Proview Seeking to Cut Off Apple's Worldwide Supply of iPads

[RogueWarrior65]

Can anyone say "Samsung's behind this"?

I call total ********* on this one. Seeking to block exports? WTF? If the Chinese government lets this one stand, we're all in deep pork fried rice. That would mean anyone who trademarks something in China could block its sale everywhere else in the world if that thing is made in China.

Of course, a true free market wouldn't blink at this and Apple would find a manufacturer somewhere else. Isn't Foxconn opening a plant in Brazil?

 

[jace88]

I'm pretty sure plenty of locals in China would be pretty peeved too seeing that they'd lose a lot of business e.g. workers in factories, workers in distribution channels, workers in shops, consumers, etc...

... I'd argue it's actually not in the country's best interests to pursue this IP protection given that it reduces tax revenue.

 

[Ryth]

Apple just has to learn to share.... yes its a hard concept. In relation to the china issue, Apple has to learn to do their research, and get better lawyers who pay more attention.

Yes Apple is getting rolled, though its in the interest of both Apple and China for apple to remain in china. In a way this is the Chinese government showing who is boss, and then back to normal operation. Pocket change for Apple in the long run. Moving operation to another honest run 3rd world country..... yeah.... comeon!

I'm sure what were going to find out is the Taiwanese affiliate either lied or misrepresented it's legal rights to the name in China.

Then Apple will use one of it's Orbital Laser Satellites to remedy the problem.

 

[tigres]

Switch it over to Brazil, tell China to go pack sand. Enjoy your knock offs, and sending your scalpers abroad again.

SJ probably would have made this happen in less than 30 days.

 

[thatisme]

I think the worst that can and will happen if the ruling doesn't go in Apple's favor is that they ban the "sale" of iPad's in China due to the trademark. However, Apple does own the Trademark outside of China, so there shouldn't be any grounds to ban the "Export" of the iPad from China.

However, that is also assuming that the Chinese officials think rationally and logically, which hasn't been the case in the past...

 

[5aga]

They would have to make realistic profits if they manufactured their products in the USA. I love Apple, but I'm not paying $100.00 *more* for an iPad, when there are some really nice alternatives. And I'm not paying hundreds more for my new MacBook Pro. And if I did, I wouldn't be buying them every (other) year, that's for sure. Apple couldn't add 24% to their prices and have to compete with all the other great products, which *also* come from China.

Side by side, you'd see, $249.99, $299.99, $349.99, $599.00... guess which one you aren't buying?

this is true however thinking long term - 10 years ahead, Apple could realistically move its production lines to the US. The fact that they will soon be producing iPads/iPhones in Brazil signals an opportunity to dump the Chinese factories and broaden their production base.

 

[charlituna]

China cutting of its own balls? I don't think so!

If they go along with this plan, it could be. Apple could pull all their business out of China for all production and call for other US tech companies to do the same. And they could end up with the government in support of this. Imagine how much hurt it would be if every one of the US based companies on Foxconn's client list pulled out and moved to other companies or at least none Chinese plants. That's a lot of jobs lost. And it is possible that the US could also call for these companies to stop selling in China altogether. Even if the call was a bluff it could be one that wins the game.

what this seems to come down to is that Proview is, pardon the phrase, butt hurt that they sold the rights to a company for a paltry amount only to find out that Apple was connected. So they are using a loophole to try to bully out more money at the current value which is several times more. When in fact it is a bad faith move because they never admitted that technically they didn't own the rights in China to sell. IPAD bought the rights in good faith and that means they were led to believe that China was in the package. In fact they might have had China on a list of where they were getting the rights. But the Chinese government is playing ball with their own and not requiring that the agreement be honored or at the least that Proview's branch company be required to sell the rights to Apple and at the pre iPad value (so no more than the $55k that bought the 'Global' rights and perhaps much less)

 

[bluesoverdrive]

Hola Brasil!
How do you spell / pronounce "iPad" in Portuguese?

It's similar to the american pronunciation but sounds more like "iPadee".

PS: Hola is spanish not Portuguese, the correct is Olá.


Instead of moving production to Brazil or buying ProView, wouldn't it be easier to just change the name of the device?

 

[PracticalMac]

No name iPads shipped to facility in US where names are laser etched and delivered.

In China call it "iWin".

Surprised more pressure not come down on LowView.
My guess the locals think they can get a piece of Apple Pie, until the Godfather (top politicians) will set them straight (since they cant get their free toy).

