Rant: 30-year Mac fanatic finally buys Windows

[convergent]

Posts like the above are just so out of touch with the reality of a modern W10 experience that I wonder about some users ability to actually use a computer. I still have my iMac but now use my self-build Windows machine full time. I can honestly say it's every bit as good both as computer hardware and an OS as my iMac ever was.

One of the other posters was right on the money when he wrote that Apple is now a phone company. I don't really know why MacRumors hasn't rebranded itself as iPhoneRumors as that now appears to be it's core content.

I agree. And Windows will continue to get better and better, because it is a priority for Microsoft. MacOS is not a priority for Apple. Follow the money in both cases. Apple is a smartphone company now. Every other Apple product is an accessory for the iPhone. Look at the updates to MacOS in the last several years. They've largely been things that were part of the ecosystem to support the iPhone experience. This is why I've moved to Windows and really headed out of the Apple ecosystem eventually.

 

[pika2000]

Posts like the above are just so out of touch with the reality of a modern W10 experience that I wonder about some users ability to actually use a computer. I still have my iMac but now use my self-build Windows machine full time. I can honestly say it's every bit as good both as computer hardware and an OS as my iMac ever was.

One of the other posters was right on the money when he wrote that Apple is now a phone company. I don't really know why MacRumors hasn't rebranded itself as iPhoneRumors as that now appears to be it's core content.

I have and use the Surface Pro 4 full time, and has installed Windows on my Mac. I also have several Windows machines for specific purposes. I stand with what I said. Just because you have different opinion doesn't mean others are out of touch. And if you don't like people in a Mac forum criticizing Windows, why are you even here?

 

[CooperBox]

.....One of the other posters was right on the money when he wrote that Apple is now a phone company. I don't really know why MacRumors hasn't rebranded itself as iPhoneRumors as that now appears to be it's core content.

As regards to the MacRumors site, a great many PPC users would disagree. Have you looked in on that very dynamic & active forum lately?
[doublepost=1503232810][/doublepost]I recently 'discovered' IBM Thinkpads, and now tend to compare them with my collection of vintage and contemporary Macs. I'd dropped MS in 2002 when I purchased my first PowerBook with OS X, but now really appreciate using Win 7 (on a pre Lenovo ThinkPad) compared with Sierra on a near new RMBP. Imho it's so easy to be caught up in all the media hype surrounding Apple, but (like Marmite) you won't know if you enjoy Win 7 (or highly tweaked 10) until you try it.

 

[TPadden]

Posts like the above are just so out of touch with the reality of a modern W10 experience that I wonder about some users ability to actually use a computer. I still have my iMac but now use my self-build Windows machine full time. I can honestly say it's every bit as good both as computer hardware and an OS as my iMac ever was.....

I have 2 primary residences and got tired of keeping everything sync'ed simply. Been running W10 happily on everything other than our iPads. My wife's and my MBA's and multiple Mini's and desktops have been booted into W10 for a little over a year without a problem. Trackpads work fine on everything, but with touchscreen usage on every other device, the only problem we really have is nothing happening when we poke the Mini's and MBA's screens .

 

[Nick Milner]

A month ago I switch from owning a long line of Surfaces to my very first Mac (MacBook Pro 2017 15") and I'm loving the decision I made. I've been using DOS and then Windows ever since I stopped using MicroVAXes. Sometimes you just need a change.

 

[navaira]

After dealing with Windows 10 on a customer's computer I would rather bite my head off and eat it than switch. However, I keep my Hackintosh on El Capitan, Macbook, Macbook Pro and iMac are all on Sierra. El Cap was supposed to bring stability improvements and it totally did at .5 version. It's very unlikely that I will update to High Sierra before .5 revision, and this is very disappointing, I used to download new macOS (OS X then, still) the moment it was released and never had problems until El Capitan improved stability /s

The new file system sounds very cool, but I don't trust it enough to use it for my computers until guinea pigs (i.e. this forum ) assure me many, many times that they don't lose anything. Update to Sierra with its default of moving files to iCloud had me watch disappearing files from my HDD. Which had lots of space free. You don't get to disable this option at install and it is enabled by default. macOS is still much better than Windows 10, so I am sticking with it despite having an Android phone and tablet. The syncing is PITA but not as difficult as it used to be. Possibly in a few years I will reconsider... especially if Apple withdraw from producing computers altogether. But not yet.

