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Reseller Shortages Hint at Forthcoming Update for 15-Inch MacBook Pro
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Some of us need to use our MacBook Pros outside. Photographers, scientists working in the field, sports trainers and managers, etc. A glossy mirror for a screen is a non-starter for me.
Can't wait!
I have been needing a 15" model since my old desk top has started to become obselete. I was about to buy a current 15" model with all it's bulk until I heard that Apple was re-designing the pro line in a thinner form factor, which is great. No more bulky 15" for me. Anything that will make it lighter, I hope, and less bulky is just the ticket for me. I need a notebook pro with lots of power without the bulk to carry around with me. HURRY UP WITH THE RELEASE SO I CAN GET ONE!
Old Fart Hunk
I have been needing a 15" model since my old desk top has started to become obselete. I was about to buy a current 15" model with all it's bulk until I heard that Apple was re-designing the pro line in a thinner form factor, which is great. No more bulky 15" for me. Anything that will make it lighter, I hope, and less bulky is just the ticket for me. I need a notebook pro with lots of power without the bulk to carry around with me. HURRY UP WITH THE RELEASE SO I CAN GET ONE!
Old Fart Hunk
The current generation is far from "bulky." Find another vendor that has a non-ultrabook class notebook that is less "bulky" and has the same capabilities. Vaio Z doesn't count because the discrete GPU is an external box.
The point is they could be better. And they're not far away.
I think the new design will leave the old looking more 'brick' than what you can see now.
Well, if you think about it, given that a machine costs the same two days into its cycle as it does two days before its cycle is over, you get more time out of the machine the earlier you buy it, and given that once a machine is no longer the current generation, it starts the 4-6 year process of becoming obsolete in terms of being able to run what you want on it.
I agree. I bought a Mini back in January of this year as an impulse buy so I'm getting by with that for now.
I reckon the 15" could be updated on the 24th of April but nothing is confirmed.
Not sure how much more they can shave off the "brick" unless they remove all the ports. The little sliver on the bottom is for the glorious 7 hour battery and I wouldn't want them to reduce battery life so I can get a 1 mm thinner notebook.
Not trying to sound sarcastic, but how can they be better?
I personally prefer no anti-glare coating - text doesn't look as sharp and color gamut is reduced. Glossy has annoyances, but it allows a bit more accuracy...
Until they make iOS development easy for Windows users... (it's still Mac-only as I recall...0
In other news.............
Absolutely no hints in the reseller chain(or anywhere else) about the Mac Pro, which continues to languish.
The last I'd read, more laptops are sold than desktops, but given how little the Mac Pro is refreshed to begin with, that doesn't help matters... unless the 2010 model didn't sell well at all... but I prefer a full video card as opposed to iMac's integrated mobile/notebook-level card, never mind being able to add in my own hard drives and extra storage...
Not being by a window helps... an anti-glare coating still has reflections; they're just subdued and at a cost of - as said - color and sharpness. It's why I chose the ACD over the Dell U2711 (never mind the extreme AG issues people have complained about and the number of people having problems with lines going through the display, its wider gamut (10-bit) has to emulate standard gamuts, leading to more color inaccuracy as well during 8-bit to 10-bit translation and vice-versa, as someone said in an Anandtech discussion forum... CCFL is better for brighter color accuracy (it covers an extra 10% of Adobe RGB than LED) but the downsides to it are too much... )
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Hopefully they will sell the optical drive as an external unit in the box, or not sell it (but not lower the price, let's be honest) and have people buy external ones...
The other issue is heat. Ivy Bridge doesn't run much cooler compared to Sandy Bridge, and the 2011 models - as do all SB models - produce a lot of heat.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...s_constrained_ahead_of_redesigned_models.html
Way too thin; cooling is bound to be a problem... especially if dedicated GPUs are to be used. And they can come in handy...
