Mac_Freak said:
Well, if they take the Powerbooks out of their shipping boxes at the seminar, they certainly would be "new Powerbooks".
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PowerBook Updates Imminent?
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Well, if they take the Powerbooks out of their shipping boxes at the seminar, they certainly would be "new Powerbooks".
SeaFox said:Well, if they take the Powerbooks out of their shipping boxes at the seminar, they certainly would be "new Powerbooks".
Yep - depends on your definition of "new".
MacNoobie said:
Also, let's not forget, that to make a G5 PowerBook, at this stage in the game, they would be engineering a product with a very short life. If the Intel products are due early next year it would make more sense to devote time, money and effort to the long term products instead of developing a new product that will be around for, likely, less than a year.
Why not G5?
..."Also, let's not forget, that to make a G5 PowerBook, at this stage in the game, they would be engineering a product with a very short life. If the Intel products are due early next year it would make more sense to devote time, money and effort to the long term products instead of developing a new product that will be around for, likely, less than a year."
There's still plenty of time to have G5 Powerbooks since the high end machines will be the last to receive Intel processors. That's at least Q2 2006.
Furthermore, what are they going to do with all those low power G5 chips? Can't just chuck them.
As for the dual-processor G4's, Tundra is making a northbridge that is dual 7448 compatable, so maybe that is a possibility too.
..."Also, let's not forget, that to make a G5 PowerBook, at this stage in the game, they would be engineering a product with a very short life. If the Intel products are due early next year it would make more sense to devote time, money and effort to the long term products instead of developing a new product that will be around for, likely, less than a year."
There's still plenty of time to have G5 Powerbooks since the high end machines will be the last to receive Intel processors. That's at least Q2 2006.
Furthermore, what are they going to do with all those low power G5 chips? Can't just chuck them.
As for the dual-processor G4's, Tundra is making a northbridge that is dual 7448 compatable, so maybe that is a possibility too.
Steamboatwillie said:
Exactly - and it wouldn't give Apple much time to recover their G5 PowerBook R&D costs, with the Intels coming out next year, presumably sooner rather than later. Not saying that there hasn't altready been a significant amount of money wasted - er, invested in this initiative already of course.
~Shard~ said:Exactly - and it wouldn't give Apple much time to recover their G5 PowerBook R&D costs, with the Intels coming out next year, presumably sooner rather than later. Not saying that there hasn't altready been a significant amount of money wasted - er, invested in this initiative already of course.
It would make sense to me that Apple would come out with a new form factor for the PowerBook now, and keep that form factor through to the Intel changeover. I mean, the Intel announcement came at the Developer's Conference. To the general buying public, I would think they would want the changeover to be as unnoticeable as possible.
Give us a sweet new form factor, 7448 G4 or maybe G5 now, generate a ton of interest in a slick new 'Book, and give themselves breathing room to get the Intel 'Book done right.
digitalbiker said:
I wonder if there'll be a market next year for plug-in Cell processors. I'm sure the IBM/Sony/Toshiba Cell processor can do Altivec instructions and thus it might be crucial to add to Intel based Macs next year when Photoshop hasn't been rewritten yet for x86 Macs.
bryanc said:
Nice to see Someones opinions grounded in Reality.
For Apple to produce a G5 Powerbook at this stage would take an investment from IBM. I don't see that happening.
IBM seems to be drawing back from Java, Linux and hardware development.
EGT said:
I guess we'll know tomorrow.
digitalbiker said:
That's right. It's been a very long time since Apple started trying to make a G5 PowerBook. If they pulled it of, we'll know tomorrow, and it would mean an x86 PowerBook probably until the end of 2006 or early 2007. But if they didn't I guess that means we'll be seeing x86 PowerBooks sooner than we expected.
powerbook911 said:
I don't know too much about the differences between a G4 and a G5 except for the FSB. But there has to be something better about the G5 that let's you playback HD video and HD DVDs.
And about the keynote, I don't think Apple wants to hype about any product until it is x86. It would look awkward and contradictory.
~Shard~ said:Exactly - and it wouldn't give Apple much time to recover their G5 PowerBook R&D costs, with the Intels coming out next year, presumably sooner rather than later. Not saying that there hasn't altready been a significant amount of money wasted - er, invested in this initiative already of course.
True, but I'm sure some R&D has already been done. Plus, some people don't want to wait for a new PB, those people who want to wait for revisions before buying an Intel PB and I'm sure there are some zealots who refuse to use an Intel Mac (remember how many despised the Apple->Intel switch idea). Not saying that they are going to come out with anything...I figure at best we get a 0.2 GHz increase on the top-end powerbook. At best.
oskar said:
Sort of. CNet, WSJ, and others announced the switch to Intel just prior to WWDC 2005. In those anouncements it was also stated that the low end consumer products (Mac Mini) would be the first to be updated followed by the Pro line later in 2007.
