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Psystar to Challenge Mac OS X EULA?
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There isn't any need to use the EULA or their lack of reseller status to shut them down.
Since they are offering to sell a copy of the OS preinstalled, and they will have downloaded a cracked version of the OS off the internet in order to do this simple feat -- shutting them down as pirates and letting them talk to the DOJ is easier.
Don't think the DOJ will take kindly to pirates thinking that if they sell a pirated copy of the OS for $21, that tossing a copy of the OS in the box will void it out -- especially if you are charge full whack for that 2nd copy.
Hey here is a copy of X-brand software that you cannot use, but if you buy that we will sell you this hacked copy that we downloaded off the net for a huge discount off retail... it is an awsome 2 for 1 deal.
Probably time to stop debating on an imaginary product made by a fake company that changed its street address 3 times in a week, and MOVE ON to a real story.
IBM Division Investigates Corporate Mac Migration Feasibility
https://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/16/ibm-division-investigates-corporate-mac-migration-feasibility/
IBM Division Investigates Corporate Mac Migration Feasibility
https://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/16/ibm-division-investigates-corporate-mac-migration-feasibility/
You are correct about this, but here is where the problem is, the people who use hackintosh and made their PC into hackintosh understands that there is possible of instability, these people know where to go when something goes wrong.
But do the people "without a clue" know where to find help? Do Psystar have a bunch of people for customer support?
I think this company is a Hoax and if its April Fool, it will sure be a good fools joke.
can you all say "unemployeed"?
better yet, bankrupt.
this company must want to go out of business for their 15min of fame. that or the worker is simply shooting his mouth of to get his.
amazing what people do. I wonder if he even knows what EULA stands for... its not some ugly girls nickname.
heres one. End Us Laughing Apple.
Sir, your 15min, have expired. Do people really want OSX this bad on something thats ugly? Macs have many things going for them. Even without seeing one turned on, they stand out very much from the PC market in terms of design.
better yet, bankrupt.
this company must want to go out of business for their 15min of fame. that or the worker is simply shooting his mouth of to get his.
amazing what people do. I wonder if he even knows what EULA stands for... its not some ugly girls nickname.
heres one. End Us Laughing Apple.
Sir, your 15min, have expired. Do people really want OSX this bad on something thats ugly? Macs have many things going for them. Even without seeing one turned on, they stand out very much from the PC market in terms of design.
I know the BSA probably got a lot of people trying to claim the million reward for piracy -- so this is likely a very poorly planned event that may end with them staring down the barrel of a gun held by an FBI agent, or a local agency that wants in on the press coverage of busting a piracy ring.
Is there anyone on this thread who lives close enough to the area to drive by and shoot some photos of the locations and post 'em here? I'd do it if I lived anywhere near Miami-Dade, but I live elsewhere in the Land of Xanth.
(waits to see how long it takes before someone here gets the reference)
(waits to see how long it takes before someone here gets the reference)
That's really funny. You must have a crystal ball to know how "upgradable" the Psystar system is... the specs listed online are rather short on real technical details regarding much of anything. For example, what's the FSB on the motherboard? What CPUs can it support? How many PCI slots and what types? PCI Express x16 available? What's the max memory and how many slots? Is it a micro-ATX board or full-size ATX?
Do yourself a favor and do some research on the Net regarding the subject of OS X on generic Intel boxes and learn a little about what you'd be getting yourself into... Make an informed buying decision. Live long and prosper... yadda, yadda, yadda.
RacerX wrote:
Your Apple hardware is your license key to run the Mac OS. Apple hardware is the physical dongle to unlock the Mac OS.
Not true. Not mentioned in the EULA terms. Mac OS has never been locked. While your analogy might have merit in a conceptual way, it is not part of the EULA.
I'm guessing that you have... what, zero experience with either Apple or Macs?
