psac
macrumors 6502a
The color palette looks totally different -- even the cabinet in the background looks like a lightwood in the first picture, and a cherry-wood in the second. Which is more accurate to the naked eye?
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The color palette looks totally different -- even the cabinet in the background looks like a lightwood in the first picture, and a cherry-wood in the second. Which is more accurate to the naked eye?
AlGardner
macrumors member
First. But it is slightly green in white balance.
It is just like both phones took the scene - without any corrections
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Fat_Guy
macrumors 65816
Everyone stay rational.
First Apple’s hardware is fine for almost all people. It’s the filtering and processing you can’t get out of that bugs me the most. This works for most newbies that don’t care and save jpg in 680 pixels wide files to share online. For everyone else this can be a bit of a nightmare if you just want the camera to shoot what it sees and that’s it!
So I just downloaded the Halide app and paid full price. I have a 12 Pro Max paid off and I tried the app when the 13 Pro Max came out and the macro mode didn’t save the photo at the time. It works now though, and I know it’s not the same but now I don’t feel like I’m missing out on much. Like most of you I balked at the price of the app but it’s the only thing that comes as close as you can to true raw without Apple meddling. I just cleared my head and hit the purchase button and it’s done - like pulling off a band-aide. I think you are better off with the expensive app instead of returning the phone. The reason it’s so expensive is because they know they have you over a barrel if your a photographer, and you just have to pay the piper.
Anyway I hate subscriptions so just consider the full price paid lost money and be done with it. That money is well spent if it keeps you from returning or worse, selling the phone! I should also tell you that a well known fashion photographer still uses an iPhone 11 Pro Max, I guess she didn’t consider the 12 or 13 an upgrade.
My biggest issue with the cameras is the lens flaring especially in video. Watch successful YouTubers who use iPhones and I always cringe when those green dots show up all the time. THAT should be addressed next year!
Rant over.
First Apple’s hardware is fine for almost all people. It’s the filtering and processing you can’t get out of that bugs me the most. This works for most newbies that don’t care and save jpg in 680 pixels wide files to share online. For everyone else this can be a bit of a nightmare if you just want the camera to shoot what it sees and that’s it!
So I just downloaded the Halide app and paid full price. I have a 12 Pro Max paid off and I tried the app when the 13 Pro Max came out and the macro mode didn’t save the photo at the time. It works now though, and I know it’s not the same but now I don’t feel like I’m missing out on much. Like most of you I balked at the price of the app but it’s the only thing that comes as close as you can to true raw without Apple meddling. I just cleared my head and hit the purchase button and it’s done - like pulling off a band-aide. I think you are better off with the expensive app instead of returning the phone. The reason it’s so expensive is because they know they have you over a barrel if your a photographer, and you just have to pay the piper.
Anyway I hate subscriptions so just consider the full price paid lost money and be done with it. That money is well spent if it keeps you from returning or worse, selling the phone! I should also tell you that a well known fashion photographer still uses an iPhone 11 Pro Max, I guess she didn’t consider the 12 or 13 an upgrade.
My biggest issue with the cameras is the lens flaring especially in video. Watch successful YouTubers who use iPhones and I always cringe when those green dots show up all the time. THAT should be addressed next year!
Rant over.
AlGardner
macrumors member
Thanks for the comment. Good point.
I went googling after reading it
And found really good thread. So for me - I’ll stick to the stock + Lightroom. Too bad it’s UI is pretty bad(
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Fat_Guy
macrumors 65816
You won’t like the reply…
I just got the app and busy with other things catching up on stuff I put off. Having said that I have Lightroom, ProCamera and Snapseed for still photos but rarely use them. I use the Apple app for work stuff (I’m not a photographer) but will learn Halide and go there when the photo matters. The first thing that pissed me off is that I have the first signs of an aging neck and wanted to examine that with a photo to which Apple seeems to want to blur to make my ugly mug look beautiful - Hahahaha! Maybe it’s just me and my bad photographer skills. I took a shot of a cracked toenail while in the tub and the Apple photo app messed up that too. If your taking photos for medical reasons then stay away from the Apple app!
So all I want is what the sensor sees and that is it! I don’t want some AI messing with the image! I’ll start fooling around with Halide and hide the other apps away and see what happens. I’ll be honest and say I’m kind of miffed at the cost of the app, but Apple images suck so bad for what I want that it drives me to this.
Ten feet away from me are some DSLRs I used to use: Nikon F4, Pentax istD, Nikon D5100, Nikon D70, Nikon D1X, Nikon D1H, Pentax K1000. All these mounted on tripods against a large grey backdrop - people like the look…. Old Elinchrom 500s, a soft box on wheels, a large reflector on wheels and then the video stuff. But I’m sure all those cameras would faithfully reproduce what I shoot in front of the lens. Maybe I’m old fashioned and from another era but I like my photos to reproduce what I see….
