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It's pretty obvious from the rMBP that Apple's whole laptop product line is going to go that direction. Namely, just like the iPhone, Apple doesn't want anyone opening their products. People do it anyway, but it takes a very much higher level of expertise. Apple makes more money.

Faced with having their future laptop product line fail EPEAT, Apple engineered this whole controversy to force more flexibility out of EPEAT. You could call it blackmail or brinkmanship, whatever, it was very effective.
 
Batteries are consumable. They need to be replaced eventually. They contain toxic chemicals and need special handling for recycling.

Actually, I've been thinking about it, and this bit of your post finally made it click for me. Modern batteries DO require special handling for recycling. Putting them in an easily removable place might actually *reduce* the odds that they actually get recycled.

Scenario:
Your laptop still meets your needs, but the battery is getting a bit long in the tooth. You hit eBay or amazon and get an after market battery to replace it (typically saving about $30). You pop the old one out, and slide in the new one. I'd be willing to bet that *most* people at that point simply toss the old battery into the garbage and move on.

If you have to take it to someone to get the battery replaced, the odds improve that that 'someone' is aware that they shouldn't simply toss the battery into the trash, and will actually send it somewhere to be recycled properly.

Just my two cents.
 
So basically, this is sort of like paying protection money to some criminal so that he/they will allow you to stay in business. I realize that my opinion might offend some of you and that is not my intention. But I have to say that in just about everything that has to do with environmental regulations and being allowed to have your products labeled as being "Green" it seems like a complete and total pile of horse hockey to me. I can understand people not wanting products to hurt the environment and/or to harm their children. But it seems as though it always ends up being abused and abusing others and it eventually gets taken over by some fanatic or fanatics. These people should not have this kind of power over others. Were they elected? Who do they have to answer to? Who died and made them God?
 
One of EPEAT's standard is disassembly with common tools, right? The battery needs to be separated from the case to be recycled, right?

Has anyone tried pulling, with one's fingers, the battery from the case? It may simply peel off. Fingers are a pretty common tool.

If the glue doesn't make the aluminum harder to recycle, and the glue doesn't affect the recycling of the battery, then the GLUE has nothing to do with the rMPB's recyclability.

Everyone is assuming it will, but we do not know that.

The glue is there to prevent the battery from flopping around. It doesn't need to be super-strong, permanent, holds like steel glue. It's probably hot glue, which everyone knows doesn't really stick for ****. That stuff just peels off just about anything.

iFixit did not try to remove the battery from the base. It may damage the battery, but that doesn't mean the battery can't be recycled.

Now the display... that's a different story. Not sure what kind of disassembly would be required to recycle it properly.
 
So what

"prohibit the use of glue to attach the battery to the casing"

Boring. So what. I'm looking for better products. Just because EPEAT has backwards, antiquated standards means diddly-squat. I want real world rugged equipment. When I buy a machine I anticipate getting ten to fifteen years of use out of it. First I'll use it, then I'll pass it on to another family member, they'll pass it to another, etc. Apple Macintosh and iOS equipment lasts a long time. This matters far more than EPEAT's nonsense standards.

Use, Reuse, Recycle. Get it? Recycling is the LAST option on the list. It is far better to use and reuse.

As to government purchases, bah, humbug. Government purchases very few Macs. The US Post Office actually states on their web site that they do not support the Mac even for citizen users. Apple's not going to lose much in the way of sales by dissing EPEAT. Instead they'll gain far more sales by producing better quality products. Notice how the rest of the computer industry is flatlining while Apple is growing. Why? Innovation and quality.

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Makes sense to me. No upgradability, means it gets tossed as soon as better performance is needed.

Wow, you must be too rich and wasteful to boot.

When the rMBP is no longer what you want then:

1) Pass it along in your family or friends. Someone will love to have it.

2) Sell it. It will still be worth a lot of money and that will help pay for your next toy.

Oh, wait, you're rich and wasteful so you'll just throw it away because you have money to burn.
 
In the US, any kind/brand of adhesive or glue (and pretty much everything) is lab tested and somewhat confirms to safety regulations to protect the "dumb U.S. consumer."

Offshore manufacturing in other countries, (China for example) does not bow down or always follow U.S. regulations. Melamine content in exported food, contaminated big box store drywall are only but a few documented examples.

The old, coined expression "I got Shanghai'ed" was actually based on a lot of truth. They really don't care a whole lot for us, except for the dollars.
 
Who other than Apple takes back your device and disposes of it safely?

