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Josh_m and oingoboing: Thanks for the informative posts.

Which leads to one underlying question: Do you think Apple could put a G5 in a laptop similar to their current offerings today or are they deliberately NOT doing so for other reasons? (Explain the "other reasons" if possible.)

You may begin...

;)


Squire
 
chasingapple said:
If it is that important to shave a few minutes then would it not better suit you to get a Pentium-M based notebook for that job then? Honestly it is just a few minutes, and ThinkSecret reported that a new software SEED is heading out that improves Java, sounds like your Java problem is software related, not hardware.

I guess that was my original point a few posts back...if there are long delays for existing Mac users in getting G5 PowerBooks out, then heavy users who can switch to x86 will probably do that.

Think of it this way, a computer is a TOOL, as anyone that deals with Cars or Hardware knows, there is no ONE tool for EVERY job, we all wish there was but it is not so. Sounds to me like IN YOUR CASE you are not using the right tool at this time for the job your doing, so go get the right tool. Perhaps in the future the MAC will be that tool but you need UBER speed for 1 app, get the right tool my friend :)

You were originally asking for an example of what could possibly not be suitable for a 1.5GHz G4, and I provided one. So we both agree...the 1.5GHz G4 PowerBook isn't the right tool. A G5 PowerBook might well be though. I think we're all right back to where we started now :)

For the record, most of our image analysis is actually done with software written in C/C++, not Java. A computationally intensive task is a computationally intensive task, no matter what the language.
 
Squire said:
Josh_m and oingoboing: Thanks for the informative posts.

Which leads to one underlying question: Do you think Apple could put a G5 in a laptop similar to their current offerings today or are they deliberately NOT doing so for other reasons? (Explain the "other reasons" if possible.)

You may begin...

;)
Squire

Apple mentioned in its most recent financial results conference call that supplies of the cooler-running PowerPC 970FX from IBM are still very restricted. It was explicity mentioned as being the reason for XServe G5 delays. So between needing to fulfill backordered XServe G5 requests, and needing to advance the desktop PowerMac G5 line, I suspect PPC970FX chips are in high demand at the moment. PowerBooks may simply be further down the priority list here.

As Josh_m mentioned (I think it was him), the CPU is just one factor in the heat/power equation. The system controller will also generate a decent amount of heat. I don't know the exact figures (since it's an Apple proprietary design), but perhaps there may need to be some redesigning done there too.

Crossing over more into marketing, maybe Apple thinks it is time to refresh the physical appearance of the PowerBook line. Maybe they are busily working on a new form factor simply to keep the range looking fresh and new? Apple seems to like deliberately paced 6-9 month product cycles...maybe its partly to do with their internal product cycle? I'm sure there are reasons other than technical ones afoot.
 
im starting to waiver on the idea of getting a mac, is it worth it to drop 2.5k on a 3-4 year old chip, probably the most advanced usage on this thing will be adobe photoshop and occasional UT2k4, if i were to have 1.5 gigs of ram...how well would it perform. i know that you cant compare desktops to notebooks but right now my 3.0ghz HT P4 is the only referance point i have. will a 1.5ghz PB be able to keep up with large amounts of rendering etc. or should i wait a year or 2 for the G5 and just go with a centrino. i love the idea of getting this PB but i need reasurance

[edit]P.S. i know this isnt the buyers guide thread but its too hard to get a response in there
 