(made out of that "living metal" stuff from that company Apple bought last year or whenever, I'd guess... http://www.cultofmac.com/75486/apple-is-granted-its-first-liquidmetal-patent-exclusive/ Interestingly, Apple worked with the maker of this "liquid metal" before getting the patent... "hard work pays off" - at least for those who own the patents and not those who do the actual work...)
And, per the article, I suspect Mac Pro will be phased out.
All things considered, even though I prefer storage expandability in the Mac Pro, the iMac has its advantages too... I wonder how the Mac Pro market will feel, and how they react (e.g. migrating to another platform )
That's a bit of a myth, the text is as sharp as my mate's glossy 17", and as far as color gamut goes, I certainly don't notice a large difference between either aside from the blacks on his being slightly deeper, but the whites on mine are whiter; so its sort of six and a half a dozen.
Primarily the MBP can get (a lot) better by dropping the ODD and using the empty space to include some other goodies.
BY switching a couple of the ports to the other side a new body shape can be achieved without sacrificing the battery.
I can also see Apple dropping firewire and ethernet ports, although I'm not sure that would constitute an improvement at this stage. Possibly with USB3 to enter I could get over this, especially if, (and I'm guessing here), USB3/ethernet adapters were much faster than their older counterparts.
The fact of the matter is that they can't be made all that much thinner without sacrificing power AND battery. People on here seem to be devoutly convinced that the optical drive is the one thing keeping this from happening when it really isn't large or thick enough to be preventing such a radical improvement. If the MacBook Pros were to be made the thickness of the optical drive thinner, they would lose the ability to have a discrete GPU and a quad-core mobile CPU. We'd basically have 15" and 17" versions of the 13" MacBook Pro, which would almost defeat the point of those machines to begin with. Similarly, while the argument has been brought up that the optical drive cavity could hold greater improvements, the fact of the matter is that it can't. It's not large enough to give Apple room to put a discrete GPU on the 13" MacBook Pro because the machine is still too thin (this is why the 12" PowerBook G4 with its discrete GPU was always thicker than the 15" and 17" models). So, in short, I agree with you. Making it thinner because the people on this site really just want a 15" Air is stupid. Period.
Primarily the MBP can get (a lot) better by dropping the ODD and using the empty space to include some other goodies.
No, it can't. Have you ever taken a MacBook Pro apart? The ODD doesn't take up all that much space when you really look at it. You're still not going to get a discrete GPU on the 13" Pro if you remove the ODD, and you're not going to get ports out on that side because the main logic board is so small. Why is it so small, you ask? To accomodate for the decrease in thickness between the last design and this one. Also, note that the fans are thicker than the optical drive. Also, note that the speakers (on the 13" model) rest on the optical drive, so it's not like Apple is only devoting that space to the ODD and not to something like a better processor or a discrete GPU because those wouldn't be possible even if they removed the drive. Check your facts before you say silly things like "using the empty space to include some other goodies".
BY switching a couple of the ports to the other side a new body shape can be achieved without sacrificing the battery.
How do you figure this? Again, have you ever taken apart one of these things as they currently are?
I can also see Apple dropping firewire and ethernet ports, although I'm not sure that would constitute an improvement at this stage. Possibly with USB3 to enter I could get over this, especially if, (and I'm guessing here), USB3/ethernet adapters were much faster than their older counterparts.
Apple will not drop Gigabit Ethernet. They might drop FireWire 800, but I get the feeling that they'll wait a while longer so that people wishing to make use of Target Disk mode have some overlap so that by the time models without FireWire come out, it'll be extremely unlikely that those upgrading from an old Mac won't have Thunderbolt in that older Mac. Otherwise, you have a bit of a problem when someone wishing to migrate from a 2010 MacBook Pro to a 2012 or 2013 MacBook Pro can't because the port is gone, and that's just stupid, even for Apple.
Actually the 13" and 15" MBPs are all 0.95 inch (2.41 cm)...
