PowerMac G5, iMac G5, eMac Specs

[duffman9000]

ROTFLMAO , Once again you can depend on the incompetence of apple and all it's partners to screw things up again. So after nearly a year , almost 2 if you count the original debut of the G5. Apple once again drops the ball .

Not only did they not reach 3ghz after nearly a year, but are still the last one using AGP , as everyone else had already moved on to greener PCIe pastures. I knew i could rely on apple to blow it again , they should just quit the computer business sell OSX to M$ , make iPods and consumer electronics. Pretty much at this rate they will never catch up. I now can honestly say that I have no regrets jumping ship to AMD.

AMD and Intel will have Dual Core CPU's on store shelves by summer. I'm sure we can expect A Singel Core Athlon FX-59 3.0ghz 1MB L2 by November since the FX-55 2.8ghz 1MB L2 is expected in May.

Apple is in some seriously deep Sh*t , once those AMD/Intel Dualcore's hit the streets, If anyone has been paying attention to Anandtech , Cnet , and Tomshardware, you will see what I mean. Those performance numbers can temp even the most loyal Mac Zealot, especially the Multitasking results.

Radeon 9650 256MB.....LOL , I've never even herd of a 9650 , I know about the Radeon 9550 and 9250. This must be some new low end crap ATI is putting out. I don't get why a 9800 Pro (which it ancient now) is not standard on a 3K machine. damn apple atleast a 9600XT not some vanilla non pro 9600 crap. 256MB is nothing more then a slick marketing ploy by Card vendors to jack up the price as no 128bit 4 Pipleline card and take full advantage of anything beyond 128MB because of memory bandwidth limitations.

In order to take full advantage of a 256MB card you need atleast 8 Pipleline and 256bit Memort Interface. A prime example of this is the Geforce 6600GT it has a 128bit interface which is why it only comes in 128MB configurations.

P.S. I'm not gonna completely bash Apple , as I think the iMac upgrades are much better as compared to the PM's , however those specs should have been standard in the 1st gen iMac G5 since u can pretty much get similar stuff in $599 PC's now.

True on all counts. Can't wait for a dual core A64 without the need for a mobo upgrade (hehe intel users).
The low end is really a confusing sector with utter crap everywhere. Those last gen cards are a really mixed bag. If its a ATI card and it aint a "PRO" then its a POS. Don't care how much ram they stick on it.
I don't understand that if the vid card is so important to OS X why does Apple insist on packaging utter crap on the base pro machines. At least use PRO's for chrissakes.

 

[crawdad62]

While the powermac is a shame, the Rev B iMac is everything I have wanted. 2 ghz, BLUETOOTH, and better graphics card.

I have to agree with this. I've been waiting months now for a iMac revision. While the CPU speedbump isn't dramatic the rest of the package is pretty decent. I would have ordered the 250 GB HD upgrade and gotten more RAM. Now I can get the HD size included and add even more RAM to the total.

I'm wondering whether or not BT 2 is INCLUDED or an option. That's the question.

Regardless I'm ready...... bring it on Apple!

 

[brent1a]

it's usually fun to lurk but...

I normally don't post on such items but all this rumoring and speculation is so fun to read....I mean it took me 18 months to research and decide to convert from pc>mac (and save up enough $ to =buy a pm) and now people are going to get all their hopes up and order the next latest and greatest. Everyone seems to be forgetting that most new owners of pm's with the 6800 card JUST got theres a couple months ago when they ordered them 4 or 5 months in advance, or longer. I never understood playing this waiting game that I always read about people doing on the forums. It took me 5 weeks to get my pm 2.5 (regualr order, & I got mine before a lot of people who ordered there's months ahead of me) and I plan on using it for the next 5+ years. Glad I'm not going to order a computer at the end of this month and play the waiting game with Apple & IBM for the next 6 months on when IBM can finally pump out my own quality proc. because there will be a million more threads with people bitching about there purported ship dates and thats all the news will be about as well. eh

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

With GPU's becoming so important i think Apple needs to really work on this. I mean look a Fx5200 and a 9600 performance wise isnt much different. They are old and lower performing. I was expecting a 6200 in the next imac but we have to remember that the iMac has been riddled with video problems related to the fx5200. Thats a lot of midplanes swapped out by Apple for what is $15 part. Perhaps Apple had enough of the video problems and decided to go with 9600 just to get away from nvidia. Its still just a little bitty bump not much more. 128mb is better then 64. Still good news but a years wait for this? Im glad im not one of the ones who has been waiting for the next iMac. Yearly production runs are just to long in todays fast moving tech world.

