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Clearly you are not reading the room. If everyone is now making ARM chips, the future of Intel and x86 is looking really dire. I give Intel 10 years tops before they go under. Now you know why they are putting out those Apple bashing commercials. They are worried.
Nothing has changed in the last 5 years. Qualcomm and Apple have been developing ARM chips for devices for a while.

Intel is threatened by the changes, and their 12th generation chips are a good showing of them using their resources to respond to the market demand of more efficient processors.

Had Intel had the 12 gen performance and efficiency 3 years ago, I doubt Apple would have seriously considered releasing the M1 on MacOS. Status quo is the safer bet than shaking up the market.
 
Had Intel had the 12 gen performance and efficiency 3 years ago, I doubt Apple would have seriously considered releasing the M1 on MacOS. Status quo is the safer bet than shaking up the market.

This is false
 
Nothing has changed in the last 5 years. Qualcomm and Apple have been developing ARM chips for devices for a while.

Intel is threatened by the changes, and their 12th generation chips are a good showing of them using their resources to respond to the market demand of more efficient processors.

Had Intel had the 12 gen performance and efficiency 3 years ago, I doubt Apple would have seriously considered releasing the M1 on MacOS. Status quo is the safer bet than shaking up the market.

Apple has been planning this for a lot longer than 3 years, and 12 gen proves them right. Efficiency is better than 11th gen, but is nowhere near what they get with their own processors.
 
another chipset with no video games?

If and when anyone cracks AAA PC games on Arm it would be Nvidia with their SOC not QCOM. Given that AAA games require similar CAPEX to major movies the installed base has to be exceptionally large. Even Apple, with double digit "PC" market share, is way too small to capture any interest from the major game publishers.
 
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If and when anyone cracks AAA PC games on Arm it would be Nvidia with their SOC not QCOM. Given that AAA games require similar CAPEX to major movies the installed base has to be exceptionally large. Even Apple, with double digit "PC" market share, is way too small to capture any interest from the major game publishers.
Apple should buy a game studio and create exclusives for their products. They were willing to spend the money for AppleTV+, why not this too?
 
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Qualcomm is late to the party.

Haha! The competition is good but Good luck!

Apple silicon chip is just way too good. Real talk!

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Apple only looks good at the low-end, At the high-end ARM based multicore CPUs are way more powerful than the M1 Max. See the link below and notice it is over a year old.

The current high end is 80 ARM cores at 3.3GHz and 1 terabyte of RAM.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/03/ampere-altra-is-the-first-80-core-arm-based-server-processor/
 
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Im sure that Qualcomm, Samsung, Huawei....all had someone in a room somewhere cross sectioning and de-engineering every layer of an Apple m-1 chip the day it was released, if not before.
 
Apple should buy a game studio and create exclusives for their products. They were willing to spend the money for AppleTV+, why not this too?

Why would Apple want to lose money for their investors ? IF the ROI was there existing publishers would already be developing for the platform. Burning significant money to produce original AppleTV content is a bet that the currently low subscription base can be expanded. How much can you expand the Mac market by creating a few original games considering that it's supported by content creators ? The low hanging fruit was allowing iOS games to run on macOS. There are no shortage of investment opportunities that would make more strategic sense but still don't pass the NPV test. Investments like NAND or manufacturing capacity instead of dealing with Foxconn.
 
Apple only looks good at the low-end, At the high-end ARM based multicore CPUs are way more powerful than the M1 Max. See the link below and notice it is over a year old.

The current high end is 80 ARM cores at 3.3GHz and 1 terabyte of RAM.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/03/ampere-altra-is-the-first-80-core-arm-based-server-processor/

I'm very familiar with Ampere. You're comparing two things that are not even in the same universe by using the Arm keyword and not fundamentally understanding what you're comparing. I could also compare SpaceX rockets to lawnmowers since they both use a combustable fuel.
 
Why would Apple want to lose money for their investors ? IF the ROI was there existing publishers would already be developing for the platform. Burning significant money to produce original AppleTV content is a bet that the currently low subscription base can be expanded. How much can you expand the Mac market by creating a few original games considering that it's supported by content creators ? The low hanging fruit was allowing iOS games to run on macOS. There are no shortage of investment opportunities that would make more strategic sense but still don't pass the NPV test. Investments like NAND or manufacturing capacity instead of dealing with Foxconn.
They can try to expand into the gaming market with a unified platform of Mac, iPad, and Apple TV with good exclusives.
They can sell more Macs and TVs and also make money on games sold in the App Store. Why does this make less sense than original content on Apple TV+? If anything it makes more sense. Gaming is a bigger industry than film, it's a weak spot in Apple's ecosystem, and there is a hardware angle to it, unlike TV+ which is totally disconnected from Apple's other products.
 
Clearly you are not reading the room. If everyone is now making ARM chips, the future of Intel and x86 is looking really dire. I give Intel 10 years tops before they go under. Now you know why they are putting out those Apple bashing commercials. They are worried.
Luckily, intel has fabs. So worst comes to worst, they'll just fab others' chips like TSMC does.
 
