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And before anyone claims again that technology has nothing to do with gameplay, I would prefer that anyone making such a statement keep a vivid image of the Atari 7800 (or a Magnavox Odyssey, for that matter) firmly captured in the mind all the while. It should help keep things in perspective.

Oh, you mean to have a different view to yours it should be an extremist one? Them old games couldn't carry a story or other important features in games. The very late 80's and early 90's could. It's when Zelda, Ultima and all them lot came into their own. It's why the most popular emulators are those from that era, not Atari and older systems.

I agree a little bit on the Goldeneye and Mario Kart front. I'm finding it hard playing Mario Kart 64 after Double Dash and even the DS version - but there we have it. The DS is a portable N64, hardware wise. Age has brought refined controls and better gameplay; not hardware. And Mario Kart DS is touted as the best Mario Kart game despite being on inferior hardware to Double Dash.
I believe an updated OoT with updated textures, models and music would wipe the floor with every other adventure game since its original release because they have the gameplay so well balanced and well designed. I'd go as far to say I'd probably prefer that to Twilight Princess.

And progress doesn't mean a game is better. New features don't mean a game is better. I, and many of my friends and even people on this board, prefer Halo 1 to Halo 3. Personally I found the story direction, game and level design in Halo 2 and 3 to be a kick in the balls to the original Halo 1. Of course if it's done right progress and new features can be good. Gravity Gun in HL2 and all that. But they are rarely ever done right. If the core game is crap then you can count progress as a gimmick. HL2 without the gravity gun would still be a magnificent game. HL2 with a poor gameplay and poor direction with a gravity gun would be a terrible game.
Balance. It's a shame 99% of devs out there don't understand it.


If old games are so inferior to new ones why is there a thriving retro game market, why does the 360 and PS3 put up remakes of classic games and the Wii's Virtual Console sell phenomenally well?
 
Uh-huh.

$50 a year is NOT a "bargain". All MMO's cost monthly; you have to pay for MMO's on TOP of the XBox Live fee.

Microsoft is the ONLY company that charges for online play. Every PC game has had free online play for over a decade, and games on the PC that are ported to the XBox have free online play in the PC version.

Nintendo, Sony, and every PC game maker have free online play.

And look what you get for your troubles.
Can you report people on those other systems? No.
Can you blacklist a player or system so you don't have to ever play them again (if they're, say, being rude or cheating)? Not on those other systems.

All this complaining about Xbox Live's subscription fee is ridiculous.
$50 a year. (Technically, not even that. $42 on Buy.com gets you a 12+1 card which is less than $4 a month.)

If you don't want to pay it, then don't. you get what you pay for
 
I think the main complaint about it is that PC gaming does all this and more, and doesn't cost a penny. Steam recently made a huge leap forward in terms of community gaming, yet it's free. It's also that MS doesn't host servers, the end user does.

Feature wise it's not as good, but the DS and Wii games are host by Nintendo and Gamespy's servers and they don't cost you a penny.

Where is that £40 a month going? Part of me thinks it's helping subsidise the 360 since they're probably selling at a loss. But it's cool. It's a very good system.
 
i havent read the wntire thread so sorry if already said.
360 elite is good if you can afford other than that id go ps3 for built in blu ray which the xbox dosnt have hd dvd wise you have to pay extra for a add on our chocie
 
Where is that £40 a month going? Part of me thinks it's helping subsidise the 360 since they're probably selling at a loss. But it's cool. It's a very good system.

Its not £40 a month

The 360 has actually been making a profit for the last 12 months or so.
 
Lolol mybad. A friend of mine got the webcam/12 months subscription off eBay for something stupidly cheap, about £30 or something.

Online service must be subsidising that £2billion warranty thing. I honestly thought by the time the PS3 came out they would have made it free.
 
And look what you get for your troubles.
Can you report people on those other systems? No.
Can you blacklist a player or system so you don't have to ever play them again (if they're, say, being rude or cheating)? Not on those other systems.

All this complaining about Xbox Live's subscription fee is ridiculous.
$50 a year. (Technically, not even that. $42 on Buy.com gets you a 12+1 card which is less than $4 a month.)

If you don't want to pay it, then don't. you get what you pay for

I think the main complaint about it is that PC gaming does all this and more, and doesn't cost a penny. Steam recently made a huge leap forward in terms of community gaming, yet it's free. It's also that MS doesn't host servers, the end user does.

$50 a year is one game less a year. For a student on a budget that's actually no small amount. And as Jimmi said, PC gaming does all of that for free.
 
Hows this for a twist, I'm being given a PS3 :D it's one of the old b/c models. My cousin hasn't used his since he bought it so I asked if I could borrow it just to see how it looked on my monitor and he said I might as well keep it. Just give me a friggin DVI or VGA cable now else I'll be back to using composite.