 

[swissmann]

Pretty disappointing that they didn't make 3GHz on the PM. Doesn't the Intel Pentium 4 Extreme 840 go at 4GHz?

I was super sure I wanted to upgrade my 2003 Dual 2.0 but will have to wait and see now.

I'm in the same boat with upgrading my Dual 2 G5. It's been a long time since that promise of 3 GHz in a year was made. Of course I am sure they are trying to forget about that. If these are the Dual Core processors that makes all the difference in the world - forget about the 3 GHz thing. If they came in at Dual 2.7 Dual Core with a Blu-Ray drive I wouldn't be thinking about upgrading anymore, I'd be pulling out my wallet.

Am I missing something or is the iMac keeping the current video card? I think that a bump to 2 GHz isn't very much without a better video card. Nice improvements on the eMac line and if they could drop the price that would be great too.

 

[gate]

New PowerMac

If it's true I'm very disappointed. After all that time, 3ghz is the bare minimum. We also need more RAM than 512 MB, faster RAM than the PC3200 and the possibility to have more than 8 Gigs. At least the DVD burner is dual-layer. Let's just hope that there will be 2 double core processors in the high-end model.

I had plan to buy the high-end model but I'm not sure anymore, I think I'm gonna wait even more.

I just checked on the ATI website and I didn't find anything about the 9650 video card. Does such a card exist? And now that the 9800 is not the best one from ATI, maybe Apple could afford to put that one in the high-end model. Let's hope that we could upgrade for the 9800 PRO for a very low cost.

And there is no way I'm gonna buy a new computer with a AGP video slot. No way.

 

[crap freakboy]

One year, just one year I'd like to hear some cat-calling when Jobs releases a minor update yet sells it up.
Why o why do they continually underspec the PM's?
Sometimes it feels like theyre selling top of the line Mercs but using 1940's parts. Still love the OS though. The iMac 20" sounds nice though, but thats probably just because its an improvemnet on the crap GPu they had.

 

[duffman9000]

As dissatisfied as you sound, switch. Apple is not going to satisfy you, so you should just switch. This is how Apple has operated since Jobs returned, and since their profits and revenues keep increasing, I doubt it's going to change. Unless Apple starts using Intel/AMD hardware, they will never match the raw hardware performance. Accept it or move on, but you shouldn't cause yourself grief over Apple. It's not worth it. Despite what's said XP isn't the worst thing in the world.

Windows 95/98/ME are the worst things in the world. If you think about how many people still use those it is mind boggling.

 

[itsa]

Good enough... I'll take one!
The truth is I was in hope for more and I still am but I have been holding off for some time now and just want something...anything to happen.

 

[brent1a]

Windows 95/98/ME are the worst things in the world. If you think about how many people still use those it is mind boggling.

XP is right up there as one of the worst things as well....just because 90% of the users of the world use it doesn't make XP 'ok' it makes them uneducated about mac and when your educated about mac that makes XP crap.

 

[scu]

Well it looks like Wallstreet agrees. These are crapy updates and they will do nothing to increase the Apple sales in the next two quarters. Apple can't maintain the income growth just with iPods and Mac Mini. They really needed a kick ass Power Mac to increase sales. This whimy upgrade will keep many Power Users on the sidelines. I can now safely predict that we will not see the 3 Ghz system until Jan. 2006.

Thank YOu IBM. You suck.

 

[adamfilip]

Check out the attachment
I made that up last september I believe
im not far off

 

[bosrs1]

Not a huge increase in the top end. They must be struggling with those G5's.

