Really switching to Intel!!??

[sebaz]

My thoughts on this....

First and foremost, if Apple were to move to Intel, it means that they have seen that IBM's future CPU offerings aren't that bright. Better jump off now, when you are riding a good wave with all the iPod-2-Mac switchers and what not, than be left with another "3-Ghz by we-are-not-so-sure-anymore date in time".

Secondly, Intel != Windows lack of security or Windows by that matter. If you think Apple were to move to x86 that means you are gonna get filled with viruses. Better read the differences between UNIX, LINUX, and MS Windows. Just because you have an Intel processor, doesn't mean that you must run Windows, else MS will take ur teddy bear away. Do not believe that if your mac were to have an Intel CPU inside you are gonna be able to run Windows and Dual boot to your heart's desire. To start, theres the whole OpenFirmware thing. Some of the hardware inside your mac have been flashed with mac BIOSes (see: videocard). Remember as well your off-the-shelve, or bittorrent downloaded XP version will most likely lack drivers for your Bluetooth chip, your Airport Extreme, and most likely have issues with keeping a good power management with your mac laptop:

Post by Billy: My ibook has this very bothersome fan noise all the time, I have an hour and a half of battery in windows Xp. I'm sad.

Add to that:

I cant find driver for _________.
My _______ doesnt work anymore.
When installing windows i formatted my mac partion/HD by mistake. Help!!!
What's a good antivirus..
Should i run ad-aware weekly????
Wait... i cant write to my NTFS Windows partition ..or my NTFS partition has gotten corrupted when reading/writing to it.
How do I format..
Where's my Windows CD-Key?
Do i need to Authenticate Windows within 15 days??

Now what's left? IF Turtle-neck-wearing Steve says "Yup we are goin Intel" tomorrow. Lots of mac-purists will either:

a) Flock the boards after the servers are back online with messages containing the following words/phrases

Im keeping my 400Mhz G4 forever. Apple is dead. Intel sucks. I want AMD. Apple is done.

Im selling my dual 2.x G5 powermac because Apple will no longer support their top of the line Pro product. And we all know companies who have them will go right ahead and by new ones, because hey...they are cheap and they don't do their work well.

To add to that: Tiger sucks, Linux is better. Microsoft must be happy. A mac isn't a mac if it doesn't have a PowerPC processor. I like a 167Mhz FSB. I'm not buying a new mac ever, but the new iPod looks nice.. etc etc..

b) Lots of them will resign their Apple love forever. Until of course, reviews of the new Intel-based macs start pouring in. They are fast...they are mac, Steve didnt let us down. They go and purchase, new mac after a long inner-battle.

c) Some see this as a good move, that can only help Apple to grow. Leave the IBM phase behind, and move on.

Maybe, its just a rumor. Maybe its true. In short I think that whatever Apple does to stay up to date with the computer world, open up their market share, keep a good price, appeal with faster products, will benefit all of us.

Remember when they ditched their ADC for the DVI standard??

Why did they do that? Because they saw that the only ones doing ADC were Apple, while everybody else had DVI. In the end they jumped with the DVI wagon, lower their price a bit, and the quality of their product is still good.

Think Different. Yes, but doesnt mean that you can't use what everybody else is to do it.

 

[runninmac]

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,67749,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

Oh that article made things seem alot better. If that emulator works seamlessly then it shouldn't be a problem. I can't wait for tommorow. Steve don't let us down!

 

[newamiga]

Pics from Moscone West?

OK surely someone reading this has been in Moscone West today to register or a student per chance.. Any banners up yet? Even covered the number of banners could be indicative of what is to come.. Pics anyone?

 

[casalynmac]

Dry Assesment from NYT

This article from the Times kind of deflated me. I was really hoping the move was motiveated by some very exciting potential, not by Apple being stuck in a corner with two bad options. The article implies x86.

http://nytimes.com/2005/06/06/techn...&en=3e3b854a03598d26&ei=5094&partner=homepage

 

[Mechcozmo]

Decades? The Mac has been on PowerPC for only a little over 10 years. We had 10 years of 68k, 10 years of PPC, and now, maybe, 10 years of something else.

If the rumors about transitive's tech are right, the transition to Intel chips would be about equal to the PPC transition.

Don't forget the System 7 to OS 8 transition and the pre-OS 9 to OS X transitions. A lot of people didn't like OS 8 and stayed on System 7.6 (PPC version of System 7).

Microsoft doesn't really decide which chips are used in PC's. They don't make PC's, remember? Of course, they have a lot of influence on the industry but they still are in a position to support whatever hardware makers want to make and consumers want to buy. Apple is in a different position because they have created a walled garden with hardware and the OS controlled by the same company.

Microsoft has a huge influence on the industry. MMX was made by Intel for Microsoft, and AMD had to reverse engineer it.
Oh, and for support they charge you a lot and then blame it on the hardware. The hardware company blames it on Windows....

 

[Les Kern]

I'm changing my prediction...

As a lot of you are I'm sure.
Mostly based on THIS article on the emulator.

