Rite Aid Disables Apple Pay Support After Initially Accepting Payments

[TraceyS/FL]

Oh the drama....

Out of all the hate talk of CurrentC, your post got my curiosity enough to check it out.

So, really, this is the big complaint? A cashier has to hit a separate button? OK, whatever....

They already do that when I have them scan a QR code on my phone for coupons if I choose to use electronic coupons. The also have to do that when I hand them paper coupons, which require them to hit several buttons.

I think they'll get over having one more button to push.

Cashiers aren't idiots. They know their machines. And, I don't see any of them likely to throw a big protest and suddenly hate their job because they got one more button to push.

I could see them getting quite annoyed at the occasional rare Apple Pay fanatic coming in and complaining that they can't pay with their Apple Pay device as they throw a tantrum and demand to make a production holding up the line because they insist that Apple must make commission on the purchase of their sustenance for their Apple lair (mother's basement).

Aside from being an electronic alternative to store cards, there is no other inherent evil to CurrentC. I don't care if Visa, MasterCard, or Apple get money when I buy groceries. I just assume they don't.

Now, the truth is finally starting to reveal itself in your objection. The apparent issue, is that it is another option to pay directly from your bank account like a debit card. So what. I've already got a Target Debit Card that pulls from my checking account, and saves me 5% on every purchase. I've also got a Target Credit Card that gives me 5% off on every purchase to use if my bank account happens to be low at the moment.

I'll gladly save 5% using a store card as opposed to paying more for the benefit of Visa, MasterCard, or Apple getting a percentage of my purchase. That's money in my pocket. No games, no rotating rewards cycles that never really pan out... immediate savings at time of purchase. Even better, with Target, I can save as much money as I feel like investing time.

I can use the Target App, and pick out several items to obtain a discount on (typically an additional 5% to 15% discount), add manufacturer coupons, then add printed store coupons, then add the 5% discount for using the Target Debit or Target Credit Card. Now we're saving some money, and it's staying in my pocket. I've seriously gone into Target using these techniques and saved $80 on $100 of merchandise, paying only $20 for that $100 of merchandise.

Yeah, give me a store card any day over supporting Apple Pay, Visa, or MasterCard.

Looking at CurrentC, it appears to simply be an electronic alternative to the Store Credit, and Store Debit Cards, which also combines built in couponing. Hardly the major evil that Apple Pay endorsers are trying to make it out to be.

Myself, I'll probably stick with my physical cards. But, making CurrentC out to be some major evil compared to Apple, I don't see it. I see an electronic equivalent of the Target model. And, the Target model saves me tons of money when I shop at Target.

I'll stick with my physical cards. But, if I were so inclined to consider paying by phone, the CurrentC looks like it offers more incentives and reasons to choose it over Apple Pay.

And, no, I am absolutely not concerned about the Cashier going all Postal because there is one more button to press. In all transactions, there are different buttons which are pressed by the Cashier at different times. Pressing the QR button is not going to necessarily be cumulative, just an alternate button to press instead of pressing the Cash button, or the Visa / MasterCard Button, or the EBT button.

I already put Cashiers through their paces sometimes when I decide to use 3 different payment methods, plus a club card, plus coupons. So, they'll live I'm sure.

Thanks for putting cashiers thru their paces, we LOVE people like you.

You sir are..... You just are.

The line I'm talking about isn't between me personally wanting to use Apple pay! but between the CurrentC clan and Visa/MC/Amex merchant fees.

Oh interesting that you have a target debit card yet are spewing all sorts of privacy things an d only dealing with local CC people you can talk to. You will give them access to ACH your checking account, but protect your Info so much.

I'm confused.

For the record. I have a 6. I've been to McDs and didn't use Apple pay - haven't yet at all.

Oh, and I'm a cashier at Target having to convince people daily they need a red card. MOST people won't do it, not even for 5% off each trip. Their miles OR privacy OR credit hit is more important to them. My store manager "talked" to me about getting RCs 4 times on Wednesday in my 4 hour closing shift. Because we didn't have enough for the day.... Only had 6 sign up.

I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to speak as to the hell the cashiers lives will become on ce More stores jump on the "use. CurrentC and let us debit your checking account" bandwagon. That is what I was talking about.

As to having to push special buttons for coupons or carthwheel - no we don't, they just scan. Someone further up was mentioning about the CurrentC thing just working. It doesn't at Target right now, it does require the cashier to push a button before scanning. It also apparently does your cartwheel and employee discount in one scan, which is nice.

