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No need to shout at me that was a total accident. I meant to cut the entire top part. My phone is stupid sometimes. It doesn't change what I replied to at all though.

And if they made a tab they have to take your pennies. If they don't you can give them to them in court. It's legal to repay that debt and they have no choice. Especially if they didn't clearly signpost "no payment in pennies" which would arguably make it part of the contract. A contract can specify payment method. But a restaurant doesn't. Feel free to pay in all pennies. But unless you like the taste of spit, never go back!

I apologize. I get what you are saying. I just went back and noticed that two separate posts I made were merged. I'm assuming because they posted at the exact same time.

I see your point exactly. Of course, in reality most places don't care because of the hassle of suing and making sure you have proof of the infraction. Because by the time I get to that point, they will have a sent me to collections, force me to try and prove that they refused payment, meanwhile my credit is ruined from it. However, I am digressing to be honest.

I guess my point was that although laws state things, there are quite a few of them that like to be vague, whether or not this one is included. I have a tendency to have a tengential thought process.

Humoring myself however is to think about if I ever have to pay taxes, what they would think if I paid in all pennies. Talk about 7 years of bad luck. :D
 
This tells me one thing... The CurrentC people are going to play hardball - and shopping at their places are going to get ugly. This is big money, they are taking On the merchant fees. They want you to get a store card - using your checking account info. Then they will ACH payment you like Target.

Their cashiers are going to have life at work turn into hell for them over conversion rates.

As to RiteAid violating their agreement by turning this off - are they a MC Paypass/Wave partner? They they could be in that case.

And CurrentC isn't vaporware, it is in trials at Target - and requires a new button on. The register for cashiers to punch before they scan the QR code.

The line is being drawn..... And unless we push for security, we the consumer will be the pawns and the losers.
 
This is why it's such a dick move . . .

UPDATE: In a move one can only describe as bizarre, RiteAid has apparently blocked both Apple Pay and Google Wallet. In order to do this, you have to specifically design your back end to look for transactions using those IDs and then halt them while still allowing ordinary NFC-equipped cards to pass through. In other words, you have to spend effort to inconvenience your customers. My local RiteAid is my drugstore of choice because it’s nearby and on the way to/from many other errands. I’ll be sure to let management know I’m going out of my way until they reverse this weird decision.)

Via Forbes. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrog...ew-glitches-many-successes-lots-of-diet-coke/
 
UPDATE: In a move one can only describe as bizarre, RiteAid has apparently blocked both Apple Pay and Google Wallet. In order to do this, you have to specifically design your back end to look for transactions using those IDs and then halt them while still allowing ordinary NFC-equipped cards to pass through. In other words, you have to spend effort to inconvenience your customers. My local RiteAid is my drugstore of choice because it’s nearby and on the way to/from many other errands. I’ll be sure to let management know I’m going out of my way until they reverse this weird decision.)

Via Forbes. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrog...ew-glitches-many-successes-lots-of-diet-coke/

Do we know other NFC cards are being allowed and only Apple Pay and Google Wallet are being blocked?
 
"How quickly the world owes us something that didn't exist 5 minutes ago. Can Ya give it a second!" - Louis CK

Pretty much this. Outrage over something you can't do that you couldn't do prior to a few days ago?

Google wallet users have more of a right to be pissed. But even then - OH NOOOOO you have to take your CC out.

I see Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc and a nice convenience - not ever something to get irate about because a store doesn't have it.
 
This reminds me of many years ago when people would try to organize a protest and get people not to buy gas on a certain day, just to hit the oil companies in the pocket. Of course everyone still went to work and did all the driving they normally do. So instead of buying gas on Tuesday, they bought it Monday or Wednesday. Oil companies didn't lose a dime.

Exactly
 
Pretty much this. Outrage over something you can't do that you couldn't do prior to a few days ago?

Google wallet users have more of a right to be pissed. But even then - OH NOOOOO you have to take your CC out.

I see Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc and a nice convenience - not ever something to get irate about because a store doesn't have it.

Not just convenience, but security too. It seems like once a week now there is a store who haves a credit card hacking now and we need something more secured and this is it.
 
Pretty much this. Outrage over something you can't do that you couldn't do prior to a few days ago?

Google wallet users have more of a right to be pissed. But even then - OH NOOOOO you have to take your CC out.

I see Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc and a nice convenience - not ever something to get irate about because a store doesn't have it.

there is intelligence left in this world

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Not just convenience, but security too. It seems like once a week now there is a store who haves a credit card hacking now and we need something more secured and this is it.

