost as fast as a centrino based notebook"

it's not. not even close.

i'm buying my powerbook for entirely different reasons, the reasons being discussed to death ad nauseum within these forums.

to the other fellow proclaiming that hardly anyone should need a G5 powerbook, I honestly don't know what to tell you. i'm tempted to flame you, but i'll just say this:

apple's market is shrinking. in order to survive, this first needs to slow, stop and then reverse.

we're not even on step one. personally, i want apple around in 10 years....and they will be, but this horse crap you are spouting about "no one needs a g5 powerbook" is exactly the narrow mindset that has cost apple dearly.

they've finally realized (almost too late) that they were headed for BIG trouble if they didn't start ratcheting up the speed. and pronto.

The G5 Powermac has stopped the bleeding, but we're still not in the black.

the rest of their line needs ratcheting.

faster then asap.
 
oingoboingo said:
Actually I think in reality if it's not enough, then people will just buy a PC notebook. That's the danger for Apple. Outside a dedicated core of fanatic users, people aren't going to say "I need a really fast portable now, but Apple won't have the G5 PowerBook ready until next year. OK, no problem, I'll just sit on my hands and wait for Steve-o". There's no need for patience. Users will just switch...back to x86.

First off, my complements on an excellent post. Second, I am one of those people who, not necessarily wanting to move to WinTel, is feeling somewhat pressured to by the reality of Apple's hardware offerings. I NEED a portable. I also NEED to run image analysis and editing apps. I sometimes churn through monster stacks of images with a Java app. called ImageJ, which looks virtually identical on the Mac and the PC. Heck, for that, I could run Linux on a PC laptop, I don't even need Windows (I would probably opt for that, actually). Anyway, the fact of the matter is, for that kind of work, PM-equipped laptops are opertating, today, at roughly double the speed of very comparably-priced Apple laptops. I know this because I have seen it with my own eyes. I have processed the same stack of images using ImageJ 1.31 on a 1.25GHz G4 15" Al Powerbook (Price $2300/Combo drive) with a gig of RAM, and a 1.4GHz IBM Thinkpad T41 (Price $1900/CDRW/DVD-ROM)...fairly comparable computers interms EXCEPT the processor. The difference spoke for itself. That extra 175MHz in speed on the PM translates, in my hands, to over double the speed of the G4 Powerbook...roughly two minutes and ten seconds for the G4 to process the stack vs. about one 50 seconds for the PM. Talk about megahertz myth. The G4 has 512k L2 cache, and runs off a 167MHz bus. The PM has a 1 meg L2 cache, and runs off a 400MHz bus. The effect these differences have speak for themselves. After borrowing to computers to run this very real-world benchmark, I spent a bood portion of the afternoon feeling depressed. I love my Mac Portable. It's built like a truck, is SO damn easy to use, I love the interface, I can't say enough nice, warm, fuzzy things about it.

But sometimes warm fuzzies don't cut it. I need to get work done. Work that can really chew through serious hardware resources. I've seen it with my own eyes: The Thinkpad is the practical champ, hands down. For things I NEED to do, at my job, it mops the floor with the G4. The extra boost to 1.5 GHz isn't going to close the gap all that much. So why bother?And when I compare the Thinkpad with my own Ti667, well...I don't even want to talk about that, the disparity is so horrific.

So, I'm rapidly approaching the point where watching the spinning beachball is eating up significant chunks of my time on the Ti667. If I wasn't such a Mac whore I would have ditched the thing last year. I don't even need Apple to beat WinTel. I'd be happy with near-parity. I'd just like to see that stack transform and spit out data on my Mac Laptop the way it did on my colleagues Stinkpad. When will that happen? If "never" is the answer, I can't stay on the Mac, no matter how much I love it. It's simply not a viable portable option. I'm stretching my patience to the limit just waiting until x-mas on the probably vain hope that there are radically new portable chip offerings in the works. If there are not, my hand is pretty much forced. :(
 
There are more factors in an Apple notebook then just the CPU people, you sound like a bunch of PC overclocking / hardware swapping freaks.

Think - OS X
Think - UNIX
Think - iLife
Think - NO Viruses
Think - NO Spyware
Think - Form Factor

Remember why you chose Apple, and stop being a PC hardware clone. If Mhz matter that much to you or if a G4 1.5Ghz machine just "CANT" do what you need it to do (yeah right), then get a Dual G5 Powermac for that work, or you can just go get yourself a PC and deal with losing all of the above.