This was later confirmed by Schiller in an interview. He stated consumer line first followed by pro line. Transistion complete across the line by the end of 2007.
While it doesn't rule out an early PB Intel transistion it sure doesn't help the arguement.
Whyren said:
Of course it has - how else were they able to determine they couldn't slap a G5 into a PowerBook no matter how they went about it!
However, from a economics/marketing point of view, that product would have to be in the marketplace for calculated amount of time with a certain number of sales to recoup those R&D expenses - it's something all companies like Apple consider. So again, even if they did release a G5 PowerBook (which they won't IMO), it would need out be out there for some time before Apple would truly make a profit on it. And I don't know if Apple's current Intel migration strategy would align with that.
manu chao said:
Funny, I'm running all my apps on a Pismo G3 500MHz including Photoshop, Illustrator, iPhoto, GraphicConverter, Word, Excel, iTunes, iCall, AddressBook and a whole lot more. Seems fine. Maybe your expectations are too high.
Here's to hope...
My own hopes for PowerBook updates (reasonable, I hope):
1. ATI Radeon Mobility 9800 128MB--after 4+ years with my tricked out Pismo's 8MB Rage card (don't laugh), I'm keenly aware of the bottleneck that non-upgradable GPUs can be after a few years. So I'm hoping to get at least the 9800, since this computer, like the trusty Pismo (best Apple machine I've EVER had), will be lasting me 3-4 years.
2. A 7448 cpu--don't care if it's 1.7 or 1.8 gHz, I just want the faster FSB.
3. I'd like to see the Seagate Momentus 120GB as a BTO option, which would save me the time and trouble of having a 3rd party install it later.
I'm not betting on the HD display or DDR2 RAM, but sure, that'd be nice if it happened. I also don't need a RAM bump; I can buy extra DDR my own. Stuff like the GPU can't be upgraded after the fact, so I'd rather see that sort of thing get revised. Anyway, I'm waiting for this last PPC PB revision--whenever that is--so I can get that last shot of PPC and coast into Intel goodness a few years down the road, after kinks have been worked out. Let's hope the revision comes soon.
My own hopes for PowerBook updates (reasonable, I hope):
1. ATI Radeon Mobility 9800 128MB--after 4+ years with my tricked out Pismo's 8MB Rage card (don't laugh), I'm keenly aware of the bottleneck that non-upgradable GPUs can be after a few years. So I'm hoping to get at least the 9800, since this computer, like the trusty Pismo (best Apple machine I've EVER had), will be lasting me 3-4 years.
2. A 7448 cpu--don't care if it's 1.7 or 1.8 gHz, I just want the faster FSB.
3. I'd like to see the Seagate Momentus 120GB as a BTO option, which would save me the time and trouble of having a 3rd party install it later.
I'm not betting on the HD display or DDR2 RAM, but sure, that'd be nice if it happened. I also don't need a RAM bump; I can buy extra DDR my own. Stuff like the GPU can't be upgraded after the fact, so I'd rather see that sort of thing get revised. Anyway, I'm waiting for this last PPC PB revision--whenever that is--so I can get that last shot of PPC and coast into Intel goodness
a few years down the road, after kinks have been worked out. Let's hope the revision comes soon.This All Makes Sense to AidenShaw
(1) If AidenShaw is correct, (unfortunately) the first MacIntels will be based on the Dothan chip. This will go into the MacMini and perhaps (God forbid) the iBook. As I've said before, the memory subsystem is weak when the 400/533 FSB is coupled with DDR2 RAM because of the increased latency found in DDR2 over DDR RAM. It is well documented that DDR 400 RAM is faster than DDR2 400 and that DDR2 533 is ONLY almost as fast as DDR 400. Let's pray that TS is wrong about Apple using DDR2 in the new PB because while the voltage may be lower, the latency is higher and Apple will most certainly use DDR2 400 if they are using Freescale's 7448 chip. DDR 400 would be a better choice for performance, but probably not for marketing.
(2) Apple could again demonstrate its ineptitude and lack of leadership by differentiating the iBook from the PowerBook line if it waited to introduce a new PB until mid to late 2006. Then Apple could place the Yonah chip in the iBook and the Merom chip in the PB. This would differentiate the two portable lines in terms of 32 bit vs 64 bit and 533MHz vs 667MHz FSB. In addition, battery life will not get any better in the Intel world until Merom is introduced. (Will the PB finally have a better battery life than the Ib?) I really hope Apple doesn't follow this logic because everyone in the PC market will be one step ahead of them, and I am tired of trailing them. Few if any PC laptops will use Dothan chips in NEW laptops in January. Also in January, Intel chipsets for laptops will begin to support 4GB RAM, and even Dell Inspirons will probably migrate to the Yonah chip. And in mid-2006 when the 64 bit craze takes root, who will sell NEW laptops with Yonah chips --anyone besides Apple??? Probably not! And how will Apple market its consumer laptops??? By selling chips one generation older than everyone else??? Ludicrous, I say.
