Powerbook Rumors Again

[beefcake]

Re: Current G4 a better deal?

Originally posted by jamdr
Wouldn't it be a better idea to buy a CURRENT PowerBook G4, such as a 15" 1Ghz? Think about it. You are getting all of the added features of a high-end 15", like the airport card, the extra RAM and video memory, a bigger hard drive, and most importantly the SuperDrive, but you would only be paying $2300 if you are a student. Next month, that $2300 is going to buy you the new lower-end PowerBook 15", which may have a slightly faster processor, probably at 1.1Ghz, but won't include airport or the SuperDrive, or anywhere near as much memory. Is that really worth it? That airport card is $100, the extra memory is probably another $100, and you wouldn't be able to burn DVDs. The only thing you'd get for waiting is an imperceptible speed increase. At this point, and for the next few years, airport extreme and FireWire 800 offer no real advantage over their predecessors because nothing takes advantage of them. I say, buy up those 1Ghz TiBook before they disappear!

Good point. Like others, I'm guilty of getting caught up in rumors, but now that I think about it, why do I want to inconvenience my life to break the bank on a slightly faster machine?

 

[davida]

Re: ppc970 could fill role of desktop P4 laptops

Originally posted by AidenShaw
(A P4 laptop in the bookshelf or in a drawer has more minimalist elegance than any flavor of desktop - even one that looks like a cross between a desklamp and a makeup mirror.)

Links, facts, papers, benchmark results please.......

Or is that statement your personal opinion?

😛

 

[jaedreth]

Buying the current model

Because even if you decide you agree (with the opinion) that it is good economics to buy the current model with the edu discount, you will still kick yourself once the new models ship, because they're newer, and they're likely to have something that these models don't have (whether you'd make use of them or not).

Simply human habit. (I think human nature is a myth, but that's another topic for elsewhere.)

Computer powerusers, geeks, etc. are like Kenders.

Oooh, shiny, pretty, new features. I *want*.

So if you do decide to go with the insanely great deal going on for edu, just make a mental note of what your gut response is going to be when you see the new Powerbooks, tell yourself it's ok, and go out and treat yourself to chocolate ice cream or something...

Wanting the top of the line isn't necessarily an ego thing, but rather an emotional type "I want" throwback from childhood, which we should induge ourselves in on occasion.

But it's still a good idea to take a practial look at the economics of the situation.

Jaedreth

 

[robeddie]

12" powerbook crippled

Why is the 12" powerbook unsatisfactory? If you want to play many of the latest games... that's easy.
Try reading the system requirements on the side of the box for unreal tournament 2003. It says any g4 above 700mhz will work... except for the 12" powerbook manufactured in 2003. (This is not a 'laptops just aren't made for games' issue... the 15" g4 and 17" g4 run UT2003 just fine)

I called macsoft for an explanation of exactly why... and was told it basically comes down to one thing... the lack of an L3 cache slows the system down so much... they were not able to achieve reasonable frame rates.
This... despite the fact that the processor speed and video card... in and of themselves... are just fine to run a game like UT2003.
Even Tiger Woods 2003 staggers on the 12" powerbook... (By the way, both games run like silk w/high detail on my g4 933 desktop)

Why Apple crippled one of the 'pro' model laptops by excluding an L3 cache is beyond me. I thought that was only something they would only do to the 'budget' ibook models.

But I also wonder WHY? How much does a 1mb cache cost apple anyway? It must be alot... or that fact that most people don't notice/bitch about it.

Even if Apple updates the powerbook to 1.1 ghz... if it doesn't have that L3 cache... I'll still be suspect of it's real performance abilities.

Rob S.

 

[panphage]

all I want is a dvi on the 12" powerbook. Oh, and an ATI gpu. And some level 3 cache. But mostly the dvi.

I'd settle for an apple branded vga to adc adaptor retailing at sub $200.

Now I'm tempted by the ti again, it's really not THAT much larger than the 12...but I really really like the look and feel of the aluminum, especially the keyboard. And man, builtin bluetooth is nice.

 

[beefcake]

jaedreth: Another very good point. However, as was stated earlier in this thread, a newer model will at least be slightly more expensive. Peronally, I'd rather have a gig of ram than a processor that clocks at 100mhz faster.

Still, it will take more than a few ice creams to silence the greedy child inside me that wants a shiny new aluminum PB.

 

[FriarTuck]

What's going on with Amazon?

Last week they had $100 rebates on the 12 inch Powerbooks I was considering. Today, the Superdrive is no longer stocked and the Combo has no rebate.