I will continue to use my Debit red card and my separate cartwheel app. I don't trust he security of the CurrentC for payment. I might use it for loyalty stuff, but I'm not doing any other "debit cards" (which at target require you to give your SS# despite there not being a credit check).

 

[flyinmac]

It's a bad point.

There is a thing your phone knows and a thing your bank knows, and the time of the transaction along with the thing your phone knows allows you to generate a "credit card number" that when passed through the networks is approved by your bank because the thing only they know unpacks it and sees that it is valid.

This format of encryption is decades-old and wildly effective, and is at the core of tokenization. What makes this even better is that even if by some method they got their hands on a token it is completely useless as once the singular transaction has been approved it is discarded and invalid. Hackers cannot collect tokens from a target database and use them to buy stuff.

The one thing history has taught us, is that it takes less time to find a way to defeat security than it did to devise the method of security.

Tokens are not in and of themselves foolproof. If you're relying on the idea of decades old encryption... realize that decades old encryption is not something new, nor is it impervious.

Apple designing a security system is even less convincing that it cannot be compromised. Anymore than if Microsoft were designing the security system. I wouldn't put my trust into either company as being the end-all ultimate in financial security.

 

[samcraig]

This is all about more of your shopping habits and data being spread around merchants (the opposite of the security and privacy built into Apple Pay).

Only - a store that rings you up already has collected that data. And I imaged that linking it to you via Apple Pay isn't any different than linking it to you via a physical card. You're not anonymous when you use Apple pay.

Exactly what? That you don't understand the technology? Explain how Apple Pay could NOT be more secure than magnetic stripe swiping. I'll wait . . . . . . . . Have you even read the EMVco specifications? Here, I'll help you: http://www.emvco.com/specifications.aspx

You're missing the point again. TODAY this might be the most secure method with no way for it to be breached. His point was that historically, where there's a will, there's usually a way. It's too early to tell whether or not this is fullproof. And quite frankly - I don't think anything truly is. I do think this is a step in the right direction.

 

[ericinboston]

How will Rite Aid explain to users that they are banning ALL NFC payments for a less secure way of paying and one that collects their marketing info? They will have to peddle hard when that information is spread to everyone (like now). Are you telling me THAT will be bad for Apple?

BTW, there is a reason that Apple has ONLY publicized their official partners as participating in Apple Pay? Because of bozos like Rite Aid could screw them otherwise. Best thing not disapointing your clients is not overpromising.

That the media hypes thing, which they do day and night, is not Apple's responsability at all.

Although I mostly agree with your topics/points, they have NOTHING to do with my post...you didn't connect any of your points to what I said. Maybe you just hit the wrong Reply button. I dunno.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

C (particularly when it comes to refunds or returns -- because it won't be as quick as the $$ going out).

For the record, currently, my usaa red card debits take 4 days to clear, but refunds post in 2. I can actually have the money back before the payment clears.

It was not always like this.

Also, target has recently started to NOT give cash back for a red card debit return. Back to card or gift card only.

 

[flyinmac]

Oh you really think currentC will give you an 80% discount on each purchase? Good luck with that. CurrentC is doomed to fail. Requires separate APP. You must wake your phone open APP, scan QR code. And in the end, you are sharing personal data and having cash directly pulled from your account. Yeah, sounds wonderful. No way that will be popular.

Yeah, that's why so many people have Visa Check cards, club cards, and use coupon apps... yeah, nobody will share any of that information.

Whatever.....

 

[caesarp]

Only - a store that rings you up already has collected that data. And I imaged that linking it to you via Apple Pay isn't any different than linking it to you via a physical card. You're not anonymous when you use Apple pay.

No. If I walk into a store and use Apple Pay, they do not have any of my credit card data (which is what we are talking about). Of course, they have the transaction data, to authorize the transaction and if I need to make a return. But they don't have my name, my address, my credit card #, my CVV or my expiration data. Those are what are called track 1 and track 2 data on magnetic stripes on credit cards. That is what hackers got in Target and Home Depot. Since with Apple Pay none of that passes through the merchant, Apple pay is way more secure. The issuing bank (which bills my credit card) knows about the transaction of course (but the merchant does NOT have my data).

You're missing the point again. TODAY this might be the most secure method with no way for it to be breached. His point was that historically, where there's a will, there's usually a way. It's too early to tell whether or not this is fullproof. And quite frankly - I don't think anything truly is. I do think this is a step in the right direction.

No, you are missing the point. Even IF hackers get into the merchant's Apple Pay transactions, there is nothing valuable for them to take. A token is worthless, and that's all they would see. While there could be one-off transactions that are fraudulent (if someone got your phone or something), the massive hacks of data cannot happen with Apple Pay. Cause the merchant has NOTHING to hack that is useful to hackers. That's the big difference.