I've come to the conclusion I'm a lucky SOB when it comes to getting free consoles :p

But back on topic - I hope the next gen sees an even more integrated online components and they're free. One thing we really need is the ability to purchase all new releases in retail or online stores. Steam has this right with the pre-loading content feature. If they aim for that next gen with Time Splitters 2/Xbox 360 achievements in all games it'd be a nice gen to be in.
 
Hows this for a twist, I'm being given a PS3 :D it's one of the old b/c models. My cousin hasn't used his since he bought it so I asked if I could borrow it just to see how it looked on my monitor and he said I might as well keep it. Just give me a friggin DVI or VGA cable now else I'll be back to using composite.
wow..
 
I think the main complaint about it is that PC gaming does all this and more, and doesn't cost a penny. Steam recently made a huge leap forward in terms of community gaming, yet it's free. It's also that MS doesn't host servers, the end user does.

Feature wise it's not as good, but the DS and Wii games are host by Nintendo and Gamespy's servers and they don't cost you a penny.

Where is that £40 a month going? Part of me thinks it's helping subsidise the 360 since they're probably selling at a loss. But it's cool. It's a very good system.

$50 a year is one game less a year. For a student on a budget that's actually no small amount. And as Jimmi said, PC gaming does all of that for free.

[Please forgive my 'lack of Steam experience', I've never used it (yet)]

Does Steam let you keep 1 nickname on all the games it supports?

My online PC gaming experience over the past...god knows how many years...you could end up having to change your nickname if someone else was already using it which would lead to problems if everyone knew you as...'you' (insert your username here).

I like what Xbox Live gives me, and I don't have a problem paying for it. I do wish they would change some things and offer it for free; like having a free plan but ad supported in the Xbox dashboard (which is already the case - having ads whether you have Live Silver or pay for Live Gold), or have a plan where you pay a few bucks a month and have no dashboard ads.

I still don't see Xbox Live as not being 'a bargain'. For students on a budget they should worry about paying for tuition and meal tickets and boarding costs, not games and iPods and Starbucks.

One more thing in Live's favor is that it allows PC gamers to play against console gamers as well as having it be as unified as it is...that's something else that all the "freebies" don't offer. I know originally UT3 on the Ps3 was going to have console <-> PC playing but I believe that feature's been scrapped due to complications, so Live remains the only way to do such a thing. Again, you get what you pay for.
 
I'll probably get flamed for this, but Halo 3 makes the 360 worth it...

I have no idea why MS can't have WiFi integrated into the console though...
 
Games aside, because that argument is totally subjective...

With the PS3, you get a more reliable machine (a 3% failure rate compared to the 30% failure rate of the 360), free online play, built in next-gen media platform which will help when games are made bigger and bigger, built in Wi-Fi which let's face it, is an absolute must on these next-gen consoles and a swappable harddrive.
 
...because most people still use wired ethernet and it's not cost effective? :D

Yeesh, I love this "wireless is a requirement" argument; it's nearly as bad as the "BluRay is a requirement" argument. :rolleyes:
 
I agree with Zero2Dash. For the most part. Well $50 is a little bit on the expensive side, you do in fact get what you pay for. This fee allows for a much more stable service. Rarely are any technical problems encountered on live, and the community is controlled by moderators. This can make the whole gaming experience, shall we say, pleasant? Steam and other PC run servers though offer similar services, though not nearly as advance. I've played on PC servers where players are much more pleasant and games better maintaned than on any XBox Live match. This really depends on the game though...Players tend to be much more mature on Gears of War than Halo 2/3, for example.
 
Does Steam let you keep 1 nickname on all the games it supports?

Yup.

1 account name (must be unique) any name ingame. Unified through all Steam games via the community panel. Own avatar too, also unified. No adverts and free. Love to see MS do that.
 
My household has been through 3 XBOX 360's. We've employed the Intercooler accessory to keep heat down (the number one cause of crashing).

I bought a PS3 to accompany my Sharp Aquos as they have the same color palatte and I wanted the ability to upconvert DVD's to 1080. Games I can't provide feedback as I bought it because a Toshiba Blu-ray was the same price and didn't upconvert. Love the interface and prefer the controller.

Currently, you can purchase one for $399 with 5 Blu-ray movies free by mail-in-rebate (that's is a huge savings!)
 
mosx; I play with my DS and Wii online all the time, lag-free, over 802.11g. I do the same with my MacBook.

DS and Wii? Not to sound like a jerk, but when you can play REAL games on those systems, then we can talk. Okay?

MacBook? The Intel GPU in all of the revisions of the MacBook can barely choke out 30fps in UT2k4 at 640x480 with the lowest quality settings. I know this because I have one.