 

[Lankyman]

I have and use the Surface Pro 4 full time, and has installed Windows on my Mac. I also have several Windows machines for specific purposes. I stand with what I said. Just because you have different opinion doesn't mean others are out of touch. And if you don't like people in a Mac forum criticizing Windows, why are you even here?

I am all for criticism where it's due. In this case in my opinion the criticism simply isn't valid.
[doublepost=1503479317][/doublepost]

As regards to the MacRumors site, a great many PPC users would disagree. Have you looked in on that very dynamic & active forum lately?

I was really referring to the MacRumors 'front page' stories which are heavily iPhone orientated.

 

[pika2000]

I am all for criticism where it's due. In this case in my opinion the criticism simply isn't valid.

So basically things you don't like to hear/read are invalid.
Got it.

 

[mmomega]

I am for what makes more sense in a particular case.
For my laptop it is a Mac, my desktop is primarily Mac, with Windows for the 3 games I may play twice a month, any of my servers at the moment are Windows Server 2016.

I can't choose one particular OS for everything because neither one of them do everything I want.

And I've tried multiple versions of Linux, not going to happen outside of my Raspberry Pi's.

 

[Lankyman]

So basically things you don't like to hear/read are invalid.
Got it.

Perhaps 'English' isn't your first language? That isn't what I said, go back and read it again.

 

[kazmac]

I will be cross platform as of tomorrow, had to for the job hunt. While I dislike Dell immensely and had issues with the former jobs' network, had to take the leap and get a PC (not a dell). I've realized I haven't used my Apple purchases this year to the fullest (I did not need a + phone or an iPP at all.) With the recent price hikes and continued bs coming from on high, I need a change. And as soon I can sell the iPad Pro for cash I will do so. It was fun drawing, but that's not my profession or passion.

I'll keep an eye on Android, even though I disliked needing apps for what iOS does automatically and it just felt counterintuitive.

I say whatever works best for the individual is fine by me. I know I will be in a position to chose whatever platform I like freely in the near future, but now I have a better idea of my needs vs. wants.

 

[Count Blah]

Sorry you felt compelled to buy a dell. Lots of other windows options out there.

 

[iMi]

I will be cross platform as of tomorrow, had to for the job hunt. While I dislike Dell immensely and had issues with the former jobs' network, had to take the leap. I've realized I haven't used my Apple purchases this year to the fullest (I did not need a + phone or an iPP at all.) With the recent price hikes and continued bs coming from on high, I need a change. And as soon I can sell the iPad Pro for cash I will do so. It was fun drawing, but that's not my profession or passion.

I'll keep an eye on Android, even though I disliked needing apps for what iOS does automatically and it just felt counterintuitive.

I say whatever works best for the individual is fine by me. I know I will be in a position to chose whatever platform I like freely in the near future, but now I have a better idea of my needs vs. wants.

The one nice thing about becoming OS agnostic is that now you have a lot of choices.

Windows 10 is solid and easy to use. We really are approaching OS parity. I personally missed several key features from macOS and the integration (something I complained about a lot until it was gone). When Apple finally refreshed the iMac, I jumped back. Still love the surface and use it often, especially for drawing. Someday I will replace it with an iPad Pro, but until then I’ll stick with it. As you said, whatever works for the individual. Enjoy!

 

[kazmac]

Sorry you felt compelled to buy a dell. Lots of other windows options out there.

Oops. I did not buy a Dell this time (they were so awful as far as customer service and incompetent to boot.) I can see where you became confused in my post. I bought a Huawei Matebook X on the recommendations here and elsewhere.

