Reports of Psystar's Demise Appear Premature

[powers74]

Two lawyers took a bite out of an Apple...

I am just don't understand how a company that barely sell few computers still fighting and paying a lot of money to lawyers. How in hell do these guys have so much money with not business at all?

There was speculation that the folks behind Psystar were linked to much larger companies... could be the likes HP or Dell, or possibly Microsoft, in order to damage Apple's business model.

Could be true.

These morons are STILL trying? Haha. Go ahead and waste all your money from those millions.. er, hundreds of computers you've sold.

It could be just the lawyers trying to make a name for themselves. Doing most of the legal work at little or no cost.

No it can't. It's amazing how many times this conspiracy idea is raised. The less evidence of it, the more people insist it's true.

These are all good points, but if there are a group of lawyers willing to do this for free... They've got to be out of their minds. How anyone can claim Apple has any kind of monopoly is beyond me. For there to be a monopoly they would have to be muscling their product into a market to unfairly gain market dominance, the exact opposite of what they are doing; limiting the use of their product to, get this, their product. There isn't even another corporate entity involved. Well other than the clowns making the claims. If these lawyers are doing this pro-bono they must be mad. That's all I can think. Trying to comprehend someone suing because a company is limiting their own software to their own hardware just makes my head hurt.

 

[gnasher729]

I am very glad its back up, I love the Mac OS, but seriously Apple products are simply overpriced.. Even the "Mac Mini's" are expensive and under spec'd.. If Psystar is still in the game then I think in the future Apple may consider making there systems cheaper.. If not then people would still be able to buy PC's and use OSX.. win-win for anyone looking to use Mac OSX..

If Psystar does any move related to MacOS X, you won't believe how quick they are back in court, and this time for contempt of a court injunction. I think that would have severe _personal_ consequences for those responsible.

 

[asrai]

Psystar won't die, like the true cockroach they are.

 

[arjaosx]

I am very glad its back up, I love the Mac OS, but seriously Apple products are simply overpriced.. Even the "Mac Mini's" are expensive and under spec'd.. If Psystar is still in the game then I think in the future Apple may consider making there systems cheaper.. If not then people would still be able to buy PC's and use OSX.. win-win for anyone looking to use Mac OSX..

I don't think Apple will want to sell low margin computers to below 800 numbers of people.

 

[Beric]

Just do it yourself. Psystar has done nothing but rip off all the work done by Hackintosh community.

Rebel EFI is just a modified version of the free and currently available Chameleon boot loader with pre-selected kext files. Nothing more. You could find all the necessary instructions and files in less than an hour by searching InsanelyMac.

Well, maybe I'll give it a try sometime then.

 

[Eric5h5]

I am very glad its back up, I love the Mac OS, but seriously Apple products are simply overpriced..

No they're not--they're correctly priced. Apple can make a reasonable profit off the hardware, which other companies can't do because the margins have been driven down too low by shortsightedness.

--Eric

 

[Winni]

No they're not--they're correctly priced. Apple can make a reasonable profit off the hardware, which other companies can't do because the margins have been driven down too low by shortsightedness.

--Eric

In other words: Apple still has "reasonable" margins only because their products are over-priced -- especially when you consider the fact that their stuff is produced in cheap labor factories in China.

It won't hurt you when you admit the fact that this designer hardware is expensive.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Something like Rebel EFI on my gaming PC would be pretty sweet. We'll see what happens.

EmpireEFI

In other words: Apple still has "reasonable" margins only because their products are over-priced -- especially when you consider the fact that their stuff is produced in cheap labor factories in China.

It won't hurt you when you admit the fact that this designer hardware is expensive.

No Apple isnt overpriced, IBM is.

 

[*LTD*]

We still on that "Macs are overpriced" nonsense? Record sales quarter-for quarter, people are lining up to buy "overpriced" Macs. And judging by the Mac-using demographic, these consumers aren't slack-jawed yokels.

Apple charges what they do because they've been able to achieve traction at those prices. Apple takes a value-based approach rather than a cost-based price approach. As long as enough consumers find value in Macs and are willing to pay, the price is just right. Part of it comes down to perceived value of goods.

 

[Winni]

Just do it yourself. Psystar has done nothing but rip off all the work done by Hackintosh community.

Rebel EFI is just a modified version of the free and currently available Chameleon boot loader with pre-selected kext files. Nothing more. You could find all the necessary instructions and files in less than an hour by searching InsanelyMac.