I agree. I was hoping they'd FINALLY deliver on the Dual 3. I would have traded up my Dual 1.8 for that. Now I'm not sure it's worth it.

 

[FFTT]

I'm gonna say that TS may be right about processor speeds,
but have no confidence as of yet in their GPU predictions.

IF... this is mearly a PB styled clearance sale to move the existing chassis configuration, then the REAL DEAL may come in Paris.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Well since I don't really need a PM the iMac 20" looks like a great deal for me and lets hope the specs are true. I will pick one up by July now

 

[cr2sh]

Check out the attachment
I made that up last september I believe
im not far off

Why would a 3.5GHz system run a 1.5GHz fsb?

The new tiger black webpage hasa got me wondering about the casing... a gun metal g5 case would be nice.

 

[Frobozz]

I have to say that an 8% GHz increase is pretty underwhelming. I was expecting this upgrade to be much more of an architectural improvement than it is. Perhaps there are some improvements which will yield more than 8% performance on the top end? Perhaps the cache is a key factor? I think the buses will have to be HyperTransport 2.0 to maintain 1:2 ratio above 2.5 GHz, so that is (potentially) good news.

The graphics cards-- pretty lame. And no PCI-E? That's a massive mistake IMHO. I completely understand why they don't include an x850 256 as standard fare, but a 9600 is pretty much the bottom of the line for modern graphics cards. I hope their BTO options are affordable *cough*.

I think the important performance factors boil down to the combination of:

512KB cache
Faster Bus (based on HT 2 or not?)
Faster GHz
Dual core?
Dual dual core?

... and last but not least... a frickin' drop in price. I bought my dual 1GHz Quicksilver the day it came out and was top of the line for $2,499. If they no longer need liquid cooling then we may see something like $2,799 IMHO at the top end.

 

[adamfilip]

Why would a 3.5GHz system run a 1.5GHz fsb?

The new tiger black webpage hasa got me wondering about the casing... a gun metal g5 case would be nice.

for one thing the fSb is not in sync with the processor clock speed.

it doesnt have to be half it can be a third (according to Ibm documents)

they can basicly set it to whatever they want.

 

[crawdad62]

The new tiger black webpage hasa got me wondering about the casing... a gun metal g5 case would be nice.

That would be sharp looking. I bet if Apple did go that way a lot of electronic manufacturers would be scrambling. It seems like Apple set or at least is on the cutting edge of trends. Everything was black a few years ago now everything is silver. I just bought a new TV and it's silver which replaced a black one. I just got a DirecTV Tivo that's silver that replaced my old DTV box that was.... you guessed it....black.

Argh. It's hard to stay fashionable.

 

[Frobozz]

Well it looks like Wallstreet agrees. These are crapy updates and they will do nothing to increase the Apple sales in the next two quarters. Apple can't maintain the income growth just with iPods and Mac Mini. They really needed a kick ass Power Mac to increase sales. This whimy upgrade will keep many Power Users on the sidelines. I can now safely predict that we will not see the 3 Ghz system until Jan. 2006.

Thank YOu IBM. You suck.

As much as you may be upset, the PowerMac hasn't been a focus of Apple's sales strategy for years. Consumers and pro-sumers rule their financials and a poor PowerMac sales figure won't drastically impact their bottom line.

With that said, Apple's current line up is adequate for all but high end HD video work. So they do need to improve that. They need a top of the line beast machine for their professional clients. A lot of us on this forum may be clamoring for it-- but we are BY FAR in the minority.

 

[JamSoft]

Xbox Next - 3 x 3Ghz G5?

Okay, so here's my question:

Xbox Next (aka Xbox 2, aka Xbox 360 - whatever you want to call it) is going to have 3 G5's in it, all of them running at 3Ghz.

Granted, it won't ship until this fall/winter, but still, WHY CAN'T APPLE MAKE A 3Ghz G5 IN THEIR POWERMACS?


I find it sad that Microsoft will be getting 3Ghz G5's before Apple does.

Rather embarrassing

-Nate

 

[puckhead193]

Those imac updates *if true* look pretty sweet. The dual layer DVD burner is great, it about time apple offered a dual layer. The speed bumbs in the PM line are ok. I was really hopping that dual 3 GHZ would be out by now.