 

[WM.]

Originally posted by illumin8
Why do you think this is certain? As many others in this thread have already said, a 200 mhz. FSB has no way of fully utilizing DDR400 memory, let alone DDR333 memory. Why wouldn't Apple just use DDR333 memory instead? There's no way a small FSB of 200 could fully utilize it anyway.

*blink*

*scratches head*

Well, I guess I say that because it tracks with what Apple has done previously--they went to DDR333 when the FSB went to 167 MHz, instead of staying at DDR266. I would think the same principle works going from 167 to 200 MHz, especially if they use the same chipset (Intrepid). Maybe the chipset requires the same clock speed for RAM and CPU, who knows. I wish we could find out more about the Apple-designed ASICs like Intrepid, U3, K2...but we can't.

I shouldn't say that DDR400 is certain with a 200 MHz FSB, but it seems pretty likely based on what's happened in the past.

FWIW
WM

 

[chomsky]

Originally posted by panphage


I'd settle for an apple branded vga to adc adaptor retailing at sub $200.

Can someone please explain to me why, besides sheer greed, apple makes their displays with a nonstandard connection and then charges out the ass for a cheap adaptor? @$#*!

Waiting on the updated 17".....

-chomsky

 

[wizard]

Re: ppc970 could fill role of desktop P4 laptops

Maybe just a bit harsh, but like some of the first P4 laptops rushed to market a G5 likewise rushed to market could be more of a problem then its worth. I'd rather see Apple take its time and produce a G5 laptop that is reliable, consitantly fast and full featured.

Apple may very well be far down this path already, I simply don't know. What has become apparent is that a 1.2GHz 970 in a laptop is not likely to be an outstanding performer. That doesn't mean that Apple and IBM aren't working to make a G5 laptop, I'm just not convinced that the current 970 will be going in it.

I completely understand the desire for power, but lets face it we don't see a Opteron, Zeon or a Willamette in a laptop. Granted a 970 outclasses all of these but the point is we seem to have this belief that the G4 laptops will suddenly be out classed by a G5 machine. From my perspective a better performing G4 and better power usage will put that thought on hold for a while.

Dave

Originally posted by AidenShaw
You're a bit harsh here.

The Pentium 4 laptops with the full-power desktop chips are big, heavy, and have relatively short battery life.

They're also selling very well.

Some people value power over portability. They aren't the road warriors who spend their time in airports, they're people who carry a machine back and forth between the office and home.

They're people who want to hide the computer at home, yet have a full-power system. (A P4 laptop in the bookshelf or in a drawer has more minimalist elegance than any flavor of desktop - even one that looks like a cross between a desklamp and a makeup mirror.)

Apple could address this market with a G5 laptop today.

 

[DrGonzo]

Originally posted by beefcake
jaedreth: Another very good point. However, as was stated earlier in this thread, a newer model will at least be slightly more expensive. Peronally, I'd rather have a gig of ram than a processor that clocks at 100mhz faster.

Still, it will take more than a few ice creams to silence the greedy child inside me that wants a shiny new aluminum PB.

TRUE it will be more expensive, and maybe only 100-300mhz faster, but it supposedly will be more efficient w/ power and cooler as well. Personally i like the Al case better than Ti which is another reason i'm waiting.

Also, I'm a college student in graphic design and history, people that think you have to have a laptop right away, what's wrong with you (ESPECIALLY the freshman)? Does your school not have labs that you can use if you absolutely have to use a mac for your assignments? I don't need a new powerbook, but like most people on here, i WANT a new one. Hell for the first week, at least, of school you don't even do anything worthwhile. Like everyone else, I am getting tired of all these rumors.

 

[yzedf]

Re: Re: Current G4 a better deal?

Originally posted by beefcake
Good point. Like others, I'm guilty of getting caught up in rumors, but now that I think about it, why do I want to inconvenience my life to break the bank on a slightly faster machine?

For me the 12" is too small (I use a 13" IBM now), the 17" is too big and flimsy feeling (I am not overly gentle), and the 15" is just the right size. Problem is, painted (gentle thing again) shell, junky airport reception, and the flimsy Ti body itself. Maybe I am living a sheltered life with my ultra durable ThinkPad... but I WANT OSX now... and I have sworn not to get another desktop (just made a cheapo PC file server box for $400). This wait and see thing is getting kind of old.... 🙁

 

[D*I*S_Frontman]

I am in agreement with AidenShaw on this one. I would rather have a first-class desktop replacement in a laptop that has a shorter portable use time @ maximum power (and the ability to dial it down to save juice) than to have a slower laptop overall. My Pismo's battery is toast, but I haven't bothered to replace it yet--90% of the time I have it docked to my home keyboard/VGA/mouse set-up, and when I go portable I ALWAYS plug it in. Not that big of a deal.