@iMi thank you for the good words. I'll keep on using this iMac, as being cross platform will hopefully open up more jobs to me. I enjoyed the 2nd gen iPad Pro for drawing with Procreate, but that enjoyment quickly wore off (such is with me and iPads. Since I am not a professional artist and suddenly have to deal with finding a job...that killed my desire to keep it. So it is now up on Swappa. Mods, I hope that is okay to say...) I know what to shut off in Windows 10 as far as privacy and will probably load up on MacAfee.


Enjoy your iMac, and eventually your iPad Pro. I love how easy Apple products are to use and their security, but necessity is finally pushing me toward cross platform at home.

 

[villicodelirant]

And I've tried multiple versions of Linux, not going to happen outside of my Raspberry Pi's.

I'm sorry, which ones and, more importantly, why?
I find stock Debian (that is, with Gnome 3) to be the best operating system that is not a Mac, with which it shares many traits of its philosophy.

I'm a bit surprised that a Mac user would rather use Windows 10, which is the polar opposite.

 

[ctrlzone]

for me apple is just better than ever,
wish you a nice experience with your windows machine

 

[kazmac]

I wish folks all the best with their Macs too. I absolutely love the platform and when they work, they work beautifully. After a few months of respite, I am having issues with my iMac again so I think this whole thing is quite timely.

I was thrown into a situation that necessitates my getting a Windows computer. After two dud Windows laptops this week, I was thinking of installing Win10 on this iMac, but as I read articles online and never got the software and flash drive yesterday, I ordered PC laptop #3: Acer's new base Swift 3 with the 8th gen chip. Plus the iMac is protesting loudly over the past few days (lots of hang ups with RAM, safari etc.)

So I am kicking my fear and annoyance aside for take 3. i am not sure where being cross platform will take me, beyond a new job (which is my main reason), but who knows? If I like Windows 10 and the laptop experience; suddenly I am excited though. I always like learning new tech and software so this can only be a good thing for me.

Everyone's needs are different. I need tech that will work with me. I am open to trying new things. As for Apple, we'll see what happens, but I know I will not give into the latest and greatest again. If this insane week has reenforced anything, it's buy what you know you need and works best for you and the tasks at hand, not what you think you want.

 

[CrashX]

I'd really like to give this a shot and shake my fear/hatred of Winbloze.

What's been preventing me is my very real fear of viruses and malware.

The value proposition for Macs remains that I'm extremely comfortable with it, and all of my software is free - especially the abhorrent new "cloud" fee structure for Adobe - and safe because I'm also steeped in over 30 years of sweating it out with Apple. I'm highly reliant on the pass "msjstw" or some variant of it for all of my software needs.

So, being an "underground" guy and not being familiar with the "enemy" underground -

I'm definitely fed up beyond belief with Apple. Our Elvis has left the building, and it's beyond time to leave the cult.

But I'm not certain Windows is the answer? If I dedicate a ton of time to learning the Microsoft way, what to do when Microsoft stops being 10 and goes Ballmer again?

So is Linux actually the best option? But if Windows is a leap, Linux is... l33t guru terminal madness?

I just wish to use my computer, get my work done, and not worry about getting jacked. Apple formerly provided that comfort. Pricey maybe, but top of the line specs and incredibly comfortable and safe.

But, accepting that the Apple I know no longer exists and isn't ever coming back -

What path to follow?

Jobs is dead. Who's stepping up now? No brilliant jackasses in the vast Linux world - seems highly improbable?

Seriously - if we're leaving Apple behind, then WHY ON EARTH would we trust Microsoft?

Just pure evil everywhere, wealthier and infinitely more controlling and powerful than ever before.

We've entered a very scary wilderness - so who is stepping up to lead us out? Seriously, there has to be someone?

 

[villicodelirant]

But I'm not certain Windows is the answer? If I dedicate a ton of time to learning the Microsoft way, what to do when Microsoft stops being 10 and goes Ballmer again?

And what if Apple ships another hockey puck mouse?
Well, you replace it.
When it happens.
Which may be in 5, 10 years or never.
You might be dead before you get to the end of this sen


...I got you there for a second, heh?