 

[iwayne]

Happened to me yesterday in NYC. Had no clue about it purposely being disabled. Oh well CVS & Duane Reade can have my business now. See ya Rite Aid

 

[caesarp]

Yeah, that's why so many people have Visa Check cards, club cards, and use coupon apps... yeah, nobody will share any of that information.

Whatever.....

There's billions of credit cards. Way more than all that other fluff.

 

[doelcm82]

Oh the drama....

Out of all the hate talk of CurrentC, your post got my curiosity enough to check it out.

So, really, this is the big complaint? A cashier has to hit a separate button? OK, whatever....

They already do that when I have them scan a QR code on my phone for coupons if I choose to use electronic coupons. The also have to do that when I hand them paper coupons, which require them to hit several buttons.

I think they'll get over having one more button to push.

Cashiers aren't idiots. They know their machines. And, I don't see any of them likely to throw a big protest and suddenly hate their job because they got one more button to push.

I could see them getting quite annoyed at the occasional rare Apple Pay fanatic coming in and complaining that they can't pay with their Apple Pay device as they throw a tantrum and demand to make a production holding up the line because they insist that Apple must make commission on the purchase of their sustenance for their Apple lair (mother's basement).

Aside from being an electronic alternative to store cards, there is no other inherent evil to CurrentC. I don't care if Visa, MasterCard, or Apple get money when I buy groceries. I just assume they don't.

Now, the truth is finally starting to reveal itself in your objection. The apparent issue, is that it is another option to pay directly from your bank account like a debit card. So what. I've already got a Target Debit Card that pulls from my checking account, and saves me 5% on every purchase. I've also got a Target Credit Card that gives me 5% off on every purchase to use if my bank account happens to be low at the moment.

I'll gladly save 5% using a store card as opposed to paying more for the benefit of Visa, MasterCard, or Apple getting a percentage of my purchase. That's money in my pocket. No games, no rotating rewards cycles that never really pan out... immediate savings at time of purchase. Even better, with Target, I can save as much money as I feel like investing time.

I can use the Target App, and pick out several items to obtain a discount on (typically an additional 5% to 15% discount), add manufacturer coupons, then add printed store coupons, then add the 5% discount for using the Target Debit or Target Credit Card. Now we're saving some money, and it's staying in my pocket. I've seriously gone into Target using these techniques and saved $80 on $100 of merchandise, paying only $20 for that $100 of merchandise.

Yeah, give me a store card any day over supporting Apple Pay, Visa, or MasterCard.

Looking at CurrentC, it appears to simply be an electronic alternative to the Store Credit, and Store Debit Cards, which also combines built in couponing. Hardly the major evil that Apple Pay endorsers are trying to make it out to be.

Myself, I'll probably stick with my physical cards. But, making CurrentC out to be some major evil compared to Apple, I don't see it. I see an electronic equivalent of the Target model. And, the Target model saves me tons of money when I shop at Target.

I'll stick with my physical cards. But, if I were so inclined to consider paying by phone, the CurrentC looks like it offers more incentives and reasons to choose it over Apple Pay.

And, no, I am absolutely not concerned about the Cashier going all Postal because there is one more button to press. In all transactions, there are different buttons which are pressed by the Cashier at different times. Pressing the QR button is not going to necessarily be cumulative, just an alternate button to press instead of pressing the Cash button, or the Visa / MasterCard Button, or the EBT button.

I already put Cashiers through their paces sometimes when I decide to use 3 different payment methods, plus a club card, plus coupons. So, they'll live I'm sure.

You were talking about how relaxing and convenient it was to just hand your card to the cashier. There is no way you are going to embrace CurrentC, which requires you to open an app (which I won't have to do with Apple Pay). And using three different payment methods plus club card, plus coupons to put cashiers through their paces doesn't sound that tranquil.

With your desire to counter every point, you've revealed that your current way of paying for things is complicated, frustrating, and ripe for fraud.

 

[caesarp]

The one thing history has taught us, is that it takes less time to find a way to defeat security than it did to devise the method of security.

Tokens are not in and of themselves foolproof. If you're relying on the idea of decades old encryption... realize that decades old encryption is not something new, nor is it impervious.

Apple designing a security system is even less convincing that it cannot be compromised. Anymore than if Microsoft were designing the security system. I wouldn't put my trust into either company as being the end-all ultimate in financial security.

