Right to Repair Advocate on Apple's Program: 'Still Too Many Hoops to Jump Through' to Fix iPhones

[ahemchipmunk]

More bluster and entitlement from folk who think the world owes them a favour.

Imagine my entitlement when I just want to own the device I purchased, instead of permanently rent it under the false marketing leading me to believe I'm buying it.

I just don't want to crawl to Apple on hands & knees to replace a broken lightning port (which isn't even available under this program). Why is it so wrong I want to take responsibility for something I supposedly own? I'm not expecting to be able to go back to Apple and demand a fix under warranty or any support after. I don't even want them to design the devices to make repair easier or cheaper, just possible.

I'd rather they just end the ruse and refuse to sell devices anymore, only rent them for a monthly/annual fee. Then at least the terms of how this actually works would be clear.

 

[darngooddesign]

Anybody here moaning that Apple has the right to do this I have a question for you.
Have you always taken everything you own back to the OEM for service or repair?
Your boiler, your cooler, your car, your anything?
If the answer is yes to any of the above you’re a hypocrite.
If you’ve ever called a handyman or local serviceman ask your self if that applies to you.

I think you meant "no", not 'yes'.

 

[ahemchipmunk]

I'm going to get downvoted all to hell on this, but that's fine :

MY GOD some people have a lot of time on their hands!

Sir, you're on an internet forum. There's nothing but people with time on their hands as far as the eye can see.

 

[svish]

Process could have been simpler. But still happy that Apple has launched the self repair option. Don’t think self repair will be popular, but nice to know an option exists.

 

[mlody]

I think these big corps are forgetting that this program, as the name implies, is targettgin individuals, hence the name - self service repair. What where they expecting?

An individual can still order all parts and bring them to 3rd part to use the parts etc to perform repair if they decide that it is too difficult to do this themselves.

 

[Blackstick]

How many people change their own engine oil? A fraction of 1% of car owners, at best...

 

[Macative]

Classic Apple move

Sort of a veiled “f u” to everyone.

Ignorant take.

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

As others have mentioned on the other threads today about Apple's program, the likely reason for Apple's "control" is to prevent stolen iOS devices from being harvested for spare parts. Yes, the cynic can (rightly) say that it's just to protect Apple's cut of the spare parts revenue stream, but it also helps curb the appeal of stealing iOS devices to feed an "underground parts network" and this should hopefully suppress the risk of iOS device theft significantly increasing.

That’s actually an interesting angle, considering Find My iPhone and activation lock basically renders a stolen iPhone useless it makes sense that thieves would actually sell them for parts instead

I still think there’s a better way to do this but it makes Apple’s stance more understandable

 

[TopToffee]

Sir, you're on an internet forum. There's nothing but people with time on their hands as far as the eye can see.

There's levels to this game though.

 

[laptech]

I have no problem with Apple wanting to implement verification controls when wanting to use the repair tools because now that the tool(s) have been made available, there is nothing stoping thieves or criminal gangs from renting the tool kit to fix iphones they have stolen, because let's face, it will happen

 

[jlc1978]

Good grief. To replace the plugs in a 1986 Dodge minivan with the V6, you have to pull the motor to get to the back plugs. And that was an every 50k mile item with OEM plugs.

Your car is your second most expensive purchace - it’s not a clumsier grade device you upgrade every couple of years.

These “right to repair” groups never mention automobiles.

Right to repair does not mean ease of repair. Unless something is designed for repair chances are it won't be easily repaired since other priorites will win out. I feel your Dodge minivan pain, I had one as well. Transverse engines save space but are a pain to work on for even simple things like new plugs.

Right, so by that logic, when you go down to your local auto-parts store, you should first have to ring up the car manufacturer with the VIN number and the part number, so that they can remotely allow the car to work again?

A number of parts on a car are serialized with VINs to deter theft or at least identify stolen parts; plus you often cannot simply swap an electronics module from car to car easily. It's also a way to see if a part has been replaced, such as a fender.

No, you cannot walk into the dealer and buy the actual OEM, especially German and Japanese manufacturers.

You can buy a North American part number distributed in North America, but it’s often not the same part that was installed on the car in Germany or Japan. We get a lot of made in Mexico parts, or part number revision a from a new supplier in China. That’s why there are pages and pages of threads with photos comparing what the dealer parts department sells versus what is installed at the factory.

