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Most people are broke and cutting costs. I only have Netflix/ATV+ because it's part of my TM cell plan. I would not pay for it. Prime is the only exception and I would not pay if I did not purchase stuff from Amazon.com. I bought an OTA antenna and watch some live sports while playing on the main networks.
 
Apple TV+ - the only reason I can think of as to why exists is that Apple thought it was going to launch the Vision product sooner - and for less - and it needed to have a library of great VR content for it.

It’d be nice if that were the reason. They might have more content for the Vision Pro. I’m pretty stoked by what the immersive shows they’ve produced. They are showing just how compelling high-quality 3D can be.

However, I don’t think that was the reason for Apple TV+. I think they were following a trend. It isn’t a business they should be in as they proved with “The Problem with Jon Stewart”.
 
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The market has pretty much spoken.

If you assume AM has around 90 million subs (we don't know because they have stopped reporting the numbers), Spotify is about 3 times the size, and that is only counting Spotify users that are paying for premium (236 million).
You can argue the reason Spotify has much bigger numbers is because it started years before Apple and made it popular, as well as having different pricing tiers
 
It's also the only subscription service that was created to sell hardware.

Which hardware?
They have Apple TV+ Apps everywhere


Screenshot 2025-03-20 at 12.16.31.png
 
I really liked For All Mankind because its Executive Producer, Ronald D. Moore, had produced from 2004 to 2009 the highly-acclaimed "reimagining" of Battlestar Galactica for the then-Sci-Fi Network. Yes, the shows on Apple TV+ are hit and miss but generally of pretty good quality.

It might lose US$1 billion per year but that's a drop in the bucket for a company as extremely cash-rich as Apple.
 
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You can argue the reason Spotify has much bigger numbers is because it started years before Apple and made it popular, as well as having different pricing tiers

Yeah they had first mover advantage for sure but its been ten years in the summer since Apple Music launched.

When Apple Music launched Spotify had 20 million paying premium subscribers, Spotify reported in December 2024 that that number is now 263 million. If we assume Apple has 90 million subs Spotify has had 270% of Apple Musics growth since launch. That is very telling.

Especially when you consider Apple has around 1.3 billion iPhone users meaning they have only signed up around 6.5% of iPhone users to AM (again based on 90M subs).
 
Good b-schools would never be so definitive. Yes, haircuts and oil changes typically don't mix but others often do! The key to adding new lines of business is determining if they have a 'value add' great enough to overcome the distraction/cost of starting it up. Streaming services are actually not a bad business for tech to go after... as they help sell devices and keep things 'online'.

I dunno. I went to Columbia. It is a pretty good business school. And yes, they would be so definitive for a couple of reasons. First, people who want to invest in an industry don’t want their investment diluted by company forays into other areas. They’ll invest in the other areas if they want or they will buy into a professionally managed fund. CEOs of computer companies are not good bets for running media companies. Sure there are exceptions. GE used to be one, but has since been split up. Amazon is probably the best current exception. Second, “value add” sounds a lot like “synergy”, which, quite frankly is BS people tell each other when the fundamentals don’t justify the investment.
 
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I think they should buy content that's already made, instead of spending millions in movies that not too many people watch.

I think it's cheaper ( correct me if I'm wrong) to buy this type of shows/movies and also helps expand their selection, than keep producing $200+ million dollar movies.
 
I LOVE Apple Fitness. I am surprised this hasn't caught on. It's been huge in my fitness journey, and I love the trainers they have for various programs.

One of my favorite features on News+ is the Audio tab. I just leaned about this feature and listen to it at work or in my car. Overall though, I don't use it often. I wish it had local news offerings for local weather, traffic issues etc. I find that I have to visit other sites to actually get news content I need.

I wish they had party games available for the Apple TV. Trivia and board games that would display on the TV and are made for the platform that users can play with a phone or remote.

For the Books one, I am also surprised they don't have a Books+ subscription with audio books as an option. Do they and I just missed it.
 
I think they should buy content that's already made, instead of spending millions in movies that not too many people watch.

I think it's cheaper ( correct me if I'm wrong) to buy this type of shows/movies and also helps expand their selection, than keep producing $200+ million dollar movies.
They could pull a Netflix and buy existing programs that were canceled like Sex Lives of College Girls as an example to bring in those viewers who love it already.
 
Yeah they had first mover advantage for sure but its been ten years in the summer since Apple Music launched.

