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I love Apple products. Only buy Apple computers. But as a company, they don't really do much for our country, besides give us the best computers. If I had it my way, any company which sells 50% of goods in the USA would have to have 50% of their workforce employed here. Less than 50%, it would be based on the percentage sold.

Like any company, they want to make a profit first. If in the process, they make us happy, well that is a plus. How much profit is enough? Say they make these in the USA, and keep the same price point. Is $7B profit for a quarter good enough vs $13B? Why not just profit a billion per quarter, then lower the prices? Not going to happen. Business is all about making money first, at all costs. Nothing against Apple. That is how you run a business. You don't get an award for running a company into the ground, you get it for $13B quarterly profits.

Slap on a 20% tariff on all Chinese exports. That will bring some jobs back home. And Apple will have to learn to profit more realistically. People will say an iPad would be $999.99, well then people wouldn't buy them. If Apple made iPads here, they would have to cost $499, or I'd be an Android fan-boy in a day.

I own a single share of Apple stock. I paid $15.00 for it back in like 2002. It split way back, and I sold that split share for like $390.00. I'm keeping my single share forever. But that just shows you how much this company has grown. Couldn't' they be just as successful as a $250.00/share company? It seems they don't really need that much profit anyway, as they have like $100B in the bank. So why do their products cost so much, and why do them make them so cheaply in China?

IDK, but I would like if Apple could be more patriotic and maybe hire some manufacturing jobs in this country. That would be greater than any iPad they could ever make.

You know Apple pays taxes in the US, right? And employs a bunch of people who pay taxes in the US? All those out-of-work factory workers should get Apple Retail jobs or better yet, get an education and start programming or designing the next Apple product, because that's what Apple is doing for America.

And hey, look at you, an American stockowner of AAPL making some money for no effort on your part every time they split the stock.

You know what happens when we start slapping tariffs on other countries? They shrug and let you take all their jobs? Hahaha, no. They slap tariffs on your stuff too. You get a trade war, and since China has more to lose here than we do, they'll put much, much bigger tariffs on our stuff. China, as an emerging market, is not something we want to lose entirely, that will only benefit Europe and elsewhere. So, we'll be taking in less income, everything we have will go up in price 20% (because it's not just Apple products made in China, it's absolutely everything), and our lovely standard of living will go down in flames along with our economy. Can you afford to have your income go down while your cost of living goes up nearly 20%? How many people do you know can?

It's not always the most pleasant thing to stomach, but free trade results in specialization and everything that goes along with it. China right now specializes in unskilled manual labor. We specialize right now in designing and inventing things. Frankly, both sides benefit because China has a lot of unemployed, uneducated, poor people who need unskilled jobs, and we like designing and owning iPads. Building them, we can let somebody else do that, because our jobs over here require an education and creativity, and their jobs can be replaced by robots with Apple logos on them perhaps someday. Both sides make money, but that's not a bad thing. If anything, considering Apple's profits and market cap, we're getting the better end of the deal.

Would you honestly rather switch places with China? That's all you need to know.
 
nor are they always in the wrong. Apple already acquired the rights to the iPad trademark in China.. this is simply Chinese corruption - plain and simple.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

Had this happen in any juristiction other than China, Apple would be seriously violating trademark laws.

Facts are pretty simple, if your parent lost your custody.they have no right to sell your property. (Proview Shenzhen is bankrupt, and it is now controled by the creditors and receiver as opposed to the Taiwanese parent. Proview Shenzhen is simply not bound by the agreement entered by its parent with Apple)
 
So you think Apple should move production to the US, but you're not willing to pay for it? In effect, you're asking Apple's shareholders to subsidize job creation. Why would they? That's not the role for a corporation. That's the government's job.

If you want to move corporate profits into job creation in the US, vote for political candidates who will raise taxes on corporations and rich people and reinvest the revenue in spending on domestic programs that will create jobs--like infrastructure, education, or job training.

Great points!

Also, eliminate preferential tax rates on capital gains and dividends and instead give investment tax credits to companies that invest in domestic capital--physical and human. To create jobs in the future will require investment now, and it's worthwhile to run massive deficits to do that. But it's foolish to run deficits so wealthy Americans can pocket more of their profits from buying stock in corporations that spend their money overseas and do little that will make it any easier to retire the public debt later on.