If it comes in a manufacturer's box, I would expect it to meet their standards even if the OEM was different. Part numbers get superseded by new part numbers so you need a cross reference. Manufacturers may even have different OEMs for the same part in the same vehicle; sometimes simply because of where various versions are made or when in the production run it was made.

Oddly enough, many German and Japanese cars are made in the USA, as well as elsewhere in the world. BMW's factory with the largest production is in SC, exporting 2/3's of its production.

British cars often have Lucas parts.

Which is why their owners have our deepest sympathy.

 

[jlc1978]

Yes the aftermarket works perfectly, especially in the auto industry. You can buy OEM parts or a cheap knockoff. The thing is the cheap knockoff is by law required to fulfill the exact same minimum safety standards as the OEM parts. Or you go to a random mechanic or dealership and they fix your problem with their tools for a cheap price compared to the branded stores.

Not quite. NHTSA/EPA have some regulations but they do not apply to all aftermarket parts, only those deemed emissions or safety related.

 

[dk001]

Well, the idea behind locking parts to a device is to discourage phone stealing, if someone steals or tries to sell a stolen iPhone it shouldn’t be worth the parts.

So much rhetoric (Apple's?).
If parts were plentiful and repairs low cost, stealing for parts would be minimized.
Claiming "it's to protect/prevent .." has been the mantra from Apple lately always at the expense of the consumer.
Basically more marketing BS.

 

[Mousse]

Also the major OEMs supply parts to most of the car makers. So it’s usually safe to select a good OEM brand for the part, even if they aren’t the OEM for the original part on the car. Sometimes a better part is available from a better OEM. Car manufacturers don’t always choose the best parts.

Yep. I buy Denso parts for my Toyotas, since they're the major OEM supplier of a lot of Japanese automakers. There are also a lot of aftermarket parts that are superior to OEM. I replaced the stock shocks with Bilstein (a big name OEM) on my Taco. Performance ? and ride quality improved quite a bit. OEM tires are a compromise as well except at the ultra high end.

I have fixed several phones in the past…but I tried to fix the broken rear glass on an 11 and that was a complete nightmare

I know that feeling.? Without Apple's fancy gadget, it's heat gun, pry, heat gun, pry...ad nauseam. This is me after taking the back off my wife's iPhone 11.

 

[dk001]

Can you provide direct sources or links to specifics of where iFixit is ‘upset’? Because I haven’t read anything showing their dissatisfaction for Apples right to repair program. If anything, they are in support of opposite of what you said and stated it was a ‘step in the right direction’.

As a matter of fact, this was iFixits response showing how satisfied they are with Apple making this decision:

“We are really happy to see Apple making repair manuals available for everyone for free online," said Chamberlain. "Like, seriously happy. Like, we've-been-asking-for-this-for-twenty-years happy. They're selling their own proprietary repair tools to the public, too, again for the very first time. You can buy official Apple battery presses and display adhesive removal devices—or even, to our surprise, rent those devices."

iFixit Says Apple's Self Service Repair Program is Great Step, But Has a Catch

Apple's newly-launched Self Service Repair program is a "great step" forward, but "not the unqualified win for repair enthusiasts...

www.macrumors.com

Perhaps you should read more than the headline?
iFixit felt this was a great step forward however ... they too are concerned with the serialization / verification aspect. They were very happy about tech manual access - that has been a long time coming.

Like iFixit said, great first step.

 

[dk001]

Of course? Who fixes their own modern vehicles today? The parts are expensive, and so are the proper tools.

That depends on what you are fixing.

 

[dk001]

"we don't like that apple won't support and continue to honor their warranty after a consumer uses third party components that don't meet OEM standards for quality, safety and reliability - which we happen to sell"

The analogy here is car parts. You can absolutely use third party parts in your car, but if you do, don't go screaming to ford for warranty service, and if those parts bork something else in your vehicle, be prepared to pay to repair the damaged components.

Ford supplies OEM parts and tools and repair manuals. You can buy all three to do the work, you can use their repair manuals and aftermarket parts, or you can go to the dealer to do the repair. If you want a warranty, then it has to be an authorized repair center.

This isn't any different.

RTR consumer doing warranty work?

 

[FreakinEurekan]

Those grapes sure are sour.

 

[MisterAndrew]

But you can walk into a dealer and buy the official OEM part already? It’s sometimes not cheap, but they sell basically every part for the car.

I’m going by my past experiences with BMW, so unsure if that’s different with other manufacturers

Yes, this is correct. If the car is old, like a BMW E30, the part might not be 100% identical to the original, but it will be made by the same OEM as the original (such as BBS for a wheel) or a current OEM the car manufacturer contracts with to make the part.