Now I would love for someone to actually show/tell me exactly what that G4 1.5Ghz machine WILL NOT do for them that ONLY a G5 would?

Im waiting...
 
chasingapple said:
There are more factors in an Apple notebook then just the CPU people, you sound like a bunch of PC overclocking / hardware swapping freaks.

Think - OS X
Think - UNIX
Think - iLife
Think - NO Viruses
Think - NO Spyware
Think - Form Factor

Remember why you chose Apple, and stop being a PC hardware clone. If Mhz matter that much to you or if a G4 1.5Ghz machine just "CANT" do what you need it to do (yeah right), then get a Dual G5 Powermac for that work, or you can just go get yourself a PC and deal with losing all of the above.

Now I would love for someone to actually show/tell me exactly what that G4 1.5Ghz machine WILL NOT do for them that ONLY a G5 would?

Im waiting...

Stop trolling and read some of the messages above. Especially oingoboingos posts is very good. the fastest powerbook is a lot slower than a decent intel-laptop. Do you not understand that this is a problem for apple?
 
G5 Powerbook power consumption analysis

It seems like there is a whole lot of misinformation going around about what is preventing G5s from being in the PBs now, so I thought I'd weigh in with my opinion.

I would assume that the primary factors in the design of the G5 Powerbooks would be:
- Same or at worst slightly higher power consumption.
- Higher clock speed than the current PBs, by at least 100 MHz across the range. (1.3->1.4, 1.5->1.6 GHz)

The battery life is a primary selling factor, and the higher clock speed is necessary for sales purposes. While the G5 has roughly the same performance as the G4 clock-for-clock, the subsystems are much improved, so I personally would buy the G5 over the G4 anyway.

Ace's Hardware posted a link to the power consumption of the new 970FXs, the new G5s (low power) in the Xserve. Power consumption at 2.0 GHz was 39W, at 1.2: 12W, and at 2.5: 55W. From this we can calculate that the G5s would use approx. 18W at 1.4 and 25W at 1.6 GHz. The current power consumption of the mobile G4s I believe is approx 15W for the 1.33 and 23W for the 1.5 GHz, from data from the Motorola's last G4 announcement. (This means that the G5s are NOT much hotter than G4s at comparable clock speeds, as some people are saying.)

We have a gain of 2-3W for this scenario, which is not too bad. If we jump 200 MHz instead, this increases to a gap of 5-7W, which is getting a little uncomfortable. However, once the 970FX production has increased, IBM can probably handpick processors which can run at a lower voltage (particularly at these lower clock speeds), which will probably lower the power consumption enough to go with the 200 MHz increase.

So, we can get the G5 processor into a Powerbook without affecting power consumption. The problem arises from the subsytems. In a desktop G5, we can have the processor consuming 50W without a problem, and the support logic (all the motherboard chips) probably use somewhere between 10-20W. However, if we just dumped this into the laptop, we'd have a processor+motherboard that used 30-40W. This is a problem.

The support logic needs to be redesigned for low power. A small part of this has probably already been done for the G5 Xserves, but there's probably more work there. One thing that would help, as others have mentioned, is moving the memory controller on die (ala Opteron/Athlon64). This would require a new CPU revision.

Beyond these considerations, I would presume that new Powerbooks would come with the full modern trappings of the G5. This would include SATA drives, of which the 2.5" variety are not yet widely available. No other notebooks have SATA drives.

It would be fair to say that we can expect Powerbook G5s in the normal timeframe, probably 8-10 months from now.


References:
Portable G4 power consumption: http://arstechnica.com/news/posts/1077600172.html
Power Consumption of new G5 (970FX): http://www.aceshardware.com/read_news.jsp?id=80000467
IBM document info: http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=115063089
 
aavatsma said:
Stop trolling and read some of the messages above. Especially oingoboingos posts is very good. the fastest powerbook is a lot slower than a decent intel-laptop. Do you not understand that this is a problem for apple?

Trolling, LOL. Ok, then go get an Intel notebook and lube up for Bill. Next time answer my question, I have read the entire thread.
 