Spazmodius said:
First off, my complements on an excellent post. Second, I am one of those people who, not necessarily wanting to move to WinTel, is feeling somewhat pressured to by the reality of Apple's hardware offerings. I NEED a portable. I also NEED to run image analysis and editing apps. I sometimes churn through monster stacks of images with a Java app. called ImageJ, which looks virtually identical on the Mac and the PC. Heck, for that, I could run Linux on a PC laptop, I don't even need Windows (I would probably opt for that, actually). Anyway, the fact of the matter is, for that kind of work, PM-equipped laptops are opertating, today, at roughly double the speed of very comparably-priced Apple laptops. I know this because I have seen it with my own eyes. I have processed the same stack of images using ImageJ 1.31 on a 1.25GHz G4 15" Al Powerbook (Price $2300/Combo drive) with a gig of RAM, and a 1.4GHz IBM Thinkpad T41 (Price $1900/CDRW/DVD-ROM)...fairly comparable computers interms EXCEPT the processor. The difference spoke for itself. That extra 175MHz in speed on the PM translates, in my hands, to over double the speed of the G4 Powerbook...roughly two minutes and ten seconds for the G4 to process the stack vs. about one 50 seconds for the PM. Talk about megahertz myth. The G4 has 512k L2 cache, and runs off a 167MHz bus. The PM has a 1 meg L2 cache, and runs off a 400MHz bus. The effect these differences have speak for themselves. After borrowing to computers to run this very real-world benchmark, I spent a bood portion of the afternoon feeling depressed. I love my Mac Portable. It's built like a truck, is SO damn easy to use, I love the interface, I can't say enough nice, warm, fuzzy things about it.

But sometimes warm fuzzies don't cut it. I need to get work done. Work that can really chew through serious hardware resources. I've seen it with my own eyes: The Thinkpad is the practical champ, hands down. For things I NEED to do, at my job, it mops the floor with the G4. The extra boost to 1.5 GHz isn't going to close the gap all that much. So why bother?And when I compare the Thinkpad with my own Ti667, well...I don't even want to talk about that, the disparity is so horrific.

So, I'm rapidly approaching the point where watching the spinning beachball is eating up significant chunks of my time on the Ti667. If I wasn't such a Mac whore I would have ditched the thing last year. I don't even need Apple to beat WinTel. I'd be happy with near-parity. I'd just like to see that stack transform and spit out data on my Mac Laptop the way it did on my colleagues Stinkpad. When will that happen? If "never" is the answer, I can't stay on the Mac, no matter how much I love it. It's simply not a viable portable option. I'm stretching my patience to the limit just waiting until x-mas on the probably vain hope that there are radically new portable chip offerings in the works. If there are not, my hand is pretty much forced. :(

I think what you have here is an application problem. All Java VMs are not created equal... For a fair comparison, you'd have to turn off JIT and use Sun's Hot Spot VM for a fair Java-to-Java comparison... I don't doubt that the freaking amazing (I'm not kidding) instruction decoders and schedulers in the current crop of x86 cpus make a huge impact on the performance of "average" JIT compiled code, versus a traditional VM. The massive L2 doesn't hurt either... :D I just think that Java is a poor language for intensive computational tasks...and I'm a Java developer! Its just not its core competency...
 
El Duderino said:
im starting to waiver on the idea of getting a mac, is it worth it to drop 2.5k on a 3-4 year old chip, probably the most advanced usage on this thing will be adobe photoshop and occasional UT2k4, if i were to have 1.5 gigs of ram...how well would it perform. i know that you cant compare desktops to notebooks but right now my 3.0ghz HT P4 is the only referance point i have. will a 1.5ghz PB be able to keep up with large amounts of rendering etc. or should i wait a year or 2 for the G5 and just go with a centrino. i love the idea of getting this PB but i need reasurance

[edit]P.S. i know this isnt the buyers guide thread but its too hard to get a response in there

Photoshop tends to run pretty well, even on G4s, due to the Altivec enhancement. If all you're doing is that and Unreal Tournament, it would meet your needs. It wouldn't be as speeded as the P4 - though I would say it would crash less than the Centrino or the P4 - or require a reboot less often. Windows tends to clog up over time, whereas OSX, in my experience, does not. That could save you time, depending on your experience with Windows. I spend about five-six hours a week working on Macs for any technical issues or setup vs. over 30 hours for the PCs - and they account for only 11% of the systems I've installed or setup.

Also, don't take benchmarks very seriously. It's difficult to compare across platforms - especially when most benchmarks are not well optimized for Macs (any AfterEffects comparison is bogus, for instance, because Adobe hasn't optimized it properly for the Mac).