That was my biggest thought. They also give you money. I have old HP's and other old devices that I can't get rid of so how are they as highly rated with EPEAT. The local land fill won't accept them, the state facility that had dates that you could drop them off is down to twice a year. People are starting to dump them in the woods, side of the road etc. That is not safe at any level. I know when I turned our last Mac in and got an Apple store credit, that was great! I had read the ratings of their items when they quit EPEAS and I could be wrong but it looked to me as if it was the Macbook Air NOT the MBPR which had the high Energy Star Rating etc. if you have it repaired or send it back to be disposed of/recycled properly, that's better than any alternative we have available to us. If someone know if these other companies, HP etc are taking back their computers and devices to recycle please post. I'm tired of saying I have a new MBPR with all of the ruckus people raised about it, and I absolutely adore it. With the 3 year total warranty that will probably be all I need if anything does go wrong, and that's about as often as we upgrade our devices anyway. I have had enough years of tinkering with Windows PC's hardware well as software and with our Macs, Apple devices, it's such a nice change after 15+ years of Windows stuff, to use our devices and love using them. We are very happy with 7 in our home. I do think the EPEAT system DOES need to be upgraded or other products noted such as the the Samsung and Galaxy Nexus I believe? there was a whole list of them that do not have removable batteries and more. And what about all of the plastic? I wish they'd update the lists and there standards honestly.
I worked doing electronics assembly and products for years using epoxy resins, glues that are the Pro version of Super Glue, and they do have ways to release the part, and the grip of the glue for example. The worst part was the styrofoam, drilling it, it was what I had to use as the float with superglue type glue and magnets, soldered into a plastic tube, then filled with epoxy resin then attached to the plastic wires by soldering, and there was a computer chip glued in, same glue, guess what they were used for? They float in your gas station tanks to as an alert of a leak or imminent explosion . I was inspected by the government and certified. We lost our work which had been in a plant, reduced to at home work if we wanted a job with no benefits, and this was outsourced alone with so many other jobs in the late 90's -early 2000's. After seeing the chemicals they used that could remove these agents and many others, I have no doubt they have a way to remove the battery to recycle it.
 
I have. And disk drives. And memory. It used to be reasonably easy, and, there is no reason for that to change.

Yes, there is. I've changed disk drives, and memory on notebooks (and desktops). The difference is those notebooks were bigger and heavier.

Plus, back in those days, we were often dealing with MB or even KB of RAM, and MB or low GB of disk space. Today Apple offers 4GB and 8GB RAM options in the MacBook Air, and 8GB and 16GB options in the rMBP. Generally, someone who needs 16GB RAM now will know it, and by the time someone who can get by with 4GB or 8GB will need 8GB or 16GB, chances are pretty good that they'll want a faster processor or better display or whatever else will have improved.

Notebooks always had less customizability. I suspect that desktops will also see less internal customizability, particular as Thunderbolt brings the possibility of added external functionality.
 
Incidentally, the battery pack on a Prius is guaranteed for 8 years. If it fails outside of the warranty, then it will cost $2000 + labour to replace it But what really sucks is that you can't do it yourself with a Philips screwdriver. :eek:

This really made me laugh. Thank you.
 
I'm really getting bored of news posts about this.

Where's the news post about how Apple ranks against other manufacturers?

Oh, they're way up there? Not news? Well then....

Seriously, do the research. Write the story.
 
Probably not, actually. Government offices and corporations don't use Macs very much to begin with, and when they do they usually aren't portables. Assuming it just affects the RMBP, anyways.

Then the hundreds of mac laptops my company have are an illusion?

Apple may be giddy with their consumer oriented push right now, but there are many, many companies and government agencies that use them. And it's fairly obvious that Apple does make profit from them, otherwise there would be no reason they so quickly backpedaled on this decision.

As for the retina MBP: I have to wonder why they had to use such a powerful glue to hold it in place. Wouldn't a weaker glue or double-sided tape and the friction of the closed case do the same job? It's not like there's a lot of space in there for it to rattle around in.
 
Makes sense to me. No upgradability, means it gets tossed as soon as better performance is needed. I don't know about the rest of the world admitedly, but where I'm from recycling is almost unheard of and considered unnecessary and a waste of time. :rolleyes:

Where are you from? Mars?

You scare me... :apple:
 
Makes sense to me. No upgradability, means it gets tossed as soon as better performance is needed. I don't know about the rest of the world admitedly, but where I'm from recycling is almost unheard of and considered unnecessary and a waste of time. :rolleyes:

Don't toss it for a better one, hand it down. Recycling 101, done.
 
How would something glued in be easier to remove then if it was attached by screws like they used to be or not attached at all except for friction?

According to people dissasembling the rMBP the glue is so strong that you can't remove it without damaging the battery, which would cause the battery to leak dangerous chemicals and present a firehazard.


