Right to Repair Advocate on Apple's Program: 'Still Too Many Hoops to Jump Through' to Fix iPhones

[DMinTX]

What did people expect?
It’s Apple after all

Good grief. To replace the plugs in a 1986 Dodge minivan with the V6, you have to pull the motor to get to the back plugs. And that was an every 50k mile item with OEM plugs.

Your car is your second most expensive purchace - it’s not a clumsier grade device you upgrade every couple of years.

These “right to repair” groups never mention automobiles.

 

[unsynaps]

Translation: It's still difficult and still costs money to fix them, so right to repair people will never be happy.

Right to repair is just a smokescreen for people who don't want to pay what Apple charges for repairs. Until they find out that buying OEM parts and renting the tools is still going to cost almost as much. Suddenly they won't want to repair them anymore.

You make it sound like right to repair only pertains to people wanting to repair Apple products.

This alone makes anything you say irrelevant. Do not lump all right to repair people into your one size fits all bag.

 

[Kabeyun]

It’s starting to seem like the only satisfactory answer for some RtR activists would be for anyone to be able to tinker with any phone, use anyone’s parts, and have it be Apple‘s problem when they compromise reliability, security, or the warranty.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

…

 

[lazyrighteye]

It’s listed as ‘Display’, not screen.

Hahaha. Wow... Clearly, I had not been properly caffeinated when I was reviewing the service options. ?

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Translation: It's still difficult and still costs money to fix them, so right to repair people will never be happy.

Right to repair is just a smokescreen for people who don't want to pay what Apple charges for repairs. Until they find out that buying OEM parts and renting the tools is still going to cost almost as much. Suddenly they won't want to repair them anymore.

Do you have the same attitude about car parts?

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Well, the idea behind locking parts to a device is to discourage phone stealing, if someone steals or tries to sell a stolen iPhone it shouldn’t be worth the parts.

Right, so by that logic, when you go down to your local auto-parts store, you should first have to ring up the car manufacturer with the VIN number and the part number, so that they can remotely allow the car to work again?

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

As others have mentioned on the other threads today about Apple's program, the likely reason for Apple's "control" is to prevent stolen iOS devices from being harvested for spare parts. Yes, the cynic can (rightly) say that it's just to protect Apple's cut of the spare parts revenue stream, but it also helps curb the appeal of stealing iOS devices to feed an "underground parts network" and this should hopefully suppress the risk of iOS device theft significantly increasing.

And thus auto-parts should have the same attitude? Or any parts, for anything?

 

[Macative]

Do you have the same attitude about car parts?

Of course? Who fixes their own modern vehicles today? The parts are expensive, and so are the proper tools.

 

[Macative]

You make it sound like right to repair only pertains to people wanting to repair Apple products.

This alone makes anything you say irrelevant. Do not lump all right to repair people into your one size fits all bag.

It's the same empty bag of radically uninformed nonsense, yes. They think its like fixing a vacuum cleaner from 1963.

 

[StudioMacs]

Right, so by that logic, when you go down to your local auto-parts store, you should first have to ring up the car manufacturer with the VIN number and the part number, so that they can remotely allow the car to work again?

As a car enthusiast who wrenches on their own cars, I can tell you that we would love to be able to buy OEM parts.

Do you know how many hours I've gone through threads comparing aftermarket oil filters with the OEM oil filter, or batteries, or alternators, or distributors where the OEM parts are sold by different manufacturers and might be the same as the OEM part - or not?

If I knew I was getting the OEM ignition coil, instead of the Chinese one that burns out every 5,000 miles, I would happily provide the VIN.

 

[CWallace]

And thus auto-parts should have the same attitude? Or any parts, for anything?

On an intellectual level, yes. Owners of Honda Civics or Chevy pickups, for example, could enjoy lower insurance rates if they stopped being (some of) the most-stolen vehicles if their parts were not so easily transferrable and therefore valuable to criminal elements.

On a practical level, however...

 

[MallardDuck]

"we don't like that apple won't support and continue to honor their warranty after a consumer uses third party components that don't meet OEM standards for quality, safety and reliability - which we happen to sell"

The analogy here is car parts. You can absolutely use third party parts in your car, but if you do, don't go screaming to ford for warranty service, and if those parts bork something else in your vehicle, be prepared to pay to repair the damaged components.

Ford supplies OEM parts and tools and repair manuals. You can buy all three to do the work, you can use their repair manuals and aftermarket parts, or you can go to the dealer to do the repair. If you want a warranty, then it has to be an authorized repair center.

This isn't any different.

 

[MallardDuck]

As a car enthusiast who wrenches on their own cars, I can tell you that we would love to be able to buy OEM parts.

Do you know how many hours I've gone through threads comparing aftermarket oil filters with the OEM oil filter, or batteries, or alternators, or distributors where the OEM parts are sold by different manufacturers and might be the same as the OEM part - or not?

If I knew I was getting the OEM ignition coil, instead of the Chinese one that burns out every 5,000 miles, I would happily provide the VIN.

Bingo!

 

[MallardDuck]

People don’t seem to mind it actually. There is a Turkish phone repair shop on almost every corner here in Berlin

Yup, and there should be no expectation of warranty support after they use one. Just like if someone wires their basement without a permit and use lamp cord instead of 14/2 romex, when it burns down, don't expect the homeowners insurance to cover the damage.