It's nothing more than another option among many others. Nothing has proven this to be more secure. A theory that in some people's mind gives them comfort. Nothing other than theory indicates that this is more secure. It's been available for a couple of days. Give it a while and see what happens. Not like credit cards were getting fraudulent charges on them on day number 2 either.

----------

UPDATE: In a move one can only describe as bizarre, RiteAid has apparently blocked both Apple Pay and Google Wallet. In order to do this, you have to specifically design your back end to look for transactions using those IDs and then halt them while still allowing ordinary NFC-equipped cards to pass through. In other words, you have to spend effort to inconvenience your customers. My local RiteAid is my drugstore of choice because it’s nearby and on the way to/from many other errands. I’ll be sure to let management know I’m going out of my way until they reverse this weird decision.)

Via Forbes. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrog...ew-glitches-many-successes-lots-of-diet-coke/

And they'll gladly let you go on your way. The manager will not lose any sleep that night thinking of you.
 
UPDATE: In a move one can only describe as bizarre, RiteAid has apparently blocked both Apple Pay and Google Wallet. In order to do this, you have to specifically design your back end to look for transactions using those IDs and then halt them while still allowing ordinary NFC-equipped cards to pass through. In other words, you have to spend effort to inconvenience your customers. My local RiteAid is my drugstore of choice because it’s nearby and on the way to/from many other errands. I’ll be sure to let management know I’m going out of my way until they reverse this weird decision.)

Via Forbes. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrog...ew-glitches-many-successes-lots-of-diet-coke/

Reading their article, they tried it at Subway and at the place where they tried, they did indeed have NFC terminals, but they were not in reach of the customers. So a customer would have to hand over their card so the employee can hold it against the NFC terminal, which doesn't work well with an iPhone and TouchID.

The real problem with this is that the card leaves your hand, so you don't know if the employee takes a quick photo of the card to use the number elsewhere, or if he holds it to a second NFC terminal so you don't pay for your sandwich but for the three sandwiches that a friend of the employee just bought. All exactly the kind of thing that Apple Pay is supposed to avoid.

(I'm quite sure that the huge majority of Subway employees are perfectly honest and would never even think of doing something like this).

----------

And they'll gladly let you go on your way. The manager will not lose any sleep that night thinking of you.

The problem is not the guy who is pissed off that apparently Rite Aid actually spent money on inconveniencing him, but the dozens of people that he tells about. Including all the Android lovers who for once agree with him, because it seems they intentionally disabled both Apple and Google payments.

We all know that sometimes things go wrong, and when things go wrong, that is even an opportunity for a business to shine by fixing the problem promptly. A business doing things on purpose and actually spending money in order to inconvenience me, that makes people _really_ annoyed and they will do what they can to hurt the business.

----------

From the story:

"The most publicized hiccup occurred with Bank of America customers, who were accidentally charged twice for their purchases. Bank of America confirmed that the issue only affected a small number of users who will receive refunds."

Bank of America issuing refunds?????????????????????

Not much choice, because the alternative is keeping the money and going to court for theft.

----------

Yep! 3% on gas at Costco with AMEX, 3% on Gas and Restaurants with Chase AARP Visa and 2.2% on everything else with BarclayCard Arrival+. Not a shill for anyone but glad to promote those who give me a great deal.

I hope Apple can strike a deal with state DMVs to provide digital Drivers' Licences. Then the digital wallet would be complete.!

That's difficult.

You think TouchID proves it's me holding the phone, but it doesn't really. If I trust my wife, I can put my credit cards on _her_ phone with _her_ TouchID, so she can buy things with _my_ credit card. Well, that's my business. If she spends too much, my fault, my problem.

But with a driving license, I could put _my_ driving license on _her_ phone with _her_ TouchID, and if a cop stops her and wants to see that she has a valid license, she can prove she has a valid license. Well, _my_ valid license.

I'm sure something can be done, but it would have to be somewhat clever.

----------

It isn't hard for me to stop shopping at Rite Aid, because I don't shop there now.

Excuse me, but that makes it very hard to stop shopping there! :p
 
This tells me one thing... The CurrentC people are going to play hardball - and shopping at their places are going to get ugly. This is big money, they are taking On the merchant fees. They want you to get a store card - using your checking account info. Then they will ACH payment you like Target.

Their cashiers are going to have life at work turn into hell for them over conversion rates.

As to RiteAid violating their agreement by turning this off - are they a MC Paypass/Wave partner? They they could be in that case.

And CurrentC isn't vaporware, it is in trials at Target - and requires a new button on. The register for cashiers to punch before they scan the QR code.

The line is being drawn..... And unless we push for security, we the consumer will be the pawns and the losers.

Oh the drama....