Actually, yes I have taken it apart. My 13" has an SSD + HDD in an OWC Data Doubler. My 13" has 'extra goodies', because I have taken the ODD out...
Again, yes I have taken one apart. And yes, the ODD takes up a HUGE amount of space proportionally to the rest of the area. Take a look for yourself; I'd say it'd be getting close to 1/4 of the total area. That's a lot in my book.
Cheers
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Yet when that's done in software and called anti-aliasing, it's widely touted.
Gamut != accuracy.
Macs have always had windowing interfaces.... because you "know" that you "need" that, right?
Yes, but notice that the 13" has a smaller main logic board than the 15". Also notice that the 12" PowerBook G4 is thicker than (a) the 15" PowerBook G4, (b) any 15" MacBook Pro, and (c) the 13" MacBook Pro; and that was the last time Apple had a discrete GPU in a sub-15" laptop. If you want one in a 13" MacBook Pro, removing the optical drive won't do it for you; making the machine thicker, on the other hand, will.
Aside from a dual-drive set-up, which Apple clearly doesn't believe most consumers (and mind you the 13" MacBook Pro is a consumer machine) care about, there's not much that could be done with that left-over space anyway. There's not enough room for a discrete GPU and the required extra cooling. There's not enough room to do much to the battery while preserving the same features present on the current 13" MacBook Pro's logic board. I know you like focusing on the two-dimensional features of the optical drive, but the fact of the matter is that there's nothing you could put in that cavity (aside from another drive) that would take enough advantage of that space to warrant getting rid of it to begin with and not require much more vertical space for cooling in the process. Hate to burst your anti-ODD bubble, but that's the facts.
I've gutted and reassembled more 13" MacBook Pros than you ever will, not to make it a pissing contest, but I'd like to assert that I at least know what I'm talking about. That being said, again, the optical drive takes up a lot of space two-dimensionally, but not three-dimensionally; which is to say, it's pretty freakin' thin. If you were to put a discrete GPU in its place, you'd need thicker fans and a thicker thermal envelope (as mind you, they get plenty hot as it stands, certainly much more than the optical drive takes up. If you want quad-core CPUs, same thing. If you want more battery power, don't expect much as the cubic area of the optical drive isn't as much as its surface area would lead you to believe; it's freakin' thin. So, again, unless you're specifically after a dual-drive set-up, which mind you, only power users really give a crap about, then yes, you could remove the optical drive and get your "extra goodies". Though your variety of "extra goodies" is more limited than you'd give credit for. Certainly an extra SSD drive to you is no less a goodie than an ODD for someone that regularly uses it. (Again, mind you, both are just as much of a minority as one another.)
Riiigggghhht... So by looking at tech from 2003 you can accurately judge what's possible in 2012...
For someone who claims to have looked inside sooooo many MBPs you seem rather blind to the facts and have little or no imagination.
15" MBPs do have a bigger logic board, yes, but they are not thicker than the 13" models. The way they have a discrete GPU with necessary cooling is by achieving greater HORIZONTAL separation from the cpu. The accompanying fan for cooling can be larger, but need not be taller.
Your argument that a 12" PowerBook from 2003 was 2mm taller than the 15" is completely irrelevant.
YM "Sorry Mr Jobs that's not possible"
SJ "GET OUT!!" "Who hired that guy?! - because he's fired too!!"
And this where you display little or no imagination. The problem you're having is looking at this too statically; you're holding everything else as in it's constant form.
A complete redesign of the whole space including possible logic board increase, removal of HDD (for blades..?) and a new battery shape offers a world of possibilities.
Give a real Apple engineer approx 40% more room to work with and I can guarantee you that they'll come up with some thing more than, "Sorry, I'm not clever enough to find better use for all that room, so how about we just leave that obsolete 1990's turd in there?"
But you just did.
This "My d*** is bigger than yours" argument holds no credence whatsoever in an online forum; zip your pants up buddy because nobody cares.