I am looking to upgrade (for obvious reasons, a.k.a. Pismo 400) but I will be content to wait until the G5s in all their glory make it into the 17". I am planning to get into dv production work within the next year, and dual G5 17" would be nice--quick turnaround times and portability for demos and presentations. Having everything with you anywhere you go is a fantastic benefit, IMHO.

It is perfectly reasonable to make a portable that runs on an "either/or" basis, i.e., fast FSB and dual CPUs for 45 minutes, one CPU running @ 1/2 speed and 1/2 FSB speed for 2-2 1/2 hours. My Pismo's fried battery lasts me 7 minutes, fer cryin' out loud! I am not a "frequent flyer" and everywhere else I go seems to be wired for AC. No biggie.

 

[beefcake]

Originally posted by DrGonzo
TRUE it will be more expensive, and maybe only 100-300mhz faster, but it supposedly will be more efficient w/ power and cooler as well. Personally i like the Al case better than Ti which is another reason i'm waiting.

Also, I'm a college student in graphic design and history, people that think you have to have a laptop right away, what's wrong with you (ESPECIALLY the freshman)? Does your school not have labs that you can use if you absolutely have to use a mac for your assignments? I don't need a new powerbook, but like most people on here, i WANT a new one. Hell for the first week, at least, of school you don't even do anything worthwhile. Like everyone else, I am getting tired of all these rumors.

It's not that I think I'll need a laptop in the first weeks of school, it's purely a convenience issue. I live in New York, I'm going to school in Baltimore. If the new PB comes out at the end of August I'll have to go to school with my sister's old Dell desktop, complete with a monstrous 17" monitor. I have no desire to bring the monitor and tower up to my 3rd floor dorm room just to replace it in a week. Then I have to find somewhere to put the Dell, and bring it back down to the car when I get a chance to visit. It's true that I'm being overly dramatic about moving a simple desktop PC, but if I can avoid it I will. Plus I've never used OSX before and I'd like a little experience before the second or third week of school.

 

[fpnc]

Originally posted by chomsky
Can someone please explain to me why, besides sheer greed, apple makes their displays with a nonstandard connection and then charges out the ass for a cheap adaptor? @$#*!

Waiting on the updated 17".....

-chomsky

Going from VGA (analog) to digital (DVI and/or ADC) is not a "cheap adaptor" (i.e. it can't be done for very little money).

Furthermore, I think ADC is pretty neat, but I'd agree that it has no possibility of replacing simple DVI as a cross-platform standard.

And to return to topic, why not 1.0 and 1.2GHz 7457-based PowerBooks. That would seem to fit well with a 200MHz FSB (assuming that 200MHz capability is more than just rumor). Also, a 1.2GHz 7457 apparently dissipates about 14 watts of power, while the current 1.0GHz PowerBook consumes 15 watts. So, on power consumption alone a 1.2GHz top end seems like a good fit. Another question might be whether the 7457-based PowerBooks will use a level 3 cache. Perhaps with the increased size of the L2 cache Apple will just drop L3 to save on both cost and power consumption.

My guess is a 1.0GHz 12", 1.0 and 1.2GHz 15", and 1.2GHz 17". And I expect that we will see these well __before__ the end of August.

 

[DrGonzo]

Originally posted by beefcake
It's not that I think I'll need a laptop in the first weeks of school, it's purely a convenience issue. I live in New York, I'm going to school in Baltimore. If the new PB comes out at the end of August I'll have to go to school with my sister's old Dell desktop, complete with a monstrous 17" monitor. I have no desire to bring the monitor and tower up to my 3rd floor dorm room just to replace it in a week. Then I have to find somewhere to put the Dell, and bring it back down to the car when I get a chance to visit. It's true that I'm being overly dramatic about moving a simple desktop PC, but if I can avoid it I will. Plus I've never used OSX before and I'd like a little experience before the second or third week of school.

Simple solution, DON'T bring the desktop. I don't know what year you are or where you're living, dorms, apt or what not, but my freshman year we all had computers, the dorm had it's own lab, every building at school had at least one lab. Meaning, if you want to or need to use a computer, one is very readily available. Of course if you absolutely can't live w/o a computer for a few weeks in your own residency, then son, i feel sorry for you. If you want to get used to OS X goto the mac labs w/ OS X it's pretty simple.

