Not at all ignorant I asked enough of them when I was earning my degree to audit the quality of my college education experiences, only a small percentage actually took courses periodically in classroom management strategies the rest just punched the clock for a check. Many of them were fantastic as experts in their fields and saw better money by teaching but horrible educators. There is no real system in place in higher education regulating professors as there is in the elementary and secondary systems requiring continued training--sure courses are offered but beyond individual schools at this level it is not standardized or required any extra education is essentially voluntary.
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RANT: Correct me if I am wrong but.....
- Thread starter canuhandlethis8
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Not at all ignorant I asked enough of them when I was earning my degree to audit the quality of my college education experiences, only a small percentage actually took courses periodically in classroom management strategies the rest just punched the clock for a check. Many of them were fantastic as experts in their fields and saw better money by teaching but horrible educators. There is no real system in place in higher education regulating professors as there is in the elementary and secondary systems requiring continued training--sure courses are offered but beyond individual schools at this level it is not standardized or required any extra education is essentially voluntary.
What do you know about "proper trained teaching"?
Yeah, they have time to do investigations.
The student asked other students about exam content. That's a violation of academic honesty at any institution. The OP claims his intent was innocuous, but nonetheless it is inappropriate to ask such things. If he wanted to know what was on the exam, he should have asked the professor - not his classmates.Again, the question should have been asked of the professor, not the classmates.
I have no idea what you're talking about here.
More likely the professor has had to deal with this many times before.
The great majority of professors who spend substantial time in the classroom have had pedagogical coursework. Your assertion is spurious.
Flat out BS. You have no idea what you're talking about.
At our institution (which is an R1 research institution), virtually all tenure and tenure-track faculty have pedagogical training. You're relaying your personal experiences as statistically meaningful, when in fact they're not.
As with any profession, there can be some deadwood. Fortunately, those usually don't get tenure or if they do they end up as administrators.
You're joking, right? If you want to make money in academia, you don't teach. You either do research (i.e., grants) or get into administration.
Seriously. I'm beginning to think you're just trolling. Every year faculty are reviewed on their teaching, principally by peers and by student evaluations. If trends occur that demonstrate inadequacies in the classroom then that professor (usually an assistant professor) is assigned a mentor from the tenured faculty. If he/she does not improve, then they won't get tenure. On average, about 40% of assistant professors don't get tenure. After 5 years, you're gone.
I'm not going to bother about my fields of experience here.
Yes, taking five minutes to send an e-mail reply to ask for some kind of clarification assuming an honest mistake was made is the patient approach.Yeah, they have time to do investigations.
Again this is assuming mistrust if the rest of the students likely they are aware of the nature of cheating then they would be as liable as this student should they provide the answers, but there is no strict rule stating that they cannot be referenced to as a study aide a student could just as easily ask students who have taken the same course in a previous term. Rather than automatically interpret his query as cheating it is best to assume he is making a genuine attempt to catch up--this goes back to the automatic distrust.
That's a matter of communicating with your pupils psychologically, expressing your disapproval while at the same time letting them know you'll do what you can.
and it is likely this professor didn't bother to learn from the previous experiences in order to adjust his teaching methods to help lessen the problem.
We can throw statistics at each other here all day but there is no set regulation or requirement saying they all have to nationally.
That's your opinion.
wow thanks guys!!
The funny thing is..even when i was out sick, I'd email him all my professors and give them status updates on how I was feeling. Every single teacher EXPECT this guy emailed me back. And it's funny that his first email to me is threatening me.
The funny thing is..even when i was out sick, I'd email him all my professors and give them status updates on how I was feeling. Every single teacher EXPECT this guy emailed me back. And it's funny that his first email to me is threatening me.
Thank you. It gets everything you want in it. A defense is the first sentence. Agreeing with the Professor next. Than apologizing and guranteeing not to do it again.
What was meant was quite clear. Those who don't want to believe it are finding all sorts of excuses trying to wiggle out what was clearly meant.
How you go from the first few words to the last is simply beyond me.
Asking what the test covered is in fact CLEARLY cheating as material given out by the teacher as possibly ON the exam is then being told that it isn't. If a teacher says Chapters 1-10 could be on an exam and a student tells another that only Chapters 4,5,6 were on the actual exam....that is cheating. Specific answers do not need to be given.
I mean, does that really need to be explained? Do we have that many cheaters on this forum that have perfected excuses out of being caught so clearly?
What experience do you have in this field?
You have none. Your post came off to me as someone who was caught in the past and still fuming that the teacher caught you.