And for the record, IF, (and that's a HUGE IF), they could only come up with a second HDD/SSD as the option then that would still be worth the price of omission. By a long stretch.
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Riiigggghhht... So by looking at tech from 2003 you can accurately judge what's possible in 2012...
For someone who claims to have looked inside sooooo many MBPs you seem rather blind to the facts and have little or no imagination.
You have clearly not done this sort of thing for a living as I have. Otherwise, you'd quickly realize that I'm not blind to any facts.
As for imagination, computers are not an artistic field for imagination. Apple does a great job of presenting them that way, but there's no room for imagination here, otherwise we'd be talking about the 15" MacBook Air with dual hexa-core Xeons, discrete GPU, two SSDs with a hard drive and the built-in optical drive complete with every port one could ever need on a Mac and weighing even lighter than the current MacBook Airs. Alas, we're not and we never will.
Also, fact-checking, the 12" PowerBook G4 stopped production in 2006. Still six years ago, but not the nine that you're asserting, given that the GPU used in the final rev of 12" PowerBook G4 wasn't what was used in the first.
How do you figure this? Taller is exactly what is needed when the 13" machines are already bordering on too small for their current thermal envelope (mind you the optical drive does little to change this as it's mostly empty space itself without a disc inside).
Then how else do you accommodate for the 12" PowerBook being easily twice the size of current slot-load optical drives thicker in order to accomodate a discrete GPU? Hint: Since you clearly don't know the answer and are deflecting the question, this is where your imagination might come in handy.
Right, because Steve Jobs and Tim Cook thereafter clearly see the value of dual-drive Macs, hence why Mac OS X, even at 10.7.3 doesn't provide easy means of storing your data on the hard drive and your OS and apps on the SSD out of the box via an assistant, hence why dual-drive Macs are only CTO orders for the desktops. Gee, you ever get the idea that Apple just doesn't care about your desire for a dual-drive Mac? 'Cause I sure do.
The optical drive doesn't take up as much cubic room as you seem to think it does. But that argument is clearly lost on you. Even if you redesigned the shape of the board, you still wouldn't have space for anything useful. Fine, you want to remove the hard drive too in favor of bladeSSDs, you still don't have enough of a thermal envelope to support a quad-core CPU or a discrete GPU. Feel free to do the research, present me with the heating demands of the 15" and prove to me that by removing those parts, it's possible. I'm open to it, but I'm skeptical, and no, not because I lack imagination, but because you lack practicality and experience.
It's not a freakin' floppy drive. A real Apple engineer will take out features that more people find useful and as a result will tell you and your quest for "extra goodies" to piss off because his higher-ups deem that a majority of MacBook Pro customers actually find those features useful. He'll direct you to the 15" MacBook Pro which has the best of all worlds or to the MacBook Air which has the minimalism and the lack of technologies that are too old for you.
I don't know, I find proving that you're behaving like an inexperienced, immature little kid that doesn't know what he's talking about is actually a fun little exercise. I don't need anyone else to care, you clearly do and I'm having plenty of fun with it. Keep it coming, junior.
Again, Apple has shown that it doesn't care about dual-drive set-ups on their laptops. You won't get one on a MacBook Air and you won't get one on a MacBook Pro because you and others like you who think the ODD is keeping you from your precious "extra goodies" are in the minority, case in point, it hasn't happened yet, when there's no reason for them to necessarily hold out on it. Safe to say it won't happen. Look on the bright side, it's cooler to be in the minority.
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What did you say about not turning this into a pissing match..? You're just sounding insecure by coming across so desperate to prove your credibility. 'Experts' don't feel threatened like you do now. Says everything really.
Imagination = creativity in this sense. Apologies for a poor choice of words in this context. Apple has proved very adept at using space creatively, look no further than the mini, (dual drive, ODD-less...).