 

[panphage]

Originally posted by DrGonzo
Simple solution, DON'T bring the desktop.
<snip>
If you want to get used to OS X goto the mac labs w/ OS X it's pretty simple.

And spend $150 on a powered usb zip 250. Even less on ebay. Under $50 for a powered zip 100. Then you can carry some graphic files around with you. I designed my first three websites w/o even owning a computer. I installed fireworks and dreamweaver on a zip disk, took the drive to the lab, plugged him in and went to town. 😀

 

[Speek]

Question...

Hi, I would appreciate some advice from those with more experience as an Apple customer than myself.

Ive recently decided to purchase a PowerBook, specifically the 15'' model. Ive been researching it and have discovered on sites such as this, that an upgrade across the range is soon to be announced.

Im wondering if, when the new models are announced, they will be made available on the Apple store for pre-ordering, leaving the older models available for a limted time. Much like the G5 is currently, with the older G4 available, I assume, for a limited time.

I would like to know whether the prices of the soon-to-be-old PowerBooks are likely to be reduced when the newer models are announced. Or if they will simply remove the older PowerBooks and replace them with the new models once they available for shipping.

Thank you in advance,

Speek

 

[Analog Kid]

Re: Students with top of the line *PowerBooks*?!

Originally posted by slightly
This must be a new definition of the word "student" that I wasn't previously aware of. When the fastest possible PowerBook model becomes a mandatory purchase for students, I'll eat my words. Until then, you're *students*. Spend your money on beer and loose women like we had to.

I think you're forgetting that there is some selection in the types of folks you're getting exposed to on this board. If they've found this, and they care enough to post, they probably take their tools more seriously than most.

It's like going to a BMW conference and wonder why everyone seems to like German cars so much...

 

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by WM.
Well, I guess I say that because it tracks with what Apple has done previously--they went to DDR333 when the FSB went to 167 MHz, instead of staying at DDR266. I would think the same principle works going from 167 to 200 MHz, especially if they use the same chipset (Intrepid). Maybe the chipset requires the same clock speed for RAM and CPU, who knows.

The DDR400 means the data clocks at 400MHz-- the bus transactions are actually 200MHz.

I don't know what happens if you run DDR with a CPU that doesn't support it-- can you get the data on only one clock edge for compatibility or do you have to run the clock at half the rate and eat the data as it's served?

Some of this is probably in the chipset...

Interesting question though-- if I get time I'll start looking for datasheets...

 

[scifi451]

It is unlikely but here is hoping for an updated 15" on update tuesday.

 

[Bruja]

IF and when they release this thing, will Panther be a standard load or will they still have OS-9 and Jaguar loaded on them??

 

[jstef]

Originally posted by Bruja
IF and when they release this thing, will Panther be a standard load or will they still have OS-9 and Jaguar loaded on them??

If the updated Powerbooks are released AFTER Panther is released, then we'll get Panther on them. Actually, any computer Apple sells after Panther is released should include Panther.

If the updated Powerbooks are released BEFORE Panther is released, then you won't be getting it. Maybe Apple would be kind enough to offer some kind of free upgrade, but don't bet on it.

In either case, the PB's won't come with OS9 and they will not be able to boot into OS9. Steve said something along the lines of 'no Apple released past Feb. this year will boot into OS9".

 

[wakedog]

Posted this in another column, but I just did some looking around to verify it... The Sept Paris conference goes from 16th-20th, the FCE discount ends on the 20th and the "Buy a bundle get a bundle back EDU" discount ends on the 27th... now to me, this means we're going to be waiting a little longer than the end of next month for a PB update. I'm banking on Sept, and hoping for late August, but not holding my breath.

For those that say it's more economical to get a 15" now, I'm planning on waiting until the end of the FCE and Bundle promos, and if they (new PBs) don't show then, I'll buy a 12" superdrive. But I'm hoping that by then I'll be able to get a new 15" (yeah, I'll spend the extra cash over a 12") with a superdrive and FCE for $99. That would be my perfect system right now, as having Firewire 800 (reported in the rumor post) would be great for vid editing, the primary reason I'm going with Mac, since Avid Xpress Dv is just a little too restrictive for what I want to do.

 

[SignTist]

Originally posted by beefcake
Great, I need to make a purchase by the beginning of next month for school, excellent timing Apple.

macWhispers is a complete failure and waste of time. Why you guys even go there? PJ is a effin moron!

SingTist



EDIT: I clicked the wrong quote button, sorry if that doesn't make sense