Rant: 30-year Mac fanatic finally buys Windows

[Altis]

Exactly, and Windows still sucks.

I don't know that Windows is any worse than MacOS these days.

There are a lot of small things in MacOS that can be irritating, but I can't figure out why they're never addressed. I mean... Finder only just got folders at top. They still don't have a good window-snapping system (odd-sized windows just floating around is silly). When I open a drop-down menu and accidentally click on a divider line and it closes the menu -- like come on, obviously that wasn't what I wanted to do.

Windows is now more into their privacy invasion stuff, which I can't stand, and their forced updates I dislike even more (although not an issue with the higher-tier versions).

I just don't think that one is better than the other at this point. Even Linux has caught up quite a bit if you stick to a well-maintained distro. XFCE is a nice, very lightweight desktop environment with all the efficiency you need.

At the end of the day, an operating system is just a tool that should mostly get out of your way and let you get stuff done in the applications you use.

 

[CaseyGV]

Exactly, and Windows still sucks.

After my experience with Sierra not allowing me to correct an incompatible video resolution after I had my 2011 Mac mini hooked up to an HDTV, no matter what combination of keys I pushed to start the computer, I'm going to have to say macOS also sucks. When even safe mode won't display at a resolution compatible with the TV, and with no way to fix it without blowing away the OS, that's a problem. And I tried all the Mac-stuff I could. Zapped the PRAM, Reset the SMC, hooked up the Mac mini to another monitor and tried to fix the resolution there (turns out the OS remembers resolutions for each different display device you hooked it up to, and you can only change the resolution for the monitor you are currently connected to), deleted preferences, etc etc. Even worse, I could boot the Mac into Windows 10 and it worked fine with the same TV, and when booting Sierra, everything was fine until the Finder took control. Very poor design - something i would not expect of Apple.

And now, I no longer have any Macs in my house...

 

[Chancha]

On second thought, if you're listening Apple, just open-source Snow Leopard now and put all the source code out for anyone to use/update. Set it up through homebrew or macport and go back to your thinness fixation (cue image of anorexic teenage-looking fashion model).

I seriously think that if Snow Leopard is updated with modern drivers for current hardware components, it would be the world's best OS ever. The delicate balance of stability, efficiency, and coherence of that system is still unmatched. I try to install it in as many macs as I can, I always feel like being more productive on a MBP2011 with 10.6.8 than on a MBP2015 with Sierra. I wish I could install it on a 2012 Mini.

 

[Altis]

I seriously think that if Snow Leopard is updated with modern drivers for current hardware components, it would be the world's best OS ever. The delicate balance of stability, efficiency, and coherence of that system is still unmatched. I try to install it in as many macs as I can, I always feel like being more productive on a MBP2011 with 10.6.8 than on a MBP2015 with Sierra. I wish I could install it on a 2012 Mini.

Absolutely. Far too much has been sacrificed (namely performance and stability).

 

[jasnw]

Absolutely. Far too much has been sacrificed (namely performance and stability).

I wonder if it's possible to file an Apple bug report on every OS X/macOS release since Snow Leopard being broken. I hear that's the only way to get Apple's attention.

 

[Appleaker]

Tim Cook just doesn't have the passion to make the best products. He cares about the success of the company, and I think he'll see that the product is a big part of that soon.

It's why he keeps older, profitable devices around for much longer than Apple did in the past. As long as it still sells and makes a profit, he doesn't see a desperate need to upgrade it. Whereas, if he had passion for the products he would want to update it annually or more.

2017 will be the year that Apple sorts out the Mac. I'm sure that is said every year but it has been building up for a long time and this time I think it's true.

 

[Altis]

I wonder if it's possible to file an Apple bug report on every OS X/macOS release since Snow Leopard being broken. I hear that's the only way to get Apple's attention.

I'm honestly not sure it'll make the slightest difference.

Apple doesn't seem to care one bit about performance these days, and non-widespread bugs. This is true of macOS and iOS. Look how dismal the performance of iOS has been since 7.0 came out, with all the input-blocking.

They also don't seem to care much for any of the "pro" market.

It would appear that their sole focus is on the mainstream buyer -- the tech-clueless masses with low standards. I can't blame Apple for this since it's the easiest and safest market to be in, and they bring in lots of money. They're pushing for services and disposable iOS devices that bring in more regular cash, at the expense of turning your device into a storefront.

Having said that, I've noticed the past 2 years that many non-tech-savvy people have been complaining about both iOS and Mac, so perhaps it could change. I also don't see nearly as many MacBooks on campus as I used to.