When Apple Music launched Spotify had 20 million paying premium subscribers, Spotify reported in December 2024 that that number is now 263 million. If we assume Apple has 90 million subs Spotify has had 270% of Apple Musics growth since launch. That is very telling.

Especially when you consider Apple has around 1.3 billion iPhone users meaning they have only signed up around 6.5% of iPhone users to AM (again based on 90M subs).
Spotify is widely used and infused in culture. I have both AM and Spotify accounts, but prefer the UI of AM better. I think Apple would be wise to figure out a way to read Spotify users playlist and song recommendations when they share out the data. For example if I only had AM, and someone shares a song with me from Spotify, if Apple could read the songs from the playlist recommendation to then create and play them from AM it would make AM users less frustrated.

Similarly, I use Apple Maps as a default. I love the UI over google maps. I wish that if I were to click on a Google Map link it would be able to read the coordinates from the link and still open in Apple Maps.

I feel like many people just use whatever is most popular because it can be easier, but if Apple made it seamless and easier it could be adopted more.
 
It’d be nice if that were the reason. They might have more content for the Vision Pro. I’m pretty stoked by what the immersive shows they’ve produced. They are showing just how compelling high-quality 3D can be.

However, I don’t think that was the reason for Apple TV+. I think they were following a trend. It isn’t a business they should be in as they proved with “The Problem with Jon Stewart”.
If you're right, I can't believe that they ever thought that they would make any money.

In the media there's two main ways to burn money - owning a newspaper or making movies/TV.
 
The content on Apple TV plus is very hit or miss. For every decent show there are what seem like 5 shows that seem exactly alike to me. Something happens to someone and that person has to come to terms with it. Most of the shows honestly put me to sleep. The only decent recent show is slow horses. Severance had a great first season but season 2 is painfully bad. I stopped watching.
"Painfully bad?" Please, how melodramatic and utterly contrarian. It's received pretty much unanimous praise.
 
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I dropped ATV after the price hike. It was good when it was free with purchase of Apple products, it was fine for a couple bucks a month, but any more than that, no. Season three of For All Mankind went off the rails, and season two of Ted Lasso was such a disappointment after a fantastic first season. Season one of Silo was great but again season two off the rails at a snails pace.
Their biggest sin are the budgets of these shows. You can’t just burn that kind of money year after year without the ash eventually building up.
 
"Apple's initial business plan for ‌Apple TV‌+ predicted losses of between $15 billion and $20 billion over its first decade."

LOL.. Apple could absorb that in ONE quarter and STILL make 10B profit that quarter.
 
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I enjoy Apple Arcade but, as a stand alone service, it makes no sense and I would never pay for it. Same with news, fitness, Apple TV+… Really these services can only work as a bundle. But I tell you… if the bundle gets too expensive I will axe it. And so will others. I don’t know how Apple will reconcile that over the years.

It’s clear in any case that Apple’s focused on the wrong things, and that begins and ends with Tim Cook. VR was bad, services has been questionable, the iPad lineup is a mess, and Apple TV never became the all in one TV and Gaming device it should have. Don’t be surprised if we start seeing rumblings of Cook moving on in the near future…
 
Notice how pivotal iCloud+ is?

See why they screw everyone on base storage and component upgrade pricing?

Notice how they never bump the included iCloud storage (or add to it per new device purchased) so you have to pay for iCloud+?

Is it more clear now why they offer no paid iCloud storage options between 200GB & 2 TB!?

The iCloud+ "business" is largely a racket

People are getting screwed, by design
Exactly right. If I could buy 2TB and Apple Music only for the family and save money I would in a second. But I have to subsidize absolute BS AND have my price increased for it cause its not profitable.
 
Even though the market is big, it is hard to make a good profit in the entertainment industry. Many writers, even more stories, but few that get produced into a television series or film will be profitable. Especially with these relatively low fees of the worldwide streaming services.
 
I have no extra room in my wallet for any subscriptions services; AppleTV+ included. Even when my last remaining service comes up for renewal next week, Amazon Prime (video), it will be cancelled also. Read the room Tim.
 


Apple TV+ is hemorrhaging money amid a broader stall in Apple's services, according to a new report from The Information's Wayne Ma.

