PowerMacs and PowerBooks Delays?

[hayesk]

If I have to wait more than one more month....I will implode. I want me new PM G5 now! 😱

So buy one now. What will a slightly faster PM G5 do for you that the current one won't?

I bought a 1GHz PB G4 on the weekend. I am more satisfied with my decision every day. I'd rather spend my time using a Mac than waiting for a new model. There will always be something better coming out - the only reason I can see wiating is if the current models can't do something you need it to.

 

[windowsblowsass]

This is the problem. EVERYONE has been assuming that the 90nm part should run cooler then the earlier chip, yet I think that is assuming too much. Assuming this, then yes...Powerbook G5's may yet be close on the horizon....yet my bet is Apple wants a G5 Powerbook to be as fast as a desktop and quite possibly be the first EVER to bring out a dual processor laptop. This is DEFINITELY something Apple would LOVE to do as it's a virtual impossibility with PC hardware and close to that with the G5. Apple likes to Think Different and I as well as many others on the net have been hoping for a portable that works as fast as the desktop with no compromises. This includes the first ever portable SMP system.

Its not assuming ibm even said that the fx is coller than the normal 970

 

[scem0]

I agree! I stopped waiting and just got a great deal on the disontinued G5 1.8 - and I LOVE it!!!!!! No more waiting - and even if and when the New Revision B G%'s come out - they wont be "that much" faster then what I have!

I hope with all my heart that you are wrong.

And I mean that in a good way 🙂.

scem0

 

[clr900]

So buy one now. What will a slightly faster PM G5 do for you that the current one won't?

I bought a 1GHz PB G4 on the weekend. I am more satisfied with my decision every day. I'd rather spend my time using a Mac than waiting for a new model. There will always be something better coming out - the only reason I can see wiating is if the current models can't do something you need it to.

I'm not going to buy something that I know will be cheaper in a very short amount of time, I would rather wait and spend the same amount and get something newer and faster, maybe a 2nd optical drive or 9800 standard? If I knew it would be more like 6 months then I wouldn't wait but I have a strong feeling March is the month.

 

[Frobozz]

I don't see how Apple could continue selling a laptop that is seven or eight months old with no price reduction and no upgrades. If the Powerbook delays have some truth to them, I think we'll see a price drop.

You know, a price drop would certinaly make me buy a current generation 1.25 Ghz 15 inch... that's a pretty nice laptop. I'm not looking to replace my desktop so price is a big point of the equation for me.

 

[oingoboingo]

well, this just soldifies my decision to sell my 12" and buy a 15"...

although i must say that the first revision of powermac g5's went off without a technological hitch, i'm not so sure that the powerbook g5's will switch to a g5 as fluidly... i WILL be the first in line for the rev. b g5 pb, i can tell you that.

Uhhh...screeching power supplies...the infamous 'Black Screen of Death' from cold boots...the front headphone jack isn't even implemented properly and doesn't cancel out the output from the rear audio jack when headphones are plugged in. I wouldn't say the G5 rollout happened without a hitch...my first one was DOA, and my second (current) one suffers intermittently from Black Screen of Death.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

This is the problem. EVERYONE has been assuming that the 90nm part should run cooler then the earlier chip, yet I think that is assuming too much. Assuming this, then yes...Powerbook G5's may yet be close on the horizon....yet my bet is Apple wants a G5 Powerbook to be as fast as a desktop and quite possibly be the first EVER to bring out a dual processor laptop. This is DEFINITELY something Apple would LOVE to do as it's a virtual impossibility with PC hardware and close to that with the G5. Apple likes to Think Different and I as well as many others on the net have been hoping for a portable that works as fast as the desktop with no compromises. This includes the first ever portable SMP system.

This is what goes through my mind coming from an Mech. Engineering perspective.


Known: Conductive Heat Transfer clearly shows that the more current required to power a surface area the greater amount of heat that black body surface will emit.

Assumptions: SMP in the form of dual or quad processor workstations. Single or Dual SMP laptops are a requirement for the business model.

Experimentations: The Convective Heat Transfer of this volumetric housing for the Workstation will require a flow increase from fans to move the increased amount of conductive heat transfer these processors will produce. For a single CPU this is not an issue because the system will emit lower amounts of heat dissipation than the prior 970 CPU.

The cost of these systems must be the same or less than their predecessors at similiar configurations, in order to be competitive within the market.

The time to market cannot be delayed too long in order to maintain a positive market perception.

Suppliers have to be able to provide parts in quantities that are on par or greater than those supplied for the current system configurations, assuming a market growth curve.

Acceptable heat measurements have to be tested, in various work environments to determine the feasibility of hardware designs that will house these new CPUs.