IBM PowerPC 970FX versus Motorola MPC7447A power usage

Ok, there's been plenty of discussion over perceived heat and power consumption issues with the G5 CPUs, especially with regards to their use in future PowerBooks, and how they compare to the 'cooler' G4s currently in use. I was interested in the actual power consumptions as specified by IBM and Motorola, respective manufacturers of the new PowerPC 970FX (aka: G5) and the PowerPC MPC7447A (aka: G4) CPUs. The information I found is available at:

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sp...evice=MPC7447A&DocTypeKey=10KsdK42&Results=25

and

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54

From these publications, the voltage and power consumptions are:

- Motorola MPC7447A (G4) (133/166MHz FSB, 512KB L2 cache) power consumption at 1.42GHz: 19W (1.3V internal voltage, 1.8V/2.5V I/O voltage)
- IBM PowerPC 970FX (G5) (1.0GHz FSB, 512KB L2 cache) power consumption at 2.0GHz: 24.5W (1.0V internal voltage, 1.3V I/O voltage)

In addition, the PPC970FX is reported by IBM to require a power draw of only 12.3W when running at 1.4GHz. IBM specifies that the 970FX also uses the same physical chip interface as the 970 currently used in shipping PowerMac G5s (576-pin CBGA in a 25mm x 25mm layout).

For comparison, the older 1.33GHz MPC7447 G4s used in earlier PowerBooks are reported to consume 21.3W, barely less than that reported for the 2.0GHz PowerPC 970FX.

From these manufacturer quoted figures, it appears that the new PowerPC 970FX chip, should not consume significantly more power, or produce significantly more heat, than the G4 CPUs already in use across Apple's iBook and PowerBook range. It also appears that the 2.0GHz PowerPC 970FX, when running at a throttled back 1.4GHz, requires a power draw of only 12.3W...which again is only marginally more than is required by the low-power version of Motorola's MPC7447A when running at 1.167GHz (9.3W).

Hopefully these figures will be useful in future debates over the design and implementation of future PowerBook G5 systems, especially in relation to cooling and power consumption issues (which seem to be generating quite a bit of emotional heat in themselves :) )
 
oingoboingo said:
Ok, there's been plenty of discussion over perceived heat and power consumption issues with the G5 CPUs, especially with regards to their use in future PowerBooks, and how they compare to the 'cooler' G4s currently in use. I was interested in the actual power consumptions as specified by IBM and Motorola, respective manufacturers of the new PowerPC 970FX (aka: G5) and the PowerPC MPC7447A (aka: G4) CPUs. The information I found is available at:

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sp...evice=MPC7447A&DocTypeKey=10KsdK42&Results=25

and

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54

From these publications, the voltage and power consumptions are:

- Motorola MPC7447A (G4) (133/166MHz FSB, 512KB L2 cache) power consumption at 1.42GHz: 19W (1.3V internal voltage, 1.8V/2.5V I/O voltage)
- IBM PowerPC 970FX (G5) (1.0GHz FSB, 512KB L2 cache) power consumption at 2.0GHz: 24.5W (1.0V internal voltage, 1.3V I/O voltage)

In addition, the PPC970FX is reported by IBM to require a power draw of only 12.3W when running at 1.4GHz. IBM specifies that the 970FX also uses the same physical chip interface as the 970 currently used in shipping PowerMac G5s (576-pin CBGA in a 25mm x 25mm layout).

For comparison, the older 1.33GHz MPC7447 G4s used in earlier PowerBooks are reported to consume 21.3W, barely less than that reported for the 2.0GHz PowerPC 970FX.

From these manufacturer quoted figures, it appears that the new PowerPC 970FX chip, should not consume significantly more power, or produce significantly more heat, than the G4 CPUs already in use across Apple's iBook and PowerBook range. It also appears that the 2.0GHz PowerPC 970FX, when running at a throttled back 1.4GHz, requires a power draw of only 12.3W...which again is only marginally more than is required by the low-power version of Motorola's MPC7447A when running at 1.167GHz (9.3W).

Hopefully these figures will be useful in future debates over the design and implementation of future PowerBook G5 systems, especially in relation to cooling and power consumption issues (which seem to be generating quite a bit of emotional heat in themselves :) )

Finally something constructive posted. Not another whiny kid bitching cause he didnt get his way with this revision, bravo!

Perhaps there is more to it other then heat, from what I have read it would seem there are not enough of these G5's to satisfy the PowerMac, xServe, and a PowerBook line at this time?
 