 

[MisterAndrew]

This is really cool. The tools are available to purchase instead of rent too, so a person could start their own repair business. Great for the IT department of institutions too.

 

[MisterAndrew]

As a car enthusiast who wrenches on their own cars, I can tell you that we would love to be able to buy OEM parts.

Do you know how many hours I've gone through threads comparing aftermarket oil filters with the OEM oil filter, or batteries, or alternators, or distributors where the OEM parts are sold by different manufacturers and might be the same as the OEM part - or not?

If I knew I was getting the OEM ignition coil, instead of the Chinese one that burns out every 5,000 miles, I would happily provide the VIN.

It usually isn’t difficult to determine what the OEM is for a specific car part. Most of them have the original equipment manufacturer name or logo, and often their own part number, on it (in addition to the car manufacturer’s part number). Car manufacturers also commonly have two or more OEMs they contract with to supply a specific part (such as Hella and Marelli Automotive Lighting for a headlight or Delphi and Bosch for an ignition coil).

Also the major OEMs supply parts to most of the car makers. So it’s usually safe to select a good OEM brand for the part, even if they aren’t the OEM for the original part on the car. Sometimes a better part is available from a better OEM. Car manufacturers don’t always choose the best parts.

Some parts suppliers for consumers also show you on their website which the OEM is, such as FCP Euro. Some car manufacturers, such as BMW, often list the OEMs in the parts catalogue. Sometimes it’s common knowledge which the OEM is. For example, suspension components on European cars usually come from a ZF brand, such as Lemförder, Sachs, and Boge. British cars often have Lucas parts.

There are also some parts interchange websites such as kakapart.com. If you plug in the part number it’ll show you the part number for different OEMs.

 

[calmelb]

As a car enthusiast who wrenches on their own cars, I can tell you that we would love to be able to buy OEM parts.

But you can walk into a dealer and buy the official OEM part already? It’s sometimes not cheap, but they sell basically every part for the car.

I’m going by my past experiences with BMW, so unsure if that’s different with other manufacturers

 

[IamTimCook]

EU Lawmaker: Let's pass a law that requires all cellphone manufactures to use the same parts and design.

 

[44267547]

You keep quoting the good parts someone says right before they say “but” and then say what the really mean.

At no point did Ifixit state they were ‘upset’. You said that. I provided you a direct link/source stating they were actually ‘happy’ multiple times about the program, which they wouldn’t say that if it was a problem. Ifixit made indications of various concerns of the program in the future.

Perhaps choose your wording more closely and not use divert tactics to skirt my question, especially at no point did they ever openly admit they were ‘upset’. I understand this seems trivial, but it’s the principle behind the matter.

 

[StudioMacs]

At no point did Ifixit state they were ‘upset’. You said that. I provided you a direct link/source stating they were actually ‘happy’ multiple times about the program, which they wouldn’t say that if it was a problem. Ifixit made indications of various concerns of the program in the future.

Perhaps choose your wording more closely and not use divert tactics to skirt my question, especially at no point did they ever openly admit they were ‘upset’. I understand this seems trivial, but it’s the principle behind the matter.

They never openly admitted they felt threatened, but that press release makes It obvious.

 

[kesenwangs]

I don't see how locking parts to a specific device and requiring manufacturer approval to install it offers any benefit to the product owner, but it does allow Apple to maintain a lot of control over the repair process.

I’m assuming it’s to prevent the repair of stolen devices which Apple has already stated they would refuse to repair.

 

[StudioMacs]

But you can walk into a dealer and buy the official OEM part already? It’s sometimes not cheap, but they sell basically every part for the car.

I’m going by my past experiences with BMW, so unsure if that’s different with other manufacturers

No, you cannot walk into the dealer and buy the actual OEM, especially German and Japanese manufacturers.

You can buy a North American part number distributed in North America, but it’s often not the same part that was installed on the car in Germany or Japan. We get a lot of made in Mexico parts, or part number revision a from a new supplier in China. That’s why there are pages and pages of threads with photos comparing what the dealer parts department sells versus what is installed at the factory.

 

[amartinez1660]

As others have mentioned on the other threads today about Apple's program, the likely reason for Apple's "control" is to prevent stolen iOS devices from being harvested for spare parts. Yes, the cynic can (rightly) say that it's just to protect Apple's cut of the spare parts revenue stream, but it also helps curb the appeal of stealing iOS devices to feed an "underground parts network" and this should hopefully suppress the risk of iOS device theft significantly increasing.

Agreed.
And actually, I don’t care if the real reason is Apple trying to protect their revenue streams… if the net outcome is less theft and phones becoming worthless when sold to parts on the black market, then sign me in, let them protect all they want.

Motivation: I come from a country where people are willing to run over another person to steal their phone or even shoes.

 

[msp3]

Let's say it again loud and clear: The "repair" industry is all about charging you near-Apple prices for substandard work using stolen, counterfeit, salvaged, etc. parts and making a killing in the process.

Of course these criminals hate Apple-supplied parts and equipment. The margins are too small to cheat customers with!