Apple-TV-Plus-Feature-2-Warm.jpg

The paywalled report reveals that Apple TV+ is the only Apple subscription service that is not profitable. While its subscriptions grew to around 45 million last year, it is still losing more than $1 billion annually. The company has spent more than $5 billion a year on content since the service launched in 2019, but this was reduced by $500 million in 2024 in response to a push for cutbacks from Apple CEO Tim Cook and other executives.

Cook apparently raised questions last year about several movie deals with Apple TV+ executives, including for the spy action-comedy film "Argylle." The movie stars Henry Cavill and Dua Lipa, and cost $200 million to produce. Cook reportedly complained that the movie had not found a significant audience or generated more subscribers for Apple TV+.

The report explains that "the audience for Apple TV+ remains relatively small," constituting less than 1% of total U.S. streaming service viewing. Netflix and Amazon represented 8.2% and 3.5% of total viewing in February.

Apple's initial business plan for Apple TV+ predicted losses of between $15 billion and $20 billion over its first decade. While major losses are normal in the streaming industry, it represents a major departure for Apple which normally exercises fiscal discipline.

Executives such as Eddy Cue initially shielded Apple TV+ executives from budget scrutiny and rejected a proposal to increase oversight of programming costs. Apple did not have internal data on whether Apple TV+ would tempt customers to buy Apple devices.

Despite successes such as "CODA" winning an Oscar for best picture, Cook began closely scrutinizing Apple TV+'s financial performance from 2022 and advocated more oversight. The use of private jet travel for stars at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars per flight came under particular scrutiny, and led Apple to ask executives to negotiate better deals with flight-chartering companies.

Apple's overall corporate profits are so significant that it can easily absorb the losses from its streaming service, but it continues to forgo widespread appeal.

Apple Music, Arcade, News+, and Fitness+

Services is Apple's fastest and most profitable category, with gross margins exceeding 75%, compared to just under 40% for hardware. In its most recent fiscal year, services revenue rose 13% to more than $96 billion. However, other than iCloud+, Apple's other services are said to be in poor health.

Apple Music's growth has reportedly virtually stopped and it remains "only marginally profitable." Since it pays artists and labels more than 70% of its revenues, it has a single-digit–percentage gross margin. Cue apparently told some colleagues privately that he doesn't believe the service will ever reach 100 million paying subscribers. Moreover, overall iTunes Store sales are now actively shrinking.

Apple News+, Fitness+ and Apple Arcade are said to be struggling with low usage and profits. Apple Arcade only had two million users during its first year of operation, with roughly 25% of them on free trials.

Similarly, Apple News+ purportedly suffers with low engagement and the number of monthly active users is in the low single-digit millions. Apple Books and Apple News+ was subject to layoffs in 2024 due to weak performance.

Longtime Apple services executive Peter Stern, who oversaw platforms including Apple TV+, abruptly departed the company in early 2023, claiming he was unable to run the streaming service in the way he needed to amid pressure to increase subscriber numbers. Apple subsequently reshuffled his former group, separating Apple TV+, Apple Music, and international content from News+, Fitness+, Apple Books, and iCloud+.

Apple One

The report adds that most users do not sign up directly for Apple's services, instead opting for an Apple One bundle, which inflates the perceived interest in each service. Many who sign up to Apple One are motivated to subscribe so primarily because of iCloud+ rather than other services. Without Apple One, Apple Arcade and Apple Fitness+ would not be profitable.

Article Link: Report: TV+ Losing $1 Billion Annually as Apple Services Falter
That’s because there is very little to watch, I burned through every thing worth watching in the free test period.
 
I agree with those who say the name "Apple TV+" in itself is problematic as it's too similar to the hardware product. Also Apple just doesn't have the large install base of old movie/tv show content to compete with the other services. There are a lot of people who prefer to just watch things they've already seen long ago over new, original content. They should've just bought another company who already had a media catalogue like Paramount and taken it from there. Building a large library of original content is a massive undertaking requiring high capital investment with low upside.

Personally I prefer watching Youtube over most streaming services these days. Occasionally I might subscribe to one for a month here or there if there's a specific show I want to watch.

As for News+ I ran the trial but decided against keeping it. I find that the News app pushes a large amount of News+ articles trying to get you to subscribe but you can often find those same stories with the google search for free. Also how are you going to charge for a subscription and still have ads?
 
Maybe someday the Apple board will say enough is enough, let’s get out of this losing endeavor. Maybe Tim will have to retire first? With that being said, I love For All Mankind, Silo and a few others.
 
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