The iMac Pro is not a normal desktop, it’s an all-in-one. The cooling system can dissipate somewhere around 400-500 Watts 🤷♂️
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Previously Reliable Leaker CoinX Suggests New iMac and Mac Mini Models Are Coming Soon
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I didn't say iMac Pro is a normal desktop. Read it again.
Also, do you know how big the graphic card is? There is a reason why the cooler for GPU is huge especially for 300W graphic cards. Even for CPU requires a huge cooler if you want a better performance. If you ever built desktops, you already know that all in one is very limited.
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Well if Intel had been able to execute remotely to plan, we'd probably be on 5-7nm parts now with desktop TDPs in the mid-to-low double digits and the cooling system would be fine for that.
Still, it is pathetic as iMac never changed for more than 8 years in terms of both inner and outer design.
Actually, you did, although I now know you did not intend to. (When you say “other”, you’re including the first, named item as a member of the group that follows the word “other”.)
So what you are saying is that all-in-ones like iMac Pro have cooling system limitations compared to NORMAL desktops. Which of course is true 🙂
But that wasn’t the point @smulji was making: “The thermal cooling system in the iMac Pro is much better than the 27" iMac” and that it should be used in the non-Pro iMacs, too.
Point being, that despite the limitations of the all-in-one form factor, the iMac Pro cooling system would be able to handle the heat of a non-Pro iMac quite nicely.
I have the duty to debunk every argument from sublunar
Apple never cares to prevent Hackintosh-ers crowd from running macOS, FYI since macOS Sierra by first time magically Hackintosh-ers can run macOS on AMD, even now there's an online community specific for AMD Hackintoshs www amdmac com, Even assuming Apple actually want to kickoff Hackintoshs, why they do the opposite testing (and releasing) beta driver's for AMD APUs ? This solely debunk your thesis, it's just a personal bias.
ASRock is using Intel Titan ridge tb3, no mess TB3(usb4) it's an open STD and an independent business unit at intel, as x550/i210 nic are the most popular nic in AMD motherboard, even if Apple opts for an AMD grown USB4 it do not need drivers change as USB 4(tb3) it's also a driver specification, before someone's release it's own USB4 header it has to be driver compatible with tb3 STD.
Using Intel CPU means Apple has to buy and integrate pcie muxers, besides cost muxers add latency to the hardware attached to it, applications like 8K vídeo capture are very sensitive to this latency.
Better and cheaper and cleaner not using CPUs that need muxers.
The cheese grater new Mac pro (aka MP late 19) and the Pro Display HDR with it's peculiar design with holes for increased airflow, are a clear evidence Apple is departing from the idea about shape over performance priority, to reliability and performance with style.
Thus the days for Mac having thermal throttling are numbered.
It's users matter to find compatible RAM, retailers as OWC will be happy to find it and sell the right kits.
This it's very supine, engineering AMD CPU in Mac ecosystem need no change in macOS neither enforce developers to recompile (and sometimes rewrite) it's apps for an all different CPU. Same way, engineering motherboard for AMD CPU it's not different than doing for each new Intel iteration.
Mac Pro is not that ego machine people use to buy as pride trophy, are machines that pays itself over the time doing heavy dark work, launching an iMac Pro 5K mini-led with 64 core Threadripper and Navi 23 GPU, won't care those studios that needs 4 Navi 23, they care about AMD and apple release for that GPU (actual reason to buy a Mac Pro), may eat market for programmers most likely, but unlikely to hold studios buying Mac Pro s , even an iMac Pro won't run run workloads that requires week at full throttle 24/7 rendering or doing deep learning or whatever.
This is actually the reason for leaving Intel as supplier, intel csbt even deliver now the products already on backlog without delay.
Switching to AMD, not just means scalability, as and for the next 3 years at least will keep the performance efficiency cost crown, there's also another reason, supply chain, AMD manufactures it's chiplets using the same TSMC 7nm process as Apple, Apple buy TSMC production in excess (that ussulay resell if not needed) for iPhone's iPad and t2 SOC, these unused waffers could be reassigned to AMD in order to keep stable the supply chain in case of high demand, instead having to wait for availability or resell exedent waffers.
An 6k iMac Pro yes unaffordable, undermining Mac Pro? Unlikely, not toys, with few exceptions people buy those right to make money on it, instead to show as pride trophy.