So, I can't give you a proper recommendation. If you often experience a PC crashing when trying to do renders, etc then the Mac could save you time because they generally don't crash (I've run on OS X for nearly two years and it has not crashed a single time - and I've attempted to get it to crash. I keep my computer on at all times, letting it sleep when I don't use it. The only restarts I've had to do were for updates or when I installed Panther).

Another thing to consider is service. I had to have my iBook repaired once. I took it to the Apple Store on Wednesday at 3PM. They took it and shipped it out that day. Airborne Express was knocking at my door Friday at 9:30AM with my laptop. Less than 48 hours. I've never experienced that from anyone else.
 
MicroSun? SunSoft?, Black Hole Sun, won't you come…?

reorx said:
I think what you have here is an application problem. All Java VMs are not created equal... For a fair comparison, you'd have to turn off JIT and use Sun's Hot Spot VM for a fair Java-to-Java comparison... I don't doubt that the freaking amazing (I'm not kidding) instruction decoders and schedulers in the current crop of x86 cpus make a huge impact on the performance of "average" JIT compiled code, versus a traditional VM. The massive L2 doesn't hurt either... :D I just think that Java is a poor language for intensive computational tasks...and I'm a Java developer! Its just not its core competency...

Seems ironic that the Java VM on these PC's is superior to those from Sun themselves (and on Mac), when Bill has gone to so much trouble in the past to try and dilute Java with proprietry Microsoft versions. Although, now, with the Sun/Microsoft Unholy alliance anything is possible. Open the gates of Hell, and you never know WHAT might come out. :(
 
oingoboingo said:
I guess that was my original point a few posts back...if there are long delays for existing Mac users in getting G5 PowerBooks out, then heavy users who can switch to x86 will probably do that.



You were originally asking for an example of what could possibly not be suitable for a 1.5GHz G4, and I provided one. So we both agree...the 1.5GHz G4 PowerBook isn't the right tool. A G5 PowerBook might well be though. I think we're all right back to where we started now :)

Actually no, I asked what the G5 can do that the G4 1.5Ghz CANNOT. The G4 PowerBook is up to the task, you just want to save a minute or 2, hardly a basis for claiming the G4 is not up to the job, your just impatient ;)

Cmon man, a minute or 2?
 
Lets compare the latest G4 1.5Ghz machine and a high end Intel PC. We will go ahead and note the Intel based system is faster in the notebook, matter of fact we will directly compare it to a dragster, full ethano,l fully bored out speed demon from hell. Then we will call the G4 1.5Ghz a Porsche, not the fastest on the block but high performance and tuned.

The dragster shoots off at blinding speeds (and high noise levels mind you) for a short amount of time then it either runs out of gas or comes to a crashing stop. Intel chips go fast but since Windows is the driver it will only perform well for a short amount of time before the system becomes unstable or just flat out crashes, losing work in the progress and taking MORE time then it should. Windows is the worst driver in the world and thinks riding up on the curbs is ok, we can patch them if they break!

The Porsche takes off itself, takes everything you throw at it and keeps it up FAR longer then the dragster, has very little chance of crashing (due to the speed being slower) and is made for more heavy duty driving. The G4 also is a very efficient chip, it takes anything you throw at it and keeps on going, rarely does it crash because inside the Porsche driving is OS X, the best driver in the world, and rarely does he screw up. He has experience, know-how, insane amounts of skills.

So the question is before you, which driver do you want? Which car is going to be the better in the longhaul? Are you really saving that much time with a Pentium based PC with all the restarts, crashes, security flaws, etc etc etc, or are you better off waiting an extra few seconds and running flawlessly?
 
