Rite Aid Disables Apple Pay Support After Initially Accepting Payments

[caesarp]

I'm not talking about financial security or data. I'm talking about purchase history. One of your arguments against the other form of payment was that stores can share your buying behavior. Apple pay isn't going to prevent that.

As for the second point - you've missed it again. You are speaking from today's view of the security model. However, as it keeps being pointed out to you - these models have been often later shown to not be infallible. I'm not talking about massive hacking, or anything else. I'm not talking about what can happen today. I'm talking about how historically - security has and always will be an issue. If you think that Apple pay can and never will be exploited somehow - you're naive.

The merchants will not have sufficient data in order to use your data for marketing or sell it to 3rd parties. They get way less than they do with traditional credit card sales. That's the point. As for the 2d point, YES, nothing is totally infallible. But Apple Pay is way way way way way way way way (did I say "way") better than ever swiping your magnetic stripe card. No doubt about it.

 

[flyinmac]

Your financial life is very complicated. I'm not sure how you have time to sit down with all those high level bank executives, while you're driving around transferring money by hand from bank to totally different bank so you can have the exact amount in your Target bank account that you need on your next Target shopping spree where you will put the cashiers through their paces.

Give me Apple Pay any day.

You know, that's a dramatic way of looking at it. I actually drive very little. There's hardly any reason to. I walk into a bank twice a month. Pretty unintrusive on my life. I stop at both of them 1 time each month.

Financial life is pretty simple. I know where my money is. And, I'm not on a quest to seek additional people to manage my purchases out of fear of losing money. Sounds like you got more to worry about than me.

 

[samcraig]

The merchants will not have sufficient data in order to use your data for marketing or sell it to 3rd parties. They get way less than they do with traditional credit card sales. That's the point. As for the 2d point, YES, nothing is totally infallible. But Apple Pay is way way way way way way way way (did I say "way") better than ever swiping your magnetic stripe card. No doubt about it.

Do tell me how a merchant will not have sufficient data in order to use your data for marketing. I'd love to hear your chestnut of wisdom or comprehension of how that will or won't work...

 

[tigress666]

Funny that you would assume I know nothing about Identity Theft. Yeah, the stuff on TV where they try and sell you Identity Protection... yeah that's useless.

Grabbing a credit card number doesn't lead to your identity being fully compromised. People knowing your other information is more useful. Trust me, I know. And, it's a lot harder to recover from than if they had just swiped my credit card number.

I've dealt with the federal government, numerous agencies, etc. And, got it all straightened out over time. But, it didn't start with a credit card number that someone swiped, that would have been extremely easy to correct.

It comes from someone having access to your other information. Things like social security numbers, addresses, full legal name, date of birth. That's all you need, and you're in business.

And, that information is far easier to obtain than your credit card number, I know.

I'd actually rather plaster my credit card number on every sign in town than fill out the forms that ask for your name, address, telephone number, social security, date of birth, etc.

Unfortunately, it is usually someone you have personally met, are otherwise related to, a government agency who's records were compromised, a medical record that was compromised, etc. that commits this offense.

Give me credit card fraud any day. 30 seconds and it's fixed.

I agree. I've had my ID stolen (13 cards opened in my name and 50k of credit charged to them. One card said they thought there was something weird about the application, so did they deny it? No, they gave him a card and closed it after he transferred 15k worth of credit to it! Bank of America by the way <- who I now have a valid card with). I got so frustrated that I ended up letting time take care of it (I got most of it off but some stuff I just let get taken off by being too old...). Guilty until proven innnocent, and good luck proving yourself innocent (I could go on a rant of how much BS I had to go through).

This has nothing to do with Apple Pay though as Apple Pay doesn't store any of that info in the first place and is irrelevant to the conversation. It's not going to make your ID easier to steal, it doesn't store any of that info (and btw, really all they need is your SSN... the other stuff just makes it a little easier). Oh, and btw, my SSN is not in my phone, not in my purse/wallet, and Apple Pay works just fine without it. And I strongly suggest people don't keep their SSN card with them or info on the phone unless you are needing it that day. You don't need it with you except in certain occasions and you are right, ID theft is a lot more annoying/life changing than some one stealing a CC. And all they need is that one little number. Oh, and check your credit often for new cards you didn't open.... that's really the only thing you can do to prevent it (since your SSN is stored at the Social Security office, your HR department, temp agencies. And you don't have control of how securely they store it or if some one there is not stealing IDs themselves).

Nothing you said invalidates that Apple Pay is a lot more secure than swipe and charge. How is it secure that the only secure thing about swipe and charge is it is easy to refute the charges? That's not security, that's just insurance for when it does happen. And it doesn't mean you don't have that insurance with Apple Pay either, you still will be dealing with your credit cards, not Apple.

 

[caesarp]

Right. I guess they are going to use a competing payment system based what others have said. Someone said the other payment system goes directly to your bank account (not sure about that. Sounds strange) but here's the part I bet is true: They harvest your demographics and buying preferences to advertise to you. Apple promised they would never do that.

"Pay simply. CurrentC will offer customers the freedom to pay with a variety of financial accounts, including personal checking accounts, merchant gift cards and select merchant branded credit and debit accounts."

http://www.mcx.com/

----------

Do tell me how a merchant will not have sufficient data in order to use your data for marketing. I'd love to hear your chestnut of wisdom or comprehension of how that will or won't work...