You even didn't read about the AMD APUs Apple is testing, FYI (take time on Google reading about, to avoid being ashamed by ignorance), Jusy to name a single APU: Renoir, it comes in mobile and desktop SKU, from 4 to 8 core in mobile and from 8 to 16 in desktop, both having Navi GPU, higher end desktop SKU having Navi 23, as powerful as a rtx2070 or 2080 maybe. Both fits inside a laptop, and likely inside a Mac mini.
www.google.com
From Picasso to Renoir and van Gogh.3400g it's an low-end Apu, AMD even has flexibility to develop semi-custom product as the new APU driving the new Xbox and PS5, Yes the future iMac and Mac mini could accommodate the same compute-graphic power, while leaving behind the poor under powered not up for gaming shadow it has since the Ive era.
Where the current Mac mini GPU gets it's ram? And FYI AMD semi-custom Apu gloriously can be ordered having discrete GPU ram, ddr5 or hbm.
Before being ashamed again, take your time to support your argument on both reliable and informed sources, not biased ones.
Apple never cares to prevent Hackintosh-ers crowd from running macOS, FYI since macOS Sierra by first time magically Hackintosh-ers can run macOS on AMD, even now there's an online community specific for AMD Hackintoshs www amdmac com, Even assuming Apple actually want to kickoff Hackintoshs, why they do the opposite testing (and releasing) beta driver's for AMD APUs ? This solely debunk your thesis, it's just a personal bias.
ASRock is using Intel Titan ridge tb3, no mess TB3(usb4) it's an open STD and an independent business unit at intel, as x550/i210 nic are the most popular nic in AMD motherboard, even if Apple opts for an AMD grown USB4 it do not need drivers change as USB 4(tb3) it's also a driver specification, before someone's release it's own USB4 header it has to be driver compatible with tb3 STD.
Using Intel CPU means Apple has to buy and integrate pcie muxers, besides cost muxers add latency to the hardware attached to it, applications like 8K vídeo capture are very sensitive to this latency.
Better and cheaper and cleaner not using CPUs that need muxers.
The cheese grater new Mac pro (aka MP late 19) and the Pro Display HDR with it's peculiar design with holes for increased airflow, are a clear evidence Apple is departing from the idea about shape over performance priority, to reliability and performance with style.
Thus the days for Mac having thermal throttling are numbered.
It's users matter to find compatible RAM, retailers as OWC will be happy to find it and sell the right kits.
This it's very supine, engineering AMD CPU in Mac ecosystem need no change in macOS neither enforce developers to recompile (and sometimes rewrite) it's apps for an all different CPU. Same way, engineering motherboard for AMD CPU it's not different than doing for each new Intel iteration.
Mac Pro is not that ego machine people use to buy as pride trophy, are machines that pays itself over the time doing heavy dark work, launching an iMac Pro 5K mini-led with 64 core Threadripper and Navi 23 GPU, won't care those studios that needs 4 Navi 23, they care about AMD and apple release for that GPU (actual reason to buy a Mac Pro), may eat market for programmers most likely, but unlikely to hold studios buying Mac Pro s , even an iMac Pro won't run run workloads that requires week at full throttle 24/7 rendering or doing deep learning or whatever.
This is actually the reason for leaving Intel as supplier, intel csbt even deliver now the products already on backlog without delay.
Switching to AMD, not just means scalability, as and for the next 3 years at least will keep the performance efficiency cost crown, there's also another reason, supply chain, AMD manufactures it's chiplets using the same TSMC 7nm process as Apple, Apple buy TSMC production in excess (that ussulay resell if not needed) for iPhone's iPad and t2 SOC, these unused waffers could be reassigned to AMD in order to keep stable the supply chain in case of high demand, instead having to wait for availability or resell exedent waffers.
An 6k iMac Pro yes unaffordable, undermining Mac Pro? Unlikely, not toys, with few exceptions people buy those right to make money on it, instead to show as pride trophy.
You even didn't read about the AMD APUs Apple is testing, FYI (take time on Google reading about, to avoid being ashamed by ignorance), Jusy to name a single APU: Renoir, it comes in mobile and desktop SKU, from 4 to 8 core in mobile and from 8 to 16 in desktop, both having Navi GPU, higher end desktop SKU having Navi 23, as powerful as a rtx2070 or 2080 maybe. Both fits inside a laptop, and likely inside a Mac mini.