More news on IBM yield problems

From tonight Tawian investor site
2004/04/20 Taiwan: TSMC (2330 TT, NT$59.5), UMC (2303 TT, NT$31.5): TSMC and UMC benefit from poor yield of IBM's 12" fab


IBM facing poor yield of 0.13um and 90nm
Main customers such as nVidia and Qualcomm are switching back to TSMC and UMC
Maintain BUY recommendations on TSMC and UMC

According to the "Economic Daily," nVidia, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Cisco and Xilinx are switching back from IBM foundry to TSMC and UMC due to the lower yield of IBM's 12" fab. IBM's lower yield of 0.13um and 90nm, and reducing IP revenue are causing IBM's 1Q losses in the semiconductor division.

Analyst comment:
1) We believe that IBM's lower 12" yield in 1Q04 will benefit TSMC and UMC going forward. The order rotation from IBM back to TSMC and UMC is expected to begin in 2Q04. We expect TSMC to show 8-10% and UMC 10% QoQ sales growth in 2Q04.

2) We expect UMC to benefit from capacity support from SiS and He-Jian beginning in 2Q04, which to show stronger revenue growth momentum than TSMC. However, we retain our BUY on both TSMC and UMC, due to their leading position in the technology universe, and capacity ramp-up, respectively.
 
chasingapple said:
Actually no, I asked what the G5 can do that the G4 1.5Ghz CANNOT. The G4 PowerBook is up to the task, you just want to save a minute or 2, hardly a basis for claiming the G4 is not up to the job, your just impatient ;)

Cmon man, a minute or 2?

I agree - is a little extra delay really going to kill you? Now it's a different story if you're a Pro user - if you are getting PAID to do graphic design, etc. and your livelihood depends on how fast you can render images, design things, etc., alright - time is money then for you. I appreciate that. But just because a G4 is slower than a G5 at some tasks does NOT mean it is crippled or not "up to the job". Some people are a little impatient it seems...

I also find it ironic that for the past few months people have been complaining on this site over and over every week about no updates "this Tuesday" - and now finally we have updates and what do they do? Complain again. Some people are never happy. :rolleyes:
 
~Shard~ said:
I agree - is a little extra delay really going to kill you? Now it's a different story if you're a Pro user - if you are getting PAID to do graphic design, etc. and your livelihood depends on how fast you can render images, design things, etc., alright - time is money then for you. I appreciate that. But just because a G4 is slower than a G5 at some tasks does NOT mean it is crippled or not "up to the job". Some people are a little impatient it seems...

I also find it ironic that for the past few months people have been complaining on this site over and over every week about no updates "this Tuesday" - and now finally we have updates and what do they do? Complain again. Some people are never happy. :rolleyes:

Correct, they live to bitch about stuff. And thus this thread is dead, nothing else to offer but to listen to the children rant and rave and bitch and moan, im off to find a real discussion, cheers mates, go back to bitching now
 
~Shard~ said:
I agree - is a little extra delay really going to kill you? Now it's a different story if you're a Pro user - if you are getting PAID to do graphic design, etc. and your livelihood depends on how fast you can render images, design things, etc., alright - time is money then for you. I appreciate that. But just because a G4 is slower than a G5 at some tasks does NOT mean it is crippled or not "up to the job". Some people are a little impatient it seems...

No, no... It's that we don't have eight G5s and a Radeon 8000000 with 6GB of RAM in the PowerBook and a headless iMac that makes the whole of Apple suck, Shard. Haven't you been paying attention? Every user is so efficient at their use of cycles that there's never a spare one in their machines and so they're always waiting, waiting, waiting for some important task. Why, sometimes, it takes as much as a minute for a render to finish! :rolleyes:

On a related note, my dad and I were talking about Apple and the NAB releases. I'd been reading up on them and bringing him up to speed, and when I laid them out in a certain order so that he would see where I was going... Well, when you see an old signal processing engineer's eyes light up like that, it's an interesting sight. :D

I think that we're about to see a revolution in computing that will be every bit as powerful as what Apple did in the early 80s. It's starting at the pro level, where the hardware definitely exists, but will trickle down as solid uses are created. Xsan and XGrid are the first steps into a true, distributed network computer in the home. Apple is going to be selling people easily linked home supercomputers, in other words, within the next three to five years. Sony's on the idea, too, with their ideas for Cell, but I think Apple has a better chance to do it.

