Probably be good to review the sequence of events that happen when Mac OS X boots before making "suggestions" ...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Psystar to Challenge Mac OS X EULA?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Probably be good to review the sequence of events that happen when Mac OS X boots before making "suggestions" ...
Here is what you think happens: I buy a computer without operating system. I want to install MacOS X. The only company selling MacOS X is Apple Inc. Apple Inc doesn't allow me to install MacOS X on my computer, but only on Apple-labelled computers. That is bad. Apple should be required to allow installation of MacOS X on my computer because they have a monopoly on MacOS X.
Here is what really happens: I buy a computer without operating system. I check the market which operating systems are there to buy. One is MacOS X. The only company selling MacOS X is Apple Inc. Apple Inc doesn't allow me to install MacOS X on my computer, but only on Apple-labelled computers. This makes MacOS X a bad choice for me and my intended use. Other operating systems are Linux and various versions of Windows. Both can be installed on my computer with permission of the seller. I educate myself about prices, quality, and compatibility with my computer and buy the one that seems the best choice.
The second a machine ships with OS X pre-installed the hammer of god will descend on these bozos.
Are they going to sit there and install each machine from a fresh install disk (accepting the ELU)? No. They will have a single image of a cracked (and probably pirated) version of OS X. Either way - Apple will have them for something and they will be toast. Until then we probably will hear nothing.
Of course it remains debatable whether these idiots will ever ship anything. Apple my still do interesting things to them though, so they really are in a no-win position.
I agree it COULD be done, but like I have been saying all along, it would not help Apple in any way, it would only hurt them. Imagine you buy a bunch of hardware because you want to build your very own fake Mac. Roughly $500 for some ok hardware that may be comparable to a Mac Mini just in a larger case and more expandable. Then you buy OSX $129. After taxes and everything you are looking at $650ish. Now lets assume this is the average consumer that cant even install their own ram and has the geek squad do it for them. They now need to find someone or pay someone to put the system together. Say $50-$100 for the setup and the install. Were looking at $700. Well after the install you find out crap my wireless card isnt supported. Well there goes another $20-$50 maybe more for a wireless N. Plus then we have to have it installed. Say the guy is nice and gives a discount $25. We are easily at $775 maybe upwards of $850-900 for a crappy rip off. Now I know you are going to say well I know how to put together a computer and install an OS because most of us on here do, but the fact is we are the minority. Most people CANT do these simple things, hence they are buying a fake Mac online expecting a real Mac product. Now all the people that just spent near $900 have a Mac that may run ok, but its not supported by Apple so if they have any problems they have to take their computer back to their tech to be fixed/updated to 10.5.3 or along the way apple changes some major component. There are so many scenarios were this turns into a nightmare for Apple. As is they have a great product at a reasonable price. I agree ram is way overpriced, but besides that most Mac products are priced on par with their equals in the windows world. Usually they are slightly more, but its a price that I am willing to pay to keep my OS running 100x better then any windows alternative, plus I can run windows if I so choose. The only people that are really complaining about this are people that dont own Mac's. To cheap to go buy the real thing but want it to work great on cheap equipment.
Ummm.... Apple created Mac OS X for err... Macs.
Kind of like how just today I wrote some software to interface with a specific database, perform some business functions, and output the results into another database. I am under no obligation to make my software work with another database "just because somebody wants it to". Either they pony up the cash to make it worth my while, or I don't do it (and I get to say if it is worth my while - I'm busy doing other things anyway).
You don't have to make your software work with my database, but if I buy your software from you, shouldn't it be my right to also write some sort of driver/plugin so that it does? No one's asking Apple to change the OS in any way whatsoever. Some people are just claiming it's illegal or unenforceable to put the "You can't use this anywhere but on our machines" clause in their EULA.
No. THE EULA explicitly says that you don't get to go pocking around in there. Don't like it? Take a hike. I didn't spend all this time and money on development just to have so dipstick come in and put me out of business.
Oh.. but if you do hack around and screw things up (this has happened), I'll be more than happy to charge our special consultancy rates to fix it (always nice to hit the income targets for the year with only two weeks work).
aoresteen, you asked how apple has been damaged? I cant believe you could miss it. Apple makes money selling OSX for $129. The version of OSX that is being used on these computers is a hacked version most likely downloaded off bit torrent. In this case Apple does not receive any royalties for their software. It would be the same as stealing. Thats how they are damaged. Again I ask everybody this, do you understand what it takes to install a hacked version of OSX on a beige box? Please at least understand the concepts of whats going on here before posting. By all means I will keep defending my position, but stop bringing stuff that has no point or is completely wrong. I am going to link to some articles to read up on this for anyone that doesnt understand.
OSX install on a Beige Box
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
What is a Monopoly? The business defanition give the best example for this debate.
http://www.answers.com/monopoly?cat=biz-fin
A little more about whats going on.
http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9919432-37.html?tag=newsmap
Plus refer to a post a page back that gives you a little input on the feelings of the great guys that work on the OSX86 project.
OSX install on a Beige Box
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
What is a Monopoly? The business defanition give the best example for this debate.
http://www.answers.com/monopoly?cat=biz-fin
A little more about whats going on.
http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9919432-37.html?tag=newsmap
Plus refer to a post a page back that gives you a little input on the feelings of the great guys that work on the OSX86 project.
Man I thought you were coming around to.