As for myself, I can't really bare the bugs, poor performance, and the f-u attitude of permanent updates. It just isn't worth it -- Windows has caught up in most regards and the performance is much better. Even Linux is a pretty good choice these days.

 

[jpietrzak8]

It would appear that their sole focus is on the mainstream buyer -- the tech-clueless masses with low standards. I can't blame Apple for this since it's the easiest and safest market to be in, and they bring in lots of money.

I'd like to propose a slight amendment to this comment. Right from the very beginning, Steve Jobs was interested in the tech-clueless masses; but not because it was the easiest and safest market. In fact, I think he was interested because it was the trickiest and most dangerous market. Hear me out!

When Apple started out, the "personal computer" phenomenon was just starting to pick up steam; folks who knew their way around technology were snapping up these devices and having a great time with them. Folks who didn't know their way around technology were being left out. Steve wanted to find a way to harness all this tech, and present it to the user in a manner that did not require enormous amounts of technical understanding.

But, what this required was an enormous amount of work on Apple's part to help the user access the technology. The key was not to dumb-down the features of the computer, but rather to produce a friendly and forgiving user interface. In short, a machine that you could buy that does all the same things the one your neighbor owns, but doesn't require you to know as much as your neighbor does about low-level computing topics.

Apple spent enormous amounts of time, effort, and money on producing a UI and a machine that is easy to use. But, the whole point of the exercise, the thing that Jobs always saw clearly, was to bring the hottest tech to the masses. The hottest tech was already out there, and the masses were already out there; Jobs just needed to connect the two, and voila, profits!

This is what, I think, Apple has forgotten. Current Apple leadership seems to think it is Apple itself which creates new markets, which comes up with devices that people crave. But when Apple was really rocking, it was always taking tech created by others and reworking it to let non-techies use it.

People don't buy Apple products just because they are a millimeter thinner or have a glitzy touch bar; they buy Apple products because Apple makes using tech easy.

 

[pika2000]

I'd like to propose a slight amendment to this comment. Right from the very beginning, Steve Jobs was interested in the tech-clueless masses; but not because it was the easiest and safest market. In fact, I think he was interested because it was the trickiest and most dangerous market. Hear me out!

When Apple started out, the "personal computer" phenomenon was just starting to pick up steam; folks who knew their way around technology were snapping up these devices and having a great time with them. Folks who didn't know their way around technology were being left out. Steve wanted to find a way to harness all this tech, and present it to the user in a manner that did not require enormous amounts of technical understanding.

But, what this required was an enormous amount of work on Apple's part to help the user access the technology. The key was not to dumb-down the features of the computer, but rather to produce a friendly and forgiving user interface. In short, a machine that you could buy that does all the same things the one your neighbor owns, but doesn't require you to know as much as your neighbor does about low-level computing topics.

Apple spent enormous amounts of time, effort, and money on producing a UI and a machine that is easy to use. But, the whole point of the exercise, the thing that Jobs always saw clearly, was to bring the hottest tech to the masses. The hottest tech was already out there, and the masses were already out there; Jobs just needed to connect the two, and voila, profits!

This is what, I think, Apple has forgotten. Current Apple leadership seems to think it is Apple itself which creates new markets, which comes up with devices that people crave. But when Apple was really rocking, it was always taking tech created by others and reworking it to let non-techies use it.

People don't buy Apple products just because they are a millimeter thinner or have a glitzy touch bar; they buy Apple products because Apple makes using tech easy.

Excellent point, and I agree that that was part of what Jobs had in mind.
On the other hand, I do still think Apple is in that mindset. I'm not going to deny that there are some issues that Apple is having today, but the bigger mindset has not completely gone yet despite what people are saying. There are still new users to the Apple ecosystem, and they are having a great time enjoying tech despite their lack of know how.

 

[Chicane-UK]

It kills me because despite working with Windows professionally, I still prefer macOS for a daily driver desktop OS. But the hardware situation with the Mac has made buying one completely untenable.

I really don't know what's going on in Cupertino. And I don't care that Apple are making more money thanks to revenues from the iPhone / app store situation. As a fan of the Apple Desktop, I think they desperately need a change of leadership.

 

[pika2000]

It kills me because despite working with Windows professionally, I still prefer macOS for a daily driver desktop OS. But the hardware situation with the Mac has made buying one completely untenable.

I really don't know what's going on in Cupertino. And I don't care that Apple are making more money thanks to revenues from the iPhone / app store situation. As a fan of the Apple Desktop, I think they desperately need a change of leadership.