Considering you have a MacBook, Wii, and DS, you wouldn't necessarily notice the poor connection quality either because of the games you are playing, or because of the fact that they run so terrible to begin with.

Faulty comparison; the lowest-end PS3 still has every single thing the "fully functional" XBox 360 Premium has and then some (a bigger hard drive, Blu-ray, and WiFi).

And the high end XBox 360 was $449 last I checked (the Elite).

The $399 PS3 lacks a few things the Xbox360 has. Backwards compatibility for one. As well as good games, a good online service, HD movie and TV downloads, the ability to play your own music while playing games, easy media streaming, good games, etc.

Wifi? Again, useless. Blu-ray? Also useless. Every single PS3 game released so far has been proven (good ole hackers) to be able to fit on a DVD as long as the dummy data was removed from the disc. Blu-ray is ueless for movies too. Movie studio support keeps going back and forth, consumers aren't buy either format regardless of what BDA says, and my upscaling DVD player makes that $10 new DVD look about 90% as good as that $35 blu-ray disc. Bigger HDD? Both the Xbox360 and PS3 shortchange you on that. However, 40GB isn't much to brag about. It'll fill up fast considering the PS3 has no good way to stream media from a PC or Mac.

A 360 with HD-DVD, 2 controllers, and wi-fi is $580. Add a couple games and you're looking at $700.

Except you don't need HD-DVD. It's not being forced upon you like blu-ray. Again, every PS3 game, with the dummy data removed, would fit on a nice (and mostly single layer) DVD. Buying into blu-ray or HD-DVD at this point is ridiculously stupid. People only include the HD-DVD option in the Xbox360 price when they have to justify their own mistake in purchasing the PS3.

Xbox360 comes with a wireless controller. Only need one extra. But, seeing as how most people who are "Gamers" these days own an Xbox360, your friends can bring their own controllers. Wifi? Again, useless. Especially when using the Xbox360 to its fullest capability, like streaming HD video over the network from a Media Center PC.

What? I've not got the best connection. 512kbps through a (albeit powerful) wireless router a good 30 or so metres and 2 walls and a floor away. Yet I find it easy playing HL2 deathmatch (ping of 12) and TF2 (ping of 18). I'm looking at the list of other people playing and they're at 5-100 ping. I used to get drops before we bought an N-band router. It's perfect now. I think you need to buy a new router if it's as bad as what you're making it sound...

You're one of the few people who have claimed to have a good connection over wifi. I've never seen it done myself.

And, again, WiFi is useless when you want to use the Xbox360 to its fullest capability, such as video streaming.

Microsoft is the ONLY company that charges for online play. Every PC game has had free online play for over a decade, and games on the PC that are ported to the XBox have free online play in the PC version.

Nintendo, Sony, and every PC game maker have free online play.

And look at how bad the online experience is on Nintendo and Sony consoles. I played a lot of PS2 games online and it paled in comparison to what Xbox Live offers you. Look at Nintendo's stupid service. Friend codes? :rolleyes: Why is it that Nintendo can always get away with doing idiotic things (cartridges in the CD era, the Wii, DS) and everyone acts like its a gift from God?

I'd take Ocarina of Time over any modern game, honestly. Yeah, the graphics don't look very good, but you know what? It's got the story, and it makes you think and it has some very good stage design. It's one of the best games of all time.

Ocarina of Time was not one of the best games ever, despite what the idiotic reviewers and fanboys say. It was average at best. The story was just a rehashed slight rewrite of the SNES story, the gameplay was dull and boring (where were all the enemies?) and all you had to do to beat most enemies was mash a button after auto-targetting them. The most "challenging" part of the game was not pulling your hair out over how stupid the Water Temple was designed. No, it was not hard, just stupid. The character development was non-existant. All you did was walk from point A to point B. Then at point B you'd go into a "dungeon" and push a couple of blocks around, light a couple of torches or something on fire, or shoot an eye in the wall, and you'd meet a ridiculously easy boss that only had to be hit a couple of times after going through their unncessarily complex animation to make them appear to be "fighting" you.

The last great game that Nintendo made was Super Mario 64. The last "good" game they released was Mario Kart 64. It's been down hill ever since, with titles that make you think "wtf is this crap" like Yoshi's Story or Super Mario Sunshine (yes I had a GameCube and promptly returned it after putting 5 hours into that game, 3 hours into Metroid Prime, and being disgusted by Zelda: The Wind Waker).

ps3 no doubt.

already mentioned: 30% failure rate on xbox 360, <1% on ps3.

throw in blu ray and its a no brainer.