Just don’t ask me why…
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AlGardner
macrumors member
Actually, great reply) liked it.
But I’ve already edited my last, and added what I’ll do - stick with Lightroom for a while, based on the comments in the link I also inserted.
Was the photographer in the previous life, 10 years ago for 5 years).
Bowens lamps, couple of tripods, soft boxes, pocket Samsung NX2000 with couple of lenses, and Canon MarkII with lenses from 16 to 200mm.
Why I’m so mad at Apple - with such marketing campaigns and great reviews they promised me almost MkII (ok, NX2000) quality, instead they blurring it without any option to turn it off.
Not all pictures are bad. Some are great and totally at the DSLR level.
But results are inconsistent.
Too bad, except baked postprocessing problems they also have autofocus issues as well.
Trying to get used to it.
Already found out some tricks, like tapping precisely on the object which I want to shoot.
That almost impossible in some cases to have correct focus on the thin object on the table, if there are some space behind.
That tele lens is awesome, but only as a portrait tool, not for long distance shooting.
Everything I've seen in this thread is all user error. Some of it is due to Apple's fault in designing something that will crop 3x into a 12 megapixel sensor without telling the user and I disagree with that implementation, but at the end of the day if you learn how to get the best results from your tool and work within its limitations and feature set you can get some incredible images.
Shoot 1x, 3x, and 0.5x. Never shoot in between. If you see that it's often cropping from the 1x camera for your 3x shot, don't take the shot. It's bad design on their part to hide subpar digital zoom everywhere and not inform the user that's what it is.
Fat_Guy
macrumors 65816
At the extreme end of the argument you are correct. You can force the phone to use a lens by putting your finger over the other lens it may want to switch to. Using burst mode to select individual frames, etc.; but this is not really a proper situation to use the phone. These are instead - hacks - and in this case having a program that gives you complete control is closer to your argument of putting the onus on the user to be completely responsible when a shot is bad.
Most people just want a photograph of some life event to be properly done but even that is an iffy situation here, leading some to desire complete control of a shot if they are able, and the possibility of a bad shot if they don’t have that knowledge. It should “just work” as the motto says.
I have been reading this forum for several days and I agree with the statements written here by many of you. Some thoughts.
- I have returned my iphone 13 Pro Max because if something could define its performance it was the word "inconsistent". After taking hundreds of photos with the iPhone 13 Pro Max and comparing them with my old iPhone XS, I found no differences that, for me, would justify the change. In fact, I was getting one good photo of the iPhone 13 Pro Max versus several equally good ones of the iPhone XS. Which shows that it is not just a question of knowing how to use the camera since in both cases they were used following the same pattern, including tripod and remote shooting. Things that on the other hand we do not do every day with our phones.
- I have not returned my 13PM because it does not take better or even the same photos than a SLR camera, I have returned it because it does not take better or equal photos than a 3-year-old model.
- Obviously, it is the person who makes the photographer, not the camera. But, as I have read, most of us who have commented here have knowledge of photography and we know that as technology advances, it allows us to recreate in a more faithful way that moment that we want to immortalize. This has been sold to us by Apple with its latest phone model and in my case I cannot say that it was the case.
-Thurbis asked me if he thought it was a Hardware or Software problem:
- Perhaps my phone has been a defective unit and that is why I am in this forum waiting for someone to show us where we are wrong, those of us who comment here, but until then I am left with more than 23 pages of comments that I hope they reach Apple and have them take action.
- The other day I heard a Podcast in which it was said that the 13PM cameras are cameras intended for Video, in fact it is the best mobile on the market for it, and that secondarily they are cameras for photography.
- Conclusion: I think it is a Hardware problem worsened by excessive software processing
I am attaching a photo taken yesterday with my XS without retouching, I think I can still take good photos with this device.
- I have returned my iphone 13 Pro Max because if something could define its performance it was the word "inconsistent". After taking hundreds of photos with the iPhone 13 Pro Max and comparing them with my old iPhone XS, I found no differences that, for me, would justify the change. In fact, I was getting one good photo of the iPhone 13 Pro Max versus several equally good ones of the iPhone XS. Which shows that it is not just a question of knowing how to use the camera since in both cases they were used following the same pattern, including tripod and remote shooting. Things that on the other hand we do not do every day with our phones.
- I have not returned my 13PM because it does not take better or even the same photos than a SLR camera, I have returned it because it does not take better or equal photos than a 3-year-old model.
- Obviously, it is the person who makes the photographer, not the camera. But, as I have read, most of us who have commented here have knowledge of photography and we know that as technology advances, it allows us to recreate in a more faithful way that moment that we want to immortalize. This has been sold to us by Apple with its latest phone model and in my case I cannot say that it was the case.