Out of all the hate talk of CurrentC, your post got my curiosity enough to check it out.

So, really, this is the big complaint? A cashier has to hit a separate button? OK, whatever....

They already do that when I have them scan a QR code on my phone for coupons if I choose to use electronic coupons. The also have to do that when I hand them paper coupons, which require them to hit several buttons.

I think they'll get over having one more button to push.

Cashiers aren't idiots. They know their machines. And, I don't see any of them likely to throw a big protest and suddenly hate their job because they got one more button to push.

I could see them getting quite annoyed at the occasional rare Apple Pay fanatic coming in and complaining that they can't pay with their Apple Pay device as they throw a tantrum and demand to make a production holding up the line because they insist that Apple must make commission on the purchase of their sustenance for their Apple lair (mother's basement).

Aside from being an electronic alternative to store cards, there is no other inherent evil to CurrentC. I don't care if Visa, MasterCard, or Apple get money when I buy groceries. I just assume they don't.

Now, the truth is finally starting to reveal itself in your objection. The apparent issue, is that it is another option to pay directly from your bank account like a debit card. So what. I've already got a Target Debit Card that pulls from my checking account, and saves me 5% on every purchase. I've also got a Target Credit Card that gives me 5% off on every purchase to use if my bank account happens to be low at the moment.

I'll gladly save 5% using a store card as opposed to paying more for the benefit of Visa, MasterCard, or Apple getting a percentage of my purchase. That's money in my pocket. No games, no rotating rewards cycles that never really pan out... immediate savings at time of purchase. Even better, with Target, I can save as much money as I feel like investing time.

I can use the Target App, and pick out several items to obtain a discount on (typically an additional 5% to 15% discount), add manufacturer coupons, then add printed store coupons, then add the 5% discount for using the Target Debit or Target Credit Card. Now we're saving some money, and it's staying in my pocket. I've seriously gone into Target using these techniques and saved $80 on $100 of merchandise, paying only $20 for that $100 of merchandise.

Yeah, give me a store card any day over supporting Apple Pay, Visa, or MasterCard.

Looking at CurrentC, it appears to simply be an electronic alternative to the Store Credit, and Store Debit Cards, which also combines built in couponing. Hardly the major evil that Apple Pay endorsers are trying to make it out to be.

Myself, I'll probably stick with my physical cards. But, making CurrentC out to be some major evil compared to Apple, I don't see it. I see an electronic equivalent of the Target model. And, the Target model saves me tons of money when I shop at Target.

I'll stick with my physical cards. But, if I were so inclined to consider paying by phone, the CurrentC looks like it offers more incentives and reasons to choose it over Apple Pay.

And, no, I am absolutely not concerned about the Cashier going all Postal because there is one more button to press. In all transactions, there are different buttons which are pressed by the Cashier at different times. Pressing the QR button is not going to necessarily be cumulative, just an alternate button to press instead of pressing the Cash button, or the Visa / MasterCard Button, or the EBT button.

I already put Cashiers through their paces sometimes when I decide to use 3 different payment methods, plus a club card, plus coupons. So, they'll live I'm sure.
 
Hundred dollar bill. Why is this person in McDonalds?

Because he or she can afford it and wants something to eat quickly?

----------

Why would they do that? Apple Pay collects a percentage of the transaction in fees. Why would a Credit Card company get excited about that? Share the wealth... yeah right. I see no incentive for credit card companies to jump all over this and push Apple Pay. Not unless Apple wants to start paying kickbacks to the Credit Card companies.

It reduces the fraud rate. And fraud comes out of the pocket of the credit card company. 0.15% for a payment method that reduces fraud is something they are very willing to pay.
 
Pretty much this. Outrage over something you can't do that you couldn't do prior to a few days ago?

Google wallet users have more of a right to be pissed. But even then - OH NOOOOO you have to take your CC out.

I see Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc and a nice convenience - not ever something to get irate about because a store doesn't have it.

That's where you are wrong. Its not outrage because a store doesn't have it. Its because they have the capability and allowed it, but then decided to specifically block it. There's a big difference between don't have it, and we are specifically blocking it just because we want to.
 
So I tried and it appeared to go through but then the " !No hable! Apple Pay" message came up ...

That would prove that they have explicitly done something to disable Apple Pay. Since there is no difference to the store and the money that the get between normal NFC cards and Apple Pay, that would be evidence that this is just a dick move where someone had to invest a lot of work to break it.
 
there is intelligence left in this world

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It's nothing more than another option among many others. Nothing has proven this to be more secure. A theory that in some people's mind gives them comfort. Nothing other than theory indicates that this is more secure. It's been available for a couple of days. Give it a while and see what happens. Not like credit cards were getting fraudulent charges on them on day number 2 either.