(3) The average to low-class consumer will have the privilege of being Apple's guinea pigs for its x86 migration, as they test the waters in their low end hardware. As Adobe has stated, they will not have an x86 solution until late 2006 or early 2007. So who among the power users would switch to x86 without any pro-Apps? They would be in the same position as G5 owners who needed to use VPC but had to wait a year before it was compatible.
(4) Therefore, I can see Apple waiting to release new x86 PBs until they have refined the OS to run well and have enough app.s to sell to professionals (perhaps this won't be quite as smooth as SJ claims). PB updates now (or at least really soon) would give Apple some breathing room before they move PBs to Merom's 64 bit architecture. The Merom architecture is the basis for the whole new family of Intel processors--laptop and desktop--and I imagine that Apple will want to begin its professional line of laptops with a new architecture (Yonah is the end of the old x86 architecture) and a clean slate.
(5) Also, if Apple releases an x86 version of the iBook before the PB, then I wouldn't expect to see dual-core until mid- to late-2006 when the PB is updated. In fact, the only reason I can see for Apple to not release Yonah chips is because of a late and later release of the PB, which would mean that they would not want a dual-core chip just yet. However, it is my hope that Apple will use Yonah in its 1st gen laptop(s) or I will not be buying from them.
(1) If AidenShaw is correct, (unfortunately) the first MacIntels will be based on the Dothan chip. This will go into the MacMini and perhaps (God forbid) the iBook. As I've said before, the memory subsystem is weak when the 400/533 FSB is coupled with DDR2 RAM because of the increased latency found in DDR2 over DDR RAM. It is well documented that DDR 400 RAM is faster than DDR2 400 and that DDR2 533 is ONLY almost as fast as DDR 400. Let's pray that TS is wrong about Apple using DDR2 in the new PB because while the voltage may be lower, the latency is higher and Apple will most certainly use DDR2 400 if they are using Freescale's 7448 chip. DDR 400 would be a better choice for performance, but probably not for marketing.
(2) Apple could again demonstrate its ineptitude and lack of leadership by differentiating the iBook from the PowerBook line if it waited to introduce a new PB until mid to late 2006. Then Apple could place the Yonah chip in the iBook and the Merom chip in the PB. This would differentiate the two portable lines in terms of 32 bit vs 64 bit and 533MHz vs 667MHz FSB. In addition, battery life will not get any better in the Intel world until Merom is introduced. (Will the PB finally have a better battery life than the Ib?) I really hope Apple doesn't follow this logic because everyone in the PC market will be one step ahead of them, and I am tired of trailing them. Few if any PC laptops will use Dothan chips in NEW laptops in January. Also in January, Intel chipsets for laptops will begin to support 4GB RAM, and even Dell Inspirons will probably migrate to the Yonah chip. And in mid-2006 when the 64 bit craze takes root, who will sell NEW laptops with Yonah chips --anyone besides Apple??? Probably not! And how will Apple market its consumer laptops??? By selling chips one generation older than everyone else???
Ludicrous, I say.(3) The average to low-class consumer will have the privilege of being Apple's guinea pigs for its x86 migration, as they test the waters in their low end hardware. As Adobe has stated, they will not have an x86 solution until late 2006 or early 2007. So who among the power users would switch to x86 without any pro-Apps? They would be in the same position as G5 owners who needed to use VPC but had to wait a year before it was compatible.
(4) Therefore, I can see Apple waiting to release new x86 PBs until they have refined the OS to run well and have enough app.s to sell to professionals (perhaps this won't be quite as smooth as SJ claims). PB updates now (or at least really soon) would give Apple some breathing room before they move PBs to Merom's 64 bit architecture. The Merom architecture is the basis for the whole new family of Intel processors--laptop and desktop--and I imagine that Apple will want to begin its professional line of laptops with a new architecture (Yonah is the end of the old x86 architecture) and a clean slate.
(5) Also, if Apple releases an x86 version of the iBook before the PB, then I wouldn't expect to see dual-core until mid- to late-2006 when the PB is updated. In fact, the only reason I can see for Apple to not release Yonah chips is because of a late and later release of the PB, which would mean that they would not want a dual-core chip just yet. However, it is my hope that Apple will use Yonah in its 1st gen laptop(s) or I will not be buying from them.