Perhaps not as much experience as you do but I bought my first Mac June of 1984. I still have it. I have Macs that run Sys 6.0.8, 7.1, 7.6.1, 8.1, 8.6, 9.2.2, and 10.4.8. I cut the memory chips off my 128K motherboard and did my own 512K upgrade in 1985. I have recapped SE/30 motherboards and installed SCSI upgrades in 128K & 512K Macs. I wrote software for the Mac in the 80's & 90's. What does either of our expierences with Macs have to do with the EULA and PsyStar issue at hand?
It is the law. Apple put forward these methods, and any attempt to circumvent them is illegal.
Really? Since when does Apple pass laws? Apple can only put forth its licensing terms and a court will decide if the terms are enforceable. Apple can get legal protection for its IP through copyright, patents, trade secrets, and contracts. When you say illegal what specific laws are being broken by PsyStar?
This is stealing... plain and simple.
If it is stealing why is Apple getting $129 for the copy of OSX? If it is theft all Apple has to do is file a criminal complaint with the local athorities. Plain and simple, there is no theft here as long as PsyStar is buying OSX from Apple or its dealers.
An Apple service provider can put (for free) Mac OS 8.5 or 8.6 on that system (because it originally shipped with it). The fact that who ever sold it lost the original media isn't Apple's fault, but you do deserve to have the original OS it came with. Any version of Mac OS X would be considered an upgrade from either 8.5 or 8.6 for that system.
Not true. I called the Apple Store in Orlando, FL Jan of 2007 and asked to get OS 8.5 installed on my B&W G3. They would not do it. I was told my only option was to buy an OS 8.x CD off of ebay and do it myself or have them install OSX (for a fee plus the cost of OSX). Maybe they should have done as you state but the fact is they didnt.
Your Apple hardware is your license key to run the Mac OS. Apple hardware is the physical dongle to unlock the Mac OS.
Not true. Not mentioned in the EULA terms. Mac OS has never been locked. While your analogy might have merit in a conceptual way, it is not part of the EULA.
I'm guessing that you have... what, zero experience with either Apple or Macs?
Perhaps not as much experience as you do but I bought my first Mac June of 1984. I still have it. I have Macs that run Sys 6.0.8, 7.1, 7.6.1, 8.1, 8.6, 9.2.2, and 10.4.8. I cut the memory chips off my 128K motherboard and did my own 512K upgrade in 1985. I have recapped SE/30 motherboards and installed SCSI upgrades in 128K & 512K Macs. I wrote software for the Mac in the 80's & 90's. What does either of our expierences with Macs have to do with the EULA and PsyStar issue at hand?
It is the law. Apple put forward these methods, and any attempt to circumvent them is illegal.
Really? Since when does Apple pass laws? Apple can only put forth its licensing terms and a court will decide if the terms are enforceable. Apple can get legal protection for its IP through copyright, patents, trade secrets, and contracts. When you say illegal what specific laws are being broken by PsyStar?
This is stealing... plain and simple.
If it is stealing why is Apple getting $129 for the copy of OSX? If it is theft all Apple has to do is file a criminal complaint with the local athorities. Plain and simple, there is no theft here as long as PsyStar is buying OSX from Apple or its dealers.
An Apple service provider can put (for free) Mac OS 8.5 or 8.6 on that system (because it originally shipped with it). The fact that who ever sold it lost the original media isn't Apple's fault, but you do deserve to have the original OS it came with. Any version of Mac OS X would be considered an upgrade from either 8.5 or 8.6 for that system.
Not true. I called the Apple Store in Orlando, FL Jan of 2007 and asked to get OS 8.5 installed on my B&W G3. They would not do it. I was told my only option was to buy an OS 8.x CD off of ebay and do it myself or have them install OSX (for a fee plus the cost of OSX). Maybe they should have done as you state but the fact is they didnt.
That covers the box they send with the machine, but since that box doesn't work on the PC ...
That leaves the other copy of the OS they SELL YOU for a profit ... which happens to be a hacked/cracked version of the OS they download off the internet.