Wait, you want Apple to have a change of leadership just because you want a newer desktop, and you don't care about the technology and business trend.
Good thing Tim Cook is running Apple then.

 

[Partron22]

Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

After 33 years, I'm not seeing any benefit to being one of the last on the block to own a Mac.
Excite me, replacement for Steve, and do it SOON!

 

[Count Blah]

Wait, you want Apple to have a change of leadership just because you want a newer desktop, and you don't care about the technology and business trend.
Good thing Tim Cook is running Apple then.

With the most money in the bank, and enough employees to fill multiple stadiums, it's obviously not feasible to produce compelling Macs.

Gotcha.

 

[jpietrzak8]

With the most money in the back, and enough employees to fill multiple stadiums, it's obviously not feasible to produce compelling Macs.

You know, I kind of wonder if there's a law of diminishing returns going on here. It takes a certain amount of investment to design and manufacture a particular device. But, given the size of Apple today? It is no longer just that they can take full advantage of a new market-creating device; they actually need the profits from such a device in order to continue in business.

I keep seeing people on this forum repeating the quote that "profits in the desktop computer market are low." The flip side of this is that Apple, in its current form, cannot survive on the profits available from the desktop computer market. It may be that Macs are being kicked to the curb not because Apple no longer wants to produce them, but rather because the entire concept of the Mac itself is now unsustainable...

 

[DevNull0]

Honestly these complaints can be applied to 1996 as much as 2016. Macs have never been a good buy in my opinion. If you've owned a Mac you've always overpaid for the same hardware found in a windows machine. If you want to tell it like it is, Apple has only excelled at one thing over Windows - user experience. It was true in the 80's and still true today.

OP's rant is completely valid but talks about specs and price. I personally don't think Apple has ever won the spec or price battle.

I've been using Macs since the late 90's. I missed 1996, but I remember the Apple tax was always around 30-50% on comparable hardware. When I bought my 2011 MBP, Sandy Bridge was so new, Apple was ahead of the curve compared compared to other manufacturers, and the spec/price was better than I could get from any other company. No to mention that nobody could touch the unibody in build quality and sleekness back then.

Today everyone makes machines as sleek as Apple, Everyone makes machines as well built or better than Apple. And Apple has jacked up their prices like crazy while others have cut theirs.

My 2011 13" was $1300 with a brand new CPU and upgradable everything. And nobody else could come close. In 2017, the most comparable I can get is $1800 with a 2015 CPU, everything locked down, and a piece of crap of a keyboard. Everyone else sells a superior machine for a much lower price.

And the apple user experience has been going way downhill for people who want a computer as they turn the mac into a glorified iPhone accessory.
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It may be that Macs are being kicked to the curb not because Apple no longer wants to produce them, but rather because the entire concept of the Mac itself is now unsustainable...

How sustainable is Apple with no Macs to develop apps on? How meaningful is Apple's Ecosystem with no computers to anchor it?
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Tim Cook just doesn't have the passion to make the best products. He cares about the success of the company, and I think he'll see that the product is a big part of that soon.hink it's true.

I don't believe he cares about the company. He is cashing in Apple's legacy for a quick pile of cash. He will destroy what makes Apple great and then retire with hundreds of millions in bonuses while saying he's the greatest CEO ever because of all the money he made. When Apple comes crashing down right after the flees, he'll blame the poor sap who comes after him.

 

[jpietrzak8]

How sustainable is Apple with no Macs to develop apps on? How meaningful is Apple's Ecosystem with no computers to anchor it?

Exactly. It may be that Apple, as a company, has grown too large to continue to be sustained by its own business model. That it now requires a level of profits that it cannot possibly generate.

 

[Cape Dave]

Exactly. It may be that Apple, as a company, has grown too large to continue to be sustained by its own business model. That it now requires a level of profits that it cannot possibly generate.

This is a very intriguing business study. And I suspect more of a concern than one might admit. One would think that they could stop everything and all retire on just the freaking interest of their billions in the banks. Yes, I did not go to business school Seems to me they have jumped the shark with the new office building. Kind of similar to a marriage breaking up the day the "Dream House" is completed.

 

[Chicane-UK]

Wait, you want Apple to have a change of leadership just because you want a newer desktop, and you don't care about the technology and business trend.
Good thing Tim Cook is running Apple then.

