Most likely you are right. But they have to make a first step and if it means low power Windows machines then that is a good thing for the environment.
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Qualcomm's M1 Rival to Be Available in PCs by Late 2023
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Looking forward to mass adoption of ARM, and x86 finally left behind.
If it can't do 32-bit now, I don't see anything stopping them from doing it later.
Not only that, but this is essentially one company designing hardware for other companies doing the software. There is no way two entirely different companies can cooperate to the same extend and efficiency that the teams within Apple can.
In other words, Microsoft will always have to tailor their product to whatever it is Qualcomm decides to put out there. What little bi-directional cooperation there could be, will not have the same bandwidth and not reap the same benefits that Apple’s approach does. This alone will put Qualcomm on the back foot.
It's the same with x86 CPUs and also all GPUs. And Windows gets the best support for the latter. There's no way Qualcomm is going to make whatever without cooperating with their biggest stakeholder.
The hardware advantage I can see Apple having in the future is in specialized accelerators. The trend is away from having the CPU (and even GPU) do everything. That requires much tighter hardware-software integration.
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Fantastic news! The sooner the better. But don’t forget that this is a joint project with Microsoft who are not only developing their own processor, but have just as many cpu engineers as Apple has.
Correct and as much as I despise Windows for my own reasons, I am not dumb enough to discount Windows out altogether. My wife still loves her Dell laptop and I do not try to
force anything Apple on her although she has quite a few products now.
I doubt this will actually result in any sort of meaningful competition for Apple. Not least because the unique user experience afforded by their products is derived from a number of factors coming together, and custom silicon is simply one part of the overall equation.
I guess I am also more than a little sick and tired of seeing this hackneyed phrase about more competition supposedly being good for everyone. Probably because I don’t think it’s applicable here at all.
Apple friends-don’t sleep on what Qualcomm is doing. They are a major company that has lots of resources and also the resources of Microsoft. Microsoft is desperate for a platform to run Windows for arm on. They are working with Qualcomm on its platform and also developing a platform in-house.
They fully understand that x86 is a old,tired ,outdated architecture.Apple made this jump and they got there first because they could leverage the work that they had done for the iPhone and iPad. Now the pc world is desperately looking to catch up.
Microsoft is throwing money at this in a very big way.
if you are only interested in the Mac, this will still have a effect on you as Apple has to respond to what happens on the PC side of the computer business.
But please don’t just write this off and say that Apple is so far ahead that no one can catch up. Microsoft can and will catch up. They will try very hard to surpass what Apple has done. It’s still a open question if they can pass Apple, but I have been working with them for around 30 years and I will say that I won’t ever bet against them.
They fully understand that x86 is a old,tired ,outdated architecture.Apple made this jump and they got there first because they could leverage the work that they had done for the iPhone and iPad. Now the pc world is desperately looking to catch up.
Microsoft is throwing money at this in a very big way.
if you are only interested in the Mac, this will still have a effect on you as Apple has to respond to what happens on the PC side of the computer business.
But please don’t just write this off and say that Apple is so far ahead that no one can catch up. Microsoft can and will catch up. They will try very hard to surpass what Apple has done. It’s still a open question if they can pass Apple, but I have been working with them for around 30 years and I will say that I won’t ever bet against them.
Sounds like a chicken and egg problem once again. Developers won't port their apps over to ARM if they don't think the user base is there, and OEMs won't use ARM processors if there aren't apps for those, and I am not sure if Microsoft cares enough to move the needle in either direction.
We will just have to see, I suppose. My impression of Microsoft is that they have all these grandiose ideas of whether to take technology, but always fumble at the execution part.
Microsoft has all the vision they need, they just can't execute, or when they do, it's too early or too late and they show up at the party like a half inflated balloon, or cripple the product in a small but meaningful way. I mean, when the iPad came out everyone was like "MS did tablets years ago". I remember them. They *sucked*. Absolutely ***** product. Terrible.
I mean, you can look back at some of the promotional videos and stuff they released 30 years ago about connected homes, media center PCs, all that ****, and it all mostly came true. They saw it. They knew it was coming. And they blew it.
In contrast, Apple's ideas may not sound as exciting on paper, but they almost always deliver as promised, and they do improve the user experience in tangible ways, and at the end of the day, that's what gets people to spend. Not visions of grandeur, but actual products that deliver.
It’s a new day,and a new Microsoft. But yes like any company,in the end they will have to deliver.
Throwing money and resources at the problem won't give you a better CPU so this is the wrong metric for forecasting success. This is why AMD produced a significantly better x86 CPU with 1/10th the resources of Intel. Samsung has unlimited resources but have not produced a leading mobile application processor yet. The team that created the original CPU that Nvidia is using for data centers had 15 people. Google has unlimited resources and even a strong brand but their chip team is a mess. There are a lot of steps in the CPU creation process that require quality over quantity. Quality of talent is everything in CPU design and that's not something you can scale easily.
Interesting how some people can't imagine for this chip to be competitive with whatever the current generation of silicon is when it launches. That's the same logic Apple-Silicon-Nay-Sayers applied when they trashed it before we even knew what it was. Apple has made huge improvements, but unless they have some other groundbreaking innovation up their sleeves it is possible to catch up to them in a couple of years.
I guess the biggest question will be: can Qualcomm acquire a competitive process node in sufficient quantities? The best SoC design is worth diddly squat if you have to print it on 7nm in 2024.
I guess the biggest question will be: can Qualcomm acquire a competitive process node in sufficient quantities? The best SoC design is worth diddly squat if you have to print it on 7nm in 2024.
Having a laptop that doesn't burn your lap or sound like a vacuum cleaner when it's under load is a nice feature for everyone.
It’s still vapourware. Think its telling they are shooting for “the performance tier”, so likely M1 Pro level rather than straight M1. Which is interesting, considering M1 is in more products rather than only premium laptops.
Well its not every day that a new computer architecture reaches the PC market, good luck to them. I reckon Windows on Arm laptops will stay fairly niche though.
Well its not every day that a new computer architecture reaches the PC market, good luck to them. I reckon Windows on Arm laptops will stay fairly niche though.
Inteks problem is how archaic the x86 architecture is, especially in performance per watt.
Qualcomm’s problem is really in the business model. Apples tight control of both hardware and software is what enabled them to design Apple Silicon SOCs focused to Mac specific needs.
Qualcomm will need to support a dozen different manufacturers that will demand a dozen different tweeks. They will want every different USB and DVI protocol supported, etc. some will want a lot of GPU cores, some will want none.
Qualcomm will be pulled in a lot if directions without having a lot of resources. They will have to make some smart decisions or they will end up with too many different SKUs, each increasing per unit costs by lowering individual chip volumes.
This will primarily be competition for Intel. Apple PCs are also more than just the SoC, it’s the integration of all parts that makes a Mac. But: competition is good!! Bring on the next gen Intel/Amd/Qualcom chipsets! I wonder what NVIDIA will do, their powerhungry GPUs seem to be heading for a thermal dead end…
Apple will be coming out with more powerful chips by then. But will be nice to see a competitor.
There will be another attempt at Windows on ARM (or Windows on Snapdragon) via the Lenovo X13s this year, before the Nuvia-designed chips come out in 2023:
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/coming-soon/thinkpad-x13s-13-inch-wos/len101t0019
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/coming-soon/thinkpad-x13s-13-inch-wos/len101t0019