Just pure evil everywhere, wealthier and infinitely more controlling and powerful than ever before.

(Because Apple is the Red Cross, ainnit)

What's been preventing me is my very real fear of viruses and malware.

Fear is good. Fear is your friend.
It prevents you from opening and executing email attachments called VIAGRA.EXE.

The idea that NT is inherently less secure than the Mac is silly.
Some defaults are a bit dumb, but you can compensate by using your head (and changing those settings when you have a minute).

So is Linux actually the best option? But if Windows is a leap, Linux is... l33t guru terminal madness?

Linux isn't even that.
Linux is a kernel, a speck of software that drives the hardware.

People build complete operating systems and interfaces on top of that.
Which may or may not be insane.
You know Android? It's Linux-based. Your router? Probably so.

I find that that Gnome-based operating systems such as Debian or the upcoming Ubuntu 17.10 are reasonably usable.
You click on stuff to make stuff happen, you connect your cloud accounts, install software from an App store of sorts and go about your business.

It's not a Mac, though, in at least three ways:

1. Forget about the sheer polish of a Mac.
   There's some polish. After all, Andy Hertzfeld worked on Gnome.
   But it's not a Mac.
   
   
2. There's a lot of software which is in the UNIX tradition. Which might or might not mean "terminal madness", and you might or might not run into it.
   In fact, that's a core market for Linux workstations, they took over the void left by SGI and Sun with their proprietary Unices.
   The fact that most UNIX folks are very set in their way of working should ring a warning bell (the above companies went from Fortune 500 to bankrupt, and we simply replaced our boxes and kept working in the same way as before).
   But again, you might never run into it, depending on what you do.
   
   
3. Some PC hardware is well supported. Some is not.
   Windows has an edge in this because of market share, if you are not shipping Windows drivers you might as well exit the hardware business.

The good parts:

1. I feel the Gnome is by far more Mac-cy than Windows 8+ and less "clunky".
   
2. Generally, the Linux folks are very conservative, so you can (and a sizable number of people do) use a 15-year-old editor or desktop environment because it's what they're used to - which addresses your fear.

What do you do then?
Fire up VirtualBox, install Windows 10 on one virtual machine and Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 on the other.
Make sure to install all of the GNOME applications on the GNOME box through the GNOME package manager

See how you like each and decide if you want to stay Mac or not.
After all, you might... you know, be a Mac guy.

Everyone's needs are different. I need tech that will work with me. I am open to trying new things. As for Apple, we'll see what happens, but I know I will not give into the latest and greatest again. If this insane week has reenforced anything, it's buy what you know you need and works best for you and the tasks at hand, not what you think you want.

This.

 

[CrashX]

What do you do then?
Fire up VirtualBox, install Windows 10 on one virtual machine and Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 on the other.
Make sure to install all of the GNOME applications on the GNOME box through the GNOME package manager

See how you like each and decide if you want to stay Mac or not.
After all, you might... you know, be a Mac guy.

Thanks for all your insight. I keep a VMWare copy of Win7 and Win10 - even a WinXP - for testing.

But I got into a creative zone today with Photoshop - as well as I know that tool, it was taking me too many mouse-clicks to get my little project just the way I wanted. And, when it gets to actually creating stuff, for me - it's basically whatever doesn't get in the way of the process.

Before that, just hating on Apple, I installed Elementary OS and Ubuntu 17.04. I did the whole Macbuntu thing to Ubuntu, even Photoshop'd GIMP.

The Macbuntu sucked - which makes sense, because I have no clue how it works, so making it look like Mac didn't change how it actually works, so screwing with it like that just made it more difficult.

Elementary was pretty cool, though. It actually does function natively quite a bit like OS X. Out of all the fugly Linux, I'd hit that.

It's too bad Adobe doesn't port their crap to Linux. I read something about Wine? Is there a Mace? Being a complete idiot, I thought Mac was based on Unix, so wouldn't Mace be easier than Wine?