I have a theory that there is another way of removing the batteries...

It can't just be that there is glue which means no removing batteries...

The batteries must be removable to replace a faulty trackpad?!

Therefore the batteries must be removable?

I have a theory that you must replace the entire battery enclosure/frame thingy when the batteries a replaced?

... o_O?
 
- Who cares. The battery is rated to last 5 years... And the replacement cost is fairly reasonable.

So, what exactly is the replacement cost on a rMBP? My old Acer had a bad battery after 4 years of maltreatment and it was about $110 incl. shipping&handling. Is that in this price range, keeping in mind that it takes 5sec the remove it. The rMBP has it - as we know - glued to the shell, the track pad, and the cables. So, replacing all that for about $110? I doubt it. Not even mentioning that perfectly good parts will land in the trash...


Edit: It was the TravelMate 8000 2GHz which I payed about 4k Euro for. Was the top-of-the-line back then. It still works.
 
I think this whole gluing the battery in thing is the worst idea Apple has ever had.

Batteries are consumable. They need to be replaced eventually. They contain toxic chemicals and need special handling for recycling.

Why did anyone at Apple think gluing the battery in was a good idea? It makes warranty service on the battery more expensive for the company. Surely a mounting screw does not occupy THAT MUCH space!

A glued-in battery is barely forgiveable on a $500 iPad. On a $2000 laptop with a much bigger battery? It's preposterous.

Yes and no. From an environmental point of view it means that a larger proportion of the batteries are probably really being replaced by service centres and then disposed of properly.
Out of all the people you know, how many people take their old batteries, (from whatever contraption in which they reside), and just either throw them in the bin or drop them just anywhere?

I work for a company that deals with batteries daily, (Nicads, VRLAs and wet cells of anything from 12V 4Ah up to 2V 2000Ah blocks). We go through maybe a few tons a week. Despite all of the recycling on the companys part, the individuals still throw their batteries in the bin which likely goes straight to landfill.
 
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I think this whole gluing the battery in thing is the worst idea Apple has ever had.

Batteries are consumable. They need to be replaced eventually. They contain toxic chemicals and need special handling for recycling.

Why did anyone at Apple think gluing the battery in was a good idea? It makes warranty service on the battery more expensive for the company. Surely a mounting screw does not occupy THAT MUCH space!

A glued-in battery is barely forgiveable on a $500 iPad. On a $2000 laptop with a much bigger battery? It's preposterous.

While I quite agree that gluing in a battery is pointless and preposterous, from a recycling standpoint, a little acetone or hell probably even some orange-oil based solvent will take the stuff right out, and eliminate the need to pry apart a plastic housing to access the materials.
 
Ah, yes, the american. This is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16K6m3Ua2nw

This glue thing deserves to blow up in Apple's face.
Using glue is just poor engineering, it's not elegant and frankly undeserving of a (self proclaimed, no less) high end product.
And it adds unnescessary difficulty for both replacement in the event of early failure, and end of life recycability.
How do you quick-fix a car's hood in less than 60 seconds at a NASCAR pit stop?

Duct tape. Lots.

It's not elegant at all, but it does work.

Same thing going on here. It's not elegant, but it does work, that's all it matters.
 
Why all the fighting over a battery?

Its not like my much more powerful and power hungry laptops battery can be removed in 5 seconds ..... wait.

Gluing in the battery in the name of useless thinness ;)
 
User-serviceability is not necessarily better for the environment.

I've thrown dozens of laptop batteries in the bin, along with motherboards, video cards, CPUs, etc.

When it comes time to upgrade a desktop or replace the battery in a laptop, I just pull the old parts out, throw them in the bin, and then put the new ones in.

My current Macbook Pro will be the first computer where I don't do this. Since I have to take it to Apple or a third-party repairer to get the replacement done, there is a much better chance of the old battery being recycled.

Best-practice these days is for the supplier to offer recycling services. End-user recycling never happened in the real world to any great extent. The scenario envisaged by EPEAT, where users (or disposal companies) pulled apart computers and recycled them, never really existed.
 
What is apple thinking with the MBPR

No upgrade for ram,
No upgrade for the SSD
No replaceable battrie at all, and its glued in.

What the hell.

What if the macintosh was never made, Would 1984 been like what the book said?

Guess, I should go read it.

You know I thought apple was about creativity and choice and stuff like that,

Where is the choice? The choice of parts and such? I think to be honest my next computer is a pc running OSX


Hmmm,

Lets look at the 1984 Mac

Needed a special screwdriver to open it.

No hard drive and no slot to allow one to be fitted.

128k RAM that was soldered onto the motherboard.


TBH I think Apple may have gone back to their roots!
 
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