No, you cannot walk into the dealer and buy the actual OEM, especially German and Japanese manufacturers.

You can buy a North American part number distributed in North America, but it’s often not the same part that was installed on the car in Germany or Japan. We get a lot of made in Mexico parts, or part number revision a from a new supplier in China. That’s why there are pages and pages of threads with photos comparing what the dealer parts department sells versus what is installed at the factory.

This is not correct. When you go to the parts counter for a German automaker like BMW you will get the actual OEM part and it often comes direct from Germany because they have reduced the inventory in US warehouses. Most parts are made in Europe, but if it comes from China that's because the OEM is manufacturing them there. For example, ZF which is one of the largest OEMs, makes a lot of parts in China now, such as strut mounts and bushings, and the quality is not as good.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

After looking at the tools that they send to do the repair, I'm impressed, but still wonder how many people will be able to actually fix their own iPhone. *shrug* Good luck. It's a step in the right direction, for sure, but time will tell how it works out...

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Not quite. NHTSA/EPA have some regulations but they do not apply to all aftermarket parts, only those deemed emissions or safety related.

im talking about Europe. We have a "little" more regulatory oversight. And when I say little, I mean a lot.
Aftermarket parts must fulfill safety standards. Ether the manufacturers minimum standards as declared or the minimum regulatory safety standard if the manufacturers don't have specifications

 

[jlc1978]

im talking about Europe. We have a "little" more regulatory oversight. And when I say little, I mean a lot.
Aftermarket parts must fulfill safety standards. Ether the manufacturers minimum standards as declared or the minimum regulatory safety standard if the manufacturers don't have specifications

If you are referring to the UNECE, not all spare parts are covered by it; although individual states may require additional certification and some may require other certs such as CE depending on the device.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

If you are referring to the UNECE, not all spare parts are covered by it; although individual states may require additional certification and some may require other certs such as CE depending on the device.

Everything imported to be sold in EU must have a CE marking/ declaration, that includes a german company manufacturing goods in china must have a CE qualification.
The importer and/or manufacturer must take steps to comply with safety provisions, produce the appropriate records, and decide on the necessary procedures to maintain production in conformity with directives. The CE Mark must be affixed to demonstrate conformity with the provisions of the directives.

What is CE Marking? - CE Mark Certification vs. Self Declaration | ASQ

CE Marking is a conformity mark used to monitor and regulate goods sold within the European Union. The mark designates compliance with the EU’s New Approach Directives. Learn more at ASQ.org.

asq.org

and the UNECE is't an organisation, but just an easy collection of standards internationaly for Eu car manufacturers.
page 5-22 The United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) and EU are regulations every manufacturer must fulfill in EU. there is't any higher standard in EU. they are the exact same in every nation, only things not covered is decided nationally. And this to preserve the single market. A car sold in Germany must be able to be sold in Finland or Poland without changing anything but the language of the manual

 

[jlc1978]

Everything imported to be sold in EU must have a CE marking/ declaration, that includes a german company manufacturing goods in china must have a CE qualification.

IIRC, that is only true for goods covered by a directive, for example motor oil is not, IIRC. Are you saying every replacement part has to have a CE stamp? I'm curious what directive covers that.

Even the matching quality definition states they do not have to match the original fitted part quality but can match an economy line from the manufacturer. I'm not sure how that impacts regulations but it seems if a manufacturer makes a more stringent standard for some of its cars you could get parts that are legal but not built to the same standard.

I really am curiuos what regulations apply and to what.

and the UNECE is't an organisation,

It is a commission. Never underestimate the UN's ability to create bureaucracies and jobs.

but just an easy collection of standards internationaly for Eu car manufacturers.
page 5-22 The United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) and EU are regulations every manufacturer must fulfill in EU. there is't any higher standard in EU. they are the exact same in every nation, only things not covered is decided nationally. And this to preserve the single market. A car sold in Germany must be able to be sold in Finland or Poland without changing anything but the language of the manual

They have a set of standards for vehicles sold in the EU. So if areas not covered can be decided nationally, how do you ensure you can sell a car anywhere in the EU? It's not a bad as when France required yellow headlights, I presume.

 

[jakey rolling]

How many people change their own engine oil? A fraction of 1% of car owners, at best...

Sure. But how many people go back to the dealer to get their engine oil changed?