Take my dad's house for example... He's got three macs active at the moment, and at any given time, at least one is idle. With a sufficient network speed, the one that he's using could parcel background tasks off to the idling machine and let it do the work. Apple already does this with Shake, and the plugin architecture for XGrid should let them expand it tremendously.

The fact that Xsan runs on fibrechannel says something to me, namely that high-bandwidth distributed computing is about to become an enterprise reality. It's like the old idea that Apple would move with an Oracle-like netboot terminal, only in the opposite direction.

I also find it ironic that for the past few months people have been complaining on this site over and over every week about no updates "this Tuesday" - and now finally we have updates and what do they do? Complain again. Some people are never happy. :rolleyes:

But.. It doesn't have a G6! An anonymous rumor on a website said that the chips should be done, and someone on a board said it should work and that it ought to cost $500 less. I waaaaaant one now! :mad: :confused: :rolleyes: :p
 
thatwendigo said:
No, no... It's that we don't have eight G5s and a Radeon 8000000 with 6GB of RAM in the PowerBook and a headless iMac that makes the whole of Apple suck, Shard. Haven't you been paying attention? Every user is so efficient at their use of cycles that there's never a spare one in their machines and so they're always waiting, waiting, waiting for some important task. Why, sometimes, it takes as much as a minute for a render to finish! :rolleyes:

Gee, thanks a lot, you just blew up my sarcasm detector... ;) Yah, sorry about that, I forgot that everyone is perfectly efficient and always has their Mac at 100% utilization, thus needing more horsepower. Until you can render all of Finding Nemo in 1 second, I guess you'll just have to complain some more... ;)


thatwendigo said:
I think that we're about to see a revolution in computing that will be every bit as powerful as what Apple did in the early 80s. It's starting at the pro level, where the hardware definitely exists, but will trickle down as solid uses are created. Xsan and XGrid are the first steps into a true, distributed network computer in the home. Apple is going to be selling people easily linked home supercomputers, in other words, within the next three to five years. Sony's on the idea, too, with their ideas for Cell, but I think Apple has a better chance to do it.

I agree - Apple has always been a pioneer, and these updates and extensions to the Pro world will have significant impacts on the rest of the computing world, sooner than one might think. Not only are the tools becoming more and more powerful, but as you cite, concepts such as xSan and xGrid will pave the way for increased productivity and efficiency. Well, only if you have a G5 PowerBook I guess... :p

thatwendigo said:
But.. It doesn't have a G6! An anonymous rumor on a website said that the chips should be done, and someone on a board said it should work and that it ought to cost $500 less. I waaaaaant one now! :mad: :confused: :rolleyes: :p

Sounds like your best bet is just to buy an AMD FX-52 with a 9800XT graphics card - I hear they benchmark faster than the G6s already and can display 5 extra frames per second in UT2004 with everything turned on. Now THAT'S the future of computing - none of this xSan crap... ;) :cool:
 
~Shard~ said:
Gee, thanks a lot, you just blew up my sarcasm detector... ;)

I'll buy you a new one. How does Wal-Mart sound as a supplier?

Yah, sorry about that, I forgot that everyone is perfectly efficient and always has their Mac at 100% utilization, thus needing more horsepower. Until you can render all of Finding Nemo in 1 second, I guess you'll just have to complain some more... ;)

As much as you meant that to be wry and sardonic, good sir Shard, I saw someone say something in that vein. To him, computers will never be fast enough if he has to wait for anything to be done. It's either instant or too slow. :rolleyes:

In the words of the Dread Pirate Roberts: "Get used to disappointment."