So what? Apple has ripped off the FreeBSD community to create the foundation of Mac OS X. Everything that makes Mac OS X a half-way decent Unix system has not been developed by Apple. Apple's development tools are also just rip-offs of the GNU development tools.

But you know what? Enabling people to launch businesses and to create jobs is one of the ideas behind Free Software. There's nothing wrong with that. If you have a problem with that, then don't release your work as free software. End of story.

Besides - the way I understand Rebel EFI is that you plug in the USB stick, then boot from the OS X DVD and this thing installs just as easy as it would install on Apple hardware. Chameleon is far away from that -- I've used it on a Dell XPS M1530 and it requires a lot of customization to get it working. Now if Rebel EFI makes that experience simple, they have all the right in the world to charge money for it. You know, just like Novell and Red Hat charge money for their versions of GNU/Linux. Or just like Apple charges money for their easy-to-use FreeBSD rip-off named Mac OS X.

Anyway. It's still ridiculous enough that an American court decided that Apple gets away with their EULA. If Sony got away with an EULA saying that Sony Pictures movies can only be watched on a Sony DVD player, and not on DVD players from Toshiba, Philips or anybody else, you folks would probably also find that totally okay and would applaud Sony and hate Toshiba for selling a DVD player that could playback Sony DVDs. And this whole Apple vs Psystar thing is NOTHING else -- it's only about Apple's EULA that tells you that you are not allowed to use a separately sold piece of software named Mac OS X on a compatible computer from a competitor.

It's completely insane and against common sense that you can apply a copyright law to enforce the most customer-hostile and anti-competitive end user license agreement currently in existence.

 

[chevyorange]

Anyway. It's still ridiculous enough that an American court decided that Apple gets away with their EULA. If Sony got away with an EULA saying that Sony Pictures movies can only be watched on a Sony DVD player, and not on DVD players from Toshiba, Philips or anybody else, you folks would probably also find that totally okay and would applaud Sony and hate Toshiba for selling a DVD player that could playback Sony DVDs. And this whole Apple vs Psystar thing is NOTHING else -- it's only about Apple's EULA that tells you that you are not allowed to use a separately sold piece of software named Mac OS X on a compatible computer from a competitor.
.

If Sony made good enough movies I’m sure they could get away with creating their own medium and selling it via that channel. It wouldn’t be illegal either.

 

[*LTD*]

So what? Apple has ripped off the FreeBSD community to create the foundation of Mac OS X. Everything that makes Mac OS X a half-way decent Unix system has not been developed by Apple. Apple's development tools are also just rip-offs of the GNU development tools.

But you know what? Enabling people to launch businesses and to create jobs is one of the ideas behind Free Software. There's nothing wrong with that. If you have a problem with that, then don't release your work as free software. End of story.

Besides - the way I understand Rebel EFI is that you plug in the USB stick, then boot from the OS X DVD and this thing installs just as easy as it would install on Apple hardware. Chameleon is far away from that -- I've used it on a Dell XPS M1530 and it requires a lot of customization to get it working. Now if Rebel EFI makes that experience simple, they have all the right in the world to charge money for it. You know, just like Novell and Red Hat charge money for their versions of GNU/Linux. Or just like Apple charges money for their easy-to-use FreeBSD rip-off named Mac OS X.

Anyway. It's still ridiculous enough that an American court decided that Apple gets away with their EULA. If Sony got away with an EULA saying that Sony Pictures movies can only be watched on a Sony DVD player, and not on DVD players from Toshiba, Philips or anybody else, you folks would probably also find that totally okay and would applaud Sony and hate Toshiba for selling a DVD player that could playback Sony DVDs. And this whole Apple vs Psystar thing is NOTHING else -- it's only about Apple's EULA that tells you that you are not allowed to use a separately sold piece of software named Mac OS X on a compatible computer from a competitor.

It's completely insane and against common sense that you can apply a copyright law to enforce the most customer-hostile and anti-competitive end user license agreement currently in existence.

Actually, it's because of Apple that FreeBSD got somewhere.

Since OS X's initial release in 2001, Apple's been percolating BSD code in and out of the OS X kernel/userland/libs. The code then makes its way right back in to FreeBSD.

By the time Panther was released, Apple's contributions back to FreeBSD had resulted in a FreeBSD milestone, which was 5.x. OS X 10.3 contained parts of FreeBSD 4.9 and 5.1. The things possible with FreeBSD today wouldn't have been possible without Apple.

For example, the VM/SMP code that OS X uses to run efficiently is the same that put FreeBSD on par with Linux.