 

[TrentS]

I-Pad

I'm not sure if this would work, but couldn't Apple just change the iPad to the I-pad ( or Ipad). Instead of using the lower case i, it would use the Roman Numeral one in its place, ( I ). It would still look the same visually, but would actually be different in terms of alphabet characters.

 

[Revelation78]

Something just doesn't sit right with me when there are hundreds of thousands of people working in these facilities. I've read stories from leaked interviews where the workers drop things on purpose, as they can actually take a second off of their feet and rest. Worker's can't even tell you the names of people they work with because there are so many and you have no time to talk. Worker's basically never leave the factory grounds. They work there, eat there, sleep there, etc. Housing is provided for most of these workers. You basically give up your life to the employer. These conditions are very similar to what was happening in the USA at the turn of the 20th century. China is only 100 years or so out of touch.

But that is the problem of dealing with a communist state. Apple is really dealing with the Chinese government, not any company, as the government always has the final say. There is no capitalism as we know it.

Part of me always feels guilty about buying Apple, as I know the conditions these people work under. I don't buy Nike, and haven't, after learning of the conditions those workers endure. Maybe someday I won't buy Apple products.

Or maybe Apple can have one token plant in the USA, that makes "custom" computers, where people can buy them, pay a small premium, and help the country.

WOW, those are some pretty rosey-red glases you got there bud... You do realize that working at Foxcomm, for Chinese, is a lot better than the alternative right? You do realize that of those "hundreds of thousands" of people, they come from the poorerst parts of the land? You do realize they can leave at anytime they wish?

You and I see those conditions as abhorent, but those workers don't necessarily do. Those companies create mini-citites for the workers to keep them on campus, not to "lock them up" and force them to work. Heck, I make good money, yet I still think my employer is sometimes a "slave driver." When you want to talk about the living/working conditions in China, maybe you should pull your head out and consider the alternatives to what they have.

I can promise you, if you were a Chinese citizen, you would stand in line to get on board with a company like Foxcomm. If you look back to an old article, the employment lines for Foxcomm where longer than any Apple launch line - ever.

 

[Rocketman]

My questions are simple. How long has Proview felt Apple was violating its trademark to the extent they said something either in public or to Apple? The iPad has been out a couple of years now, so one wonders why they have not taken some action sooner, and if they did, why it only recently became public.

Also, let's say the trademark is in fact being violated. The name is a tiny fraction of the value of the device, and most of the price is the "ecosystem" not the "hardware". So let's say based on relative prices to other pads, the price is 1/3 hardware and 2/3 ecosystem. Apple provides free or reduced price services in exchange for their own profit margin for example.

If Apple has made a "reasonable settlement offer" in the mind of a judge and Proview prevails in stopping worldwide shipments of iPads for a time, they could be liable for the marginal damages above and beyond the license fees they are entitled to.

In fact Apple shareholders could sue them on this theory because a "scorched earth" strategy in civil society has financial risks and costs.

I hope they settle.

Mainly I hope Apple takes up my suggestion and "unnames" the iPad entirely. The Apple logo is sufficient branding. The visual form factor is sufficient identification, and the model number on the back and in the settings app is sufficient specific ID.

I would hope Apple files a motion in limine that the maximum damages cannot exceeded the entire book value of Proview before the iPad was released to the public. If their shareholders have in any been damaged Apple could simply buy all shares at the price on the date identifiable damages began.

By limiting the scope of the recovery, the settlement negotiations will not be between the trademark value of a device in a single country against the entire worldwide sales of the entire device, ecosystem and profit of the company, its partners, and its stockholders. Were talking tens of millions of dollars vs hundreds of billions of dollars. That is not equity. Not even in China.

Not to mention a sudden cesation of iPad sales would cause sudden massive unemployment in China and an obvious effort on the part of Apple and its suppliers to diversify to other countries immediately.

Rocketman

http://news.findlaw.com/ap_stories/high_tech/1700/02-14-2012/20120214005000_06.html

The mothership has a market cap of $155m.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=Proview+International+Holdings+Ltd

And is "deeply in debt".

http://www.google.com/finance?q=HKG:0334&fstype=ii

http://www.google.com/finance?q=HKG:0334&fstype=ii

 

[bushido]

this is true however thinking long term - 10 years ahead, Apple could realistically move its production lines to the US. The fact that they will soon be producing iPads/iPhones in Brazil signals an opportunity to dump the Chinese factories and broaden their production base.

lets see, pay 15 Euro an Hour and "only" 8 hours a day or 1 Euro for 12 hours a day, yea i think companies will stick to "asian" countries

 

[samcraig]

The real question is who has more power in this "battle"

And I'd say that ultimately, the Chinese government does. I think it will result in a settlement.

