Psystar to Challenge Mac OS X EULA?

[oldwatery]

Conspiracy Theory 1 and 2

I got to thinking about what lies behind this particular issue.
Now, the Kendall/Miami area might be known for its large amount of silicone usage .... but it is certainly not for computers 😉
Aside from those many practitioners of that dubious art, the area is well known for its huge quantity of lawyers.
As many have already posted, it looks like a law suit will ensue.
Now just suppose these likely lads go out and find a few more people, just like some of the posters who think Apple have a "monopoly", and instigate a class action suit.
Costs them squat other than a web site and some phony computer housing!
Plus.........
Mix in some good Apple Bashing press and what do you have ..... a sell off of Apple stock...even just a small one?
Anyone for shorting AAPL 😱

 

[attila]

I can't decide if they should win or fail, but I don't buy a mac because it's cheap, but because it's beautiful. Open Computer (terrible, terrible name) is not beautiful.

Also, they say it runs tested components. What is the deal with an "open computer" if you can ONLY run tested components?

 

[MattInOz]

Here is a post from the other thread, I highly encourage you to read it;

A Mac as a product is a computering appliance.
The product is the bundle you pay them to integrate the hardware and software to make it work, As a platform on which to run productive software.
Some of which they bundle in as well to get you started.
They assign a fee to do this for you, and put it on display.

You can offer to buy,
OR.....

You can choose to buy the hardware in pieces from other people, and integrate them yourself.
That may limit your choices of OS, API and UI systems, which will limit your choices for productive software. But that is your choice.

The post is suggesting it would also be illegal for a Builder to refuse to take on a project if you want to choose each piece of timber(lumber) he uses to build your house.

 

[oldwatery]

Wow, such a neutral and professional portrayal of Robert!

I don't care if he's a douche, if blog-journalism is to be taken seriously and treated more than just an economic phenomenon, then news coverage needs to be relentlessly even-handed.

I'd love to visit your dream world sometime 🙄

 

[Jpoon]

I can't decide if they should win or fail, but I don't buy a mac because it's cheap, but because it's beautiful. Open Computer (terrible, terrible name) is not beautiful.

Also, they say it runs tested components. What is the deal with an "open computer" if you can ONLY run tested components?

you don't have to buy it...
you could read the plethora of resources on the internet and build a much better clone than junky junk.

They're offering the less informed a decent price at dealing with the hassle of making the hackintosh.

It's going to have problems, because OSX only works with specific hardware. So you're limited to hardware that Apple generally puts in their computers.

 

[toughboy]

So what you are suggesting is Apple to sue the people who buy OpenMac?

No offence but that sounds very stupid. 😕

 

[e12a]

The guy's analogy about Honda is flawed. It would work if he said Honda made cars and roads (keyword: made) and only kept you on their roads.

Apple is a hardware and software company. Without the revenue from sales of their Macs how can they continue to develop software?

 

[stevegmu]

you don't have to buy it...
you could read the plethora of resources on the internet and build a much better clone than junky junk.

They're offering the less informed a decent price at dealing with the hassle of making the hackintosh.

It's going to have problems, because OSX only works with specific hardware. So you're limited to hardware that Apple generally puts in their computers.

Doesn't firmware have something to do with making a Mac a Mac and PC a PC? One can't just get a tech report from iSupplii, buy every component in a Mac, put it together, pop in a retail Leopard disk, and expect it to work.

 

[Sir Cecil]

He's cut his own throat by saying "What if Honda said that, after you buy their car, you could only drive it on the roads they said you could?"

Fact is, plenty of vehicle owners are told which roads they can and can't drive on. Are Honda bikes allowed on all roads and bridges? I suppose if he was driving a Honda, he's think it entitled him to drive on privately-owned roads too, despite the PRIVATE PROPERTY signs.

 

[Sun Baked]

Can they sell this machine and preinstall OS X without any altered Apple files or drivers?

aka, EFI bootloader only ... no hacks to the Mac OS X after they install it, though additional files may be ok (not something replacing an Apple file/driver.)

I don't know the state of the OSx86 project.

If they sell a hacked OS on the machine ... bring the KY Jelly.

---

Sure hate to be the guy at the other end of the Phone when a guy with an Apple Corporate credit card calls... and you have hacked drivers.

Can you send 20 to Apple HQ, 20 to our Lawyers, 20 to Nvidia, 20 to Nvidia's lawyers, etc.... all with the OS pre-installed?

 

[Rot'nApple]

While I would love to get a TRUE Apple system for less $500.00, I would hate to think of sloppy looking generic computers systems being slapped together with Heaven knows what identification name or number or combination of both to name them and touted for it's greatness because it can operate OS X. If it didn't come from Apple, it's not a true Apple. I can go to my local auto junkyard and find car scraps of every component needed to build a car, but just because I can slap on a Mercedes Benz badge on the hood does not a Mercedes Benz it make. Apple's hardware industrial designs are as much a part about having a Apple computer as is the OS itself! SJ killing the clone program was the best thing he could have ever done for that company.

