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Qualcomm's M1 Rival to Be Available in PCs by Late 2023
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That's a silly comment. Qualcomm isn't in the X86 / 64 business so no X86 is not and never was in their future. The truth is that modern X86 chips aren't as different from ARM as people here seem to think they are. What holds X86 back is the mountains of legacy instruction sets required for backwards compatibility and not RISC vs CISC which is almost just a compatibility layer at this point. Chip production is more profitable when they are smaller because then each wafer will yield more profit. Apple is less concerned with that mindset and if you compare an 'A' series chip to a Snapdragon chip you'll see the Apple chip is considerably larger. That's a big part of Apples advantage is they don't need to worry about designing a chip for resell to other companies like Qualcomm or Intel. It will be interesting to see how this pans out but going forward it won't be an easy layup for Apple.
I’m sure China will be at it as well, probably named the Xi1, Xi1 Pro, Xi1 Max, Xi1 Ultra and Xi1 Super Mega Better Than Apple
Good. Hopefully, there will be options for Windows and Linux users for Arm and RISCV based SOCs. Depending how well they sell, then the real conversation about X64-86 survival will begin. I hope Intel will become a very competitive foundry in the future.
This is the interesting bit - it would seem their only market is... either making phones go faster (which would be fine but is not a new quest, and the target they call out, the M1, was specifically designed not for use in phones), or they're looking to put in a laptop, and that would seem to mean either a Chromebook, or a ARM-based Windows laptop.
I don't recall "stunningly fast performance" ever being a selling point for Chromebooks, people buy them because they're cheap and cloud based. And... is ARM-based Windows that much of a thing? Is Qualcomm doing this work based on the hope that ARM-based Windows is going to really take off?
It just seems like a weird position. Apple appears to be the one shipping large numbers of high performance general purpose ARM-based laptops, and Apple's obviously not going to have any interest in buying these processors from Qualcomm.
I like that the x86 market it about to be shaken up a bit more. I think are in for an interesting few years as ARM starts to cover more ground. I think that when another big player like Dell or HP start releasing ARM computers, Intel and AMD need to start getting a little nervous. I think ARM is the future.
Bring it on! Excited to see what the rest of the industry will cook up in response and the inevitable counterplay by Apple
Exciting times ahead
Exciting times ahead
Apple has no competition.
If someone wants to run macOS and macOS applications, they’re buying a Mac, regardless of what it costs. If the number one priority is having the best price/performance in any tasks/applications that are cross platform, they’re always going to find that in a non-Apple system.It may help keep prices lower on the PC side as Qualcomm competes on price, but no impact on the Mac side.
So Apple develops a revolutionary SoC that grabs everyone’s attention, and now others are scrambling to catch up. It’s so weird because, having read these forums for many years, I’d concluded that Apple doesn’t innovate anymore because their phones still have bezels.
If I recall correctly, there is a MS/Qualcomm agreement that Windows will only run on Qualcomm Arm chips. I don't know much of the detail or sunset dates. I think that's much of the reason that we don't see more Arm Windows machines out there-- it may be a necessary restriction in the short term to keep MS and Intel on good terms, but it's a restriction none the less.
If we think that Arm will continue to outpace x86 performance into the future, and I for one believe that, then Windows will need to have a path to Arm and Qualcomm is that path at the moment. I'm kind of surprised that Qualcomm isn't doing more to press their exclusivity, frankly-- maybe they truly were taken by surprise when M1 shipped and they're launching from a standing start.
Regardless, I'm sure Qualcomm is going to want to capture as much glow from the M1 halo as they can while they can.
Translation: Qualcomm will be 3 years behind by the end of next year
I'm not so sure it's good for competition, because clearly Apple did not make their own processors to "outcompete" anything on the PC side. They made those processors because Intel was stagnating and they couldn't meet the performance and efficiency of what they wanted to do in their own computers.
I'm not so sure it's wise of the Windows side to try to be what it's not. Want to improve quality of life for people on the Windows side of the spectrum? Theoretically, they have so much advantage. Most of the world still uses Windows. Most major software is primarily designed for Windows. Gaming is almost exclusively on Windows. But people go to Macs for various reasons: security, integration, buttery smooth speed, and now performance among many other reasons. But the big one that has historically been Apple's selling point is that the computer is reasonably reliable and does not give you headaches. Are there exceptions, yes. But generally speaking the average person can easily keep a Mac for 5-7 years and even after it stops receiving OS updates, as long as you can still get security updates it is still actually a usable computer on a day to day basis. And it's pleasant to use the whole time.
For PCs to achieve it's greatest potential, maybe that does mean making arm based chips. But I think "making it less miserable" should be the main focus across the entire PC side:
- Raising the bar for build quality across the board
- Raising the bar for battery management and battery life
- Can someone on the PC side make a usable trackpad lol, it's 2022 already, Apple has had great trackpads for literally 14 years now
Those are sort of the basic things that can be worked on. That's not even asking for the significantly more complicated and hairy issues that is hard for a more decentralized platform like Windows to support, such as better HiDPI support, features similar to airdrop/continuity/handoff, etc. If you can literally just figure out basic hardware stuff and make consistent, high performing, reliable products with good battery life that don't die on you randomly after 2-3 years I think Windows would be a great option.
