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Reddit CEO: Apollo-Related Subreddit Blackouts 'Will Pass,' No Significant Revenue Impact So Far

staypuftforums said:
The site itself is fine, as are many of the users. The main problem are the lonely demented freaks it attracts as moderators.
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Yes. I'd add that many of the subreddits are not hugely popular because of the high quality of moderation, as others have suggested, but rather because they have common names like "networking" or "video engineering" or whatever. Moderators are free to make up their own subjective rules and enforce them. The main issue with this is a typical user has no way of knowing if their question is too amateur or if their attitude is too professional. For example, I once asked a question in r/networking that resulted in my post being deleted by a mod for being too basic and I was accused of not doing basic research before asking the question. My question was something along the lines of, "I just spent two hours watching a video on YouTube about ___ topic, and I have a follow-up question about the video." So, my post was deleted because, in the moderator's subjective opinion, watching a two hour video on YouTube doesn't qualify as sufficient research before posing a question. Um okay. Then, in r/videoengineering, I was permabanned for suggesting to someone who asked a very technical question that the best way to wrap their head around the topic was to purchase a few small pieces of video test and measurement equipment and run some experiments in a home lab, and I pointed out that the most knowledgeable video engineers I know have home labs, buy gear, and run their own experiments to learn things in-depth. There, I was banned because I made an inexperienced person feel "less-then." So, I guess what I'm saying is: I have experienced both sides of the coin of subjective moderation decisions and I left Reddit three months ago because of feeling that it's a no-win situation. And, that's because of the fact that moderators have too much power to make Reddit a worthwhile place to visit. People who are attracted to systems of unchecked power are the sort of people who are moderators. Reddit needs to get back control of their platform from these people.

Btw, the "basic" question I asked to r/networking? I subsequently asked the question to Bing / GPT-4... I got the answer I was looking for without the bad attitude of r/networking's moderator. So, who needs Reddit?
 
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bigjnyc said:
See but by doing this you seem to be deliberately and maliciously hurting the users and the community who have absolutely nothing to do with this decision. Probably the very people who supported and used third party apps and relied on the information and help provided on reddit.... Are they to blame for the CEO's decision?
At the end of the day you can do whatever you choose.. it's your data and your decision.. but this is a perfect example of people getting overly passionate about something and becoming extremist. We see way too much of that nowadays.... People are just more reactionary and less and less rational.
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What those users have done is exactly the right thing. If the content is left but the users who made the content leave, what incentive is there for the CEO to change his ways if he knows that the content that has been created still stays? He can just ride out the storm, wait till things die down and when things get back to normal, the content will still be there just minus a few users. BUT what happens when users who have generated years of worthwhile content delete their content with the removal of their account? No content means no worthwhile reason to visit reddit if the good content has gone. Removing content will hit the CEO hard because that is the back bone of reddit, years and years worth of content that users can search through. There is literally years worth of medical, engineering, musical, scientific, history, political, religious, theological, educational content within reddit, provided free by it's millions of users. What is going to happen to reddit if the owners of those type of subreddits with years worth of content decide to quit reddit because of what the CEO is doing and thus delete their content along side with it. Are people still going to be interested in reddit if all that useful and worthwhile content is gone? hell no because it will just be a place full of bad operators and bad users posting rubbish. Will advertisers stick around given such a situation?, hell no. Suddenly the CEO finds him self on the receiving end of a financial crash because without the content to draw people in, advertisers will leave and investors will pull out.
 
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laptech said:
What those users have done is exactly the right thing. If the content is left but the users who made the content leave, what incentive is there for the CEO to change his ways if he knows that the content that has been created still stays? He can just ride out the storm, wait till things die down and when things get back to normal, the content will still be there just minus a few users. BUT what happens when users who have generated years of worthwhile content delete their content with the removal of their account? No content means no worthwhile reason to visit reddit if the good content has gone. Removing content will hit the CEO hard because that is the back bone of reddit, years and years worth of content that users can search through. There is literally years worth of medical, engineering, musical, scientific, history, political, religious, theological, educational content within reddit, provided free by it's millions of users. What is going to happen to reddit if the owners of those type of subreddits with years worth of content decide to quit reddit because of what the CEO is doing and thus delete their content along side with it. Are people still going to be interested in reddit if all that useful and worthwhile content is gone? hell no because it will just be a place full of bad operators and bad users posting rubbish. Will advertisers stick around given such a situation?, hell no. Suddenly the CEO finds him self on the receiving end of a financial crash because without the content to draw people in, advertisers will leave and investors will pull out.
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This is the "go scorched earth" mentality that is going to bring society down... We don't agree with something so we must completely tear it down and make those who have wronged us pay dearly! The innocent who are in the way be damned.
 