Anyway - I have a late 2013 rMBP with a bunch of cores and a crap ton of memory. The virtual machines are allotted only 1 core and 1 GB of memory. All of the Win boxes run like they're native on whatever tiny portion they're getting of my laptop - and probably because VMWare doesn't give a crap about Linux, all of the Linux boxes I've ever installed run like crap - scrolling is stuttered and slow, etc.

So - actual question - does VirtualBox run the Linux OS better? Because I'd like to keep everything in a VM for now. Or do I need to create a "partition" - and how is that accomplished anyway? I like that the VM machines just shrink or whatnot - but a partition (I think? Not well or much.) is a permanent thing?

But here's the thing - in order to get comfortable with an alternate to MacOS, I'd have to just relegate myself to pretending I'm actually stuck with it. And either teach myself how to use Gimp, or run Wine - I dunno? Damn I wish there was a Mace - that would totally free me from Apple forever.

'Cuz I guess I'm just an Adobe guy? Macs have an aesthetically pleasing UI, but Elementary is pretty damn nice. If I could get rid of the stutter-scrolling, I suppose I could either learn Gimp or wine Photoshop.

But still - no chance I'd go over to Windows. That just makes no damn sense. Win10 might be the most awesomest ever - but there will be a new version, MS will force everyone over, just like Apple is pushing now with Stoned Sierra - so that's def just an out of the pan into the fire situation.

Given what an absolute monster my current rMBP is, though - I'm hoping I can just keep her running for at least another decade, if not longer. Other than it dying, I can't see any reason to ever upgrade for whatever idiocy Apple comes up with - super special magical touch bar with facial scan sweet lovingness animojicon expialidocious. I just don't give a f--- anymore.

UPDATE: Ah - hey villicodelirant, if you have a few hours tonight or whenever - apparently this guy just needs some crypto-stuff and we'll all be up and running with Mace and GTG:

https://www.darlinghq.org

I don't really give a rat's a-- about whether it's legal or not - hopefully someone can just crack that warez-style, and we can all just ditch Apple for good? It's not like Adobe ever adds anything new that's useful anyway, any more than Apple or Microsoft. They just want everyone up in their forever-subscribed-customer idiot clouds.

Elementary OS with Darling working - or with the crypto whatever jacked from Apple to make it work - would be the bomb, yeah?

 

[villicodelirant]

Before that, just hating on Apple, I installed Elementary OS and Ubuntu 17.04. I did the whole Macbuntu thing to Ubuntu, even Photoshop'd GIMP.

I would like to discourage you from dealing with Elementary OS and plain Ubuntu (plain Ubuntu, not Ubuntu GNOME), because

1. Plain (Unity-based) Ubuntu is on its way out and will be discontinued in the next release
2. In my opinion it's a disgusting, ugly, mess

I can really only recommend Gnome.
Personal opinion, but...

It's too bad Adobe doesn't port their crap to Linux. I read something about Wine? Is there a Mace? Being a complete idiot, I thought Mac was based on Unix, so wouldn't Mace be easier than Wine?

Well, the Mac OS APIs are actually based on NextStep. There is an OpenStep and you can recompile some Mac applications under it, provided you have the source.

So yes, a runtime compatibility layer is probably doable-ish in theory, in practice there probably isn't a demand -- if nothing else because Wine already emulates the windows versions.

You might have better luck with running the Windows version (see compatibility chart here), but if you work with Photoshop I would like to discourage it.

Really. If you work with Adobe, just use a Mac.
Or buy a Thinkpad P50 workstation or a HP Z-Book, if you really hate Apple.

So - actual question - does VirtualBox run the Linux OS better?

I don't know, honestly. Of course you have installed the Guest Additions (i.e. "drivers") right?
What I do know is that on my machine all virtual machines are a bit jerky UI-wise.

 

[Hater]

Or buy a Thinkpad P50 workstation or a HP Z-Book, if you really hate Apple.

Hey now, are you saying there are people who want a MacOS laptop that supports more than 16GB of RAM? That's crazy talk, you're crazy.

 

[throAU]

I get your frustration, and indeed share some of it.