I agree - Apple has always been a pioneer, and these updates and extensions to the Pro world will have significant impacts on the rest of the computing world, sooner than one might think. Not only are the tools becoming more and more powerful, but as you cite, concepts such as xSan and xGrid will pave the way for increased productivity and efficiency. Well, only if you have a G5 PowerBook I guess... :p

Didn't I tell you? Mine arrived yesterday. It's got an NV6800 in it, and I only have to wear the asbestos apron around half of the time. :cool:

Sounds like your best bet is just to buy an AMD FX-52 with a 9800XT graphics card - I hear they benchmark faster than the G6s already and can display 5 extra frames per second in UT2004 with everything turned on. Now THAT'S the future of computing - none of this xSan crap... ;) :cool:

You're behind, man. You need the Athlon FX53, because it arbitrarily better. I mean, look at the number! It's one higher. How can you argue with that? Besides, why would I want anything elegant or quiet, when I could doulbe up purposes and have my computer be a space heater in the winter and a circulation fan in the summer? ;)
 
Calebj14 said:
but remember the bump in Nov 03 that brought the 12" to 1 GHz, the 15" to 1.25 GHz and the 17" to 1.33 GHz?

edit: oops i put the wrong date! It should be Sept 03. Now I see others have posted this..... sorry. :D

Actually, the specs you mentioned were correct as of Sept. 1, 03. My point is it doesn't make sense to say as of a particular date, the specs were like this compared to current line up when in fact on the day your span began, the models had been out already for 8 and 10 months respectively. Or as another poster said, a week ago the 12" was at 1 GHZ, today it's at 1.33, so that's a 33% increase in one week. :)
 
chasingapple said:
Actually no, I asked what the G5 can do that the G4 1.5Ghz CANNOT. The G4 PowerBook is up to the task, you just want to save a minute or 2, hardly a basis for claiming the G4 is not up to the job, your just impatient ;)

Cmon man, a minute or 2?

<sigh> Ok I see where we're going here. Like I said originally, a G4 will of course be able to run the same applications a G5 can. They're both Macintoshes. They're both PowerPCs. You know you can install Mac OS X 10.1 on a PowerPC 604 system? I've done it on a PowerMac 7600/120. It was up to the task, for sure. It ran everything I asked of it. But that would be missing the point entirely. It's a question of speed.

You may not mind waiting 4 minutes for a CPU-bound job to finish when you could have only waited 3 minutes. You might not mind that when you run the same calculation or the same job type several times over the course of the week, it adds up to an hour or two of saved time...or more. Maybe you just like the waiting time so you can relax and read the newspaper? Maybe you just don't perform any type of complex computation at all, and a G4 PowerBook is already fast enough for everything you need it to do. I don't know. But if you're happy with the performance of a G4 PowerBook, that's great. You will find a fantastic range of Macintosh G4-based portables over at www.apple.com/store.

However, your expectations are not shared by everyone. People want to run heavy CPU-bound tasks on a notebook. They want the jobs to run quickly. They want it to finish in 3 minutes what used to take 4 minutes. They want their visions realised in now-time, not in 2 minute's time. They appreciate the hours a week, days a month, or weeks a year that these time savings add up to. Yes...some people are impatient. They don't like sitting around waiting for a computer to analyse their images, add video effects to their film, compile their source code, find their DNA sequence, or render their 3D animation. For these people, a 1.5GHz PowerBook G4 may not be up to the task. End of story.

Seriously...nowhere else on the web except in Mac-land will you find a tech community so dedicated to down-managing and containing the expectations of its members based on its own limited range of experiences.

OVERHEARD IN THE TOYOTA OWNER'S FORUM
Person 1: "Well I love my Toyota Corolla. I use it to drive to the grocery store and take the kids to school. It's great for that!"
Person 2: "Hmmm...that's nice for you, but I need something bigger. I tow a boat on the weekends and go off-road a little camping, and I don't think the Corolla will cut it. Maybe something with a little more muscle...maybe a V8 LandCruiser"
Person 1: <foaming at the mouth for effect> "You're WRONG!!!!! Believe me, I love the Corolla and it's enough for ANYTHING!!!!. You ungrateful FESTERING BABOON!!!! You don't NEED anything bigger. All you do is COMPLAIN. If there's one person who understands your driving needs better than you, it's ME!!!!! I should stick my hand up your butt and use you for a COMPLAINING SULKING HAND PUPPET for mentioning the V8 LandCruiser"
 
chasingapple said:
Lets compare the latest G4 1.5Ghz machine and a high end Intel PC. We will go ahead and note the Intel based system is faster in the notebook, matter of fact we will directly compare it to a dragster, full ethano,l fully bored out speed demon from hell. Then we will call the G4 1.5Ghz a Porsche, not the fastest on the block but high performance and tuned.