LOL. Clearly you are a troll. Apple didn't design the security of tokenization. The beauty of Apple Pay is that it uses the EXISTING tokenization scheme established by the card brands (and by the way added an ADDITIONAL layer of security via touchID). I can tell by your user name here that you like to cause trouble. So fly away, either you don't understand Apple Pay or you are just trolling for laughs.

Read this, which explains the framework of tokenization:

http://www.emvco.com/specifications.aspx?id=263

 

[IGregory]

Devoted Apple Fans to the Extreme

First, let me say I have a Macbook Pro, an iPad Air, and an iphone 5s, and will purchase additional Apple products as needed. That said, I'm not about to make purchase decisions because I own Apple products. Apple does not know me and as an individual could probably care less about me. Some of you act as though you would jump off a cliff if Apple ask you to do so. Business is business. If a transaction is in my best interest I will make my buying decision based on that fact not from misguided loyalty to a company. Its incredible how some of you will eat Apple poop to prove your loyalty. I don't get it.

 

[flyinmac]

Oh interesting that you have a target debit card yet are spewing all sorts of privacy things an d only dealing with local CC people you can talk to. You will give them access to ACH your checking account, but protect your Info so much.

I'm confused.

Nothing to be confused about... Target can't draw any more money from a checking account than I put in it. The account that they have access to never has any money in it unless I intend to spend money. And, then only what I intend to spend from that account is placed in there.

Can't steal what you can't find. I could post that account number all over the world and it wouldn't cost me a dime. It also cannot be overdrawn, so if it's zero, it is zero. It's covered.

I have numerous accounts, they all serve different purposes.

Any money I allow to accumulate is in a totally different bank.

And, I don't link any of my accounts.

And, yes, for my banking, and real credit cards, I only deal with local banks with local presence.

 

[street.cory]

well regardless its debatable that it was a major rollout given that the ipod touch at that time was essentially an iphone without the phone.
the iphone was the major rollout of that product line.

It depends on who you talk to. Back when the iPhone and the touch-screen smartphone was new, very few people had an iPhone. Not only did the data package add to the monthly bill and was an AT&T exclusive, but the initial investment of the phone was a lot higher than what people were used to paying (until they lowered the price shortly after launch). From 2007-2010 more people I knew (anecdotal evidence, i know) had an iPod Touch + Basic phone than an iPhone. It was a major step forward for iOS devices and a revolution to the iPod line and I would wager that the iPod Touch was/is the best-selling iPod.

 

[farmkittie]

That would prove that they have explicitly done something to disable Apple Pay. Since there is no difference to the store and the money that the get between normal NFC cards and Apple Pay, that would be evidence that this is just a dick move where someone had to invest a lot of work to break it.

Right. I guess they are going to use a competing payment system based what others have said. Someone said the other payment system goes directly to your bank account (not sure about that. Sounds strange) but here's the part I bet is true: They harvest your demographics and buying preferences to advertise to you. Apple promised they would never do that.

 

[opfreak]

What tax? Stores pay nothing to Apple. Anything Apple gets from Apple Pay comes from the issuing banks (out of the existing transaction fees).

So what are you talking about?

----------



What point did I miss? Explain.

like those banks wont pass those fee's along?

 

[flyinmac]

You were talking about how relaxing and convenient it was to just hand your card to the cashier. There is no way you are going to embrace CurrentC, which requires you to open an app (which I won't have to do with Apple Pay). And using three different payment methods plus club card, plus coupons to put cashiers through their paces doesn't sound that tranquil.

With your desire to counter every point, you've revealed that your current way of paying for things is complicated, frustrating, and ripe for fraud.

I have a choice of which way I'd like to go when I shop. If I go to Target and want to save as much as I can, I'll put some effort in it. If I want to save 80% on my purchases, it's worth the effort to do that.

Maybe once a month, I'll actually plan out a shopping trip and get the coupons and everything ready.

The majority of the time, I won't mess with it. And, I'll just go the simple route, and hand them my card and let them run it when it's time. I only use Target when I'm feeling like messing with a big shopping trip and doing the major couponing. Otherwise, I just hit any other random store in town.

I'm not going to move to Cell phone based purchasing anyway (as I stated). But, if I were to consider a cell phone based option, then CurrentC definitely looks like it would have more to offer me as incentives.

Apple Pay doesn't do anything that adds convenience to me.