 

[phranque27]

NYT laziness

This article from the Times kind of deflated me. I was really hoping the move was motiveated by some very exciting potential, not by Apple being stuck in a corner with two bad options. The article implies x86.

http://nytimes.com/2005/06/06/techn...&en=3e3b854a03598d26&ei=5094&partner=homepage

From the NYT Piece:

"Originally intended to counter Microsoft and Intel, the alliance was never able to stop the erosion of Apple's market share, as Apple customers were forced to upgrade their hardware and software to take advantage of the newer processor chip."

How silly is this line? Uh, yeah, to take advantage of the chip you did have to go out and BUY it!

 

[joeboy_45101]

and how will they mantain software developers developing soft for PPC Macs? oh... I see, no more new software for our Macs by 2006

If Apple does if fact move to the same CPU's being used in Windows machines then the question of developers is nonsense. Apple could potentially pick up more developers than it loses. Think of it, a company that only makes software for Windows right now might look toward developing on it on the Mac when the issue of CPU compatibility is gone.

At first I thought this was horrible news. But, the more I think about it the more I've come to the conclusion that IBM and Motorola have let Apple down time and time again. I wish we could have seen faster and more powerful G4's and G5's, but it just doesn't seem like that is going to happen unless there is a major shift on the part of Motorola and IBM in development and design.

I don't really see the x86 as a step forward for Apple, but they cannot stay where they are at right now. Maybe this will be more of collaboration by Apple and Intel or AMD and not an outright switch. We all know that Intel has been trying to kill off the x86 for years, see Itanium. And AMD is hungry for any kind of edge they can get over Intel. Maybe Apple is looking for a new platform something better than x86 and PowerPC. Maybe they have been working with Intel or AMD on a new CPU platform.

All in all, I think that Steve Jobs is a smart man and the people working at Apple are very intelligent. And I don't think for a minute that they would make a knowingly stupid decision that could hurt the Mac platform. I am going to end this by repeating what was written on an Apple recruiting ad, "There will always be skeptics. There will always be disbelievers. And there will always be Apple to prove them wrong."

 

[e-coli]

Hey guys:
Intel Pentium D 820 @ 2.8GHz (Dual-Core) 800MHz FSB

which she told me is fairly priced and may be part of the new iBook line. It is expected that the Powerbook line will recieve a Pentium D 840 by next year (3.2 GHz Dual Core), plus the PowerMac line will see a Pentium Extreme Edition 840 with Hyperthreading (starting at 3.2GHz).

The fact that this transition would begin with the iBook is the most ridiculous, strategically backwards statement in this entire thread.

Give me a break. *yawn*

 

[apexfork]

OK surely someone reading this has been in Moscone West today to register or a student per chance.. Any banners up yet? Even covered the number of banners could be indicative of what is to come.. Pics anyone?

All banners currently hanging in the lower floor are simply Tiger-related. I saw no "covered" signage or banners, but you know Apple is better at this game than to give away too much.

This should make for a good keynote tomorrow. Woohoo!

 

[dicklacara]

From the NYT Piece:

"Originally intended to counter Microsoft and Intel, the alliance was never able to stop the erosion of Apple's market share, as Apple customers were forced to upgrade their hardware and software to take advantage of the newer processor chip."

How silly is this line? Uh, yeah, to take advantage of the chip you did have to go out and BUY it!

Here's an interesting link that indicates that the Mac's market share may be closer to 16% of installed computers:

http://apple.slashdot.org/

Dick

 

[BornAgainMac]

3 Ghz iBooks are going to be possible and this is the best time to switch to Intel CPUs because the Mac market is still small enough for the change. Microsoft is weak right now, Apple needs to go for it.

 

[newamiga]

Signs

All banners currently hanging in the lower floor are simply Tiger-related. I saw no "covered" signage or banners, but you know Apple is better at this game than to give away too much.

This should make for a good keynote tomorrow. Woohoo!

I would still expect that they would have at least one or two covered banners up.. who knows.. maybe there really is nothing to announce and that is why there have been no real rumors besides the Intel thing..

 

[iMeowbot]

I would still expect that they would have at least one or two covered banners up.. who knows.. maybe there really is nothing to announce and that is why there have been no real rumors besides the Intel thing..

On the other hand, not having any special banners would make a statement that a CPU change still means business as usual...

 

[amac4me]

Wow ... what an awesome discussion thread. Who knows what we'll be discussing 24 hours from now!!! I can't wait until 10am PST to see what Steve has to say

 

[newamiga]

Live Blogging

I just hope we have a live irc feed of what is going on. I know there are plans in place.. I really wonder though if it is so major if they will nuke the feeds? Just curious but is the live feed using some sort of high speed, non 802.11 connection? I know when I went to WWDC two years ago the WiFi stunk and was almost non-existent in the large hall in Moscone West.

 

[LaMerVipere]

As a lot of you are I'm sure.
Mostly based on THIS article on the emulator.

Whoa, if that article is right the future if brighter for Apple than ever before.

This move to Intel could be a f'n brilliant move, if all that proves true.

 

[greenmeanie]

agree

I also agree a move to intel would be a good move.