 

[MacSA]

The new iMacs, if the rumoured specs are correct sound pretty good, it should be very popular.

 

[Little Endian]

Difference won't be that big, what planet did you just land from. Apple has been getting Killed by AMD and Intel for what seems like forever now , and the fact that theses machines are single coire doesn't help the matter either.

I don't know what benchmarks you were looking at , but with the expection of games , just about every other program saw an increase from 25%-50% DVD Shrink times were almost cut in half and once code becomes optimized over the next 12-18 months that gap will only get bigger...much bigger.

Umm.... maybe you had better get a reality check.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2388&p=12

The Pentium Extreme 840 running with Dual Cores @ 3.2Ghz encodes a DVD in 7.4 Minutes. My Dual 2.5Ghz G5 can encode a DVD in about 8-12 minutes. Still faster than a single Athlon 64FX-55 and just a couple minutes slower than 700Mhz faster Dual Cored 3.2Ghz Pentium Extreme 840. I would guess that a Dual Core or Dual Processor G5 @ 2.7Ghz would come even closer in score to the Extreme Edition 840 and most Certainly match or beat a 2.8Ghz Dual Core Pentum D.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2388&p=9

I can also convert a 12Mb .wav file to MP3 192KBs with itunes 4.7 in under 5 seconds while the Dual Core Pentium Exreme 840 takes 29 seconds? Maybe this is an unfair test though since it's Apple software on an Apple Machine. However My DVD compress was done with DVD2OneX which is not Highly optimized for SMP.

http://barefeats.com/macvpc.html

Here is a link of how the Dual 2.5Ghz G5 compares to the Dual Processor Opteron 252 clocked at 2.6Ghz, Dual Xeon @ 3.4Ghz and an Athlon FX55.
As you can see the Dual Processor G5 matches or beats the PCs in almost every scenario. The Pentium Extreme 840 and Pentium D are not much faster if at all in most scenarios than a Dual Opteron or Xeon system. Also keep in mind that Tiger is supposed to offer a nice speed bump in most areas and these tests were done under Panther 10.3

I do admit though that the Mac performs horribly at Games in comparison to the newest PCs but hopefully that Gap will become smaller with Tiger and future driver updates. In most things besides Games the G5 PowerMacs can compare reasonably well with top of the line PCs.

I also Don't think you quite understand that having two single cored Processors Performance wise is almost the same as a Single Processor with two cores assuming similar clock speeds and Core. So a Power Mac with two seperate chips running at 2.7Ghz should perform on par or beat a Single Pentium chip with two cores running at 2.8Ghz. Remember the G5 is still faster clock for clock than even the newest Pentium Cores. The Pentiums Two cores share an 800Mhz Bus as well while the 2.7Ghz G5 machine is supposed to have two independent busses running at 1.35Ghz. If you were talking about Dual Processor Dual Cored PC's you would have some point of validity with Quad core. However the Intel Extreme and D as well as the upcoming Dual Core Athon only support one Dual Core Chip. Sure the Dual Core AMD Athlon is still socket 939 however it still supports only one Dual Cored Chip until the Dual Cored Opteron 265/275 series is available at a whopping $850-$1300 per Dual Cored Chip. So one can have a quad cored Opteron for about $2000-$3000 just for the CPUs and MOBO as most A64 and FX support only one 939 socket.

At the rate we are going we most certainly will see a Quad Cored 970 MP setup available from Apple hopefully by the end of the year. Apple's CHUD tools allready support controls for a Dual Processor Dual Cored system. I think you underestimate how far the Mac has come within the past couple of years.

 

[ts1973]

The upgrade is not much to shout home about, but as many people say, will be adequate to get all but the most demanding jobs done.

Anyway, because of the 512kb in stead of 1Mb cache per processor that has been mentioned, I don't believe the machines will be dual core, which is a shame of course.

PS : Can someone explain me why having 512kb cache per processor is better than 512kb per core (or in the dual core world : 1Mb per processor). I believe there were some people mentioning this on one of the previous pages).