 

[samcraig]

No. If I walk into a store and use Apple Pay, they do not have any of my credit card data (which is what we are talking about). Of course, they have the transaction data, to authorize the transaction and if I need to make a return. But they don't have my name, my address, my credit card #, my CVV or my expiration data. Those are what are called track 1 and track 2 data on magnetic stripes on credit cards. That is what hackers got in Target and Home Depot. Since with Apple Pay none of that passes through the merchant, Apple pay is way more secure. The issuing bank (which bills my credit card) knows about the transaction of course (but the merchant does NOT have my data).

No, you are missing the point. Even IF hackers get into the merchant's Apple Pay transactions, there is nothing valuable for them to take. A token is worthless, and that's all they would see. While there could be one-off transactions that are fraudulent (if someone got your phone or something), the massive hacks of data cannot happen with Apple Pay. Cause the merchant has NOTHING to hack that is useful to hackers. That's the big difference.

I'm not talking about financial security or data. I'm talking about purchase history. One of your arguments against the other form of payment was that stores can share your buying behavior. Apple pay isn't going to prevent that.

As for the second point - you've missed it again. You are speaking from today's view of the security model. However, as it keeps being pointed out to you - these models have been often later shown to not be infallible. I'm not talking about massive hacking, or anything else. I'm not talking about what can happen today. I'm talking about how historically - security has and always will be an issue. If you think that Apple pay can and never will be exploited somehow - you're naive.

 

[tbrinkma]

You know this is not true right? I don't have to accept $100s or pennies or checks. Are vending machines illegal because they don't accept $100s or pennies or Apple Pay?

The requirement most are thinking of is that you have to accept US currency as payment for a *debt owed*. When you're paying for something *before* you gain possession of it, you don't owe a debt. That's the typical method of dealing with a store or a vending machine.
When you pay for something *after* receiving it (such as payments for services rendered), you do owe a debt.

The real trick with the whole 'must accept US currency as payment for a debt owed' used to be that you needed to be able to prove that you attempted to make said payment and were refused. That's much easier these days with camera phones.

 

[samcraig]

Apple Pay doesn't do anything that adds convenience to me.

Oh wait - it frees up space in your pocket for your bigger iphone since you don't need to carry your wallet

 

[zeromeus]

"Rite Aid" is now Wrong Unhelpful

... Oh well! I don't shop there anyway!

 

[doelcm82]

Nothing to be confused about... Target can't draw any more money from a checking account than I put in it. The account that they have access to never has any money in it unless I intend to spend money. And, then only what I intend to spend from that account is placed in there.

Can't steal what you can't find. I could post that account number all over the world and it wouldn't cost me a dime. It also cannot be overdrawn, so if it's zero, it is zero. It's covered.

I have numerous accounts, they all serve different purposes.

Any money I allow to accumulate is in a totally different bank.

And, I don't link any of my accounts.

And, yes, for my banking, and real credit cards, I only deal with local banks with local presence.

Your financial life is very complicated. I'm not sure how you have time to sit down with all those high level bank executives, while you're driving around transferring money by hand from bank to totally different bank so you can have the exact amount in your Target bank account that you need on your next Target shopping spree where you will put the cashiers through their paces.

Give me Apple Pay any day.

 

[flyinmac]

Right. I guess they are going to use a competing payment system based what others have said. Someone said the other payment system goes directly to your bank account (not sure about that. Sounds strange) but here's the part I bet is true: They harvest your demographics and buying preferences to advertise to you. Apple promised they would never do that.

Yeah, cause Apple never does that... right....

Anyone remember iTunes? Not only does it recommend shows and music based on what you've purchased before, but they'll also constantly e-mail you with things they think you would like if you dare to give them an email address.

The junk e-mail account I have gets more advertisements from Apple than anyone else.

 

[caesarp]

like those banks wont pass those fee's along?

Not really. They banks feel its worth it because of the security with Apple Pay. Therefore they are paying less in dealing with fraud charges and re-issuing cards. No one has announced merchant payment processing rate increases as a result of Apple Pay. The transaction fees didn't go up, its just split with an additional party -- Apple.

----------

Yeah, cause Apple never does that... right....

Anyone remember iTunes? Not only does it recommend shows and music based on what you've purchased before, but they'll also constantly e-mail you with things they think you would like if you dare to give them an email address.

The junk e-mail account I have gets more advertisements from Apple than anyone else.

What does that have to do with Apple Pay?

 

[samcraig]

Right. I guess they are going to use a competing payment system based what others have said. Someone said the other payment system goes directly to your bank account (not sure about that. Sounds strange) but here's the part I bet is true: They harvest your demographics and buying preferences to advertise to you. Apple promised they would never do that.

It's not going to stop the retail location from harvesting demographics and buying preferences. So not sure I see the point of your post. Ok - so Apple won't be collecting it.