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The most bizarre thing is they're risking their reputation, and Tim's reputation, on something nobody is interested in.
Wrong. AR is technology, and investing in it may likely have long term payoffs. Like Newton helped bring iPhones and iPads - even if "on something nobody is interested in."

Far-forward thinking by Tim Cook and his Board is what makes Apple Apple.
 
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Yet nobody seems able to explain what this product would do and who it would be for. In the case of other companies it seems to be mostly gaming related.

relatively little of Microsoft hololens is gaming.



or magic leap

https://www.magicleap.com/news/how-ar-remote-assistance-can-aid-surgery

the problem is more so commenters who can only map this into a gaming context and those laboring under the impression that VR==gamming. Or that it is has to be in their limited budget.


If Apple intends to push this as a 90% VR gaming and 10% AR tool then yeah it probably is a miss.
The huge problem there is that Apple has pounded the table over and over again at the last 3-6 WWDC sessions about AR. So likely more an extension of what the AR abilities iPhone/iPads already have into 'better' than in aping 'Ready Player One" .


Apple’s not a hard core gaming company.

They don't have to be to do AR.

This absolutely wreaks of Tim Cook and other executives feeling the pressure to release a new product category because the last major category was the Watch and that was like 9 years ago. Even other companies trying to make VR and AR a thing wreaks of throwing something out there desperate for it to be The Next Big Thing™.

No it reeks of you have had 10's of millions of dollars of funding per year over the least six (or more ) years. It is time to 'piss or get off the pot'. The lightweight headset is technologically blocked for several more years so let's delay everything and still steadily burn money. Really?

I doubt that Cook et. al. are trying to substantively change the balance sheet in just a handful of quarters. It is more so about inaction due to artificial perfection. At some point have to get the product out to developers and users so that can get feedback and incrementally improve the product. Even more so if the goals and objectives keep slip-sliding around over the six years. If it is 'always something else... need another 1-2 years'. That gets old.
 
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I'm prepared to eat my hat if I'm wrong and plenty of people thought the smartphone in general was a product nobody needed, but I just don't see a clear use case for a product like this -- at least not from Apple and not in the consumer space.

  • Immersive gaming is probably a big one, but Apple has never been a gaming platform for these kinds of games.
  • Everyday AR might be neat, but not with ski goggles.
  • Immersive FaceTime with long-distance partners, family or friends I can see, but the price will be too steep just for that.
That leaves all sorts of business and professional use cases. Frankly I don't know enough about that so I'm not going to make stuff up, but there does not appear to be great traction for others already in the market.

So who is this product really for?
Remember how well the Microsoft Hololens DOD contract went? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
 
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The "this version is mostly for developers" argument that I see on here a lot makes no sense. Why, as a developer, would you invest your precious time to develop apps for a device that no consumers are buying? Look at Apple TV. It's not a commercially successful product and the dismal App Store offerings reflect that.
I've actually seen a lot of Microsoft's 3,5k+ Hololens in "developement". Not for mass market apps, but in science and AR-developement and in cases where the software is developed for a specific project using the holo lens. Similar to how computers were used before the IBM-PC or Commodore 64 made them mass market products. Mixed reality is not a big market, but Microsoft is believed to have sold more than 300k of them over the last 8 years, despite it being an ugly and generally unimpressive product (at least in my experience with it). I'm sure, apple will sell more, there's at least as much apple fans with more money than wits out their who'll gladly spend 3k on a new toy. I wouldn't be surprised if they pass that 300k in the first year. 1 million? Probably not.
 
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So none of that could have been challenged or nixed? That can only happen if designers are reporting to Jeff Williams? And do you really think no one else in the company had a say something like the so-called trash can Mac Pro? When Phil Schiller announced it on stage he said “can’t innovate my ass”. Clearly the executive team thought they were going down the right path. They made the wrong bet but that was about a lot more than design.

When you are the Executive VP of design and the MP 2013 design is painted into a corner.... that is your responsibility. Anyone would didn't snore their way through a decent Thermodynamics class could see that design had major thermal coupling problems.


Most likely the reason that stuck around for 6 freaking years is that some high level exec was heavily defending it. It is extremely doubtful that was Schiller since marketing would have had all the real numbers of sales and warranty product payouts. And an earful from customers. That's their job (to collect data as to want are useful products or not).
Yeah he 'sales pitched it' initially on stage.... but the next 5 years ...


When Jobs got on stage and effectively said "you are holding the iPhone wrong... that is way reception is bad ' ... that was irresponsible RDF , BS also. Apple's response after the Butterfly keyboard ... was largely about denial. Every see Ive jump up and see "we are on top of this .. we're going to fix this' Or fix anything of one of his designs?
 
No it reeks of you have had 10's of millions of dollars of funding per year over the least six (or more ) years. It is time to 'piss or get off the pot'. The lightweight headset is technologically blocked for several more years so let's delay everything and still steadily burn money. Really?

I doubt that Cook et. al. are trying to substantively change the balance sheet in just a handful of quarters. It is more so about inaction due to artificial perfection. At some point have to get the product out to developers and users so that can get feedback and incrementally improve the product. Even more so if the goals and objectives keep slip-sliding around over the six years. If it is 'always something else... need another 1-2 years'. That gets old.


Who buys it? Who is the person who is going to cough three grand for this? What is it's practical utility?
 