In the end, if the market pressure to roll out new systems supercedes the option of Quad Processor Systems than a fallback design has to be rolled out, in place of the desired configuration, until such systems exceed the Factors of Safety (FS) required of them for end user consumption.

 

[0 and A ai]

If this keeps up when will we see the 3ghz machines?

end of march +6 months is end of september...steve jobs said end of summer. i guess they could announce end of summer and ship october.

on a side note...i liked theold forums better

 

[ImAlwaysRight]

Steve promised 3 GHz at the time of the 2 GHz release.

LOL, are we all going to be 😱 shocked 😱 if Steve is unable to keep this promise of 3 GHz by summer 2004? I know I won't be. Pretty bold (a.k.a. foolish) to make a promise like this so far in advance. IBM isn't Motorola yada yada yada -- you can sing this tune -- but when it comes down to it, faster G5 computers are based on more than just the CPU. The real world sometimes throws you a curve ball. Maybe the day before the fall equinox we will have an ANNOUNCEMENT regarding 3.0 G5's, but I've doubted all along we'll see any dual 3.0 G5's in consumer's hands in August/early Sept. 2004. And you can quote me on that!

My dual 2.0 G5 is gonna be king for a little bit longer. No complainin' from me. 😀

 

[Frobozz]

I understand the line of reasoning that says the 970FX is much cooler running than the 970, and is cooler than or equal to the G4, but there may well be other heat issues on the motherboard or elsewhere that make it difficult for Apple to engineer into a PB.

I tend to agree. I think that it's obvious the 970FX is on par with the G4 for heat generation... but what are the other key differences in a G4 design, versus a G5 design? The motherboard. Even if the hard drives are the same, you have to contend with the heat generated by a new set of chips... including a HyperTransport bus speed that could be as high as 800 Mhz (if the chip is 1.6 GHz and the do a 2-to-1 ratio.)

That's GOT to generate a lot more heat than the puny 167 MHz used on the G4 today. I think you're right by saying it isn't just the chips causing heat problems.

 

[Vlade]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but all of these cooling issues are total BS. The pentium 4 3.4GHZ EE machine runs at over 100 watts for the CPU alone, and a standard HSF will cool it just fine, so why can't apple cool 2 2GHZ machines at 25 watts each with their GIANT heat sinks. The die sizes aren't that much different, so don't try to tell me the heat is more dense on the 970s.

The Hard drives need better fans or a small heat sink, that has nothing to do with the CPUs because they are separated.

 

[Photorun]

Wait, so it's harder to cool a cooler machine than a hotter one?! 😕

 

[Photorun]

Uhhh...screeching power supplies...the infamous 'Black Screen of Death' from cold boots...the front headphone jack isn't even implemented properly and doesn't cancel out the output from the rear audio jack when headphones are plugged in. I wouldn't say the G5 rollout happened without a hitch...my first one was DOA, and my second (current) one suffers intermittently from Black Screen of Death.

You and how many others? I know 42 G5 2.0 machines with nary one with a glitch at an illustration design house, I have seven friends with G5s, one used to have this weird intermittant fan chirp but it's gone almost inaudable. I own a G5 1.8 DP, not a single problem, only one odd crash in a few months of use but I use some high end audio stuff that was buggy back on a G4. Sorry to hear you have bad luck, but I wouldn't say it's a blanket statement at all.

 

[Frobozz]

LOL, are we all going to be 😱 shocked 😱 if Steve is unable to keep this promise of 3 GHz by summer 2004? I know I won't be. Pretty bold (a.k.a. foolish) to make a promise like this so far in advance

I'd agree with you if this wasn't Steve Jobs. But it is. He's NEVER said something like this before. He had to know, with a HUGE amount of conservative spin, that he could EASILY get to 3.0 GHz by this summer. My honest guess, based on rumors from numerous sources, is that IBM was demoing pre-production samples of 3.4 GHz 975 generation chips late last year. Steve had to know in June that this would b the case, and hap probably been privy to the prototypes at the time. IBM rarely slips on deadlines, so the only ball to drop is on his own team's shoulders.

I think it's safe to say that, not later than September, we will have delivery of dual 3.0 GHz or greater PowerMacs. I don't doubt it one iota.

 

[Grimace]

I'm not sure if I see the point for dual bays. A few disc-disc transfers/copies etc., but they could almost just as easily do without.

 

[HiRez]

blah

 

[HiRez]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but all of these cooling issues are total BS. The pentium 4 3.4GHZ EE machine runs at over 100 watts for the CPU alone, and a standard HSF will cool it just fine, so why can't apple cool 2 2GHZ machines at 25 watts each with their GIANT heat sinks. The die sizes aren't that much different, so don't try to tell me the heat is more dense on the 970s.