Proof of the failure rate on the Xbox360 and PS3? PS3's failure rate hasn't been talked about yet because not enough people have bought the systems for any to fail. Plus those who have bought them rarely play them. Look at what happened to the PS2. Those didn't start failing until the 2 year old mark. When they did start to fail, Sony had to lose a class action lawsuit before they finally started fixing them for free. At least Microsoft extended warranties, refunded repair costs, and admitted to the problem.

With the PS3, you get a more reliable machine (a 3% failure rate compared to the 30% failure rate of the 360), free online play, built in next-gen media platform which will help when games are made bigger and bigger, built in Wi-Fi which let's face it, is an absolute must on these next-gen consoles and a swappable harddrive.

PS3 is more reliable? Ask all the people who had DREs with their PS2 and had to file a class action lawsuit against Sony, which they won, before Sony would fix them. Again, the PS3 only "seems" more reliable because it has less than 1/3 the amount sold of the Xbox360 (in the US), and those that do own a PS3 rarely use it. I only know one person who has a PS3 (out of the 100 or so that had a PS2 and now own a 360) and he almost never uses it as a game machine. Only uses it for the occasional blu-ray disc. WiFi? Again, no thanks. I want a reliable connection that won't go to crap if someone throws some food in the microwaves... or if I want to stream video from my PC to my console.

Next-gen media? Again, every PS3 game available NOW would fit on a DVD and most of those would go just fine on a single layer DVD.

The only good thing the PS3 has is the ability to use any 2.5" HDD. But you'll need that because the PS3 has no good way to stream media to it.

Yup.

1 account name (must be unique) any name ingame. Unified through all Steam games via the community panel. Own avatar too, also unified. No adverts and free. Love to see MS do that.

Too bad Valve won't let you change your account name or anything at will. I was one of the first to sign up with Steam during the beta days. Now they won't let me change my account name (which is an old email address I no longer use) unless I pay them to change it for every single game I own.

I bought a PS3 to accompany my Sharp Aquos as they have the same color palatte and I wanted the ability to upconvert DVD's to 1080. Games I can't provide feedback as I bought it because a Toshiba Blu-ray was the same price and didn't upconvert. Love the interface and prefer the controller.

You mean Toshiba HD-DVD? All Toshiba HD-DVD players upscale DVDs. All of them. But if your main goal is to upscale DVDs, an Oppo upscaling DVD player for around $150 or a Windows based HTPC will make an upscaled DVD on the PS3 look as bad as one of those $29 Wal-Mart players.

Currently, you can purchase one for $399 with 5 Blu-ray movies free by mail-in-rebate (that's is a huge savings!)

You can also get HD-DVD players for under $199 (that DO upscale DVDs) with 5 free HD-DVDs.

The Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on also qualifies for 5 free HD-DVDs. Plus the Xbox360 upscales DVDs better than the PS3 (Seeing as how it has a hardware scaler), and the Xbox360 will stream HD video content from a PC and it has an HD TV show store and HD movie rental store online with Xbox Live.
 
DS and Wii? Not to sound like a jerk, but when you can play REAL games on those systems, then we can talk. Okay?

MacBook? The Intel GPU in all of the revisions of the MacBook can barely choke out 30fps in UT2k4 at 640x480 with the lowest quality settings. I know this because I have one.

Considering you have a MacBook, Wii, and DS, you wouldn't necessarily notice the poor connection quality either because of the games you are playing, or because of the fact that they run so terrible to begin with.
I might note that I play my Xbox 360 and PS3 online over a 802.11g connection, so you, sir, sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

EDIT: I'm also playing over a wireless connection.
 
I've played WarHawk with wifi without any hitches, so there you have it.

Ed H, have the triggers changed on the DS3 or not?
 
It's a good thing when the popular choice differs from that of mosx's likes. I would rather not live in a world of self proclaimed gamers that are nothing less than elitist snobs that don't know what it is to really game, but instead rely on tech-fluff that's not relevant at all to what someone else defines as fun.

Mosx,
Maybe you should hop off your high hoarse and pick up a DS or Wii instead of making ignorant and flawed comments that are intentionally meant to be demeaning to others. But you probably conviently have both of the mentioned "gaming" systems. If you sound like a jerk, chances are you are one.

Your Wifi argument is flawed to the core, especially when considering most online games use very little bandwidth. Battlenet does what it needs with only about 5k from what I've read -- Oh wait, let me guess, Blizzard doesn't make real games? The upload speed on most high speed connections isn't even a mbit, that doesn't even tap out a B connection let alone any cabled connection. Are there lots of peeps sharing your connection?

I'll be buying a PS3 next year to play a GAME called Brutal Legends, not for Blue Ray, not to play my music, and not to stream my videos. The only thing that will change my decision on this, is if a PC, or Wii port is made available.

<]=)
 
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