Radeongate III, 2011 MBP. A third graphics failure

[Queen6]

That's totally different from my direct experience. Before the current 13" MBP (2015) my 15" MBP (late 2011) was hotter than this, but surely NOT HOT.
During my normal usage temperature doesn't pass the 45°C level, staying around 38-40° C almost all the time.
Only handbrake and iMovie could rise temperature above that level, but no more than 80-84° C, not an extremely hot value for an i7 quad core.
My previous 15" MBP (2009) and its C2D surely was hotter than that....
I wouldn't say the 15" MBP is hot or noisy. Far from that....

Ultimately it`s related to your usage and your point of measurement, from my experience the Quad Core i7 in the 15" MBP easily and repeatedly hit`s high 90 C - low 100C, across multiple models over multiple years of ownership. This is CPU core temperature, not CPU proximity. The acid test is that the 15" frequently gets physically hot to the touch, the 13" rarely the same.

I still have one 15" rMBP and I can easily push it into three figures centigrade, with it`s vastly superior cooling system. My daughter has my previous 2011 15" so I am well versed with these systems. I don't dispute your stated temperature values, equally they are not CPU Core temperature, as what you are describing is not physically possible, short of running the Notebook in a freezer.

It`s entirely possible for monitoring software to be over 20C out of sync as is illustrated here with SMC Fan Control vs Intel Power Gadget, neither application is inaccurate, rather user interpretation is key. I work in an industry where electronics packages are designed & tested to environmental extremes inclusive of thermal cycling, I can assure that what Apple implements with the 15" MBP is far from a recipe for longevity.

Q-6

 

[Max(IT)]

Ultimately it`s related to your usage and your point of measurement, from my experience the Quad Core i7 in the 15" MBP easily and repeatedly hit`s high 90 C - low 100C, across multiple models over multiple years of ownership. This is CPU core temperature, not CPU proximity. The acid test is that the 15" frequently gets physically hot to the touch, the 13" rarely the same.

I still have one 15" rMBP and I can easily push it into three figures centigrade, with it`s vastly superior cooling system. My daughter has my previous 2011 15" so I am well versed with these systems. I don't dispute your stated temperature values, equally they are not CPU Core temperature, as what you are describing is not physically possible, short of running the Notebook in a freezer.

It`s entirely possible for monitoring software to be over 20C out of sync as is illustrated here with SMC Fan Control vs Intel Power Gadget, neither application is inaccurate, rather user interpretation is key. I work in an industry where electronics packages are designed & tested to environmental extremes inclusive of thermal cycling, I can assure that what Apple implements with the 15" MBP is far from a recipe for longevity.

Q-6

that's a problem with YOUR Mac, mate.
On mine, SMCFanControl and Intel Power Gadget have a difference of less than 5°C

 

[Queen6]

that's a problem with YOUR Mac, mate.
On mine, SMCFanControl and Intel Power Gadget have a difference of less than 5°C

On the 15" that you no longer own...

If you want to keep believing that the 15" has no issues with temperature so be it. A 15" MBP under load will result in significant difference between CPU Core & CPU Proximity as they are physically separate sensors on a 2011 15" MBP, unless the system is at a complete idle, or is thermally saturated. Not even Apple can defy the the laws of physics & thermal dynamics.

Those that own and use the 15" in anger, understand the reality of the systems thermal limitations, specifically related to the dGPU, as ultimately this is the weak link in the chain.

IF you want understand more follow this thread through, you won't find any Quad Cores running at 80C here under full load, unless it`s severely throttling, if you think the author has a "problem" you can always contact him at Cambridge University's Department of Applied Maths and Theoretical Physics. 15" MBP runs hot under load and throttles dependant on the model, none of this enhances reliability.

maflynn was right first off "dead horses and flogging"

Q-6

 

[Max(IT)]

On the 15" that you no longer own...

If you want to keep believing that the 15" has no issues with temperature so be it. A 15" MBP under load will result in significant difference between CPU Core & CPU Proximity as they are physically separate sensors on a 2011 15" MBP, unless the system is at a complete idle, or is thermally saturated. Not even Apple can defy the the laws of physics & thermal dynamics.

Those that own and use the 15" in anger, understand the reality of the systems thermal limitations, specifically related to the dGPU, as ultimately this is the week link in the chain.