You are right no one is asking Apple to change the OS in anyway. They in turn are not changing the OS. What you are missing though is Apple has allowed users to screw around with stuff and get it working on other hardware. What Apple is stopping here is the illegal use of their OS without any compensation. Psystar has used a hacked version of their OS found on most bit torrent sites without and royalties then they are selling it for profit. See something wrong with that? Uhm kind of reminds me of people stealing windows vista and not paying for it. Which oddly enough is also illegal.
Sort of sad that each company has a monopoly on their product and complains when you try to stick their product in another companies container and sell it.
I know Coke and gets a little miffed when you take Coke and stick in a set of cheap Pepsi-brand paper cups you bought from your restaurant supply store. Especially if Coke is your preferred soft drink supplier and they are paying you (via discounts) to advertise their product.
---
There is another OS sitting out there ready for the plucking. It has a built-in fanboy base, but would take some money and time to solve the ownership issues -- probably still fewer problems than creating an OS from scratch though.
If Amiga OS 4.0 is ever snapped up by a PC company, I'd fully expect that OS to be locked to a specific piece of hardware controlled by one company.
<sigh>
The whole entire point here is that the legality of the EULA is in question. Your argument begs the question (in the proper sense of the phrase--google it), and therefore does not support the Apple case in any way whatsoever.
As for your special consultancy rates...that's pretty blatant opportunism, and might not be the best moral ground to stand upon.
I am waiting for the outcome of the EULA battle, this will be interesting, but EULA or not Psystar is stealing OSX and not paying any royalties to Apple = illegal.
EULAs are contracts. Contracts are legally binding. What is it specifically about the contract/EULA with Apple and the use of OS X that you think is unreasonable?
If you ever coded for a living you'd think differently.
You missed what I stated. No one knows what PsyStar is loading as so far the machines are vaporware. You can't know that the copy is a hacked version off of bit torrent.
If, as PysStar states that they are, they are buying a LEGAL $129 genuine Apple copy of OSX and loading it, then Apple has been paid the price that Apple has asked for. This is the cicumstance under which I was asking what are Apple's damages.
If PsyStar is using a bittorrent version then of course Apple is damaged by the piracy.
Well if they are buying OSX from Apple, then yes it falls back to the EULA debate, but I seriously doubt they are. Have you tried to take a valid OSX disk and modify it to work on a non Apple computer? I have, it takes a lot of time patience, and hacking. Thats assuming that they checked the OSX86 website and have hardware that is compatible with OSX. The time it would take to do this realy would not justify the return profit. That is unless they are using an illegal pre-hacked OSX. In which case it could still be a pain, but it would take a lot less time, but also be illegal. In the end I still dont understand, the hardware that can run properly is almost the same as apple itself sells and its not that much cheaper. Why go through all this hassle just buy a mac.
They are offering to sell you a hacked version of the OS for $21, they either did it themselves or simply downloaded it -- doesn't matter which, they are selling you a copy of hacked/cracked OS for money.
The legal copy is there, unusable and simply their internet lawyer telling them it makes the pirated copy legal. Yeah, right.
If I had known everything I do today, I would have been sending in my chance to the www.bsa.org anti-piracy site for a chance at their $million payday a week ago.
With the BSA offering so much money to stop them, it is plain stupid to put up a site in the US offering to sell pirated SW like these idiots did.
---
If they did it themselves, more power to the script kiddies who can follow directions for DIY hacking.
They've only proven they can read and follow directions, not write their own code.
---
EDIT: Have to hand it to a group of idiots, challenging the EULA by pirating the OS.
What is next for them. Do they plan to earn money for PETA, by clubbing baby seals?
I have been running Leopard on my Custom Desktop PC for a few months, no problems what so ever!!
Wow congratulations you’re one of the few. There don't you feel better now? You’re special!
Edit: I'm sorry that was rude, but I have spent all night trying to explain to people how this is not a straight forward install. Then you come along and are like oh look at me, nope it works perfectly. Well the truth is you are one of the few. I have been around the OSX86 project forums for a while now and almost everyone has problems. Once you get the install down it works ok, but then you still have to worry about the updates. Most updates are not straight forward. All I have been trying to say is with non-apple hardware you do not get the full apple experience. Save the money and the headache, grow up and BUY a mac.
Edit: I'm sorry that was rude, but I have spent all night trying to explain to people how this is not a straight forward install. Then you come along and are like oh look at me, nope it works perfectly. Well the truth is you are one of the few. I have been around the OSX86 project forums for a while now and almost everyone has problems. Once you get the install down it works ok, but then you still have to worry about the updates. Most updates are not straight forward. All I have been trying to say is with non-apple hardware you do not get the full apple experience. Save the money and the headache, grow up and BUY a mac.
The poster. Who knows what the alleged friend really said or thought, just what the poster understood the alleged friend to have said or thought. Why have all the newbies crawled out of the woodwork to keep this crap going? This whole thing is a goddamn mobius strip.
Well you got me on that one, I had to look up mobius strip, never heard that one before.
Well I guess you do learn something everyday. I agree its a mobius strip!
There's a really good Sci-Fi short story about a mathematician who gets trapped in a 2-D mobius strip. I wish I could remember who wrote it. ( Maybe Bradbury?)
Well you got me on that one, I had to look up mobius strip, never heard that one before.
8 track tapes.