However we are in a transitional period, where traditional desktops and laptops are on the way out.

The future is AR, and iOS is the platform apple is focused on for providing that.

Traditional computers are going to become a niche as far as new purchases go within 5-10 years in my opinion. i.e., the new hotness inside 5, and replacing laptops entirely within 10.

Stuff like the hololens (once it is refined a little and made smaller), whatever glasses apple come up with, etc will take over for a lot of stuff.

We’re not there yet, but once a device like the hololens is smaller and down to similar price to a laptop + screen, the traditional desktop/laptop PC is dead for anything outside of extremely small niche power user workloads.

edit:
Now maybe my above assumption is wrong, however both Microsoft and Apple are going to be pushing in that direction and if you go look at some of the hololens demos, what you can do with this sort of hardware is amazing. Yes, the current hololens is bulky, but lower power and more efficient processors will fix that in due course. it won’t be long.

Computing is going to leave the desk and become more integrated with the real world. You won’t have people doing dumb data entry at a desk any more, intelligent cameras, GPS, etc. will do it.

you won’t use a PC or tablet as a reference any more, it will be overlaid over the real world via heads up display, etc.

The short version: all desktop/laptop PCs are on borrowed time. Not just the Mac. AR is going to be one of those revolutionary turning points in computing once the hardware spec and cost get to where they need to be. And its very, very close.

This is why apple is so focused on this sort of thing, and the Mac is entirely secondary at this point. Whoever wins the race to build the first “good enough” AR platform and development tools stands to be the company who is the defacto standard in AR.

 

[villicodelirant]

The short version: all desktop/laptop PCs are on borrowed time. Not just the Mac. AR is going to be one of those revolutionary turning points in computing once the hardware spec and cost get to where they need to be. And its very, very close.

Sorry, what.

I seriously can't imagine how augmented reality technology (which is cool and all) might possibly mean that there won't be a computer - or at least a terminal - on the desk of every accountant, designer, engineer, scientist, mathematician, programmer.

It is self-evident that the personal computer will become - is becoming, maybe has become - less and less of the consumer good, status symbol and profit driver that it was in the 1998-2008 period, replaced by iPhones first and wearable then.

But this hasn't changed by an inch how people work with computers.
I mean that quite literally, since the basic workflow in AutoCAD or MATLAB is more or less the same as it was 15 years ago, not to mention the Emacs/GNU Make/gcc stack which is still frozen in 1977 for better or worse.

I seriouisly don't think that there is a demand for Augmented Reality Excel or Augmented Reality MATLAB, but maybe history will prove me wrong, who knows.

Hey now, are you saying there are people who want a MacOS laptop that supports more than 16GB of RAM? That's crazy talk, you're crazy.

Can't make 8GB suffice anymore, my ass.

 

[CrashX]

once a device like the hololens is smaller and down to similar price to a laptop + screen, the traditional desktop/laptop PC is dead

Sorry, what.
I seriouisly don't think that there is a demand for Augmented Reality Excel or Augmented Reality MATLAB, but maybe history will prove me wrong, who knows.

Yeah, you keep dreaming, my friend - of a world WITHOUT augmented reality:

I think I'll take the world where I drive a Ferrari and cheat at pool and get the sub-hottie and Obama is my forever-dent.

I totally needed a laugh this morning - so thanks, ya Aussie bastage - that was just... wow.

Also, because all of that's possible without AR - well, other than NOT slamming your Ferrari into a van - THAT happens all too often without AR, so thank God it'll be here soon 'nuff...

God, I LOVE that video. And that my new Aussie bestie has the latest iPencil and the watch - so he ain't playin' - hopefully we can hang soon?

About to give Gnome a shot - but THANK YOU, throAU - this morning would have totally sucked for me without that AR video. Now it's like... infinite?

Until this download finally completes and I'll be futzing around with a gnome - ick... computers sux0rz.

Ah, to be a Millennial with a built-in augmented reality...

You don't happen to be a Gemini, do you? We GOTTA hit up Sydney!