-Thurbis asked me if he thought it was a Hardware or Software problem:
- Perhaps my phone has been a defective unit and that is why I am in this forum waiting for someone to show us where we are wrong, those of us who comment here, but until then I am left with more than 23 pages of comments that I hope they reach Apple and have them take action.
- The other day I heard a Podcast in which it was said that the 13PM cameras are cameras intended for Video, in fact it is the best mobile on the market for it, and that secondarily they are cameras for photography.
- Conclusion: I think it is a Hardware problem worsened by excessive software processing
I am attaching a photo taken yesterday with my XS without retouching, I think I can still take good photos with this device.
Attachments
Hello guys. I have been bothered by this issue for many days since I upgraded from my iPhone 7 to a new iPhone 13 Pro in October. So I have read the comments here, and want to also add some based on what I have seen in China.
In China, so many people are complaining about this camera quality issue, mainly about how over sharpened and over exposed the photos are and how we can't even change it in the first place. So many have complained on social media how the iPhone 12/13 camera makes their pets and selfies "old and ugly" (hair looks greasy, etc.). On top of that major issue, sometimes when you tap on 3x, the camera still uses a digital crop of 1x, which is confusing and unnecessary and produces the "watercolor" effect. I believe users should be able to choose the lens they want in any circumstances, rather than being forced to use another lens.
What's funny is that (second-hand) iPhone XS/XR are sold at a higher market price now because of their better cameras. Many people are saying the iPhone X series can take the best selfies. My old iPhone 7 even takes more natural pictures than my 13 Pro.
Also, due to this issue, people have found some workarounds. Here are what I have seen.
1. Take live photos and choose another frame as the cover, because only the original cover is overprocessed. Personally, I don't like taking live photos, so it's not my favorite choice.
2. Use burst mode by holding the “Shutter” button and drag it to the left, which would produce photos without the overprocessing.
3. Use third party apps, as so many here have already mentioned. Some Chinese developers have also made similar apps. But the subscription is a bit expensive.
4. Take ProRaw photos, but the downside is the photos are too large in size.
So far, I have tried all those methods, and I think ProRaw makes the best results but are too large. So I often use burst mode to bypass the baked in overprocessing. But I really hope Apple will be aware of this huge issue and correct it in future updates! Never would I have ever imagined a new model would take worse photos than much older models. 🙁
In China, so many people are complaining about this camera quality issue, mainly about how over sharpened and over exposed the photos are and how we can't even change it in the first place. So many have complained on social media how the iPhone 12/13 camera makes their pets and selfies "old and ugly" (hair looks greasy, etc.). On top of that major issue, sometimes when you tap on 3x, the camera still uses a digital crop of 1x, which is confusing and unnecessary and produces the "watercolor" effect. I believe users should be able to choose the lens they want in any circumstances, rather than being forced to use another lens.
What's funny is that (second-hand) iPhone XS/XR are sold at a higher market price now because of their better cameras. Many people are saying the iPhone X series can take the best selfies. My old iPhone 7 even takes more natural pictures than my 13 Pro.
Also, due to this issue, people have found some workarounds. Here are what I have seen.
1. Take live photos and choose another frame as the cover, because only the original cover is overprocessed. Personally, I don't like taking live photos, so it's not my favorite choice.
2. Use burst mode by holding the “Shutter” button and drag it to the left, which would produce photos without the overprocessing.
3. Use third party apps, as so many here have already mentioned. Some Chinese developers have also made similar apps. But the subscription is a bit expensive.
4. Take ProRaw photos, but the downside is the photos are too large in size.
So far, I have tried all those methods, and I think ProRaw makes the best results but are too large. So I often use burst mode to bypass the baked in overprocessing. But I really hope Apple will be aware of this huge issue and correct it in future updates! Never would I have ever imagined a new model would take worse photos than much older models. 🙁
AlGardner
macrumors member
Have no idea how to return 13pm via service center with the argument “photos not better than on my old XR”(
Only to sell it with loss of money. But more wait - more loss. Kind of a dilemma.
Other than the camera, everything is fine and indeed a large leap forward from my old phone, especially the ProMotion feature and the battery. We can only hope Apple will take care of this issue soon!
AlGardner
macrumors member
That is the point
I bought it because of the super duper camera. Other stuff - I need browser and email and couple of messengers.
My XR was more than enough.
And than more I’m reading different sources, more I’m being convinced that mostly this camera improvements are just a marketing.
Shots were taken in some ideal environment and processed by professionals.
Of course big screen and battery are good. But for 2.000$? Only this? Sorry, but not enough
ToddH
macrumors 68040
I don’t see anything wrong with the cameras on the 13 pro max at all! Are you folks zooming in past 100% when looking at an image? If so, it will begin to fall apart and look weird. I have attached several random shots I’ve taken for you all to inspect. Tell me what you think. See any flaws? Anything weird?