.


This shows a lack of understanding of Apple Pay, the tokenization technology or a purposeful disregard of the information on Apple Pay that is out there. By DEFINITION Apple Pay is more secure than a normal card swipe, because no card data is transmitted to the merchant nor is any card data stored on your phone (other than last 4 digits), nor is card data stored on Apple servers. Tokenization is undoubtedly more secure than 1960s era magnetic card swipe. So EVEN IF a merchant was hacked, the hacker would get only useless tokens. As a result, its better for the merchant since you can't have massive credit card breaches like what happened with Target. This is what makes it more secure. The banking experts (which I gather you are not) all agree.
 
That's where you are wrong. Its not outrage because a store doesn't have it. Its because they have the capability and allowed it, but then decided to specifically block it. There's a big difference between don't have it, and we are specifically blocking it just because we want to.

You missed the entire point. Congratulations.

----------

This shows a lack of understanding of Apple Pay, the tokenization technology or a purposeful disregard of the information on Apple Pay that is out there. By DEFINITION Apple Pay is more secure than a normal card swipe, because no card data is transmitted to the merchant nor is any card data stored on your phone (other than last 4 digits), nor is card data stored on Apple servers. Tokenization is undoubtedly more secure than 1960s era magnetic card swipe. So EVEN IF a merchant was hacked, the hacker would get only useless tokens. As a result, its better for the merchant since you can't have massive credit card breaches like what happened with Target. This is what makes it more secure. The banking experts (which I gather you are not) all agree.

To be fair - i think his bigger point was that it's too early to tell. I'm not at all predicting doom and gloom. But I am sure every time something new was introduced as being failsafe/secure - it has been proved to be otherwise over time. And I think that was his point.
 
So is it just ApplePay and Google Wallet? Or all NFC payment systems? This ApplePay thing was meant to be more simple than other NFC payment solutions, but at the moment I'm seeing it even more complicated and at the same time not at all different from NFC payment solutions.

Glad I live in the UK. Had this for years.
 
That's where you are wrong. Its not outrage because a store doesn't have it. Its because they have the capability and allowed it, but then decided to specifically block it. There's a big difference between don't have it, and we are specifically blocking it just because we want to.

Rage because stores dont want to pay an apple tax
 
Oh the drama....

Out of all the hate talk of CurrentC, your post got my curiosity enough to check it out.

So, really, this is the big complaint? A cashier has to hit a separate button? OK, whatever....

They already do that when I have them scan a QR code on my phone for coupons if I choose to use electronic coupons. The also have to do that when I hand them paper coupons, which require them to hit several buttons.

I think they'll get over having one more button to push.

Cashiers aren't idiots. They know their machines. And, I don't see any of them likely to throw a big protest and suddenly hate their job because they got one more button to push.

I could see them getting quite annoyed at the occasional rare Apple Pay fanatic coming in and complaining that they can't pay with their Apple Pay device as they throw a tantrum and demand to make a production holding up the line because they insist that Apple must make commission on the purchase of their sustenance for their Apple lair (mother's basement).

Aside from being an electronic alternative to store cards, there is no other inherent evil to CurrentC. I don't care if Visa, MasterCard, or Apple get money when I buy groceries. I just assume they don't.

Now, the truth is finally starting to reveal itself in your objection. The apparent issue, is that it is another option to pay directly from your bank account like a debit card. So what. I've already got a Target Debit Card that pulls from my checking account, and saves me 5% on every purchase. I've also got a Target Credit Card that gives me 5% off on every purchase to use if my bank account happens to be low at the moment.

I'll gladly save 5% using a store card as opposed to paying more for the benefit of Visa, MasterCard, or Apple getting a percentage of my purchase. That's money in my pocket. No games, no rotating rewards cycles that never really pan out... immediate savings at time of purchase. Even better, with Target, I can save as much money as I feel like investing time.

I can use the Target App, and pick out several items to obtain a discount on (typically an additional 5% to 15% discount), add manufacturer coupons, then add printed store coupons, then add the 5% discount for using the Target Debit or Target Credit Card. Now we're saving some money, and it's staying in my pocket. I've seriously gone into Target using these techniques and saved $80 on $100 of merchandise, paying only $20 for that $100 of merchandise.

Yeah, give me a store card any day over supporting Apple Pay, Visa, or MasterCard.

Looking at CurrentC, it appears to simply be an electronic alternative to the Store Credit, and Store Debit Cards, which also combines built in couponing. Hardly the major evil that Apple Pay endorsers are trying to make it out to be.