P4EE die size: 237mm^2
970fx die size: 60mm^2

And the 100 watts for the P4 is max, 25 watts for a 970fx would be nominal, max is something like 50-55 watts (each).

 

[Porshuh944turbo]

You'd think that if they can cool the new chips in the xserve 1U enclosure, then it'd be no *sweat* 🙄 to put it in the desktop even at higher clock speeds! 😱

 

[eSnow]

That doesn't make sense to me!

The 970 FX should produce less heat at 2 GHZ, so they could produce the same heat at 2.5 Ghz. They are already used in the new Xserves at 2.0 ghz and there they manage to cool them in a 1U unit!!

Unless, of course, they have redesigned the case to allow for two optical and four hard drives. And/or hotter graphics cards.

It is known that Apple had its fill of problems with the placement of HDs in the RevA G5 tower leading to overheating disks and consequently a rearrangement of temperature sensors. Why should this not happen again?

 

[whookam]

What will a slightly faster PM G5 do for you that the current one won't?
QUOTE]

Nothing, it'll just do it faster 😉

 

[mcs37]

DUAL CPU laptop?
What at under 1" you must be joking, what about your battery life, it isnt Apple to do this.

A dual CPU laptop is totally within the limits of Apple's capabilities. I would propose that its second CPU shut down when running on battery, however, to save power. How nice would it be to have an SMP laptop when plugged in? Totally amazing! And if they are using a liquid cooling system, no more fans!

All we need to do is get some MRAM and we'll be in business. If only someone could get rid of spinning magnetic disks, though...

 

[army_guy]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but all of these cooling issues are total BS. The pentium 4 3.4GHZ EE machine runs at over 100 watts for the CPU alone, and a standard HSF will cool it just fine, so why can't apple cool 2 2GHZ machines at 25 watts each with their GIANT heat sinks. The die sizes aren't that much different, so don't try to tell me the heat is more dense on the 970s.

The Hard drives need better fans or a small heat sink, that has nothing to do with the CPUs because they are separated.

The standard cooler will run the CPU at 65 Degrees C when idle and roughly 75 when under load thats damn hot considering the use of a heatsink that big and a fan thats as load as a jet engine (45-55db's). Really you liquid cool the b##stard and run in in silence I say, like I said air-cooling is dead. Apple is concerned with the noise I think.

 

[phonic pol]

yet my bet is Apple wants a G5 Powerbook to be as fast as a desktop and quite possibly be the first EVER to bring out a dual processor laptop. This is DEFINITELY something Apple would LOVE to do as it's a virtual impossibility with PC hardware and close to that with the G5. Apple likes to Think Different and I as well as many others on the net have been hoping for a portable that works as fast as the desktop with no compromises. This includes the first ever portable SMP system.[/QUOTE]



Nice thought but marketable suicide! What use would a powermac be if you could have the same performance as a portable!?!

 

[jelloshotsrule]

Nice thought but marketable suicide! What use would a powermac be if you could have the same performance as a portable!?!

whether or not the prediction is right.... the dual laptop would obviously be vastly more expensive, and would probably have a slower bus speed, lesser graphics, less expansion, less ram capabilities, etc.. so not necessarily suicide....

 

[gorkonapple]

Dont forget that powerbook will not have the same number of fans as the Xserve. As for the 90nm, as I said before they are more difficult to cool due to the smaller contact area hence even though they dissipate less heat they will run at higher core temperatures. The solution is to use bigger heatsinks or faster fans hence this could be one of the reasons for the delays though I would of thought Apple would have it sorted allready if they wanted faster CPUS.

There is no 60nm its 65nm, the cooling problem is much worse here.

Thank you! I was waiting for someone like this. Most everyone on here has been whining...I want my G5 PB......the 90 nm runs cooler so I should have it....

These folks know diddly squat about engineering. Same goes for the ones stating things like Dual Processor laptops are out of the question. These chips are smaller then the old one and harder to get a good heat conductive connection to the processor. Ergo you have to come up with new ways of cooling it in a small package. In a PB, your going to have ONE fan. No more, no less. People whine when their G4's fan is running all of the time...what happens when the G5 can't run without it? This is WHY the G5 Powerbook isn't out. You can't just drop the new chip in the machine. The whole thing needs to be reengineered. If this was the case, then we'd truely have BYO(Build Your Own) laptops. Sure if you have the budget, you can build your own as a business, but as a private person it's too cost prohibitive. This is even mroe true when it comes to Apple. Not only must it work for us computer geeks, but it must work for grandma too. If Grandma burns her thighs on her G5 Powerbook, they will have lawsuits....all I have to say is....be patient. Good things come to those who wait.