I'm talking purely from a selfish point of view, and from my own interests. I'd love to see better desktops, which is why I'd like to see a change in leadership / direction. I accept that's probably not going to happen however! Nor am I saying it would make good sense from a business point of view necessary (except trying to win back disillusioned long term customers).

 

[navaira]

I keep seeing people on this forum repeating the quote that "profits in the desktop computer market are low." The flip side of this is that Apple, in its current form, cannot survive on the profits available from the desktop computer market.

This is not either/or situation though. Of course Apple can't keep their $99999999999999999 yearly profits just from desktop Macs. But they do produce billions in revenue even when not updated. And I seem to recall that many people wiser than me said it's good to diversify your products rather than focus on one thing only, even if that thing is huuuuuuuge at the moment. *looking at MySpace for no reason*

 

[pika2000]

With the most money in the bank, and enough employees to fill multiple stadiums, it's obviously not feasible to produce compelling Macs.

Gotcha.

I guess you are one of the board members of Apple that you know Apple is doing completely nothing behind the scenes on Macs.

Gotcha.

 

[jpietrzak8]

I guess you are one of the board members of Apple that you know Apple is doing completely nothing behind the scenes on Macs.

They're certainly not doing anything in front of the scenes on Macs.

 

[Count Blah]

I guess you are one of the board members of Apple that you know Apple is doing completely nothing behind the scenes on Macs.

Gotcha.

Proof is in the pudding.

Mac Pro - not updated since nov/dec 2013 and was a horrible departure from a REAL Pro machine - what year is it?

Mac Mini - last downgraded(purposely gimped) in fall of 2014 - what year is it?

You are honestly defending this stagnation and anti-consumer moves?

 

[pika2000]

Proof is in the pudding.

Mac Pro - not updated since nov/dec 2013 and was a horrible departure from a REAL Pro machine - what year is it?

Mac Mini - last downgraded(purposely gimped) in fall of 2014 - what year is it?

You are honestly defending this stagnation and anti-consumer moves?

Stagnation? Apple now has a multitude of custom SoC on their belt. Anti consumer? If that's true, people won't be buying Apple products right? Proof is in the pudding. Apple is one of the most valuable global brand right now.

Just because a company doesn't make something that you want, doesn't mean it's stagnating/anti consumer. An agile company should be able to adapt to market changes. Eg. IBM selling their PC business to Lenovo, Sony dropping its VAIO division, Microsoft/Adobe switching to subscription model.

You not seeing any products don't mean a thing unless you are one of Apple's board members. Besides, if you want a new 2017 desktop just because it's newer than the one you have, buy a Windows PC. They refreshes theirs much more often. You want Apple to become like Acer/Asus. I'm glad Tim Cook is on the helm then.
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They're certainly not doing anything in front of the scenes on Macs.

Sure. So? If you want a new desktop every year, just buy a Dell or Acer.
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I'm talking purely from a selfish point of view, and from my own interests. I'd love to see better desktops, which is why I'd like to see a change in leadership / direction. I accept that's probably not going to happen however! Nor am I saying it would make good sense from a business point of view necessary (except trying to win back disillusioned long term customers).

Dude, you're still rocking a 2013 MacBook Air. You yourself have shown the stagnation of PC market. Why should Apple put more effort in that if the consumers that said they wanted it are not actually upgrading as often anyway? As a business, why should you make something that people only want to see but not buy?

 

[jasnw]

I think the point many of us are trying to make is that Apple appears to be making a big mistake in ignoring their desktop computer customers. From a purely dollars-in-the-bank-this quarter point of view, ignoring a small source of your overall market looks to be very smart. Investors love this sort of thing. However, my take, and I think the take of others on this thread, is that Apple is being penny wise and pound foolish in not continuing to innovate in the desktop area. The people who want and buy these desktops are also Apple’s primary app developers. Drive them off (as in your “just buy a Dell or Acer” attitude) might end up being a big mistake.

As for what’s really going on inside Apple, we have no idea. All we can do is see what they do and form our opinions as to whether Apple’s leadership has three brain cells among them based on that.

 

[pika2000]

Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

After 33 years, I'm not seeing any benefit to being one of the last on the block to own a Mac.
Excite me, replacement for Steve, and do it SOON!

You know what kind of computers that Lenovo and Dell ship in volume right? Majority of their shipments are for enterprise contracts and low end laptops. Look at Lenovo's and Dell's own balance sheets. If you are a business, do you want to be a Lenovo/Dell, or do you want to be Apple?

And go back to what Steve Jobs said about trucks and cars. Apple is simply continuing Jobs' vision.