Apple May Be Testing Its Macs with AMD CPUs, New Snippets Reveal - Could Be the New Rumored Gaming Machine
Future Macs might be treated to AMD chips from Apple, according to new code snippets, and this could even be the rumored gaming machine
From Picasso to Renoir and van Gogh.3400g it's an low-end Apu, AMD even has flexibility to develop semi-custom product as the new APU driving the new Xbox and PS5, Yes the future iMac and Mac mini could accommodate the same compute-graphic power, while leaving behind the poor under powered not up for gaming shadow it has since the Ive era.
Where the current Mac mini GPU gets it's ram? And FYI AMD semi-custom Apu gloriously can be ordered having discrete GPU ram, ddr5 or hbm.
Before being ashamed again, take your time to support your argument on both reliable and informed sources, not biased ones.
Still, even iMac Pro has a limitation and it's not what people wanted to have as a workstation computer. For better cooling than iMac, you lose RAM upgradability which is a huge issue.
It would be much better if Apple makes a cheaper modular desktop instead of using 8 years old iMac.
We need thicker bezels, keeping the 10+ design and staying on 27” inch models, right Tim?
On the serious note I think they’ll introduce AMD CPUs that are an answer to failing Intel that has so many bugs that after software patching would make the Mac slower.
The screen size would be 32” but the bezels would be just 20% thinner as Tim 👩🍳 likes to keep things dated and vintage and please share holders and doesn’t see where the competition is at this level.
We’re going to stay with dated designs for a long time until all what Apple do would be social justice events, health services and TV shows and yes Phones.
Want a computer - get an iPad an watch TV shows. Subscriptions, subscriptions, subscriptions!
We should create movement that wants the government to separate Apple Computers from Apple Tablets and Phones and Apple Services. We should ask Tim to leave so that Apple Computers could put people that would release a new modern looking computer and please those who still use computers!
Fire Tim!
On the serious note I think they’ll introduce AMD CPUs that are an answer to failing Intel that has so many bugs that after software patching would make the Mac slower.
The screen size would be 32” but the bezels would be just 20% thinner as Tim 👩🍳 likes to keep things dated and vintage and please share holders and doesn’t see where the competition is at this level.
We’re going to stay with dated designs for a long time until all what Apple do would be social justice events, health services and TV shows and yes Phones.
Want a computer - get an iPad an watch TV shows. Subscriptions, subscriptions, subscriptions!
We should create movement that wants the government to separate Apple Computers from Apple Tablets and Phones and Apple Services. We should ask Tim to leave so that Apple Computers could put people that would release a new modern looking computer and please those who still use computers!
Fire Tim!
While I respect (and agree) with your wish, this thread is about desktop machines. Please, let’s not get off topic - the desktops need some love too
I can express whatever thought I wish. It is not off topic. They are releasing a new machine, and I expressed which machine I wish they'd release next. Surprising that bugged you enough to make a comment about it. Strange.
You know his job isn’t to satisfy your own personal computing fetishes, right?
I'm not going to get into politics or gun control because this isn't the thread or forum for that topic. My point is allowing customers to choose is never a bad thing. If Apple had a floppy disk as a choice how is this bad? Consumers having more choices is never a bad thing IMO. If you don't want or like it then don't buy it. Maybe someone else needs or wants that. Don't be that elitist in the tech community that looks down on others for choosing or even being allowed to choose something you wouldn't buy. There's a long list of hardware and software that gives me the feeling of fingernails on chalkboard if I have to use it. This doesn't mean I don't feel others should be allowed to choose what they like or need.ROFL! You've just summed up whats wrong with USA in one post. Hilarious, made me laugh.
I think you missed what the intent of the guy (and zillion others) was but seeing that you are from good ole ...... lets just safe the time. Otherwise it will be the same like talking about guns.
So yeah, keep your HDD. I guess you feel the same about floppy disc?
Thanks for the laugh though, it was what I needed
This being said I wouldn't personally buy any computer with a spinning drive for the OS so if Apple made it a requirement rather than a choice I would be very upset.
Because then we’d all still be stuck with software distributed on floppy disks; developers will always support the lowest common denominator and not support the new, optional, “choice” thing.
The fetish is the fact that Tim is selling 10+ year old design and the all-in-one has the thickest bezels, significantly more thicker than any competitor out there.