The basic dimensions did not change: 4.6 lbs., 1.18" H x 10.9" W x 8.6" D
Have a read; new solutions are already being developed, (not that Apple will use this one, but proves that it is possible):
http://www.moorinsightsstrategy.com...rabook-discrete-graphics-problem-with-kepler/
How NVIDIA’s Kepler-based GPU fits in an Ultrabook
As I said earlier, when I saw the Ultrabook specification, I thought it would be very difficult to get decent discrete graphics into an Ultrabook. My concerns were around power draw to achieve minimum battery requirements and chassis height in 13 and 14″ form factors to include a proper cooling solution.
Between NVIDIA and their OEMs, many different factors played into enabling this capability:
NVIDIA Kepler architecture is twice as efficient as the prior SM architecture. The inverse of this is that at half the power, you can provide the same performance. For instance, the GT 640M reportedly provides the same performance as the previous GTX 460M enthusiast class GPU, at around half the power consumption.
NVIDIA Optimus technology automatically shifts between the lower power/performance of the Intel HD graphics and the higher power/performance NVIDIA discrete graphics. When the user is doing email, the Intel graphics are operating and the GeForce GPU is consuming zero power. When the consumer is playing Battlefield 3, Optimus automatically turns on GeForce GPU to provide the best possible performance.
New and better power management allows GeForce GPUs to maximize performance by intelligently utilizing the full potential of the notebook’s power and thermal budget. For example, if the notebook’s heat sink assembly has spare thermal headroom, the GeForce GPU can dynamically increase frequency to provide the best possible performance without adversely effecting operating temperature or stability.
I was correct earlier in that this was very challenging and between NVIDIA and its OEMs. It’s clear they stepped up and made it happen.
Keep comparisons from EOLd tech, really convincing stuff...
It's really only iPhoto and iTunes for Joe Average that eats up a lot of space. Moving the library to another disk - hold the option key on opening for the first time; not a big deal...
You might have said the same about the Mac mini before last years remodel. Apple cares a lot about getting people to work through the digital distribution platform that they own; they're going to push out ODDs in increasingly more models, incl. the MBP. It's not necessarily a bad thing though; this does provide an opportunity, but you just can't see it.
Try doing some reading yourself, might help. Reality is the thermal demands are dropping and will continue to do so. Extra space is extra space, and it will be used better than it is now.
What was Henry Ford's quote that Steve liked so much... "Faster horses..?"
You've only proved your arrogance and poor social skills. Congratulations, your mum must be proud.
Ok. we'll see. Until Apple brings something new out we won't know for sure. But evidence suggests to me ODDs are on their way out.Again, Apple has shown that it doesn't care about dual-drive set-ups on their laptops. You won't get one on a MacBook Air and you won't get one on a MacBook Pro because you and others like you who think the ODD is keeping you from your precious "extra goodies" are in the minority, case in point, it hasn't happened yet, when there's no reason for them to necessarily hold out on it. Safe to say it won't happen. Look on the bright side, it's cooler to be in the minority.
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I feel threatened? By the likes of you? This is news to me. I'm having fun, as I always do with people like you, poking holes in your unrealistic visions for the future of the MacBook Pro line. I just as soon figured that without showing off my ACMT and years of experience with the hardware, you could make the exact same pissing contest argument at me. Instead you're insulting my "lack of imagination" or "lack of creativity", which is a much more amusing argument to make.
The Mac mini Server has always been dual-drive and ODD-less. Not that much of a stretch for them to swap one drive for the other as you clearly have in your own machine. That said, with a drive-swap, your heating requirements don't change anywhere near as much as they do when going from ODD (something that doesn't generate all that much heat) to a discrete GPU or a Quad-core CPU (both of which generate a ton of heat). The space needed to dissipate that heat is greater than the optical drive cavity will allow. Either agree to disagree with me on this or provide me with facts that disprove this, otherwise, I'll just keep on matching your immaturity with similarly useless banter.