In a global economy there's just so much leakage that tax policies can no longer assume that household savings benefits the economy of the household's country. You can't blame companies for maximizing profit by investing or spending elsewhere, but there's no reason to lower their cost of capital by lowering the tax on the profits of their securities.
 
I think you are misled by the news articles, or you didn't read careful enough.

The law suit was started by Apple against Proview in China in 2010 June, claiming that Proview needed to hand Apple the trademark "iPad".

Proview didn't take any aggressive action until the court ruled in their favor (and looks like they started to play hardball after). Proview was the defendant, and Apple was the plaintiff.

Hope this won't delay the iPad 3 launch. Planning to pre-order iPad 3. :mad:

My questions are simple. How long has Proview felt Apple was violating its trademark to the extent they said something either in public or to Apple? The iPad has been out a couple of years now, so one wonders why they have not taken some action sooner, and if they did, why it only recently became public.

Also, let's say the trademark is in fact being violated. The name is a tiny fraction of the value of the device, and most of the price is the "ecosystem" not the "hardware". So let's say based on relative prices to other pads, the price is 1/3 hardware and 2/3 ecosystem. Apple provides free or reduced price services in exchange for their own profit margin for example.

If Apple has made a "reasonable settlement offer" in the mind of a judge and Proview prevails in stopping worldwide shipments of iPads for a time, they could be liable for the marginal damages above and beyond the license fees they are entitled to.

In fact Apple shareholders could sue them on this theory because a "scorched earth" strategy in civil society has financial risks and costs.

I hope they settle.

Mainly I hope Apple takes up my suggestion and "unnames" the iPad entirely. The Apple logo is sufficient branding. The visual form factor is sufficient identification, and the model number on the back and in the settings app is sufficient specific ID.

I would hope Apple files a motion in limine that the maximum damages cannot exceeded the entire book value of Proview before the iPad was released to the public. If their shareholders have in any been damaged Apple could simply buy all shares at the price on the date identifiable damages began.

By limiting the scope of the recovery, the settlement negotiations will not be between the trademark value of a device in a single country against the entire worldwide sales of the entire device, ecosystem and profit of the company, its partners, and its stockholders. Were talking tens of millions of dollars vs hundreds of billions of dollars. That is not equity. Not even in China.

Not to mention a sudden cesation of iPad sales would cause sudden massive unemployment in China and an obvious effort on the part of Apple and its suppliers to diversify to other countries immediately.

Rocketman

http://news.findlaw.com/ap_stories/high_tech/1700/02-14-2012/20120214005000_06.html

The mothership has a market cap of $155m.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=Proview+International+Holdings+Ltd

And is "deeply in debt".

http://www.google.com/finance?q=HKG:0334&fstype=ii

http://www.google.com/finance?q=HKG:0334&fstype=ii
 
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Most posters don't get it. Apple is operating in a country where there is no rule of law. Of course the trademark claim is ludicrous, that's not the point. Pay enough money to the right people and you can make up the law as you go along. Apple is being taxed because those in power think Apple will pay and go along with business as usual.

Fortunately I believe Apple has contingencies in place. Steve Jobs knew he was playing with fire, he had to see this coming. It will be interesting to see if Apple goes "thermonuclear war" with this and threatens to pull out of China on a massive scale.
 
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Time for people to move operations away from China and into countries with governments who can cooperate.

I totally agree with this.

Apple is working to make fault tolerant options for their datacenters, streaming sources, and other items of their online business. I think they should build in some redundancies in their manufacturing as well.

They (as well as countless other companies) are putting too many eggs into China's supermarket, and only China has the keys to let people in or out.

Honestly, if the option was available (even if I had to pay a little more), I would happily pay a little more for an iPad made in other parts of Asia, Europe, or the USA.

Perhaps the factories in Brazil are a step away from Apple's dependance on China.
 