IF you want understand more follow this thread through this thread, you won't find any Quad Cores running at 80C here under full load, unless it`s throttling, if you think the author has a "problem" you can always contact him at Cambridge University's Department of Applied Maths and Theoretical Physics. 15" MBP runs hot under load and throttles dependant on the model.

maflynn was right first off "dead horses and flogging"

Q-6

you are mixing up things on purpose....
You were speaking about CPU temperatures for a GPU issue.
I showed you a screenshot indicating there are NO 20°C difference from SMCFanControl and Intel own tool , but just a couple degrees....
The screenshot if from my current MacBook Pro 13", but since it still use an Intel CPU I can't see why the previous 15" should have a different behavior in reported CPU temperature.
I saw my former MBP above 80°C a very few times. NEVER above 100°C.
I don't need to contact anyone since I have my degree (it's been a while....).

 

[Queen6]

Your simply painting yourself into a corner...

Q-6

 

[Max(IT)]

Your simply painting yourself into a corner...

Q-6

You are just trying to demonstrate something you don't have any clue about ...

This is what Apple say about the program:
Apple has determined that a small percentage of MacBook Pro systems may exhibit distorted video, no video, or unexpected system restarts. These MacBook Pro systems were sold between February 2011 and December 2013.

I don't see a reason to trust some unknown on a forum instead of Apple's official statement.

 

[Queen6]

Ever more so...

Q-6

 

[pat500000]

I disagree, and if it was just a hypothesis apple wouldn't have a repair program. Plus the OP has gone through this twice so clearly to him its more then a theory.

LOL. that's so true.

Whelp I went in and after about 30 seconds of whining they decided to hand me a new machine. So I went from a $1,500 refurbished 2011 Mbp, with a 500gb spinning drive, with 4mb of ram, to a $2,500 2015 rMBP with a 512SSD, 16 gigs of ram, and a faster processor. :-D I'm happy but it's really sad that it took a lawsuit to push Apple to take care of its customers.

Is that with apple care being valid?

 

[MagicBoy]

Is that with apple care being valid?

Doesn't matter - Apple give a 90 day warranty on the repair. The repair never lasted more than 4 weeks on my MacBook Pro, although that was before the extension programme.

 

[pat500000]

Doesn't matter - Apple give a 90 day warranty on the repair. The repair never lasted more than 4 weeks on my MacBook Pro, although that was before the extension programme.

What do you mean it doesn't matter? I bought my MBP 2011 late 15 from 2011. Apple care is done. What do you mean 90 days warranty? Unless you're talking about replacement program that could be used anytime.

 

[MagicBoy]

If OP takes it in within 90 days of the last repair then Apple care status is irrelevant.

Before the repair extension was announced I negotiated a free repair for a machine that was two and a half years old and out of warranty, and also got a replacement Mac after three failed repairs. Other than time and mileage it didn't cost me a penny.

 

[pat500000]

If OP takes it in within 90 days of the last repair then Apple care status is irrelevant.

Before the repair extension was announced I negotiated a free repair for a machine that was two and a half years old and out of warranty, and also got a replacement Mac after three failed repairs. Other than time and mileage it didn't cost me a penny.

Oh ok, you're talking about the replacement program.

 

[MagicBoy]

In the case of the OP, yes.
In my case, no.

 

[Max(IT)]

What do you mean it doesn't matter? I bought my MBP 2011 late 15 from 2011. Apple care is done. What do you mean 90 days warranty? Unless you're talking about replacement program that could be used anytime.

After every repair done by Apple, within or outside Apple care warranty, you have a 90 days warranty.
This is not related to the repair program.

 

[Max(IT)]

Doesn't matter - Apple give a 90 day warranty on the repair. The repair never lasted more than 4 weeks on my MacBook Pro, although that was before the extension programme.

So basically your MacBook failed after 3 years or 4, you have it repaired and it failed again after 3 months?
You are very unlucky or they used a defective replacement board.....

 

[Patrick-Photo]

So basically your MacBook failed after 3 years or 4, you have it repaired and it failed again after 3 months?
You are very unlucky or they used a defective replacement board.....

Here the program is open until 02-2016. I'm on my Fourth logic board (third repair) and they said it if fails before then they will look in a replacement machine (a new one outside of the program). This would be a Retina 15" with either a Iris Pro or one with a 750M (most likely a Iris Pro version).

 

[Max(IT)]

Here the program is open until 02-2016. I'm on my Fourth logic board (third repair) and they said it if fails before then they will look in a replacement machine (a new one outside of the program). This would be a Retina 15" with either a Iris Pro or one with a 750M (most likely a Iris Pro version).

hell, I'm shocked: 3 failed motherboards in a row ....
How much time it takes for the first failure to show up ? And after that ?
What kind of usage are you doing with your MBP ? Gaming ?

