Refunds when you get an app update

[tkukoc]

This is fascinating.

Care to divulge the app that did this?

The application is called Video Explorer, which is the one he took out the Chromecast/AppleTV mirroring. He recently updated the original app but the reviews are the same, doesn't mirror. But he has Video Explorer II for Chromecast/AppleTV and that one works just fine. Even has the application on the app store on AppleTV. Cannot stand this developer and will not support his crippleware further then I did.

 

[Mlrollin91]

I would have to disagree with the pc comparison. With a pc you have the option to downgrade your os. If you find your programs do not run under the current os, downgrade to the os that does work and your problem is solved.

Apple does not allow this with ios. So it is a very simplistic and incorrect comparison to make.

Quoting the price you paid for an os incompatible app Is irrelevant. No one cares how much you paid. Would the argument be stronger if I said I paid $100 for an app that no longer works one day after purchase because of an irreversible ios update? How about $150 and 2hrs after purchase? Or $200 and 10min after purchase? The fact is that you paid money for something which, through no fault of your own, is broken by "the system" apple enforces.

I too would not give a **** about a $1.99 app no longer working. But if the collective sum off all of my app purchases stopped working after a single ios update which I can not reverse, I would take issue with that.

And I would disagree with your reasoning. If you update to iOS 10 and notice that an app is broken. You have about a week to downgrade if that app is truly that important. Then you can wait to see if the developer updates their software for iOS 10 and the functionality is the same. No one is forcing you to upgrade to the next iOS version. So that is a risk you are taking on your own. And if you do it early enough, the option to downgrade does in fact exist.

 

[bufffilm]

The application is called Video Explorer, which is the one he took out the Chromecast/AppleTV mirroring. He recently updated the original app but the reviews are the same, doesn't mirror. But he has Video Explorer II for Chromecast/AppleTV and that one works just fine. Even has the application on the app store on AppleTV. Cannot stand this developer and will not support his crippleware further then I did.

Well I'm glad that Apple refunded your money...you were smart to document everything.

I agree that the developer did what he did so that he could release a "new product" and charge people more...one reason why I don't blindly update my apps just because a later version is available.

What did you wind up buying after this?

I ask because the Chromecast thing may be something I get later on and always good to get feedback from users firsthand.

 

[tkukoc]

What did you wind up buying after this?

I ask because the Chromecast thing may be something I get later on and always good to get feedback from users firsthand.

I ended up picking up AllCast app, it works alright.. not great though. I can download via google drive or sometimes if I'm lucky safari will recognize the application before attempting to download a video or mp3 file. Then I just tell Safari to move the file over to AllCast so I can view from there. It's a bit buggy but again it's better then not having anything. Now in IOS 10 beta 2, some of this stuff isn't working because Safari won't relay to certain applications. Clearly this is because those applications are not updated yet, that's the case for AllCast more then likely.

 

[laudern]

And I would disagree with your reasoning. If you update to iOS 10 and notice that an app is broken. You have about a week to downgrade if that app is truly that important. Then you can wait to see if the developer updates their software for iOS 10 and the functionality is the same. No one is forcing you to upgrade to the next iOS version. So that is a risk you are taking on your own. And if you do it early enough, the option to downgrade does in fact exist.

So if person x is y number of updates behind the current ios version and updates their phone today, they have A week to downgrade?

No they don't. You are making far too many assumptions and assuming everyone uses their device just as you do.

I dare say the vast majority of ios users wouldn't have a clue what version they are even on.

 

[Mlrollin91]

So if person x is y number of updates behind the current ios version and updates their phone today, they have 10 days to downgrade?

No they don't. You are making far too many assumptions and assuming everyone uses their device just as you do.

You keep referring back to ios10. Why? Is it not possible for a app to not work after a x.x.x upgrade? Unlikely but not impossible.

I dare say the vast majority of ios users wouldn't have a clue what version they are even on.

If you read my original post where I mention that the app that I am using as my example will no longer work under iOS 10 because of Apple API changes. Therefore yes, it cannot be updated. The only assumption I am making is that people are on the latest iOS update available for their device. And considering iOS devices now auto-downloads it, the majority of people are probably running the latest version for their device.

 

[laudern]

If you read my original post where I mention that the app that I am using as my example will no longer work under iOS 10 because of Apple API changes. Therefore yes, it cannot be updated. The only assumption I am making is that people are on the latest iOS update available for their device. And considering iOS devices now auto-downloads it, the majority of people are probably running the latest version for their device.

You are actually making at least 4 assumptions.

The user updated their device exactly when the latest x. Upgrade was released.

The user is aware that they can downgrade within the small window which is given and not publicised.

The user uses the app within that time frame.

And finally, the user has the knowledge how to actually downgrade

You may be able to provide justification to your own very narrow minded example. But please don't spread that same flawed logic to the greater masses.

 

[RedOrchestra]

And finally, the user has the knowledge how to actually downgrade

Exactly. just how many people are going to know about that? vs just walking away from the App.