I have no personal fetishes other than Tim being forced out of Apple so that the design team could do their job and release a modern looking iMac that I could purchase.
The new 32" iMac would have again the thickest bezels and would stay on that 10+ year old design, the bezels would be slightly thinner, but still the thickest.
All stated above are proven facts, not opinions.
Jony Eve left Apple as Tim forced the design team to hold new designs in order to increase the profit margins. That was well covered by one of the most authoritative media out there.
Now my personal opinion and fetish - I would want Tim to be thrown out of Apple so that Apple could focus on making modern computers cool again.
The best thing for Apple board of directors would be to fire Tim, he's putting his own interest and the interest of the investors for the short term upfront from the consumers.
no, that was Steves Jobs job
Tim Cook is all about the shareholders
Tim is the best for Apple as an business point of view
Steve used to be about the product
Yes, Steve Jobs had this great iMac design when he was alive and 10+ years later Tim Cook is still selling the same old iMac design with the thickest bezels comparing to any all-in-one or monitor on the market.
Let's start a movement to request Tim Cook out of Apple so that the design team could finally push products that look modern!
The new iMac would still have very thick bezels and the thickest bezels comparing to all other competitors on the market!
After looking at the title of the this thread, and the subject of the tweet, which only mentions iMac and Mac mini, I felt that talking about laptops was off topic. There are so many other threads dedicated to them - many of which I follow. I don’t think that’s strange. If you do, I can live with that.
I specifically tried to word my post as nicely as I could. I didn’t want to offend you.
“All stated above are proven facts, not opinions” - I think you might have those two terms confused.
As for your argument that Tim is “putting the interest of the investors for the short term upfront from the consumers,” Tim has been in charge for quite awhile, and Apple, and its investors, have done wonderfully in that time period.
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Nobody but you and a few complainers cares if the machines “look modern.” We care about what the machines do.
I agree, people should have a choice but not when it cripples advancements. Keep the old model for those that want it and move on. Otherwise we would never got rid off CD drives which kept us going forward to slimmer laptops we have now etc.
HDD are dead. They are now used in specific market (backups, raids, large storages etc.) but not in a consumer/prosumer product. So in this case for example, I can't walk into an Apple store and walk out with a SSD iMac because Apple stocks only HDD ones. So ancient technology is still limiting me from getting it and I have to order online and wait for it to be delivered.
Its not a big deal but a small example.
I'm all up for choice but it stupid to keep a choice just for the sake of it. HDD is dead, lets move on and use HDD in other areas before we slowly kill those too.
I have HDD at home, I use them as external backups etc. I also plan to buy some raid box or some NAS with HDD. I'm ok with that, but don't just keep them in the products like iMac. All other products are SSDs so iMac should be too. In fact, it would also make the technology cheaper sooner
Regardless, no hdd please.
HDD are dead. They are now used in specific market (backups, raids, large storages etc.) but not in a consumer/prosumer product. So in this case for example, I can't walk into an Apple store and walk out with a SSD iMac because Apple stocks only HDD ones. So ancient technology is still limiting me from getting it and I have to order online and wait for it to be delivered.
Its not a big deal but a small example.
I'm all up for choice but it stupid to keep a choice just for the sake of it. HDD is dead, lets move on and use HDD in other areas before we slowly kill those too.
I have HDD at home, I use them as external backups etc. I also plan to buy some raid box or some NAS with HDD. I'm ok with that, but don't just keep them in the products like iMac. All other products are SSDs so iMac should be too. In fact, it would also make the technology cheaper sooner
Regardless, no hdd please.
I'll agree with you that they should stock SSD models but I'm a bit confused how offering a HD as an option "cripples advancements". I'll straight up say it's dumb IMO that they don't have one in stock but I think it's a stretch to blame this on the HD being an option. By this logic having any choice other than the very top end model cripples advancements.I agree, people should have a choice but not when it cripples advancements. Keep the old model for those that want it and move on. Otherwise we would never got rid off CD drives which kept us going forward to slimmer laptops we have now etc.
HDD are dead. They are now used in specific market (backups, raids, large storages etc.) but not in a consumer/prosumer product. So in this case for example, I can't walk into an Apple store and walk out with a SSD iMac because Apple stocks only HDD ones. So ancient technology is still limiting me from getting it and I have to order online and wait for it to be delivered.
Its not a big deal but a small example.