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laptech said:
BUT what happens when users who have generated years of worthwhile content delete their content with the removal of their account?
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Reddit makes it very difficult for individual users to remove all of their content, because account deletion does not delete content. It only deletes the account name. All content remains under an "account deleted" user name. To actually delete all of one's own content, it must be done post-by-post, one-at-a-time. I was so pissed at two moderation decisions over the past year, one six months ago, and another three months ago, that I have been deleting my content one post at-a-time. And, it is going go take a while longer, and it stinks. But, I left (or rather, am leaving...) Reddit because of aggressive use of subjective moderation decisions by moderators. If the CEO can reign in the company and kick off these moderators from their fiefdoms, I may go back. But, I have no use for Reddit until such time.

The best outcome, imo, is one where Reddit makes moderating more time consuming and difficult, so that moderators chill out a bit and don't moderate as much!

And, I say that because of the two moderation decisions made against me, one for asking too basic of a question in r/networking and another for making an inexperienced person feel "less-than" in r/videoengineering when I told them the only way I know of to learn about HDR color grading is to have an HDR color grading system and monitor, which I still believe is absolutely true and factual!

Peace!
 
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BWNYC said:
Reddit makes it very difficult for individual users to remove all of their content, because account deletion does not delete content. It only deletes the account name. All content remains under an "account deleted" user name. To actually delete all of one's own content, it must be done post-by-post, one-at-a-time. I was so pissed at two moderation decisions over the past year, one six months ago, and another three months ago, that I have been deleting my content one post at-a-time. And, it is going go take a while longer, and it stinks. But, I left (or rather, am leaving...) Reddit because of aggressive use of subjective moderation decisions by moderators. If the CEO can reign in the company and kick off these moderators from their fiefdoms, I may go back. But, I have no use for Reddit until such time.

The best outcome, imo, is one where Reddit makes moderating more time consuming and difficult, so that moderators chill out a bit and don't moderate as much!

And, I say that because of the two moderation decisions made against me, one for asking too basic of a question in r/networking and another for making an inexperienced person feel "less-than" in r/videoengineering when I told them the only way I know of to learn about HDR color grading is to have an HDR color grading system and monitor, which I still believe is absolutely true and factual!

Peace!
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If you have been following the thread from the start you will have noticed that someone provided a script that will delete all content from a users account, which some members in here have used with success.
 
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laptech said:
If you have been following the thread from the start you will have noticed that someone provided a script that will delete all content from a users account, which some members in here have used with success.
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Oh that's awesome! Thank you for that info! Obviously, I have not been following the thread from the beginning. Oops!

I really appreciate it! THANK YOU! : )
 
I’ve quit Reddit over this. I believe I’d be considered a pretty heavy user, averaging ~10hrs of moderating and participating in a number of communities daily. Apollo makes Reddit a pleasure to use and is pretty essential to my workflow.

Reddit may well recover, but I know many users who plan to never return and are some of the strongest contributors and moderators on the platform. I think the damage to Reddit will last far longer than Steve Huffman thinks even if it is not doomed.

This whole episode is a cautionary tale on incompetent leadership and poor communication. Steve Huffman is completely unqualified and has shown a breathtaking level of immaturity and incompetence. I am one of many users (and volunteer moderators), who would have happily paid a reasonable amount to continue using Apollo and the other tools I rely on. Reddit is walking away from the profitability that 3rd party apps could have represented.

It’s been quite fun watching my phone use drop by 60% daily and may well be for the best. It’s beautiful outside.
 
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CarlJ said:
I mean, in the first sentence, he says, "about 1000" subreddits - there's well over 9000 that are participating in the blackout. I wouldn't put much weight in anything he says.
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I don't really get these kinds of people... but apparently, there are a fair number of them, and they always seem to migrate into management.

I work for a company that you've likely never heard of... (and no, I won't be outing them here) but I was recently in an all-hands meeting at my office where one of the executive types made a comment along the lines of, "The customers haven't complained at all about our recent software releases!" My coworker and I just looked at each other with shock and bemusement on our faces, as we (and pretty much everybody else in the audience) knew full well that this was a bald-faced lie. Our customers have been complaining ceaselessly... and with good reason. Later that same day, I even walked past this executive's office..... where I overheard him openly discussing some of those complaints with other executives. With the door. Wide. Open.

So, yeah... I imagine similar conversations are going on within Reddit HQ; everybody there knows the true severity of the situation, and every word that is uttered is about how to manage damage control. Will they succeed? Only time will tell.
 
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BWNYC said:
Oh that's awesome! Thank you for that info! Obviously, I have not been following the thread from the beginning. Oops!

I really appreciate it! THANK YOU! : )
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Could you just imagine the panic on the CEO's face if reddit admins told him they are seeing years worth of posts being deleted from the most popular subreddits because the owners are removing their accounts in protest at what the CEO is doing. Money flashing before his eyes down the drain lol.
 
This is going to blow over just like the Netflix situation blew over, turns out Netflix now has higher than expected sign ups due to the shared password fiasco. Same here, Reddit will retain enough of a user base where this will only be a speedbump for them. Honestly I don't see the issue, apps which are piggybacking on Reddit's information are complaining because a non profit producing private company is trying to turn a profit, I don't really blame Reddit. These app developers have been coasting on Reddit's good will, I'm not even sure they are much better than the stock Reddit app as I don't find apps like Apollo or Reddplanet that much better, and worse in some ways as no 3rd party app has access to Reddit chats.