13 Pro Max, ProRAW, Lightroom edits
13 Pro Max, ProRAW, Lightroom edits
Fat_Guy
macrumors 65816
So the way I’ve set it up is that basically I let the Apple app just do what it does when I use it. When the shot is important I use the Halide app and and set the file to
RAW+JPEG and not ProRaw. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but ProRaw even in Halide means Apple processing - right?
As far as I see choosing the lens in Halide locks it in. And the focus loupe seems to work for me and my old eyes. Buyer’s remorse is subsiding and it looks like this app will be my go to for important shots with the jpg for online sharing and the DNG for PC photo processing apps.
So before anyone returns a new phone I would just bite the bullet and give the overpriced app a go. I’m not sure if all functionality is available on the trial version. But I would see if you can live with this and the photos it provides. And no, I’m not going to provide example photos for others to critique - been there and done that in other forums…
RAW+JPEG and not ProRaw. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but ProRaw even in Halide means Apple processing - right?
As far as I see choosing the lens in Halide locks it in. And the focus loupe seems to work for me and my old eyes. Buyer’s remorse is subsiding and it looks like this app will be my go to for important shots with the jpg for online sharing and the DNG for PC photo processing apps.
So before anyone returns a new phone I would just bite the bullet and give the overpriced app a go. I’m not sure if all functionality is available on the trial version. But I would see if you can live with this and the photos it provides. And no, I’m not going to provide example photos for others to critique - been there and done that in other forums…
I'm sorry to hear you can't return it. Best to hopefully wait it out for a proper update. I was within the seven day return window. People should be able to take regular snaps without resorting to using ProRaw but at the moment it seems to be the only option.
AbigailS
macrumors newbie
I got my iPhone 13 pro 4 days ago and the automatic photo editing is awful!! They haven’t fixed the problem at all.
I did a video recording to show how much the photo changes. Why didn’t I see this forum or anyone talking about how bad it is before I bought it?
Gunna see if k can return for the 12 pro where you can turn of hdr settings. 😩😩
I did a video recording to show how much the photo changes. Why didn’t I see this forum or anyone talking about how bad it is before I bought it?
Gunna see if k can return for the 12 pro where you can turn of hdr settings. 😩😩
mainemini
macrumors member
Not sure I'd call Halide overpriced. It seems better to my limited review than the $5 apps. Compared to the hassles of returning a $1,500 phone and restoring everything that doesn't transfer smoothly it's worthwhile to get better pictures if a bit disappointing it doesn't include a long exposure feature like the native Camera app at that price.
AlGardner
macrumors member
Yes.
That is a huge problem. But I may buy refurbished 11pm 512 for 1.200$, instead of 2.000$ for this 13pm((
Sell it as a second hand, loose at least 200-300$, but profit almost 500$ Comparing to 11pm price.
How could I bee so fool not reading reviews
My wife said good thing: Apple has huge trust and authority.
So people believe, what they are saying about products. But this is the last time I’ll blindly go and buy Apple product.
tedley
macrumors 6502
Dang! Those are some really good images. Thanks for sharing. Really sharp but not overly so. I like the he vibrant colors - I’m not one that feels they have to be ‘true’. Pro raw with Lightroom, eh, thanks for the tip. This gives me hope.
You must have used f1.5 or macro on the first one. I noticed the really narrow DOF. I initially thought it was just blurred until I found the focal point.
Taz Mangus
macrumors 604
ToddH
macrumors 68040
I have a Fuji X-E3 with a 18-55 lens and even though it's the king of high quality jpegs I use raw with Capture One to process. That being said, I personally don't want nor expect to spend time processing raw files on my phone. Those that do, good for them.
AlGardner
macrumors member
I have two cameras. One of them MarkII with plenty of optics.
But I specifically bought this iPhone to take good quality pictures, better than XR, not worse (not always, sometimes, especially autofocus and sharpening issues).
Now I’m very confused, what should I do.
Try to return (how?), law forbids returning gadgets if it works properly.
Sell it and buy 11pm? Maybe.
Wait for 15.4. For how long? There was not 15.3 released yet. And I’ve installed beta 15.3. No fixes.
Too bad new year gift for myself. Annoying thoughts about it for almost a week, and still no solution.
Raw pictures and editing on the phone? Each one for 2-3-4-5 minutes? Really?
Maybe even download on desktop and edit it there? Whoa guys. Stop. It is not what iPhone for. DSLR is.
I guess it depends if the problem is software or hardware. If software then hopefully it will get fixed. If hardware then the only solution would be to sell it or talk to Apple and give them samples so maybe they would replace it. They touted the cameras as a big thing so if the camera hardware is not functioning properly shouldn't they replace it under warranty?