Canada is still part of the British Empire (such as it is), which still does enforce its claims over its dominion. Quebec is still stewing over its close encounter with independence. At some point, all or part of the world's largest country may decide to shake its tacit rulers, who may decide to not just remain figureheads. Seems impossible now, but hasn't been all that long since - and may be about time for - Canada fought for control of its own borders.

What? Canada /= The Falklands.
 

What I said: Canada is still part of the British Empire.

Canada's government includes a formal representative of the Crown, gets occasional visits from the Queen as ruler-visiting-subjects (not as sovereign-visiting-sovereign), honors the Queen on their currency as origin/basis thereof, and solicits approval of certain categories of legislation from the Crown.

While, obviously, at this time Canada acts as sovereign for all practical purposes, and the Crown acts as a figurehead, the respect & acknowledgement of that power structure and subjugation continues to exist.

England learned something from the American Revolution, and gave Canada a long leash as a result. The leash may be long and loose, but it is still a leash. Attempts to sever it may garner serious consequences - hence the question of "defend Canada from whom?"
 
The commonwealth is not the empire, and it doesn't imply ownership or control. I'd hope the UK might support Canada if the US decided to invade, but the idea is pretty farfetched.
 
The commonwealth is not the empire, and it doesn't imply ownership or control. I'd hope the UK might support Canada if the US decided to invade, but the idea is pretty far fetched.
The US Canada border is among the most battled borders in the world. UK would certainly back Canada in an armed conflict.

With this President, you can't rule it out! :D
 
Perhaps the factories in Brazil are a step away from Apple's dependance on China.
Yeah, it's not like Foxconn is beholden to China in any way. Not the sort of diversification that would seem to provide much benefit in this context.
 
Do you realize what it takes to "switch production" to another country ?

About 2-5 years. And what is Apple to do in the meantime ?

I think that would be if they didn't have a plant in Brazil already. FoxConn has one that should be ramping up production soon.

But I feel that the recent decision to not block iPad shipments is perhaps the first sane thing that the Chinese government has done. Apple *could* survive if they just said 'Fine. We will make them somewhere else', or 'Fine, we'll stop making them then.' and let China sweat it out...

But anyway...
 
Getting tired of ...

I am getting tired of China ...

Wish it made sense (financially) to build iStuff in the US.
 
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Most posters don't get it. Apple is operating in a country where there is no rule of law. Of course the trademark claim is ludicrous, that's not the point. Pay enough money to the right people and you can make up the law as you go along. Apple is being taxed because those in power think Apple will pay and go along with business as usual.

Fortunately I believe Apple has contingencies in place. Steve Jobs knew he was playing with fire, he had to see this coming. It will be interesting to see if Apple goes "thermonuclear war" with this and threatens to pull out of China on a massive scale.

Just curious: do you have the ability to read carefully and discern facts or do you like to just parrot sound bites and throw in some off the wall "insight" of your own for good measure?

Still amazed why people are trying to portray this as a China vs. US issue when it's really a matter of a non-Chinese group with a LEGAL right to a trademark battling against a company whose lawyers dropped the ball in their due diligence.
 
Most posters don't get it. Apple is operating in a country where there is no rule of law. Of course the trademark claim is ludicrous, that's not the point.

Most posters don't understand how things are changing in China... yes it's the wild west, but laws do exist in China.


I am getting tired of China ...

They're not going away. If you look at world history, China one of the most powerful civilizations up until the (late?) 1700s. It's an ancient country/culture in comparison to many European countries. So it should not be surprising the Chinese are regaining their place in history... as the country has been near the top for the majority of human history.
 
Apple got 100 billy in the bank, they can pretty much any other company in any legal matters.

Yeah, that's how the justice system should work...whomever has the most money wins! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

This is war. I just hope it stays a war of economic destruction and not a war of guns and bombs.

Sadly, I think it would take actual bombs to wake most people up to the fact that we ARE at war and that most of our own American companies are playing for the wrong side! People don't realize that our massive debt is largely due to very unbalanced trading with countries like China. China then buys our debt and increases our dependence on them. Does ANYONE out there ask themselves what will happen in the end if this continues? I'll give you a hint. It involves your descendents speaking Mandarin (if they're even allowed to live; China might just sterilize all non-Chinese when they finally take over our country once and for all).