I'm all up for choice but it stupid to keep a choice just for the sake of it. HDD is dead, lets move on and use HDD in other areas before we slowly kill those too.
I have HDD at home, I use them as external backups etc. I also plan to buy some raid box or some NAS with HDD. I'm ok with that, but don't just keep them in the products like iMac. All other products are SSDs so iMac should be too. In fact, it would also make the technology cheaper sooner
Regardless, no hdd please.
Apple customers all over the web, including this site, 9to5Mac and YouTube all mention criticism of Apple having giant thick bezels and using a 10+ year old design for the iMac.
If you claim you don't see it, then you work for Apple or defend the status quo as Apple is part of your ego.
Apple is not part of my ego, as a customer I express my feedback towards decisions that I find wrong.
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For those who left behind Mac Pro once iMacs became powerful enough to meet their requirements, iMac Pro is the perfect upgrade path. Those who need or want a tower desktop have an excellent, affordable solution with Mac Pro.
You may not think there is sufficient demand from pros to justify both iMac Pro and Mac Pro, but Apple knows otherwise.
If Apple made a mid-tower, Core-X, four PCIe slot, four DIMM slot version of the Mac Pro, they would save maybe $300-500 in BOM cost, while increasing other costs. You’d still be looking at a $5,000+ machine.
It's very easy to see, though.
The iMac Pro is all-SSD, and that allowed them to make various design simplifications that ultimately led to a much better cooling system. In contrast, the regular iMac still needs to allow for socketing an HDD, making the entire design more complicated and the cooling system worse.
Could Apple make a cooling system as good as the iMac Pro's while allowing HDDs? Sure. But only with other compromises, such as making the entire device thicker.
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Yeah, sorry, I got the naming wrong. I thought they had incremented the first digit between generations; instead, the first digit is the 'tier', and the second is the generation. The iMac Pro could move to 2200, and presumably, a Cooper Lake variant would be the 2300. Depending on when that ships, they might skip the 2200 altogether.
I guess? But there were 65W S-series before, and Apple opted against those in favor of the B.
If they can simply use the S, why was there no Coffee Lake Refresh Mac mini?
You’re being utterly ridiculous. Do you understand what makes Tim Cook the most successful CEO in history? One trillion dollars.
Tim Cook Has Increased Apple’s Value by More Than $1 Trillion Since Replacing Steve Jobs. No Other CEO Can Say That.
A substantial portion of Apple’s $1 trillion run has unfolded over the past 12 months. Apple shares sport a year-to-date gain of 85%, increasing the company’s market cap by close to $600 billion.
www.barrons.com
The fact that Cook’s Apple has given customers so many great products has propelled Apple to its current success.
Apple’s board of directors is quite aware of exactly how loyal and satisfied Apple’s customers are. And Apple has benefited in the form of record revenues, profits and investor confidence.
The board is absolutely thrilled with Tim Cook’s performance. If you think they’re going to fire him because the iMac’s design—truly timeless, and one of Ive’s hallmark achievements—hasn’t been refreshed in 7 years, you couldn’t possibly be more wrong.
Whether you, other forum posters or some techTubers think you need thinner bezels is completely irrelevant to Apple or Tim Cook. They could not possibly care less. Complain away 🤷♂️
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There you go, the new 2020 mac mini price start at just $599
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I can not understand one thing. Many here dream of increasing the iMac display to 30-32", but why? Is 27" really not enough today and why?
In addition, do not forget that the resolution of such a monitor as in 6K is much higher and this will give even more work to not-the-strongest GPUs, which only today, after 5-6 years, begin to normally withstand 5K resolution in heavy graphics tasks..
In addition, do not forget that the resolution of such a monitor as in 6K is much higher and this will give even more work to not-the-strongest GPUs, which only today, after 5-6 years, begin to normally withstand 5K resolution in heavy graphics tasks..
It’s simply progress. The 27” model has been the same for 6 years now. And with the bezel size, it simply makes sense that they could increase the screen size while retaining approximately the same physical size like they have done on every other product.
Also, the 21” entry level iMac feels really out of place today - we haven’t had a single 21” (non-laptop) screen in our work place for over 10 years.
The base iMac at 27” 5k and the regular and Pro iMac at 32” 6k seems much more fitting for today. I would expect this to be the way the iMac line goes at the next (non-spec bump) update.