 

[laudern]

Exactly. just how many people are going to know about that? vs just walking away from the App.

And that's where arrogant "it was just a $1.99 app, get over it." thinking starts.

$1.99 x xxxxxx number of users adds up to a lot of money which has been wasted. But Apple and the developer still benefit from that $1.99.

One final example of a 'what if' situation. What if you update your os and then buy the app which is broken on the current os? are we expected to wait xx number of months for the developer to maybe /maybe not fix it?

 

[Mlrollin91]

And that's where arrogant "it was just a $1.99 app, get over it." thinking starts.

$1.99 x xxxxxx number of users adds up to a lot of money which has been wasted. But Apple and the developer still benefit from that $1.99.

One final example of a 'what if' situation. What if you update your os and then buy the app which is broken on the current os? are we expected to wait xx number of months for the developer to maybe /maybe not fix it?

Apple will offer refunds if the app is broken from the beginning. And if they receive enough reports of it they will contact the developer and pull the app. I've had this happen a few times. Additionally, if Apple won't refund you you can always dispute the charge with your CC company because you didn't get what you purchased. There is a lot more that can be done with a newly purchased broken app vs an app being updated and functionality changing or iOS breaking functionality.

Back to my previous discussion with you. For someone that is telling me to not use logical fallacies, calling me narrow minded is an ad hominem logical fallacy and you attacking me and not solely my argument. It's not needed. Stick to the points and don't put down others.

My entire point which you don't seem to be getting is, there is no guarantee that an app is going to work for a year, there is no guarantee it's going to work for 6 months. It is on the user to research if an app will continue to function the same way before updating the app or updating iOS, especially if they depend on it. It is in no way Apple's fault that the developer changed the app, and the user is not entitled to a refund from Apple. The only thing they can do is take it up with the developer.

 

[laudern]

Apple will offer refunds if the app is broken from the beginning. And if they receive enough reports of it they will contact the developer and pull the app. I've had this happen a few times. Additionally, if Apple won't refund you you can always dispute the charge with your CC company because you didn't get what you purchased. There is a lot more that can be done with a newly purchased broken app vs an app being updated and functionality changing or iOS breaking functionality.

Back to my previous discussion with you. For someone that is telling me to not use logical fallacies, calling me narrow minded is an ad hominem logical fallacy and you attacking me and not solely my argument. It's not needed. Stick to the points and don't put down others.

My entire point which you don't seem to be getting is, there is no guarantee that an app is going to work for a year, there is no guarantee it's going to work for 6 months. It is on the user to research if an app will continue to function the same way before updating the app or updating iOS, especially if they depend on it. It is in no way Apple's fault that the developer changed the app, and the user is not entitled to a refund from Apple. The only thing they can do is take it up with the developer.

I agree. There is no guarantee it will work for x amount of time. A year time frame is once again, irrelevant and an incorrect assumption. Thus once it because unusable due to an ios update which can not be downgrade from (a 7 day window only offered immediately upon an os upgrade is not a point to defend) due to policies put in place by Apple, a refund is required.

Also please show me in the terms and conditions of the app store that consumers buy an app at their own risk of future incompatibility. Or is this another implied assumption?

 

[Mlrollin91]

Also please show me in the terms and conditions of the app store that consumers buy an app at their own risk of future incompatibility. Or is this another implied assumption?

This pretty much covers exactly what you are asking for.

"e. NO WARRANTY: YOU EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT USE OF THE LICENSED APPLICATION IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND THAT THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO SATISFACTORY QUALITY, PERFORMANCE, ACCURACY, AND EFFORT IS WITH YOU."

Additionally, the words "all sales are final" pretty much covers that as well. Doesn't matter if it works for a day or works for a year. All sales are final.

 

[laudern]

This pretty much covers exactly what you are asking for.

"e. NO WARRANTY: YOU EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT USE OF THE LICENSED APPLICATION IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND THAT THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO SATISFACTORY QUALITY, PERFORMANCE, ACCURACY, AND EFFORT IS WITH YOU."

Additionally, the words "all sales are final" pretty much covers that as well. Doesn't matter if it works for a day or works for a year. All sales are final.

That leads in to what I was going to mention next. If you live in a country with weak consumer laws you may find the quote I was asking for. Luckily for me, in my country, that is not the case.

Additionally, apple's T&Cs do not override the laws of the country where the sale was made.

 

[bufffilm]

I ended up picking up AllCast app, it works alright.. not great though. I can download via google drive or sometimes if I'm lucky safari will recognize the application before attempting to download a video or mp3 file. Then I just tell Safari to move the file over to AllCast so I can view from there. It's a bit buggy but again it's better then not having anything. Now in IOS 10 beta 2, some of this stuff isn't working because Safari won't relay to certain applications. Clearly this is because those applications are not updated yet, that's the case for AllCast more then likely.

Thanks...will consider it!