I don't know law. Not a lawyer, but I just read Apple hired a top corporate lawyer Charles Charnas, and that he will report to Apple's General Counsel and oversee the company's "intellectual property" among other duties. Perfect timing, get to work.

Regarding EULA and from the comments I read about how they won't hold up in court. What if Apple were to change the EULA to a contract, simply stating that the owner of this computer agrees not to transfer or install Apple's OS to a non-Apple machine. Have it signed by said owner and sent bact to Apple either by mail, e-mail or fax back to Apple. That way no one has to deal with DRM aggravations, people can still upgrade their computer OS and Apple has a contract (of course all computer owners will have to be over 18 to avoid contracts with minors being voided). Will it stop some from using OS X on a "Open Computer"? Like the iPhone, no. Can Apple go after a user who breaches the contract? The RIAA sued some people for file sharing of music, so what is to stop Apple, besides PR.

In any event, I hope Apple is able to nix this. To those who could care less about the computer hardware, just give me the internals to run OS X, would you get a Cubic Zirconia for your brides wedding ring or an actual Diamond Ring? I don't mean to equate Macs with the same prestige of a wedding, but I am curious. 🙄

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Also, they say it runs tested components. What is the deal with an "open computer" if you can ONLY run tested components?

I hadn't thought of that! What the heck is the point of these computers then? they won't work unless you use just their hardware (unless you can flash it yourself)

 

[big.birdd]

remember that if pystar wins, osx will probably have to go up to about 600$ or something ridiculous. Its underpriced at the moment because you have to buy ridiculously expensive apple hardware to use the thing. So apple will just jack up the price of their OS to make up for their lost profits, we will probably end up in just about the same boat as before.

 

[Jpoon]

Doesn't firmware have something to do with making a Mac a Mac and PC a PC? One can't just get a tech report from iSupplii, buy every component in a Mac, put it together, pop in a retail Leopard disk, and expect it to work.

Thus, why I said one is going to have problems with third party hardware if it's not similar to what they actually throw in Macs....?

 

[Ploki]

that guy is an idiot, his car/road analogy is idiotic.
e12a: exactly

jpoon (and other alikes): Why do you keep refering to mac pro as a "expensive better gaming experience"
please list me more than 4 games that use more than 2 cores for gaming..
Mac Pro is not a gaming machine, it has server rame for one,
server cpu(s) for second
it has been said a thousand times, get a PC for gaming.
jeez..

 

[Saladinos]

I doubt pystar will win. Apple's been doing this for years now, without problems.

You could argue that the fact that Windows is compatible with Mac hardware is due to Microsoft's effort in making their OS abstract to the hardware it runs on. Apple would be under no obligation to do the same.

The amount of debate on this topic just goes to show how hard it is being a judge, even in relatively simple civil cases such as this. On the one hand, you could severely damage Apple's commercial interests by ordering OSX to open up (and hence obligate them to support customers on a wider array of hardware than the system was designed for); on the other hand, you would be condoning what could be described as anti-competitive licensing measures.

While they're at it, I'd like to see less .Mac advertisements about the OS. Makes me sick.

 

[179462]

Ahem.. 2 Questions

Can you install the software without agreeing to the EULA? No.
Can you read the EULA before you insert the CD? Yes.
Does it present you with the EULA before you agree? Yes.

Which means you had not only the opportunity to read the EULA but you also had to AGREE to it if you installed the software.

I think that's pretty self explanatory.

Does anyone even remember why Apple is a closed system? Look at Windows, you want to use a new piece of hardware... install drivers. This is a painful process. Oh crap the driver kind of installed but now I can't uninstall... wait open the case up and remove the hardware and force the OS to remove the drivers.

Crap Windows no longer recognizes my network, lets play with settings for an hour only to get back to where it started only now it works. Now wondering if it was the 2nd or 3rd reboot that helped.

Closed system removes ultimate customizability but provides quality control and stability.

When it comes down to it you really want a quality computer that is stable and doesn't stop working randomly. This is why we use a Mac.

I'll give up customizability any day for a machine that JUST WORKS. And the fact that every Mac I have owned lasts me at least 3 years. Everyday, I simultaneously run XP VM, Ubunto VM, photoshop (3 to 4 50-100mb files), textmate, filemaker, safari, firefox, opera, itunes, adium, preview (many times over), mail and calendar; all of which are scattered over many desktops. I switch between them instantly. Every time I show a windows user my development environment they say "I think I'm going to get a Mac."

If you want to customize everything use linux.

 

[Jpoon]

remember that if pystar wins, osx will probably have to go up to about 600$ or something ridiculous. Its underpriced at the moment because you have to buy ridiculously expensive apple hardware to use the thing. So apple will just jack up the price of their OS to make up for their lost profits, we will probably end up in just about the same boat as before.