Why? The student was clearly caught. There is no clarification needed. That isn't an opinion. That is a fact.
Huh? There are actually many schools that DO in fact have such a rule.
that's your institution alone so we are comparing apples and oranges.
not really the best place for dead wood I'll agree with you there.
depends on the field--Artists for example make better money in teaching even if they are horrible I ran through my share of talentless hacks more interested in the criticism of art than the application they said there was better money in it. I had one of the best instructors in psychology his teaching methods were top form he stated the reason he wasn't a psychiatrist making 100 bucks an hour was simple he hated hearing peoples problems. My science teachers were strange ones though i never quite figured them out I think they just liked playing with the lab equippment.
I don't put much stock in peer reviews when the entire system is riddled with flaws you said so yourself there is dead wood in the college system--suppose some of that dead wood are "peers"--tenure just means they cannot fire you no matter the level of ones incompetence some mediocre ones can sit long enough and pass below the radar sadly.
Agree with you. The original e-mail is quite revealing.
If the OP had wanted to find out what was on the examination, he could have easily e-mailed his professor.
Yeah he is threatening you because what you did could get you kicked out. At the school that I am out you would get suspended because soliciting cheating is not allowed. And that's what you did, whether or not it was your intent you asked a question that on paper clearly reads like it is cheating, you went about the wrong methods and a logical response from a peer would be something that is clearly cheating.
Your characterization of the professor seems that you are never going to accept what you did as wrong, but that's your loss. It's near unanimous that you were in the wrong, and the majority seem to think your professor's reaction was not off of what one would assume a reaction to be.
You don't read people very well do you? I don't blame you it's kind of difficult to get a read on somebody between two computer screens and keyboards.
the matter is not that clear every student has the right to due process even in the college system since most accept money from public funds. but regulation is not universal.
How many? this goes into statistics again we can play "I show you mine you show me yours' but statistics are the most damnable manipulatable psudo mathematics out there that true mathematicians have little regard for them (not me though I am no mathematician but I have questioned a few on the subject).
^^Agreed. I don't know if it's been brought up but as a fellow classmate, I would've been pissed getting that email. After studying hard and trying my best, the last thing I would do is tell another student how to skate by and have an easier experience on a test.
Ok, why would he e-mail his professor if it were not something as innocent as needing information for studying for a make up test? If he was cheating that would definitely make him dishonest, and secondly too stupid to be in college in the first place by asking the teacher for the cheat sheet. Paranoia breeds mistrust in this situation--of course the kid could be lying about the whole situation but I am investing nothing but my own opinion as the rest of you are but rather than being cynical concerning his story I offered my interpretation of events as presented presuming innocence first.
That's not innocent in my book. Getting information from other students as to what a test covers prior to taking the test is cheating. Clear. Simple. Especially when this info was not available to every other student.
In my classes I require that if someone misses a test they cannot talk to any student about any aspect of the test. Not even "was it difficult?". A question like, "what did it cover?" can tell them to study up on particular lectures and ignore others. How could that possibly be a fair test?
Asking for chapters covered doesn't seem to me as cheating it seems to me that the kid still has to read absorb and retain the information for later use the test if administered correctly proves if the data has been absorbed and/or the student can apply the knowledge meaningfully (last I checked it was pretty hard to cheat on an essay which most college exams consist of)--oh and if kids are allowed to use notes during a test by an instructor then is that cheating too? I gotta love the rigidness with which many assume there are absolute rights and wrongs with no gray areas, and no one commits errors that things are just the way they are--I just get a laugh out of the people who say "but the rules state" like we are all machines.
I have a few of my professors added, they usually comment on my status
Hell one time I had "blackboard just shut down in the middle of a test. fml." and the prof commented asking if it was for their course. lol. I must have extremely cool professors.
Then again I wouldn't ever do anything like mass mail to see what was on a test.
I don't see anything wrong with that as long as you were asking what the test covered, not what each question was on, not for ultra-specific material or answers. I would hope that any professor administering a test to someone who missed the original test would use a different version anyways. Asking what a test covered (ie what chapters or concepts) is vastly different than asking what exactly was on the test. I could very easily tell you that the test covered chapters 1-8 of the tax book or that it covered the concepts of Partnership Accounting and Investment Accounting and clearly neither one of us would be cheating.
At the very least your professor should have found out what you were actually seeking before jumping to such hasty unsupported conclusions.
Asking what a test covered is inappropriate? The wording of his email is so vague you couldn't possibly have an idea of what exactly he was asking for; he could just as easily be asking for the chapters the test covered as for more specific information. I'd also be very surprised if this were a generational difference.