They are selling you two copies, one valid, one pirated ... which one are they likely to get in the most trouble for selling?
Edit: guess which copy they are loading onto the PC ... points to you if you guess the cracked version they are pirating. These people have already been turned into the relevant organization for piracy (most likely since they offer a million dollar reward for turning in businesses doing it) and Apple cannot do anything about it if this group acts, and they are considered the software version of the IRS in tactics, software audits, and raids.
the open computer
i wonder that.. how is the open computer's stability, since its not a real mac (i guess), and how about the updates from apple's official release? if apple do something new of security in the coming osx updates, then maybe get trouble to solve it ....
i wonder that.. how is the open computer's stability, since its not a real mac (i guess), and how about the updates from apple's official release? if apple do something new of security in the coming osx updates, then maybe get trouble to solve it ....
Including, quite prominently, your own.
Setting aside the fact that this whole thing is a sham from a phantom company, your understanding is deeply flawed.
It doesn't need to be Florida law, nor does it need to be a statute. Psystar has no right whatsoever to sell systems with OS X installed, whether the copy they're using is a retail copy or not. It's simply not theirs to distribute. It goes far beyond the EULA. There's no such thing as a PC which can install OS X unmodified, and therein lies the problem, independent of licensing restrictions, which Apple is free to enact.
Breach of contract is illegal. Contracts are law. They wouldn't work if they weren't.
Based on what? Certainly not the EULA, which has a choice of law clause. Not based on civil procedure generally, which recognizes no such finite forum selection. You don't really seem to understand the concept of personal jurisdiction at all, particularly with regarding to haling out of state defendants.
They retain the exclusive right to control distribution of the OS. They have positioned themselves as the sole vendor of hardware, and the trademark issue doesn't wholly vanish just because Psystar changed their name. Psystar is not just a reseller of CDs, nor is the issue payment for the Leopard disc.
That's a fairly obtuse argument. Apple controls the price of OS upgrades in the retail channel because the original, full license is integrated into the cost of the hardware. Their sales strategy relies on this licensed hardware as a mechanism favorable to consumers and to the company. The price charged is predicated on a preexisting license by virtue of owning Mac hardware.
Signs point to "no" on that one.
Sure, if you're selling those cars as alternatives to Ford vehicles without being licensed to do so.
You're regulating behavior without a rational basis and without a tangible benefit offered to the consumer. Cf. selling a movie through an online stream at a token price (say, $1) substantially cheaper than a DRM-protected persistent download or a physical DVD. If the streaming movie is $1 for the express reason that you are only allowed to view it on a certain platform and/or without retaining any persistent copy, then yes, such a restriction is likely permissible.
Based on?
The end user would be required to apply hacks. The machines they ship would be enjoined from being pre-hacked to allow installation from the retail DVD (if they really would send a retail DVD with the machine).
You've got that backwards. There's no law striking down EULAs generally.
I have been working first hand with Apple (often times representing my clients) on these types of issues... specially for graphic design firms where they had a ton of Macs and we had to figure out site licensing with Apple for upgrading the OS on those systems.
That type of experience... DIRECTLY DEALING WITH APPLE ON LICENSING ISSUES was the answer to your original question ("How do you conclude that it is an upgrade?").
DMCA. Read it. Learn.
Apple doesn't make these laws, the US Government does. Go and read the laws for your self. These laws were enacted to protect makers of computer software from having their products usurped by others.
If you actually have software writing experience, you should already know about this stuff... so why are you playing dumb here?
I said an Apple service provider can, I didn't say that they all would. Heck, most people who service Macs today wouldn't know the first thing about older systems and Apple itself will not support anything older than a few years (10.2 is no longer supported by Apple).
I don't work for Apple, I work for my clients. Apple doesn't pay me, my clients pay me (and every so often I have to pay Apple for technical references on their products).