No they won't. More likely, developers would make it extremely difficult to install OS X updates on third party hardware... Problem solved?

 

[oldwatery]

What this is coming down to is a fanboy vs Basher thread.
No worries....that's cool.
What I don't understand is the Mac owners who are slagging Apple for providing the most tightly integrated and unbelievably wonderful computer experience in the history of the world.
Is it perfect...hell no...but life is not either. What you gonna do...shoot yourself.
If you don't like the product or price or "monopoly" buy Windows...as in life, there are always choices. 😀
Apple have changed the world we live in and it is not in a negative way.
As for these bozos from Miami...they are just looking for a fight.
Signed...A Fanboy.

 

[himansk]

My main concern is that the cheap PCs are made of parts that are not guaranteed to work in every config because they are cheap and the manufacturer of the parts cant afford to test it out completely. These components do not consist of just the hardware, they also have a software or driver attached to them. Same happens with the drivers, most usb products are cheap to buy, but then they also have frequent driver issues. apple has a standard set of components under their control, so they can write better drivers that will work in all configurations because they will test them on all configurations. also if a driver causes problems on the mac, it makes apple look bad, they dont want that, so they will fix any problems. compare that to any PC component manufacturer, nobody cares if their usb drivers fail every day, they can blame it on the cheap product and on windows, but they wont expect much from it either.
in this case, the open computer is still a cheap knockoff, it cannot be as stable as the apple computers, that stability is a major part of the experience of owning an apple system. the people who buy this, will end up complaining how osx is as bad as windows, but then they are using cheap substandard components instead of the better apple products so they shudnt really be expecting much anyway.

 

[Wild-Bill]

Jeeze.....

Fanboys out in FULL force tonight.... 😱

I love how some people on here think that Macs contain some special kind of hardware, that when magically put together at the factory in Shanghi they become Macs. Like the hard drives, memory, CPUs, and video cards are methodically sprinkled with some magical fairy dust that make them better than others. 🙄

Hardware is hardware, people. The only things separating Macs from PCs are the external casing and the operating system. That's it.

There are essentially two kinds of people bitching about this: the people who don't know how to build a computer & the people who bought a Mac and are pissed that there is an opportunity for someone else to come along and get the Mac experience paying a lot less than they did.

 

[dejo]

Even outdid M$ and went a step further with Safari being forced down PC users throats without even a choice.

You mean they weren't able to uncheck the box to install Safari? And they weren't able to select the Safari option and choose Tools > Ignored Selected Updates? Wow, outrageous! 😉

 

[wildmannz]

Yes!

That "Robert" guy sounds like a dips**t. If that is who psystar elects to represent the company, then psystar has little chance of taking on Apple.

Thanks! LMAO - I wholeheartedly agree.
If he really thinks that - he hasn't thought this through or worked through the implications with a lawyer.
Great move for publicity - but that same publicity is going to completely wreck his company.

 

[oldwatery]

Jeeze.....

Fanboys out in FULL force tonight.... 😱

I love how some people on here think that Macs contain some special kind of hardware, that when magically put together at the factory in Shanghi they become Macs. Like the hard drives, memory, CPUs, and video cards are methodically sprinkled with some magical fairy dust that make them better than others. 🙄

Hardware is hardware, people. The only things separating Macs from PCs are the external casing and the operating system. That's it.

There are essentially two kinds of people bitching about this: the people who don't know how to build a computer & the people who bought a Mac and are pissed that there is an opportunity for someone else to come along and get the Mac experience paying a lot less than they did.

Jeeze...Bashers are out in full force tonight too.

I for one don't want to know how to build a computer.
And if it's so easy why don't you go the next step and write the OS?
Macs don't contain anything special and I've not read anything on this thread that suggests they do.
It's all about the integration.
Windows integrates well with many systems but you pay the price.
If that is the price you are willing to pay then that's fine.
I'm not.
Your comment suggests you don't know how that works or how important it is to a stable easy to use computing experience.
When is the last time you added an accessory to a Windows set up?

 

[qtip919]

remember that if pystar wins, osx will probably have to go up to about 600$ or something ridiculous. Its underpriced at the moment because you have to buy ridiculously expensive apple hardware to use the thing. So apple will just jack up the price of their OS to make up for their lost profits, we will probably end up in just about the same boat as before.

wow, you assume alot when making a claim like this.

1st off, people need to calm the frak down and realize that even IF this guy was successful in doing this - really - how many people would buy this thing as dodgy and complicated as it is.

Look, people buy macs because they want a clean, simple user experience. Not to save money and run a hacked OS.

That being said, and extremely small portion of people like to hack it up on their wednesday evenings and try to get some macintel computer work. Those people, however, are desperately in need of a life