Apple ensures a robust FreeBSD. A robust FreeBSD ensures a robust OS X. Apple actually puts back, and they have put back more than enough and continue to do so.

Customers dont seem to think Apple's EULAs are problematic. In fact, consumers are buying more Macs with these "hostile" EULAs than ever. The "customer-hostile and anti-competitive end user license agreement" is all in your head. And as for EULAs, they are not a joke. They exist for a reason, not just to protect "big companies", but the little guy trying to make a buck selling software, fonts, etc.

 

[Eric S.]

Just do it yourself. Psystar has done nothing but rip off all the work done by Hackintosh community.

Rebel EFI is just a modified version of the free and currently available Chameleon boot loader with pre-selected kext files. Nothing more. You could find all the necessary instructions and files in less than an hour by searching InsanelyMac.

Yeah, I'll have to go that route if Psystar disappears before I finish building my system. But hopefully Rebel EFI will be available for a little while longer.

 

[kingtj]

Except, it won't work like that ....

People keep saying Apple products are "overpriced", but the irony is, that's impossible. They're sold in a free marketplace, where price is dictated by the consumer. If Apple products really were overpriced, they wouldn't be able to sell them at the asking price, and would be forced to offer something more appealing, or lower prices on what they have.

In reality, the opposite has happened. Apple has increased their market share, and sales are apparently quite good for them.

Meanwhile, Psystar "staying in the game" at this point means very little, except they'll be providing yet another cheap PC clone for sale, plus a commercial way to buy a freeware package that allows tricking OS X into running on generic PC clone hardware. (And even THAT may or may not be around very long.) None of that is going to influence Apple to drop prices a bit!

(Just for the record though, I'm not saying you're totally wrong about the Mac Mini. I *do* think Apple would sell a lot more of them if they priced them lower. A lot of people ARE just comparing the hardware itself, with no regard to the OS, brand name, or warranty, and saying "I can buy or build something with better specs for that money." But obviously, Apple doesn't care. They're content to say "You pay THIS much for a Mini and no less, because we feel the OS X license you buy with it and the support of Apple as a company behind it justify the price." So far, enough people agree so they're selling enough to keep the product around.)

I am very glad its back up, I love the Mac OS, but seriously Apple products are simply overpriced.. Even the "Mac Mini's" are expensive and under spec'd.. If Psystar is still in the game then I think in the future Apple may consider making there systems cheaper.. If not then people would still be able to buy PC's and use OSX.. win-win for anyone looking to use Mac OSX..

 

[MacinTek]

redistribution of copyrights?

I am very glad its back up, I love the Mac OS, but seriously Apple products are simply overpriced.. Even the "Mac Mini's" are expensive and under spec'd.. If Psystar is still in the game then I think in the future Apple may consider making there systems cheaper.. If not then people would still be able to buy PC's and use OSX.. win-win for anyone looking to use Mac OSX..

First there was the Marxist redistribution of wealth... then there was Yamcha's redistribution of copyrights. All in the name of "fairness" to those too lazy, unethical or stupid to earn.

 

[charlituna]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Florida district court goes off on Pystar once they get to their almost identical (to the California) case down there.

The Injunction isn't from state court, it's Federal. Which means that it basically ends the Florida case. this is part of why Apple wanted it to clearly say 'current and future versions of Mac OS X and similarly functioning software'. that way even if they get to version 20.20 or start calling it something other than just Mac OS, Psystar can't say it's something new and start this again.

As for Rebel EFI etc, if Psystar sells or gives it away or sells another HackMac they are in contempt for which they can go to jail. If they are that stupid, I hope they melt the keys down. The company can keep selling other systems so they might not close their doors.

Although my roommate thinks they are just crazy enough to try to apply for Authorized Reseller and Service status.

 

[NXTMIKE]

Well it's nice to see someone who challenges Apple first hand....

...And doesn't suck up to them so easily.

 

[arkmannj]

You know, I don't understand why they didn't just make decent PC's that can have their boot-loader preloaded that helps multi-boot Windows, Linux, and various versions of Unix, including Darwin.

Then it would atleast be a 1/2 honest business, and I'm sure a few folks out there itching to make a hackintosh (We'll assume it's just for the fun of a technical achievement not to actually use.) would figure out how to get it working.

 

[A grain of salt]

Swollen, I would say.

LOL - fair play, they've got balls the size of footballs!

That's only because Apple has kicked them there so many times.