The dragster shoots off at blinding speeds (and high noise levels mind you) for a short amount of time then it either runs out of gas or comes to a crashing stop. Intel chips go fast but since Windows is the driver it will only perform well for a short amount of time before the system becomes unstable or just flat out crashes, losing work in the progress and taking MORE time then it should. Windows is the worst driver in the world and thinks riding up on the curbs is ok, we can patch them if they break!

The Porsche takes off itself, takes everything you throw at it and keeps it up FAR longer then the dragster, has very little chance of crashing (due to the speed being slower) and is made for more heavy duty driving. The G4 also is a very efficient chip, it takes anything you throw at it and keeps on going, rarely does it crash because inside the Porsche driving is OS X, the best driver in the world, and rarely does he screw up. He has experience, know-how, insane amounts of skills.

So the question is before you, which driver do you want? Which car is going to be the better in the longhaul? Are you really saving that much time with a Pentium based PC with all the restarts, crashes, security flaws, etc etc etc, or are you better off waiting an extra few seconds and running flawlessly?

So basically, the powerbook line is not needed? Anything that can run osX and doesnt crash is more than good enough for anyone who doesnt want wintel? Who are you to decide that the current speed of a computer is enough for everyone?

Moving the powermac to g5 was a big mistake, because the g4 was a perfectly good chip and a lot cheaper. Actually, I dont think the g5 even exists. Its still just a g4, but it is and has always been so fast that noone is noticing the difference. Its all in our minds.

I wish apple would hire you as chief of development.
Faster powerbooks? nah, not needed. Evolving the os? nah, its perfect right now.

My bitchin has very little to do with apple, and very much to do with you telling me what i could use, and what i couldnt use.
 
oingoboingo said:
You may not mind waiting 4 minutes for a CPU-bound job to finish when you could have only waited 3 minutes...I don't know. But if you're happy with the performance of a G4 PowerBook, that's great.

You're right about a few things: One, I don't mind a slight wait, and two, the G4 already does most of what I need to do.

However, your expectations are not shared by everyone. People want to run heavy CPU-bound tasks on a notebook. They want the jobs to run quickly. They want it to finish in 3 minutes what used to take 4 minutes. They want their visions realised in now-time, not in 2 minute's time. They appreciate the hours a week, days a month, or weeks a year that these time savings add up to. Yes...some people are impatient. They don't like sitting around waiting for a computer to analyse their images, add video effects to their film, compile their source code, find their DNA sequence, or render their 3D animation. For these people, a 1.5GHz PowerBook G4 may not be up to the task. End of story.

Then, as I already said, they need to take some advice from the Dread Pirate Roberts. No computer that is available to professionals today does the kinds of things you're talking about without a wait. Nothing is going to be fast enough for them, and their imaptience is a source of needless frustration for them. They're probably the same people who cut others off in traffic all the time, because getting to the stoplight first is so important. :rolleyes:

Seriously...nowhere else on the web except in Mac-land will you find a tech community so dedicated to down-managing and containing the expectations of its members based on its own limited range of experiences.

Maybe you should turn that around. Perhaps there's nowhere else on the web that you'll find a community that will accept the reality of the market quite so readily. You're perfectly free to go buy something else, we just happen to like our nice, comfortable, and much more elegantly styled machines.

OVERHEARD IN THE TOYOTA OWNER'S FORUM.....COMPLAINING SULKING HAND PUPPET for mentioning the V8 LandCruiser"

This is a terrible comparison, because the difference between a Corolla and a Landcruiser is much more simple than the one between a G5 desktop and a portable.
 
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