Under these conditions, the companies that are taking advantage of China's slave labor force are basically bringing that future closer and closer. In actual physical war, they would be complete traitors to our country and put to death. I don't see any reason why these Corporations should be treated any differently economically. The key is not to tariff the Chinese companies, but to tariff the outsourced jobs and subsidiaries that make products for American companies overseas and then sells the goods back to us. China can't justify a trade war (although some might say they are already waging one...a quiet one where they always win) over us punishing what amounts to our own companies for moving jobs out of this country. Such a tariff simply evens the playing field for actual US companies that keep manufacturing here versus ones that move jobs overseas. True foreign companies would not be affected directly.

Jobs actually tried manufacturing in the USA: the NeXT computer. It was not successful, although the reasons could be argued. The price was a big factor in the failure as NeXT could not respond to the rapidly falling industry pricing.

My Apple branded Powermac Digital Audio from 2001 sitting here says MADE IN THE USA on it. Apple didn't always assemble their computers overseas. Frankly, it wasn't THAT long ago (i.e. I'm typing on and upgraded version of that computer right now running Leopard. It powers my whole house audio/video system and works as a 24/7 Internet terminal.

You know what happens when we start slapping tariffs on other countries? They shrug and let you take all their jobs? Hahaha, no. They slap tariffs on your stuff too. You get a trade war, and since China has more to lose here than we do, they'll put much, much bigger tariffs on our stuff. China, as an
emerging market, is not something we want to lose entirely, that will only

I disagree completely on all accounts. I think normalizing trade relations with China was the worst thing this country ever did (worse than NAFTA even). That was the beginning of the end for our country's worldwide dominance. We just handed the keys over to a Commie Red country that has nuclear weapons. We make an example of piddly Cuba, but betray the very same ethics by trading full scale with China, who is a true threat to our Western way of life and global dominance. Anyone who says otherwise is probably aligned with the small percentage of people making huge money off that trade because overall all it's done is create a MASSIVE trade imbalance and debt that has pushed us further and further under China's thumb to the point where they will control us and not the other way around. The decision was ASININE on all levels and made purely out of lobbied GREED by the companies that couldn't wait to move American jobs overseas so they could make more profit.

Putting a tariff on only American companies manufacturing or outsourcing manufacturing overseas will not create a trade war (they are our companies) and it would be a HUGE deterrent to moving further jobs overseas if it is no longer more profitable to do so. Sadly, such a law will NEVER get passed because our completely corrupt government is for sale to the highest bidder and the American public don't mean SQUAT compared to the Mega Corporations dangling BILLIONS in their faces. Our democracy is a complete SHAM these days. It's become little more than a puppet government for the ultra-elite aristocracy and will remain so until nothing much short of a full scale rebellion (politically if nothing else) takes place. The people have to say NO MORE and mean it and be willing to risk everything to change it. Otherwise, the same BS will continue until the U.S. is little more than a puppet of China.
 
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Omg there's so much misleading information regarding this issue on media and in this forum as well. Look like in no where, the name of the main actor of this drama was ever mentioned. I hope the information in this verdict from HK court would help to clear some confusion. You can read it here: http://www.hklii.hk/cgi-bin/sinodisp/eng/hk/cases/hkcfi/2011/1375.html

So the fact is, Mr.Yang is legal representative, GM, Chairman and CEO of all 4 entities evolved here. When IP Application try to buy the IPAD name, Mr.Yang represented all 3 entities (Proview Holdings, Proview Electronics and Proview Shenzhen) to make deal with IP Application, and he agreed to sell the IPAD name to IP Application.

After get payment from IP Application, Mr.Yang sold this trade mark again to Yoke Technology which also owned by him.

Now Mr.Yang appear again in media, accusing Apple to steal that trade mark from him and ask for 1.5 bil compensation.

I don't know what do you think about all this. But I myself find it very interesting the way they do business in China.

Also FYI, the IPAD name doesn't belong to Proview Shenzhen any more cause it already been sold to Yoke Technology, and this company never ever file any bankruptcy. So the creditor of Proview Shenzhen has nothing to do with the dispute here.
 
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