I provide technical support for every piece of Mac hardware and operating system going back to System 0.98 and the Macintosh 128 (though I haven't worked on anything older than a Plus in a few years). I have every Macintosh operating system from System 0.98 to Mac OS 9.2.2, A/UX 1.0 to 3.1.1 (though I've only actually worked with 2.0 onwards), Rhapsody 5.0 to Rhapsody 5.6, Mac OS X Developer Preview 3 to Mac OS X v10.5.2, and a number of AppleShare releases. I also have (and supply support for) other operating systems acquired by Apple like NEXTSTEP 3.1 to OPENSTEP 4.2 (which Apple continued to sell until 1999 and support until 2001). I can guarantee you that you won't find that depth of support at ANY Apple Store.
I can legally provide an installation of the original operating system for any Apple hardware I come across. Additionally, I can do the same for any clone I come across or any NeXT Computer I come across (though I'm limited to providing only NEXTSTEP 3.3 plus Patch 3 for NeXT hardware without a previous OS accompanying it). Again, I can guarantee you that you won't find that depth of support at ANY Apple Store.
Mac users should know that you rarely turn to Apple for anything more than a few years old. You should be looking for an independent service tech like myself if you want your older hardware/software to function correctly. Apple will suggest that you buy a new system where someone like me can get an old one up and running again like new.
Tell me something... if you wanted a car that was worth $20,000, and you took it but left $10,000 for the original owner (be they a dealer or private person), would you be convicted of stealing?
Psystar hasn't yet delivered anything. I could say that I am going to steal the Mona Lisa, but really I haven't done anything wrong until I make an attempt to actually do it.
People... the logic here isn't that hard to grasp. And wishing that it wasn't so isn't going to change the facts of the matter.
OSX86 - Hackintoshes
You can have a brilliant, stable OSX system running on hardware less than half the price of a pwetty, but overpriced (frankly extortionate, inflexible and straitjacketed spec and always out-date and behind the times) Mac.
What are Apple actually proud of - the hardware (looks only) or the OS - if its the OS then stand up and be counted and sell it on its own.
What if Apple said you could only use their memory, or their electricity, or their printers - it wouldn't be tolerated - neither should Apple only hardware - wake up!
What would happen in MS acted the same...
You can have a brilliant, stable OSX system running on hardware less than half the price of a pwetty, but overpriced (frankly extortionate, inflexible and straitjacketed spec and always out-date and behind the times) Mac.
What are Apple actually proud of - the hardware (looks only) or the OS - if its the OS then stand up and be counted and sell it on its own.
What if Apple said you could only use their memory, or their electricity, or their printers - it wouldn't be tolerated - neither should Apple only hardware - wake up!
What would happen in MS acted the same...
Good question... So how many Xbox clones are there on the market? Has there been a public outcry for Microsoft to release the operating system of the Xbox to other game station makers?
What has happen with Microsoft acting the same way as Apple (making the whole widget)?
Just an aside, MS would get out of the console hardware business if Sony or Nintendo would agree to use MS Xbox OS on their next console. Somehow they got Sega to agree with the Dreamcast. But Sony and Nintendo refused, so here we are with the Xbox 1 and the 360.
Come on people. Wake up! What the hell is really going on here with lots of "new newbies" showing up with serial obtuse posts arguing the equivalent to " the IRS and U.S. income taxes are illegal", and "old newbies" popping up out of the blue after months of absence, to yet again bash apple. And everything started by a couple of fly-by-night (literally and figuratively) scam artists offering the latest cold fusion process with every box of "Nutsos" purchased. For the unaware, this is options expiration week and aapl is one of the hedge fund darlings for manipulation. That may have absolutely nothing to do with the original Moron Twins offering out of the "honest as the day is long" state of Florida, but I'm sure it accounts for some of the postings by watercarriers on this board. Don't be guppies. Don't fall for the level of reasoning bought into by talk radio callers and listeners.
Isn't putting non-apple RAM in your mac against the EULA? Apple chooses not to enforce this, but still.