 

[grahamwright1]

So what? Apple has ripped off the FreeBSD community to create the foundation of Mac OS X. Everything that makes Mac OS X a half-way decent Unix system has not been developed by Apple. Apple's development tools are also just rip-offs of the GNU development tools.

Anyway. It's still ridiculous enough that an American court decided that Apple gets away with their EULA. If Sony got away with an EULA saying that Sony Pictures movies can only be watched on a Sony DVD player, and not on DVD players from Toshiba, Philips or anybody else, you folks would probably also find that totally okay and would applaud Sony and hate Toshiba for selling a DVD player that could playback Sony DVDs. And this whole Apple vs Psystar thing is NOTHING else -- it's only about Apple's EULA that tells you that you are not allowed to use a separately sold piece of software named Mac OS X on a compatible computer from a competitor.
.

Maybe because Sony et all joined an industry trade association to produce and sell interoperable products (DVD's) while Apple continues to develop OSX for their own hardware. The fact that Apple hardware has components common to other low cost mass-market manufacturers is irrelevant and should not give anyone a sense of entitlement that OSX should run correctly on their non-Apple provided hardware.

As for ripping off FreeBSD, I don't think so. Check the number of derivatives of the original Berkley code out there - it's encouraged, not discouraged.

 

[str1f3]

I am very glad its back up, I love the Mac OS, but seriously Apple products are simply overpriced.. Even the "Mac Mini's" are expensive and under spec'd.. If Psystar is still in the game then I think in the future Apple may consider making there systems cheaper.. If not then people would still be able to buy PC's and use OSX.. win-win for anyone looking to use Mac OSX..

Here's the thing. If you think that Apple products are overpriced (which I don't) either don't buy them or build a Hackintosh. The fact that this company sells this knowing full well they won't win in court bothers me. This company will shut down sooner or later at great angstto their customers. Apple has never gone after the Hackintosh community. If you want to have OSX w/o a Mac, build it.

 

[dumb terminal]

Fox news is about the only news network that attempts to give both sides of a question.

Dear god, I hope you're being facetious.

 

[DesignerOnMac]

Didn't Al Gore ask you to sell him some of your carbon credits so that he could fly his high carbon producing jet to all of these questionable meetings?

Fox news is about the only news network that attempts to give both sides of a question. The other networks seem to have only one thing to say. Watch, listen or read one day & you're like a soap opera, ready for a year or two.

Psystar could even have been done by Apple to use it as a way to try to put a slow down if not a curb to the hackintosh community, No one has thrown that possibility out. Apple does have to keep their large legal department busy.

I am a 25+ year Mac User & have never purchased a MS/DOS or Windows computer other than my 1st Gen Intel Mac Pro.

"Fox news is about the only news network that attempts to give both sides of a question. " Funniest line I have read on here in weeks!

 

[*LTD*]

"Fox news is about the only news network that attempts to give both sides of a question. " Funniest line I have read on here in weeks!

FOX?? Bigot and racist central.

 

[gnasher729]

Anyway. It's still ridiculous enough that an American court decided that Apple gets away with their EULA. If Sony got away with an EULA saying that Sony Pictures movies can only be watched on a Sony DVD player, and not on DVD players from Toshiba, Philips or anybody else, you folks would probably also find that totally okay and would applaud Sony and hate Toshiba for selling a DVD player that could playback Sony DVDs. And this whole Apple vs Psystar thing is NOTHING else ...

Strawman. The economics of movies and operating systems is different. Count how often people switch from one operating system to another, and how often they switch from one movie to another (typical numbers: Once ever ten years for operating systems, twenty times an hour for the typical zero concentration span remote control addicted TV viewer). As a result, what is a good strategy for Apple in one market would be an idiotic strategy for Sony in a different market. And people's reaction to a strategy that is both legal and reasonable is very different from the reaction to a strategy that is both legal and idiotic.

If the economics of film making was different to the point that a typical film studio created as many movies as the typical operating system company creates operating systems (like Apple: Two operating systems in 25 years (MacOS Classic and MacOS X). Microsoft: Two operating systems (DOS and Windows)). So Sony's old movie released in 1995 doesn't play on DVD at all, only on Sony Beta. And their new movie requires a DVD player. Your choice whether you buy the Sony movie or the Hollywood movie (there would be only one Hollywood movie, and one more movie made by some talented amateurs). In this situation it would be absolutely fine for Sony to restrict their movie to Sony DVD players as a way to increase DVD player sales. Toshiba can make their own movie if they want.