Zaty said:
Well, the thing is that the 12" and the 17" were announced in Jan 03, the 15" even back in Nov 02" So the span you mention is in fact 15 1/2 months for the 12" and the 17" and 17 1/2 months for the 15". But still, that's not a bad progress.


but remember the bump in Nov 03 that brought the 12" to 1 GHz, the 15" to 1.25 GHz and the 17" to 1.33 GHz?

edit: oops i put the wrong date! It should be Sept 03. Now I see others have posted this..... sorry. :D
 
Would that be the T series 1.7GHZ (T41)? I've also issued those and can't say I have the same experience. They run very hot if you actually try to push them. When I run heavy processor intensive stuff it gets much hotter than my iBook does running the same kind of stuff. They also are expensive.
$2900 for the laptop with a 14" screen, 512MB, Combo drive. It has a fast spin HDD, but even so - I still see the Powerbook as very competitive with it. It can have a larger screen, is more durable, runs cooler (and I've tested this out). I like IBM laptops (they are the only PC laptop I will buy for clients), but they still run XP and can run hot - and are very expensive.

The biggest problem doesn't lie with Apple anyways. It is going to take time for IBM chips to circulate through their entire lineups. I still have hope they will use some of IBM's other offerings, but I'm not sure what their status is with Moto - or if Moto will do anything when they're rumored to move to 90nm sometime this summer. If the G4 had a faster FSB with true DDR support coupled with 1MB+ L2 cache it would be competitive with Intel's mobile offerings.

The fact of the matter for now is that Apple has light, small laptops. If you want PC laptops that are as portable you'll have to pay the price you would for an Apple - most likely more. If Apple dropped anything into large, cheap plastic enclosures they could cut their prices way down. Problem is that they can't have dozens upon dozens of configs. They decided to make all of their laptops overly portable - and the increase in cost is part of that.

SiliconAddict said:
Bull. We have 1.7Ghz IBM Pentium M laptops here in the office I work at that are 1" thick with a 400Mhz FSB. This thing runs DAMN cool. Does the fan turn on from time to time? Sure. In fact right now I'm doing a stress test on a laptop before I deploy it to the user. The fan is on but short of sticking ear 3" from the vent I can't hear it and the heat? Maybe 90*-95*, if that, coming out of the vent. Frankly I'm NOT impressed by Apple *books that have fans that almost NEVER turn on. A couple friends of mine have iBooks and the base of these things get bloody hot. Enough that I'm concerned for the long term reliability of these systems. (e.g. super hot systems = better chance of hardware failure.) Oh and as for battery life on that laptop I speced out above the system get aprox 4-5 hours depending on what you are doing with the system.
 
wizard said:
Have you every noticed how the people that complain about dick measuring are the ones not to measure up!

Its a shame that people only see the world form their frame of reference. The I"I never do anthing challenging so why would anyone else" mentality. These are probally the same people that go hiking in the moutains with a rope but never use that rope to climb the mountain.

There are many professions that can and will make use of all the computing resources they have available to them. Just because one can't not imagine this does not mean that it is not the case.

As to a 970 based portable it is very apparent that the 970FX is not ready to go into a portable and may never be ready. Sure this upsets people that would love to have a PowerBook with modern performance capabilities. It does need to be kept in perspective Apple will have faster machines in the future, how those machine come to market is a mystery. We could see dual processors or a special purpose chipset or a truely improved G4. That is the future, in the present many people are justified in their frustration with Apple.

Thanks
dave


I think the point on all of this is: If you need the CPU power, buy it. Don't bitch and whine that you can't get the power of 10 dual Opteron blades in a laptop for $19.99 that weighs 4 lbs and runs 10 hrs on a single charge and can render, in real-time, the next epsiode of Star Wars.

If you really needed all that speed, you can have it. Its just going to cost you money. Go spend it...please!

Tell me, what did people ever do with themselves 5 years ago without teraflops on the desktop?? Oh my gawd, its like, the land before time! :rolleyes:
 
chasingapple said:
There are more factors in an Apple notebook then just the CPU people, you sound like a bunch of PC overclocking / hardware swapping freaks.

Think - OS X
Think - UNIX
Think - iLife
Think - NO Viruses
Think - NO Spyware
Think - Form Factor

Remember why you chose Apple, and stop being a PC hardware clone. If Mhz matter that much to you or if a G4 1.5Ghz machine just "CANT" do what you need it to do (yeah right), then get a Dual G5 Powermac for that work, or you can just go get yourself a PC and deal with losing all of the above.

Now I would love for someone to actually show/tell me exactly what that G4 1.5Ghz machine WILL NOT do for them that ONLY a G5 would?