So yeah, Reddit will lose a few viewers who are loyal to some 3rd party apps, they will recover and life will continue as normal until they break a profit, or don't and go under.
 
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laptech said:
Could you just imagine the panic on the CEO's face if reddit admins told him they are seeing years worth of posts being deleted from the most popular subreddits because the owners are removing their accounts in protest at what the CEO is doing. Money flashing before his eyes down the drain lol.
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Actually, I'm deleting my posts because of the moderators.

I wish the CEO would get control over Reddit away from 'em.
 
Looking forward to some new Mods over at Reddit. The ones dark are gonna get booted pretty quick. Time to find their ego boost elsewhere.
 
spinedoc77 said:
This is going to blow over just like the Netflix situation blew over, turns out Netflix now has higher than expected sign ups due to the shared password fiasco. Same here, Reddit will retain enough of a user base where this will only be a speedbump for them. Honestly I don't see the issue, apps which are piggybacking on Reddit's information are complaining because a non profit producing private company is trying to turn a profit, I don't really blame Reddit. These app developers have been coasting on Reddit's good will, I'm not even sure they are much better than the stock Reddit app as I don't find apps like Apollo or Reddplanet that much better, and worse in some ways as no 3rd party app has access to Reddit chats.

So yeah, Reddit will lose a few viewers who are loyal to some 3rd party apps, they will recover and life will continue as normal until they break a profit, or don't and go under.
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You do not seem to understand the problem. No one is contesting that Reddit should be allowed to make a profit, that is not the issue. The issue is Reddit is trying to kill off competition by setting the API price so high no 3rd party developer will be able to afford it and thus be forced to shutdown leaving reddit's own poorly made bad performing app as the only player in town.
 
BWNYC said:
Btw, the "basic" question I asked to r/networking? I subsequently asked the question to Bing / GPT-4... I got the answer I was looking for without the bad attitude of r/networking's moderator. So, who needs Reddit?
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The irony of this is that Reddit's claim is that Bing/GPT-4 was trained off of all their data so in a sense (if this is true) you still used Reddit to get your answer and if Reddit goes away maybe Bing/GPT-4 suffers too?
 
Phogro said:
The irony of this is that Reddit's claim is that Bing/GPT-4 was trained off of all their data so in a sense (if this is true) you still used Reddit to get your answer and if Reddit goes away maybe Bing/GPT-4 suffers too?
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idk? But, GPT-4 doesn't have a bad attitude like the r/networking moderator so it's a more friendly choice for basic questions

🤷‍♂️
 
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laptech said:
You do not seem to understand the problem. No one is contesting that Reddit should be allowed to make a profit, that is not the issue. The issue is Reddit is trying to kill off competition by setting the API price so high no 3rd party developer will be able to afford it and thus be forced to shutdown leaving reddit's own poorly made bad performing app as the only player in town.
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It's not competition, it's 3rd party devs making apps that leech information from Reddit. Now if there were an actual competitor to Reddit, maybe let's say Digg was rebooted or a new social app was released, then maybe it might be anti-competitive if somehow Reddit blocked them from existing. Personally I can't agree that Reddit's app is that bad, the worst part about it IMO are the ads, which are easily managed with a good adblocker. The only "ads" which make it through an adblocker are the promoted stories.

And Reddit's profit is what's being contested, that's their own line that they are changing things to be able to turn a profit.
 
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spinedoc77 said:
It's not competition, it's 3rd party devs making apps that leech information from Reddit. Now if there were an actual competitor to Reddit, maybe let's say Digg was rebooted or a new social app was released, then maybe it might be anti-competitive if somehow Reddit blocked them from existing. Personally I can't agree that Reddit's app is that bad, the worst part about it IMO are the ads, which are easily managed with a good adblocker. The only "ads" which make it through an adblocker are the promoted stories.

And Reddit's profit is what's being contested, that's their own line that they are changing things to be able to turn a profit.
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Reddit could probably use the API to send ad's to third-party apps, disguised as content. They just don't want to invest the money into doing so. I could not care less either way; I don't use Reddit anymore.
 
GizmoDVD said:
They saw zero revenue from Apollo subs and in fact lost some with the app not showing ads. What do you expect? They are a business, not a charity. Even if they see a 20% reduction in posters, they’ll still be more profitable with everyone using the official App.
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Yeah you still don’t get it.

Christian (Apollo dev) wasn’t against charges coming in.

it was the fact they told him there wouldn’t be any charges coming earlier this year and then announced API pricing that meant Apollo would have to pay circa $20 million annually, starting 4 weeks from the announcement.

No ifs, no buts, no maybes, no engagement.

Just Reddit saying, if you don’t like it, **** off.

The Reddit/Apollo relationship is a 2 way street, as I suspect a lot of people come to Reddit via his app, as Reddit’s app is so shockingly bad.

They come, they post and those posts show up in Google searches, which drives more people to Reddit.
 
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