Then your point about it being 2003 technology is moot and irrelevant when it is just as much 2006 technology. This would also further explain why the first MacBooks were thinner and lacking in a discrete GPU, or do you have facts to disprove this that you'd like to share?
Great, so an Ultramobile discrete GPU will finally exist, but it will still be slower than the contemporary mobile discrete GPU when it finally sees the light of day. Fantastic stuff. Really makes me want to thin down my machine. Oh wait, no it doesn't!
Fair enough, let's assume my comparisons from EOLd tech mean nothing. That would mean that, by your logic, Apple switched to using IGPs on the MacBooks and the 13" MacBook Pros (as well as the Mac minis) because magically the evil optical disc drive, guilty of halting the future of computer advancement suddenly became an obstacle in pumping out discrete graphics solutions and that Apple must now become creative with space and remove the optical drive because magically it is to blame for the lack of discrete graphics and not the fact that the machines have been slimming down. Golly, you're so logical, why didn't I think that. You're right, the evil optical drive must go! Our Macs must advance! (Get real!)
The average Joe is fine with one single internal storage drive. Also, it isn't unfair to assume that if one demands two internal drives, that iTunes and iPhoto libraries aren't the only thing needing to be put on the hard drive. Large documents folders are also an issue. Best of luck relocating all of that without hopping on the terminal. Also best of luck explaining all of that to someone who is not computer savy.
No, the Mac mini doesn't have dual-drives by default unless it's the Server model, but the Server model has had that option for almost three years now, so that's no new news. For the other models, it's a CTO option and is not standard (READ: Most customers won't be buying it.). Apple has removed the optical on the Mac mini because it can; Mac minis are typically owned by low-end customers that don't need it for what they're doing. This isn't true of machines like the iMac, MacBook Pro or Mac Pro, all oof which are used in much more consistently demanding environments where every connection, interface, and drive type is used by a decent portion of those customers. Case in point, Apple removed the optical drive from the Mac mini in Mid 2011, but not the MacBook Pro in Late 2011. Care to explain that?
Ivy Bridge doesn't decrease thermal requirements by that much from Sandy Bridge. That much reading, I've definitely done, though you clearly haven't. Bummer because Sandy Bridge runs fairly hot as is in the current enclosure. Similarly, the current discrete GPUs aren't running drastically cooler, nor does it seem like they will by the time this next MacBook Pro refresh comes out. So, yeah, they are dropping, no they are not dropping anywhere near that drastically. Nice idea though, I'll give you that.
Nice idea. Not practically applicable. Is usually applied more toward brand new products rather than refreshes of old ones. Also note that Apple has been known to give into customer complaint. Case-in-point the third generation iPod shuffle.
Wasn't it you who said that no one cares? Isn't my mum inclusive in that? Or are you already eating those words to get a cheap jab in there. Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids.
They are currently being relegated to the higher-end machines as the lower-end folk don't care, in the case of the Mac mini, and it was never in the cards for the MacBook Air anyway. Eventually (like a decade down the line) you won't see optical media used at all; either that or you'll see optical media that puts BluRay to shame or some similar high-capacity portable storage device. In the meantime, an ODD-less Mac line-up isn't ready for prime-time as consumers aren't the only people out there using Macs. This is why you didn't see it on the last MacBook Pro refresh. It's why you won't see it on the next one either.
Yep, although insecure is probably more accurate.
But now you can have both dual drives and discrete graphics. And in time, quad cpu too, (although, granted, not yet).
My point is proven. Discrete GPUs (which will only get better and cooler) are available in this 'thin' form factor notebook now. Where are your arguments now that it's not possible..? Just changing your argument like that, eh?
Additionally, many pro apps need discrete graphics, but they don't have to be gaming machines.
Using Terminal for saving documents to a new location..? Bet you shoot holes to open cans of coke too...
The mini got a redesign. MBPs are next in line.
Your mum has to care. Nobody else does.
Let's talk when the new models come out.
'Till then...
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