I myself have been using both a Windows and Mac for the last few years and the Windows PC suffered from -- mind you, this is in an expensive, business class, excellently spec'ed PC laptop:
- hilariously short battery life (wipe out 50% in 2 hours)
- 1920x1080 res that defaults to 150% on a 13.3" screen is literally unusable
- battery that began expanding and popped open the bottom case after 2 years
- lag in regular use (eg, internet) that was unacceptable with an SSD and 16 gb ram
TLDR: dear PC world, you're never gonna be the next Lebron, just focus on what you can do better!
I'm not so sure it's good for competition, because clearly Apple did not make their own processors to "outcompete" anything on the PC side. They made those processors because Intel was stagnating and they couldn't meet the performance and efficiency of what they wanted to do in their own computers.
I'm not so sure it's wise of the Windows side to try to be what it's not. Want to improve quality of life for people on the Windows side of the spectrum? Theoretically, they have so much advantage. Most of the world still uses Windows. Most major software is primarily designed for Windows. Gaming is almost exclusively on Windows. But people go to Macs for various reasons: security, integration, buttery smooth speed, and now performance among many other reasons. But the big one that has historically been Apple's selling point is that the computer is reasonably reliable and does not give you headaches. Are there exceptions, yes. But generally speaking the average person can easily keep a Mac for 5-7 years and even after it stops receiving OS updates, as long as you can still get security updates it is still actually a usable computer on a day to day basis. And it's pleasant to use the whole time.
For PCs to achieve it's greatest potential, maybe that does mean making arm based chips. But I think "making it less miserable" should be the main focus across the entire PC side:
- Raising the bar for build quality across the board
- Raising the bar for battery management and battery life
- Can someone on the PC side make a usable trackpad lol, it's 2022 already, Apple has had great trackpads for literally 14 years now
Those are sort of the basic things that can be worked on. That's not even asking for the significantly more complicated and hairy issues that is hard for a more decentralized platform like Windows to support, such as better HiDPI support, features similar to airdrop/continuity/handoff, etc. If you can literally just figure out basic hardware stuff and make consistent, high performing, reliable products with good battery life that don't die on you randomly after 2-3 years I think Windows would be a great option.
I myself have been using both a Windows and Mac for the last few years and the Windows PC suffered from -- mind you, this is in an expensive, business class, excellently spec'ed PC laptop:
- hilariously short battery life (wipe out 50% in 2 hours)
- 1920x1080 res that defaults to 150% on a 13.3" screen is literally unusable
- battery that began expanding and popped open the bottom case after 2 years
- lag in regular use (eg, internet) that was unacceptable with an SSD and 16 gb ram
TLDR: dear PC world, you're never gonna be the next Lebron, just focus on what you can do better!
It will be interesting to see what Qualcomm produces. Competition is good but I doubt they will be able to catch Apple.
I still think most of the PC industry outside of Apple does not realize the importance of software and UI uniformity. Yes, they will catch up and maybe even outperform Apple's chips. Yes there will be good competition, but most of the software (not just the OS) is absolutely crap. I am not saying Apple's software is perfect but it hands down beats any other option out there. Windows 11 is really good, but irks me to no end with the outdated components still being used. The quality control with any other PC manufacturer is in a sorry state. Would love to change that instead of just playing catchup.
I’m really curious to see how it actually stacks up. I think it’s going to be a challenge!
If we follow the current trend, M2 Max and Ultra should be showing up toward the end of 23. Qualcomm has a major uphill fight on its hands.
If Windows marched their software updates on the same schedule Apple does 50% of Windows software simply wouldn't keep up. Lots of Enterprise apps only have one version that's even compatible with Windows 10 since 2015. 2015 was iOS 9 era. Many manufacturing systems still run Windows 7 or XP even because the new software doesn't support existing machines worth millions.
Microsoft has to keep all that baggage available with some form of compatibility even in Windows 11. Or they would leave tens of thousands of businesses behind. And businesses and business software (Servers, SQL, Visusl Studio, etc) is what pays Microsoft's bills, they make little money off PCs.
Why do people keep assuming Qualcomm is skating to where the puck is?
I want to see different architecture be introduced, survive and thrive. I grew up with 6502, 8088, 68000, x86, DEC Alpha, SPARC, MIPS, PA-RISC, Clipper and PowerPC and having my choices be between Intel and AMD is like my choices between spring water and seltzer water. Both are good but not really that great. More arch’s the better.
No, it seems this is a generation or two after 8cx Gen 3. Gen 3 has been available in samples for a few months now, whereas this is announced for late 2023.
If this is true, please explain Siri; older than Alexa and Google Assistant, more expensive than either, and considerably worse.
Not sure what kind of Siri you got, but mine came free.
Predictable.
Just like with the iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch, Apple got the ball rolling...
Now everyone will follow.
Anyway I'm glad to see a shift to this new way of making chips.
Just like with the iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch, Apple got the ball rolling...
Now everyone will follow.
Anyway I'm glad to see a shift to this new way of making chips.