I'm sure everyone here has never once asked a peer what chapters or concepts a test covered during their academic career.
I've found that most professors prefer not to be bothered with questions about "what you missed when you were absent" and encourage you to find out from your peers.
I've never heard of being sick in college as an excuse to not find out what is being covered in class so you can keep up. He was gone for a week, he most likely has a syllabus that roughly covers the class. If not he should have called the professor so he could do his studies while missing class.
We are talking college courses here also, that's usually 3 courses a week at most be missed. (Ive been to two colleges and they both had mwf tth schedules. I think the intent of the poster was to get a leg up on the test. Did the poster ever say whether he originally sent this message to the prof? I would have turned him in.
As an academically honest student, I just decidedly disagree with the sentiment in this thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong in how I'm perceiving this:
He didn't know what chapters were testable (misplaced/incomplete syllabus etc...). The professor told the class what chapters the test would cover prior to the test while the OP was absent from class. He asked for what material was testable.
I really feel like the following question needs to be answered before we can say he was in error.
TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER:
What was the original intent of your mass email?
Was it to:
A. find out what material was emphasized on the test from material that was able to be tested?
B. find out what chapters or time-periods were able to be tested at all?
Please answer this so we can all stop arguing with each other.
He didn't know what chapters were testable (misplaced/incomplete syllabus etc...). The professor told the class what chapters the test would cover prior to the test while the OP was absent from class. He asked for what material was testable.
I really feel like the following question needs to be answered before we can say he was in error.
TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER:
What was the original intent of your mass email?
Was it to:
A. find out what material was emphasized on the test from material that was able to be tested?
B. find out what chapters or time-periods were able to be tested at all?
Please answer this so we can all stop arguing with each other.
Unless I've missed something a lot of this is supposition. I've had numerous classes where we were simply told "you may be tested on any material covered in class or the required readings". The test then contains a very small subset of this. In this case finding out which parts were tested, even without the questions, would be gaining a significant and unfair advantage (cheating).
I have been doing law for years now. What in god's name are you talking about?
Due process is afforded to SOME students who have been caught and turned into a Disciplinary Board. No due process is needed to be given to the student in this situation WHEN HE IS GETTING A DAMN WARNING.
Even then, what the hell does accepting public funds have to do with anything? Be specific on this answer too as I have a sneaking idea you are going to try to make some assertion that has no basis to it other than what you think.
Every single law school that I have taught at as a guest teacher or attended. Numerous LLM schools that I have visited.
Do you want me to go on?
The fact that you think no rule exist about giving information from a past class tells me you just haven't the faintest clue what rules are actually in place at many institutions for higher learning.
That makes absolutely no difference whether "ultra-specific material" was given or not.
Cheating is Cheating and getting any sort of advantage as to what was and wasn't on the test....is an unfair advantage.
For those who have since graduated college; think back if you had gotten this email from another student.
a) If you don't know them, you'd be, WTF?? Heck, I might have even forwarded it to the professor myself.
b) If they were someone you knew from class and knew they were out sick but not really friends with. The response might be, "It covers chapter 1 to 10; with a focus on 3 and 8."
c) A friend. "It was supposed to be on chapters 1 to 10 but it was really on chapters 3 and 8. Make sure you understand topics A, B, and C really good because that was 80 to 90%. Oh yeah, don't forget to review Question #3 in Chapter 2 because he had one just like that on there."
d) A Frat Brother. "Dude it was so much like last years test! I have a copy of that I'll get it for you. Three questions from Chapter 3, four from Chapter 8, and one from Chapter #2 -- question #2 in the review is EXACT the same question. I wrote down a few of the other questions, see the attachment."
Throwing a general question out like "What does it cover" is like using the shotgun approach. There is a good chance you will hit something that will give you more information then you should have had. This wasn't one or two emails to friends, this was to EVERYONE in the class, someone was bound to give him more information then what they had going in.
My guess is that there is a website / blog for the class, there was two links, "professor email", "class email" and he clicked class email and then didn't bother to check to see if that included the professor or not.
It does sound like he was trying to get more information then he should have. I would call it cheating. The professor should either fail him for the test, or give him a test that would be damn near impossible to pass unless he REALLY knows the subject.
To those who want to do this, ask your friends face to face, don't send emails like this where you are putting it in writing that you are cheating. Never put things in writing. At least, at very minimum is to NOT use the universities email accounts -- yes, sys admins can and do scan emails!