Tim Cook is the guy who cancelled the iPod even though they still sold millions of them and decided people should use their iPhone for music even if they don't want to. The market for refurb iPods is huge.
Tim Cook is the guy who decided to make the MacOS less intuitive (take a look at the new System Settings and tell me if this is a step forward)
Tim Cook rushed out OS releases that are not ready (Ventura is far worse than the previous OS)
Tim Cook refuses to improve Safari's compatibility
Tim Cook now rushing out an unbaked product to burnish his legacy.
Tim Cook is not worth what he is paid, I don't care what the stock price is at
 
None of this changes the fact Apple Music is an awful mess.
In what sense? Apple and Spotify do exactly the same thing. The catalogs are exactly the same. I can search for music I want, make playlists and play music. The music sounds the same. I can control it with my Apple Watch, plays in my car, works with home pods. There are no substantive differences between SPOT and APPL music. Subscriber differences are down to 1) Free tiers on SPOT 2) the number of people with Android phones vs iDevices. And that does not even touch SPOT's horrible privacy policies, how they track you and what they do with your data. And have you seen the latest version of their interface? Talk about hot mess.
 
So who is this product really for?
I doubt Apple even really knows. They'll probably ship it with a standard iPhone/Watch-style OS, some apps made for VR, a VR SDK for third-party devs, basically tell them "eh, you figure it out", and eventually a killer-app will fall into Apple's lap.
 
Also, to the "Apple always releases game changers" argument: the HomePod. The HomePod was an example of Apple being a bit late to the market and failing to change the game. The same thing could happen with these goggles.
I think with smart speakers, there is limited amount of potential game to be changed. Speakers are a fairly mature technology. Good speakers now aren’t all that different from good speakers from 30 years ago.

99% of the UI is voice. The physical design/appearance of the device has almost zero relevance to usability. There is basically no GUI. You interact with all smart speakers in the same way: You give a command or ask a question with your voice. The only real differentiation is how well it can interpret your commands. I guess the only exception to this is handoff from a different device.

VR, on the other hand, has a huge need for technological improvements. The physical design of the device is immensely important. The GUI is going to require a ton of innovation. The input capabilities are greater than any other device. There is a lot more game to be changed.

Or who knows, maybe that Apple YouTube channel whose name I can't recall at the moment is correct and Apple will discontinue the iPhone in a few years in favor of goggles... 🤷‍♂️
I personally see more potential to replace desktop monitor setups than phones. And for people who don't need a ton of computing power, it could replace their whole desktop computer setup.
 
I doubt Apple even really knows. They'll probably ship it with a standard iPhone/Watch-style OS, some apps made for VR, a VR SDK for third-party devs, basically tell them "eh, you figure it out", and eventually a killer-app will fall into Apple's lap.

Not if people don't buy it.

The idea that developers will make killer apps which will sell the device is putting the cart before the horse. Developers flocked to iOS because Apple was selling millions of iPhones, the first two models did nearly 20 million in sales iirc.

Nobody is going to invest their time building software for a platform nobody is using.
 
I trust Apple to make all the right decisions about when the time is right to ship new products.

They've clearly invested a huge amount of time and money into this exciting new product, and I can't wait to place my pre-order for day one arrival.

We mustn't undermine Apple or the products it is working to bring us.
I love a lot of Apple products but the wool on you must be super thick
 
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We shouldn't judge this until Apple enters the space.

Apple has completely changed the game almost every time they enter a new product category with a perfectly refined device and cohesive user experience.
Not a 3000 device with limited usage it hasn’t
 
HomePod isn't a flop. It's still around now with new hardware and new hardware revisions in the works.

What are the other "plenty of misses" you have in mind?
HomePod is most definitely a flop. You might want to give your rose tinted glasses a proper clean
 
To use an extreme hyperbolic example, if sales are the only barometer, Macdonalds must have the best burgers in the world.

"Flop" refers to something that doesn't sell. It's not a judgment of quality. It doesn't matter how great something is; if it doesn't sell, it's a flop. Many movies now regarded as cult classics were box office flops. It doesn't say anything about the quality of the movie, only how it performed commercially.
 
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I don't think resolution or hardware is the problem when it comes to market acceptance, though. Look at Nintendo. Their gaming consoles have the worst graphics of the big three, yet they are wildly popular because the games are great. Apple will need to do a lot more than deliver the best hardware and graphics to convince the general public they need VR in their lives.
I think that's mostly true when it comes to gaming. A higher resolution won't make a huge difference for many gaming genres. But for general productivity use? Current VR/AR hardware capabilities are a huge drawback. They simply aren't good at displaying a large amount of text and UI, features which are very important for many productivity use cases. Even if my Valve Index had the best software ever, with a fancy custom OS, I couldn't/wouldn't use it for general productivity, because the screen quality and comfort just isn't there.
 
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HomePod is the only Apple product mentioned as an Apple failure product in the last 20 years. It’s always HP. Meanwhile HomePod is back and now leading the way with HP mini
It’s not leading the way. I know no one that has one and they are all Apple fans. Most have either Sonos or Just use Alexa or z google speakers and have no reason to change.
 
all the more reason to avoid it.

i'll wait for the gen 2-3 with improved hardware, stable software, and a lower price! ;)

you'd have to be a fool or have more money than sense to buy one of these things at launch but that sums up a lot of apple buyers so :rolleyes:

you obviously have no idea what the "metaverse" is.
The main market is YouTubers who are heavily promoting Apples gear anyway and will get theirs for free. No normal user is dropping 3000, not even in a normal financial climate and certainly not now
 
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To use an extreme hyperbolic example, if sales are the only barometer, Macdonalds must have the best burgers in the world.

Lol that makes absolutely no sense. You are trying to compare two completely different animals here. The HomePod didn't sell, it failed miserably. It doesn't mean it wasn't a good product as I've stated numerous times. But in the world of sales, it failed, which is all that matter to Apple. They discontinued it, made a smaller one, then made a similar cheaper version of the original in hopes it sells. But as far as the original goes it was a complete failure.

Now if I would have written "The HomePod was a poorly made device that sounded awful" you might have some ground to stand on. I said it was a flop, because financially it was.
 
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