Thats very true.. But if the big manufacturers are pushing for ARM, they will have to respond, thats what I really meant.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Qualcomm Looking to Combat Apple Silicon With New Generation of PC Chips
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
This is what Intel truly feared. Apple moving to M1 was an insult, but not a threat. This is a threat.
Their competition really is Intel and AMD. Apple's success helps them by showing the "PC world" the art of the possible. They'd however still need Microsoft to create a more viable path for more software to be ported over from X86 to RISC (ARM) and provide ongoing dual support for both architectures.
If apps on MacOS start running circles around the same apps on Windows on x86 and Linux in the server room starts to migrate largely to commodity ARM based hardware, Microsoft will support ARM.
They won’t anger HP, Intel and AMD just to run in Boot Camp, but when there’s a proper PC industry around ARM, Microsoft will want to remain relevant.
oh right, it's about the anonymous glory of being a chip designer and arriving second to market.
You people are forgetting that the PC market is not entirely just Windows.
While I doubt Qualcomm will be able to come up with a chip that beats whatever M variant Apple has when they release the Q chip, there is still a huge market for iPad clones and Chromebooks... both of which could erode the low cost and developing world markets.
While I doubt Qualcomm will be able to come up with a chip that beats whatever M variant Apple has when they release the Q chip, there is still a huge market for iPad clones and Chromebooks... both of which could erode the low cost and developing world markets.
I’ve turned down CPU design jobs that would have paid me more money. For reasons like (1) I wanted to design a more challenging chip (2) I wanted to design a chip that would have more of a market impact (3) I wanted a more senior role (4) I wanted to work on a design from scratch and not just on spins of old designs (5) I wanted more responsibility.
AMD famously lost almost its entire california design team at one point because of reason (4).
Good. Don't give Apple any excuses to rest on their laurels. Keep the magic coming.
Will they continue to try to flog CISC to death or try to go down the RISC route and hope people don't notice?
Last edited:
I think they’ll struggle, unless Apple hits a brick wall with a future design and loses ground as a result.
Qualcomm chips have never been the coolest either, so whilst they may get near Apple in terms of speed, I expect power / temperature will be the compromise to get there.
Qualcomm chips have never been the coolest either, so whilst they may get near Apple in terms of speed, I expect power / temperature will be the compromise to get there.
I don't see Microsoft as the obstacle here: they've already committed to making native ARM Windows for its own devices (and have put a lot of time/effort into seamless x86-on-ARM emulation), so they're not going to be the hold up. The main thing that's missing are non-Apple ARM chips that offer all-day battery life in a laptop while still offering "fast enough" performance for the average person, even with emulated apps.
Once the translation layer is smooth enough and the chips are fast enough, Intel and AMD are going to have a hard time keeping hold of the large and profitable "I just need a laptop for school/office" market who don't need or care about high-performance apps.
EDIT: The main roadblock I can imagine is Intel and/or AMD playing hardball with computer companies, threatening price hikes or supply constraints on their own chips if they start experimenting with general consumer ARM models beyond Chromebooks.
Qualcomm is not new to this business though... they already produce the Snapdragon chip that is in many Android phones and tablets. In may ways Qualcomm has been following Apple for many years and has nearly as much experience in chip design.
The main issue is can they create a power variant which could rival desktop processors.
The main issue is can they create a power variant which could rival desktop processors.
Lofty goal, but I wish them the best. This will also give Intel time to produce high quality smear ads targeting Qualcomm.
If Qualcomm thinks they can produce an ARM SoC that can compete against the best Apple M-series designs, I wish them lots of luck.
But what really has to scare everyone is what happens when some game publisher writes an AAA game completely in the Apple Metal framework to work under MacOS. With the M1 Pro/Max not needing the the overhead of the external I/O between the CPU chip and separate GPU card, the results could be astonishing, even without some of the niceties you get with separate GPU boards.
But what really has to scare everyone is what happens when some game publisher writes an AAA game completely in the Apple Metal framework to work under MacOS. With the M1 Pro/Max not needing the the overhead of the external I/O between the CPU chip and separate GPU card, the results could be astonishing, even without some of the niceties you get with separate GPU boards.
Qualcomm will never match Apple's quality on their chips, but I can see them giving Intel the boot in the future when ARM and RISCV chips start to take over. Since Apple isn't going to sell their chips to anyone else, there could be a couple of things that could happen in Windows/Linux/Fuchsia (Android/Chromebook replacement) land: PC manufacturers will make their own (Microsoft, HP, Samsung, etc) or rely on places like AMD, NVIDIA and Qualcomm for their new chips.
AMD is fully exploring their ARM license beyond server machines.
AMD is fully exploring their ARM license beyond server machines.
This has nothing to do with it. It is a competition because regardless of whether they use software optimization or not, it's interesting to see how far they can push the performance and efficiency without relying on OS optimization. That's why A/M chips are successful because it's not the sheer power. Imagine if someone can get close to the efficiency and performance without using their own OS/hardware as Apple does.
You'll have to wait until Nvidia gets in the game and starts baking their GPU tech into their ARM SOCs. It may be Windows 12 by then but MS will move to ARM at some point and devs will eventually follow.
Apple has never been known for high salaries, and Apple is notorious for being a rough work environment for engineers.
And if you tell a CPU designer "We'll double your pay and improve your work/life balance" you're going to get some takers.
That's great there are more ARM competitors with upcoming Samsung Exynos with AMD RDNA2 graphics and whatever Qualcomm comes out with but the reality is the CPU architecture with the most software always win so x64 will remain king. I'd pay a premium for 3nm x64, 3nm dGPU and HBM3 or GDDR6X unified memory.
Well, Qualcomm were making Snapdragon processors with their own modified ARM-v7 (scorpion, krait) cores when Apple was using Samsung cores. The first entirely Apple designed core was swift, which was in the A6.
Qualcomm lost the race when Apple developed the A7. It responded with a really rubbish rushed (with unmodified ARM designed cores) hot and power sucking Snapdragon 810 and at that point completely lost the lead.
Its current offerings are based on ARM designs (semi customised) and tend to be fairly toasty.
Qualcomm seems to have all but abandoned building completely customised cores for modifying ARM designs. I would argue that their current experience of chip design is probably far below Apple as it stands.
Interesting. Intel is being shoved into the background more and more. Will they buy someone to get into the game?
Will Intel buy Qualcomm? *Could* Intel buy Qualcomm? Does Intel have anything that Qualcomm would want? Fab plants? Archaic silicon designs? Bad managers? Wretched PR campaigns? Hmm...
Will Intel buy Qualcomm? *Could* Intel buy Qualcomm? Does Intel have anything that Qualcomm would want? Fab plants? Archaic silicon designs? Bad managers? Wretched PR campaigns? Hmm...
That's great! Hopefully they'll provide some fast power efficient chips able to compete with Apple Silicon. These ARM technology if taken up by other companies can really help push forwards the whole computer industry. Power efficiency is actually great for the environment so imagine if they can do whole server clusters based on ARM, for giants such as Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc? That would mean a lot less power consumption for the whole industry, so this can only be good news for everyone.
the most profitable gaming segment is the mobile one...so x86 is second to arm infrastructure since 2018
Of course they do! But compensation takes many forms! A chip designer at Apple probably takes home a hefty paycheck, but he's never going to strike it rich since the company is mature and any stock options or bonuses reflect that. If said architect went to a startup, on the other hand....those designers that left Apple and started Nuvia are now multi-millionaires.