 

[dicklacara]

I hope that Apple doesn't abandon the PPC architecture, Just adds an Intel option.

The promise of the CELL chip is just too great to ignore.

What would really make me happy is if QuickTransit also allows running of wintel apps on OS X PPC at 80% speed.

Then, we'd have the best of both worlds:

--OS X & Mac Apps running on both Apple/Intel & Apple/PPC boxes:

--OS X & Win Apps running on both Apple/Intel & Apple/PPC boxes.

That would be game, set and match!

Dick

 

[BenRoethig]

Apple is selling their soul to the DEVIL

How can the do that???

The could at least switch to the Cell by sony!!!

Which is great if you run programs written directly for the cell and don't need to run general computer tasks faster than my 900mhz iBook G3. The cell is only fast if software is written for the SPEs. Most software makers don't optimize for PowerPC and Altivec. Do you seriously think they're going to take the time and effort to optimize programs for the cell which would take considerably more programing?

 

[jiggie2g]

I hope that Apple doesn't abandon the PPC architecture, Just adds an Intel option.

The promise of the CELL chip is just too great to ignore.

What would really make me happy is if QuickTransit also allows running of wintel apps on OS X PPC at 80% speed.

Then, we'd have the best of both worlds:

--OS X & Mac Apps running on both Apple/Intel & Apple/PPC boxes:

--OS X & Win Apps running on both Apple/Intel & Apple/PPC boxes.

That would be game, set and match!

Dick

Cell will never be used in a PC by anyone it's not made for the kinds of instructuion set that a desktop class cpu requires , it's a simple instruction chip like a DSP chip just on steroids , it's more likely to be implemented in something like future GPU's.

 

[LaMerVipere]

I'm beginning to wish that the MR community at large was never even told that the Cell existed. It's developed some type of life of its own, taking over the minds of Mac fan-boys everywhere, getting them to think it's some type of messiah, savior, or do-it-all miracle. It could probably trick them to all drink from the punch bowl with little convincing. It's an entity. It's evil.

It...must...be...stopped.

 

[dicklacara]

Cell will never be used in a PC by anyone it's not made for the kinds of instructuion set that a desktop class cpu requires , it's a simple instruction chip like a DSP chip just on steroids , it's more likely to be implemented in something like future GPU's.

The CELL is not meant to be used alone in anything but simple. limited or single purpose devices. Moever the Main CPU is PPC based, so Mac Apps & Mac OS X could, in theory, run on a PPC (although, likely much slower than on a G5). IBM has Linux running on the CELL.

But the beauty of the CELL is that is designed to distribute work across other CELLs that it can find in the home, on the wireless/wired network, and even on the internet.

So your G5 + CELL runs an h264 encode of a home movie which normally takes several hours. Without you doing anything this 2-hour compute-intensive job is parceled out among the cells in your TiVo, your , Cable box, your TV, your Stereo, your Fridge, etc. and any other CELLS that can be discovered. You (actually the CELL) has transparently formed an ad hoc supercomputer grid and reduced your task from an unacceptable 2 hours to a very acceptable few minutes--- that's the promise of the CELL.

Dick

 

[BenRoethig]

Ever seen Steve booed off stage?

You might tomorrow.

He might if our PowerBooks are still using G4s in two years and PowerMacs had to be discontinued because IBM decided that desktop PowerPCs were not in its best interest and Apple couldn't swallow its pride and go with the PowerPC.

The PowerPC lost not because of technology, but because of market and inflexibility. When you have the same development costs and only 3% of the market, companies aren't exactly lining up to service your needs. Motorola and IBM aren't charities that serve the wants of the Mac crowds. They are businesses that are in business to make money. The returns on their investments just we're worth the money. With the G4, Motorola choose to focus on the needs of its embedded customers. With IBM I can guess that the G5 wasn't the success they hoped it would be and decided to shift their resources to more profitable parts of the chip division around this time last year.


As for inflexibility, that's on Apple's part. They (like many of us) were un willing to either adapt the platform for the average consumer or partner for those who would. We continue with the elitist our way or the highway thinking. Consumers want something that is simple, affordable, and just plain works. We want things that we just don't have the market shares.

 

[Bad_JuJu]

- Apple is NOT in a position to Walk Away from Hardware Sales at this time.
- A first step to the move would be to Grow the Software business to shrink the risk of the move.
- Most Importantly, we by Apple partly for the Virus protection we get by NOT RUNNING x86 Hardware. Change that and you dilute the brand.

- Seems to be with Rising Sales at this time, it's a strange and wrong time for this type of move.

I hate to burst your bubble buddy - BUT IT AIN'T THE HW THAT MAKES PCS VULNERABLE TO VIRUSES OR SPY WARE !!!!!!!!!

Its the freakin OS and or the apps running on the platform.

The EXACT same x86 HW runs on millions of servers using UNIX and Linux -- when was the last time you saw a headline like -- Millions of Linux servers at risk due to security flaw in Intel HW.

I'll tell you ---- you've never seen that headline

If Apple has done a good job on OS and app security - all should be well.

geez louise !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get a grip man !!!!!!!!