Myself, I'll probably stick with my physical cards. But, making CurrentC out to be some major evil compared to Apple, I don't see it. I see an electronic equivalent of the Target model. And, the Target model saves me tons of money when I shop at Target.

I'll stick with my physical cards. But, if I were so inclined to consider paying by phone, the CurrentC looks like it offers more incentives and reasons to choose it over Apple Pay.

And, no, I am absolutely not concerned about the Cashier going all Postal because there is one more button to press. In all transactions, there are different buttons which are pressed by the Cashier at different times. Pressing the QR button is not going to necessarily be cumulative, just an alternate button to press instead of pressing the Cash button, or the Visa / MasterCard Button, or the EBT button.

I already put Cashiers through their paces sometimes when I decide to use 3 different payment methods, plus a club card, plus coupons. So, they'll live I'm sure.

CurrentC is merchant and retail focused -- its not customer focused. Yeah, you'll get some minor discounts or loyalty points or some other marketing nonsense that most people won't take advantage of. But its not being built for customer convenience. Its built for the merchants (pretending its for customer convenience and discounts). This is all about more of your shopping habits and data being spread around merchants (the opposite of the security and privacy built into Apple Pay).

Sure for maybe a moderate or low income person who cares about every single penny and getting a discount for every purchase, maybe they'll like it. But the sophisticated consumer will not like CurrentC. They won't like a direct pull from their bank accounts (particularly when it comes to refunds or returns -- because it won't be as quick as the $$ going out).
 
Because he or she can afford it and wants something to eat quickly?

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It reduces the fraud rate. And fraud comes out of the pocket of the credit card company. 0.15% for a payment method that reduces fraud is something they are very willing to pay.

There seems to be this idea that the credit card companies are actually going to be pushing to eliminate their own credit cards so that they can give up a percentage of their income to Apple. I think that's a rather limited view.

The reality, is that they know that Apple fanatics will make ridiculous impulse purchases and are willing to pay a percentage to capture those additional impulse purchases.

It is not a commitment to switch to paying a commission on all credit card purchases. It's simply a marketing gimmick as far as they're concerned. And, like any other marketing gimmick, they'll put a little money into it.

But, they're in no hurry to pay out a percentage to Apple on every sale. They'll be just as happy to collect their usual full commission on traditional credit card purchases, and we won't be seeing them trying to eliminate plastic cards anytime soon.
 
CurrentC is merchant and retail focused -- its not customer focused. Yeah, you'll get some minor discounts or loyalty points or some other marketing nonsense that most people won't take advantage of. But its not being built for customer convenience. Its built for the merchants (pretending its for customer convenience and discounts). This is all about more of your shopping habits and data being spread around merchants (the opposite of the security and privacy built into Apple Pay).

Sure for maybe a moderate or low income person who cares about every single penny and getting a discount for every purchase, maybe they'll like it. But the sophisticated consumer will not like CurrentC. They won't like a direct pull from their bank accounts (particularly when it comes to refunds or returns -- because it won't be as quick as the $$ going out).

I think I can live with being called unsophisticated if it saves me $80 on a $100 of groceries like Target's apparently greedy method of not benefiting me does.
 
I think I can live with being called unsophisticated if it saves me $80 on a $100 of groceries like Target's apparently greedy method of not benefiting me does.

Oh you really think currentC will give you an 80% discount on each purchase? Good luck with that. CurrentC is doomed to fail. Requires separate APP. You must wake your phone open APP, scan QR code. And in the end, you are sharing personal data and having cash directly pulled from your account. Yeah, sounds wonderful. No way that will be popular.
 
To be fair - i think his bigger point was that it's too early to tell. I'm not at all predicting doom and gloom. But I am sure every time something new was introduced as being failsafe/secure - it has been proved to be otherwise over time. And I think that was his point.

It's a bad point.

There is a thing your phone knows and a thing your bank knows, and the time of the transaction along with the thing your phone knows allows you to generate a "credit card number" that when passed through the networks is approved by your bank because the thing only they know unpacks it and sees that it is valid.

This format of encryption is decades-old and wildly effective, and is at the core of tokenization. What makes this even better is that even if by some method they got their hands on a token it is completely useless as once the singular transaction has been approved it is discarded and invalid. Hackers cannot collect tokens from a target database and use them to buy stuff.
 
You missed the entire point. Congratulations.

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To be fair - i think his bigger point was that it's too early to tell. I'm not at all predicting doom and gloom. But I am sure every time something new was introduced as being failsafe/secure - it has been proved to be otherwise over time. And I think that was his point.

Exactly
 
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