Apple has been planning this for a lot longer than 3 years, and 12 gen proves them right. Efficiency is better than 11th gen, but is nowhere near what they get with their own processors.
Yes and all of that research would have gone into A15+ had they not decided to switch to M1 for Macs.

Kinda a chicken and the egg, but without the M1, Intel would have not have focused on efficiency as much. Again status quo and Intel was the top dog even if they weren't the top performer.

Apple marketshare is at about 10% at least for laptops... and that is a significant hit for Intel to loose Apple's business but it is no where near what would be required to unseat Intel from their throne.
 
Apple has a history of successfully moving the entire Mac market to different cpu architectures on multiple occasions. Despite numerous attempts at cracking the x86 market, with alternative architectures, it's never happened so saying that it's possible just because Apple had success is a false comparison. Even Intel couldn't do it with "Itanic" despite being the 800 lbs gorilla at the time. I'm sure Nuvia has improved QCOM's design so snapdragon mobile users will benefit. Their push into autos will also bolstered. For x86 I can see MS being a partner with the Surface line and for products like tablets. Mainstream migration of x86 will be extremely difficult because it's not just about a superior CPU. Even something with 10x better metrics is not enough if numerous other factors don't pencil out. Heck, even AMD has struggled with laptop market share despite having a far superior product, with Intel stuck in neutral, and the Zen CPU was already x86. That should give you some insight on how much resistance there is to change in the PC HW and SW market.
Agree. I feel x86 will remain on Windows side for some time, and any transition to ARM won't happen anytime soon.

First, the ARM hardware offerings themselves from the likes of Qualcomm are still weak. Their performance are not there yet to replace intel, unlike Apple Silicon.
Then comes the second problem, the emulation. This relies on Microsoft, and considering the legacy baggage of x86, it hill is way higher than Apple's.

Although the time will come for ARM transition if x86 is not getting improvements in efficiency in the next 5-10 years, the transition itself will take decades. I mean look at 32bit to 64bit. Even today, Windows still lives in a mixed 32bit and 64bit world, while Apple is completely 64bit for years already.

On the bright side, it actually comforts me, that if I am looking for a new Windows laptop, I'm not concerned of being obsoleted by ARM in just a few years.
 
They can try to expand into the gaming market with a unified platform of Mac, iPad, and Apple TV with good exclusives.
They can sell more Macs and TVs and also make money on games sold in the App Store. Why does this make less sense than original content on Apple TV+? If anything it makes more sense. Gaming is a bigger industry than film, it's a weak spot in Apple's ecosystem, and there is a hardware angle to it, unlike TV+ which is totally disconnected from Apple's other products.

It's not that there's no benefit as there clearly would be. The company does extensive marketing research on what exactly moves product and by how much. It then becomes a question of how to maximize return. Keep in mind that the company can also just do something as direct as share buybacks which has an immediate benefit to share price, the ultimate metric. The VOD market is drastically different than Mac, iPad, or iPhones. Subscribers do respond rapidly to key content which is why every service is fighting over content production and licensing despite astronomical costs.
 
How do you think they got to being worth 2 trillion dollars?
That’s not how market capitalization works, it works by investors purchasing a certain stock and when purchased, the market capitalization rises of this certain company, they only have 370 billion dollars in revenue per year and only 70 billion dollars cash on hand.
 
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Apple has never been known for high salaries, and Apple is notorious for being a rough work environment for engineers.

And if you tell a CPU designer "We'll double your pay and improve your work/life balance" you're going to get some takers.
No, Apple has very generous offerings especially in bonuses and stocks with an above-average salary with excellent working conditions
 
If Qualcomm (and others) can get their act together, the value proposition in a year or two will be "very fast, hot laptop with 6-hour battery life and 100% software compatibility" versus "fast enough, cool-running laptop with 20-hour battery life and 99% software compatibility".
I don't buy it. My x86-based work laptop easily lasts an entire work day, is more than fast enough for anything I use it for, and doesn't get more than hand warm at worst. By 2023, AMD and possibly Intel CPUs will be manufactured using a comparable process like the TSMC process that is used for the Apple M series, and the efficiency will likely be equivalent.
 
I don't buy it. My x86-based work laptop easily lasts an entire work day, is more than fast enough for anything I use it for, and doesn't get more than hand warm at worst. By 2023, AMD and possibly Intel CPUs will be manufactured using a comparable process like the TSMC process that is used for the Apple M series, and the efficiency will likely be equivalent.
Yes but even longer battery life in a smaller lighter package isn’t to be sneezed at. If Windows arm can deliver in the end like MacOS in M1, why not?
 
They can try to expand into the gaming market with a unified platform of Mac, iPad, and Apple TV with good exclusives.
They can sell more Macs and TVs and also make money on games sold in the App Store. Why does this make less sense than original content on Apple TV+? If anything it makes more sense. Gaming is a bigger industry than film, it's a weak spot in Apple's ecosystem, and there is a hardware angle to it, unlike TV+ which is totally disconnected from Apple's other products.
You are looking at the situation from a perspective of what it currently is.

I would say that the iPad has nurtured a generation of kids very comfortable playing iOS games. The iPad is 11 years old. The kids are turning into teens now.

My take is Apple is just going to let nature takes it's course, while at the same time preparing the infrastructure with AS.
 
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