Im waiting...

There's an example in this thread...using the Java ImageJ application to perform image processing on a large stack of images (I've actually used this app too). Image analysis is slow and CPU/RAM intensive, and it's something that often gets done 'in the field' (medical images in a clinic, geographical images on site or in a portable office, or moving around the lab analysing 2D electrophoresis images (where my personal experience in this area comes from)). Yes, a 1.5GHz G4 will get the job done. Of course it's not actually physically incapable of running the code. It's just that a 2GHz G5 PowerBook would get it done quite a bit faster. Who wants to wait 5 minutes for a job to finish when they can wait 4 minutes? Or 3? When you repeat that operation a number of times throughout the day, the total time savings could be several hours per week. A 1.5GHz G4 might be fast enough for some...but for others it's not, and it's a difference of hundreds or even thousands of hours of saved time over the lifetime of the notebook.

For office use, web browsing, e-mail and many other tasks...yes...the G4 chips are great. I have a 1GHz 12" PowerBook and it handles those tasks without breaking a sweat...and yes, all of those reasons you mentioned above are excellent reasons for choosing an Apple system in the first place, no doubt. But there are always going to be users who require CPUs which are faster, and they're not going to want to have to be tied to a desk, or to be burning their work onto CDs or DVDs every time they want to take something home from the office to work on. Any time you're waiting for the computer, the computer isn't fast enough. Period.

It is completely valid for pro-portable users to want something faster than a 1.5GHz G4. Scientific and technical computing is just one example where PowerBook G5s will be graciously received (as I mentioned, it's an area where I have personal experience).
 
Let me say this: Apple didn't say that it wouldn't offer the PowerBook G5. It merely said that, on the day the new PowerBook G4 was introduced, people shouldn't expect the PowerBook G5 soon. That's all.

I am not an Apple apologist. I even agree with many of you that Pentium-M is a very nice chip. However, too many of you sounds too depressed, almost suicidal! LIGHTEN UP!
 
oingoboingo said:
There's an example in this thread...using the Java ImageJ application to perform image processing on a large stack of images (I've actually used this app too). Image analysis is slow and CPU/RAM intensive, and it's something that often gets done 'in the field' (medical images in a clinic, geographical images on site or in a portable office, or moving around the lab analysing 2D electrophoresis images (where my personal experience in this area comes from)). Yes, a 1.5GHz G4 will get the job done. Of course it's not actually physically incapable of running the code. It's just that a 2GHz G5 PowerBook would get it done quite a bit faster. Who wants to wait 5 minutes for a job to finish when they can wait 4 minutes? Or 3? When you repeat that operation a number of times throughout the day, the total time savings could be several hours per week. A 1.5GHz G4 might be fast enough for some...but for others it's not, and it's a difference of hundreds or even thousands of hours of saved time over the lifetime of the notebook.

For office use, web browsing, e-mail and many other tasks...yes...the G4 chips are great. I have a 1GHz 12" PowerBook and it handles those tasks without breaking a sweat...and yes, all of those reasons you mentioned above are excellent reasons for choosing an Apple system in the first place, no doubt. But there are always going to be users who require CPUs which are faster, and they're not going to want to have to be tied to a desk, or to be burning their work onto CDs or DVDs every time they want to take something home from the office to work on. Any time you're waiting for the computer, the computer isn't fast enough. Period.

It is completely valid for pro-portable users to want something faster than a 1.5GHz G4. Scientific and technical computing is just one example where PowerBook G5s will be graciously received (as I mentioned, it's an area where I have personal experience).

If it is that important to shave a few minutes then would it not better suit you to get a Pentium-M based notebook for that job then? Honestly it is just a few minutes, and ThinkSecret reported that a new software SEED is heading out that improves Java, sounds like your Java problem is software related, not hardware.

Think of it this way, a computer is a TOOL, as anyone that deals with Cars or Hardware knows, there is no ONE tool for EVERY job, we all wish there was but it is not so. Sounds to me like IN YOUR CASE you are not using the right tool at this time for the job your doing, so go get the right tool. Perhaps in the future the MAC will be that tool but you need UBER speed for 1 app, get the right tool my friend :)

Matter of fact, I will help you a little. I spotted this a few days ago and for the hardware it has it is one hell of a deal in computers.

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/notebooks/product.cfm?ProductType=3760

Not to mention it is a very sexy notebook, perhaps that would be better for your situation?

Cheers.
 
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