Bottom line is - as much as it's not in Apple's nature to "negotiate" - it's also not in Apple's DNA to prevent a product launch of a highly anticipated device.

Apple isn't going to close up shop and move elsewhere "overnight" because that not only delays production - but also has an enormous cost associated with it. So either way - they would be delaying that launch.

And as bad as the Chinese government may or may not look - Apple would look a lot worse for pulling out of China.

my .02

 

[kocoman]

Just rename ipad to something else, people know its still ipad...

 

[haravikk]

Maybe this'll encourage Apple to look at opening some factories in other places? It's always going to be a risky business having all of your factories in a single location.

 

[anonymouse99]

This makes me laugh .... China trying to enforce trademarks .... since when? US has been trying to do this for years with rampant violations on their soil. I would venture to guess that the Chinese would force the company to accept a quick/small (if indeed there are issues) settlement to ensure that this case does not become an example for foreign companies to quickly look for alternative manufacturing spots around the globe.

 

[coolspot18]

The fact that they will soon be producing iPads/iPhones in Brazil signals an opportunity to dump the Chinese factories and broaden their production base.

The new factories in Brazil are owned by Foxconn and supposedly part of a larger Sino-Brazil trade deal.

This makes me laugh .... China trying to enforce trademarks .... since when?

Since their application to the WTO?

 

[charlituna]

Not too much of a joke.. they have cops pulling stock from stores.

But only from 3rd party shops. So they got like 100 units. They don't have the balls to go into any actual Apple Stores, warehouses or factories and yank stuff.

Then again, given the issues with riots etc over the iPhone 4s, its possible that Apple won't be selling iPads in their stores in China anyway and will make it online only. So it would be a cinch to just not sell to China.

Now to deal with the whole export issue until they can get production set up somewhere not China.

 

[Lennholm]

I like it. Scorched Earth policy!

Probably not Apple's style, but fun to muse about.

Probably exactly Apple's style

------------------------------------

Its amazing how the fanboys have their panties in a twist over the Proview/Ipad and at the same time believe that ITV should bugger off as they have only been around since 1955 cause apple might plan to bring out a TV called iTV.... Hypocrites much?

And the solution to all this... "Apple should buy x" Geez we really sound like a bunch of cool rich spoilt douchbags....

Apple just has to learn to share.... yes its a hard concept. In relation to the china issue, Apple has to learn to do their research, and get better lawyers who pay more attention.

Yes Apple is getting rolled, though its in the interest of both Apple and China for apple to remain in china. In a way this is the Chinese government showing who is boss, and then back to normal operation. Pocket change for Apple in the long run. Moving operation to another honest run 3rd world country..... yeah.... comeon!

Nah, that's not hypocritical. It's entirely consistent with the "Apple should be able to do whatever the h*ll they want, they're above the law"-logic

 

[swordfish5736]

i still dont get how they have grounds to even try and say there parent company doesnt have control over them...thats like Honda selling the trademark for VTEC and then acura suing the new company thats using it saying its there's.

regardless this will get interesting

 

[ktmelvis]

Would Apple be number 1 if made in USA

I would still think Apple would be #1 if the products were made in the USA, look at all the problems coming out of China, worker abuse, theft of intellectual property and corruption, why deal with China, is it the market they want to deal with, I guess money is money, corporations have always said, to make things better in China is to invest there, I have always taken corporation statements as a pile of crap, so what is China doing with all that money, their building a communist war machine funded by the rest of the world, I say to Apple, bring it back home.

 

[q64ceo]

Its a shame that Chinese experiment didn't work for you.

Can we have those jobs back now?

 

[coolspot18]

I'm not sure if this would work, but couldn't Apple just change the iPad to the I-pad ( or Ipad).

McDonalds routinely sues companies that use "Mc" in anything... so I doubt this will pass international trademark laws.

 

[ArcaneDevice]

Its amazing how the fanboys have their panties in a twist over the Proview/Ipad and at the same time believe that ITV should bugger off as they have only been around since 1955 cause apple might plan to bring out a TV called iTV.... Hypocrites much?

It is hilarious when Apple is throwing it's weight around trying to bully other products off the market everyone here is on their side. When it's Apple being brought to task for the same reasons suddenly the opposition is the bad guy.

And yes, Apple have infringed patents and trademarks before, like the Cisco iPhone. Check your history Apple newbies. They are not always in the right.