 

[MagicBoy]

So basically your MacBook failed after 3 years or 4, you have it repaired and it failed again after 3 months?
You are very unlucky or they used a defective replacement board.....

Incorrect. Please try reading the posts properly.

Late 2011 MacBook Pro. Initial failure at 2.5 years. First repair lasted 3 weeks, second lasted 2 weeks. Third lasted a couple of days. Machine replaced by Apple.

Hopefully the logic boards being installed under the repair extension programme are of better quality.

 

[Max(IT)]

Incorrect. Please try reading the posts properly.

Late 2011 MacBook Pro. Initial failure at 2.5 years. First repair lasted 3 weeks, second lasted 2 weeks. Third lasted a couple of days. Machine replaced by Apple.

it doesn't matter, the main sense was the same: your first logic board lasted some years, the replacements just a few weeks... That's quite strange.

Hopefully the logic boards being installed under the repair extension programme are of better quality.

It seems quite the contrary in your case !
According with your experience, my opinion is the replacements were refurbished logic boards very badly repaired.

 

[Queen6]

Incorrect. Please try reading the posts properly.

Late 2011 MacBook Pro. Initial failure at 2.5 years. First repair lasted 3 weeks, second lasted 2 weeks. Third lasted a couple of days. Machine replaced by Apple.

Hopefully the logic boards being installed under the repair extension programme are of better quality.

The boards are generally refurbished, hence the poor reliability rate. if you search here alone you will see that yours is not an isolated case.

Q-6

 

[MagicBoy]

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Back in a previous job when I did hardware repairs we'd generally get new logic boards for the first 12-18 months from all the big manufacturers. After that stock ran out they were generally refurbished.

 

[Queen6]

It`s a common practise. best thing you can do if your 15" MPB Logic Board fails, and Apple replace it with a refurbished one, is hit the refurbished one with all you've got. It highly likely the board will fail rapidly, then repeat, Apple will be compelled to do what they should have done from the start of this fiasco and replace the system with one that has an adequate thermal design.

Q-6

 

[Macaman]

On the 15" that you no longer own...

If you want to keep believing that the 15" has no issues with temperature so be it. A 15" MBP under load will result in significant difference between CPU Core & CPU Proximity as they are physically separate sensors on a 2011 15" MBP, unless the system is at a complete idle, or is thermally saturated. Not even Apple can defy the the laws of physics & thermal dynamics.

Those that own and use the 15" in anger, understand the reality of the systems thermal limitations, specifically related to the dGPU, as ultimately this is the weak link in the chain.

IF you want understand more follow this thread through, you won't find any Quad Cores running at 80C here under full load, unless it`s severely throttling, if you think the author has a "problem" you can always contact him at Cambridge University's Department of Applied Maths and Theoretical Physics. 15" MBP runs hot under load and throttles dependant on the model, none of this enhances reliability.

maflynn was right first off "dead horses and flogging"

Q-6

There is no point arguing with him Queen.... This dude adores Apple

 

[Max(IT)]

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Back in a previous job when I did hardware repairs we'd generally get new logic boards for the first 12-18 months from all the big manufacturers. After that stock ran out they were generally refurbished.

if refurbished lasts for a few weeks, something in the repair procedure is wrong...

 

[Queen6]

The refurbishment of complex micro electronic assemblies is difficult in the extreme, as heat often beyond the original design criteria must be applied in a localised area to remove and replace failed components, frequently resulting in the reoccurrence of the failure or further issue arising.

Several years ago, I was involved in a case study regarding the reliability of complex electronic assemblies post refurbishment. The results confirmed that the refurbished boards were 7-10 times more prone to failure. The boards concerned meet and exceed Mil Spec, temperature rated to 150C. Being refurbished by highly skilled technicians with all the appropriate equipment and working environment. The clear answer was to cease refurbishment and to only replace failed boards with new known good boards, as refurbishment was simply not cost effective. The cost of these boards - $40K USD.

In short it`s of no surprise that Apple is not in a position to successfully refurbish the Logic Board on a $2,500 Notebook in volume. Those with 15" MBP`s outside of any warranty may be able to source a third party specialist who can remove and replace the dGPU, equally assuming all goes 100% the best you can hope for is similar performance to the original Logic Board. You also need to be sure that the rework is done correctly as some may simply apply localised heat to the dGPU, which may in the short term allow the dGPU to function for a limited period of time (sounds familiar )

Q-6