The only way I can see a G5 PowerBook is if somehow Apple had the basic design already and just needed the CPU, basically they had a lot of it planned out maybe a side project till IBM said hey we have low power G5 cpu's now. I'd be beyond amazed if somehow Apple puts out a G5 PowerBook but down plays it (canceling the keynote in Paris for example) because of the Intel transition but thats not likely to happen.
What is with the Power Book G5 on Tuesday stuff? Is this some sort of tradition here?
What is with the Power Book G5 on Tuesday stuff? Is this some sort of tradition here?
Duff-Man says....Yes, and a very old and tired tradition too...one that should have been retired a long time ago - it stopped being even remotely amusing months and months ago.MacNoobie said:
Once again I read these threads and see people whipping themselves into a frenzy of anticipation, reading someone's "dreams" here as almost-fact...then tomorrow the whining will begin about how disappointed they all are.....oh yeah!
MacNoobie said:
Well, it's becoming a tradition for someone to bring up a powerbook G5 every time apple has an event (sometimes it me
But I think most of the regulars here have moved on.Although, it has been a theory of mine that ever since apple ditched the single processor 1.8 G5's they've been hording the chips for a PB upgrade.
I dunno. I've pretty much given up all hope and am going into tomorrow with low expecations.
powerbook911 said:
They won't hold a keynote because they don't want steve to look like an idiot. First saying that they are switching to intel becasue they don't have a G5 powerbook and then releasing one. I hope there will be a G5 pb but I doubt it
Too bad there's only going to be one product release.
Sounds like there'll only be one product release tomorrow and that looks like it's going to be a laptop upgrade.
Whatever happened to this being the year of HD? Other than the iLife apps being upgraded for HD, what new piece of hardware have they come out with to take advantage of HD?
I'm still hopeful for a 10.6" or 13.3" thin, widescreen, hi-res display on the laptops, but I was hoping they'd release a couple other products including:
Mac Home Media Center
Airport Express A/V
The Mac Mini is perfect for the hub of a home entertainment center, but it's lacking closer iPod integration and the ability to record digital content.
An A/V version of the AX would be nice so you could stream HD content from a central computer to your TV. With the H.264 codec, 54Mbps should be close to being sufficient... if not, they should increase the speed to 108 or 218Mbps like other WiFi routers are able to do now. It should then also have an HDMI output port or maybe a DVI port/adapter.
I'm also hopeful for a new portable multimedia device that supports H.264. My PSP is great, but I'd like something that'll do H.264 and is a bit smaller (same screen size, but no game buttons and stuff). The 20GB mRobe is close to the form factor I'm hoping for.
Sounds like there'll only be one product release tomorrow and that looks like it's going to be a laptop upgrade.
Whatever happened to this being the year of HD? Other than the iLife apps being upgraded for HD, what new piece of hardware have they come out with to take advantage of HD?
I'm still hopeful for a 10.6" or 13.3" thin, widescreen, hi-res display on the laptops, but I was hoping they'd release a couple other products including:
Mac Home Media Center
Airport Express A/V
The Mac Mini is perfect for the hub of a home entertainment center, but it's lacking closer iPod integration and the ability to record digital content.
An A/V version of the AX would be nice so you could stream HD content from a central computer to your TV. With the H.264 codec, 54Mbps should be close to being sufficient... if not, they should increase the speed to 108 or 218Mbps like other WiFi routers are able to do now. It should then also have an HDMI output port or maybe a DVI port/adapter.
I'm also hopeful for a new portable multimedia device that supports H.264. My PSP is great, but I'd like something that'll do H.264 and is a bit smaller (same screen size, but no game buttons and stuff). The 20GB mRobe is close to the form factor I'm hoping for.
Duff-Man said:
True. So true. It is extremely entertaining, though.
I personally am waiting for Apple to release the iPants... one day, the fabrick itself will store your MP3s or other data. Imagine being able to boot up a computer wirelessly with the clothes you're wearing.
http://www.media.mit.edu/wearables/
I am as optimistic as the next guy, but there is NO KEYNOTE. Jobs clearly wanted to release his "big" items (or small, real small, like nano) last week and is downplaying this year's expo. I cannot foresee anything but a moderate speedboost for the Pbs - even 128 graphics card seems like a stretch to me. A surprise keynote? Maybe, but I really think they are trying to keep a PB update low key. Small bump to speed, small bump to HD, maybe even RAM, and a new little feature (similar to trackpad scrolling and Sudden Motion Sensor) are my predictions. Maybe 12inch will finally get a lit keyboard... but hey, what the hell, here's to hoping im wrong. I just hope those college students havent waited in vain...