Cause when I use Apple Pay, the merchant does not get my name and address or credit card info. They only get a token and a cryptogram. They see the token associated with the item bought and the purchase amount. That's it. The token is mapped to credit card account only at the issuing bank (not at the merchant). The merchant has no ability to map tokens to a credit card user. That's the beauty of Apple Pay. People don't seem to understand it or tokenization. The merchant never even needs to know my name.

 

[flyinmac]

Not really. They banks feel its worth it because of the security with Apple Pay. Therefore they are paying less in dealing with fraud charges and re-issuing cards. No one has announced merchant payment processing rate increases as a result of Apple Pay. The transaction fees didn't go up, its just split with an additional party -- Apple.

----------



What does that have to do with Apple Pay?

Blindly missing the key word... obviously "Apple" is the common relation between iTunes and Apple Pay.

As for the credit card companies just absorbing the increase in expenses out of the kindness of their hearts because they supposedly want to donate this money to reduce credit card fraud, think again. Perhaps you were to busy drooling on Apple to notice that the transaction fees just increased.

And, they'll likely continue to increase as they usually do. Anytime they feel like they need more money, the fees increase. As do interest rates, etc. Every penny they spend in one area is being passed on to you in another area. Unless you don't allow interest to accumulate on your credit card, and you naively believe that the merchants aren't raising the cost of merchandise as the credit cards increase the cost of their transaction fees.

It's all full circle.

Anything that reduces the transaction fees for the merchant has the potential to decrease what you pay at the register. Anything that increases the costs of the credit card company will in turn come around and eventually increase the merchant's transaction fees and your interest rates, and will increase what you pay at the merchant's register.

 

[bawbac]

But why can't I make phone calls with my refrigerator. Damn why should I allow Whirlpool to dictate what I can and can't do with my refrigerator.

The intelligence level of this post says it all about rabid Apple Fanatics.
Jim Jones would be proud.

----------

Drama Queen much? Apple is not telling you to do anything at all. If you don't like the product they make and how they implement it, go elsewhere. It's simple really and yet people still can't grasp this concept. BTW, iPhone gets way more updates than any android phone does and all phones lag at around the two year mark. Stop being myopic.

Please read the post in which I replied!
Context helps explain things instead of posting a favorable view for your stance.

 

[caesarp]

Blindly missing the key word... obviously "Apple" is the common relation between iTunes and Apple Pay.

As for the credit card companies just absorbing the increase in expenses out of the kindness of their hearts because they supposedly want to donate this money to reduce credit card fraud, think again. Perhaps you were to busy drooling on Apple to notice that the transaction fees just increased.

And, they'll likely continue to increase as they usually do. Anytime they feel like they need more money, the fees increase. As do interest rates, etc. Every penny they spend in one area is being passed on to you in another area. Unless you don't allow interest to accumulate on your credit card, and you naively believe that the merchants aren't raising the cost of merchandise as the credit cards increase the cost of their transaction fees.

It's all full circle.

Anything that reduces the transaction fees for the merchant has the potential to decrease what you pay at the register. Anything that increases the costs of the credit card company will in turn come around and eventually increase the merchant's transaction fees and your interest rates, and will increase what you pay at the merchant's register.

Sure. I bet Target and Walmart will pass on any transaction fee savings directly to the consumer. Right. Keep dreaming.

Not sure what you have against Apple Pay -- a quick, convenient and secure way to use a credit card. But keep fighting the good fight.

 

[bawbac]

I know, it's rough when a manufacture drops support on a phone you just bought and refuses to push the latest iOS to your phone. Or bundles forced iAds, root kit software that's undetectable, or other lockdowns by the company just to a single phone. In addition, the awfulness that is the ecosystem of 90% useless games to entice small kids to do in app purchases.

... oh crap you were trying to say this was Andriod? Excuse me I've got a floor I have to roll around and laugh on top of If you seriously think Andriod is a dictatorship and iOS is completely open (when on most handsets it's not) well you are in for a rude awakening.

Odd post...

 

[flyinmac]

How is it secure that the only secure thing about swipe and charge is it is easy to refute the charges? That's not security, that's just insurance for when it does happen. And it doesn't mean you don't have that insurance with Apple Pay either, you still will be dealing with your credit cards, not Apple.

There is a likely assumption that if the charge comes in differently, and according to everyone here, supposedly it will.. Then the credit card company will be able to tell whether the charge was received via Apple Pay.

The presumption will be that you certainly did make that purchase, as it will be assumed that your finger print authorized it. Even if there is no fingerprint for them to actually compare it to.

On a credit card, if they ever dared to say we believe you made that purchase, I say show me the signature.

On Apple Pay, the assumption is that your fingerprint guaranteed the purchase. And, they cannot produce a copy of your fingerprint on the transaction. That is less security. Less options for later comparison. And, certainly makes it more difficult if you ever had a bank challenge whether you made that purchase or not.

So, let's say that inevitably, Apple Pay is compromised, and it will be sometime (that's a given)... then, you call your credit card company to contest, and they say "We see that you used Apple Pay" so this charge could only occur with your fingerprint on the phone. You say, I didn't authorize it, they say we don't believe you. And, you know what, you have nothing to request from them to prove you didn't do it.

With the existing credit card services, it is rare that you have to do anything more than say you didn't make the charge. But, in the past, they used to do an audit investigation.

With Apple Pay in place, if everyone believes that a transaction cannot be completed without a fingerprint, good luck convincing them that the charge was fraudulent when they see it came through Apple Pay, even if it was someone who devised an exploit to make the charge.

----------

Sure. I bet Target and Walmart will pass on any transaction fee savings directly to the consumer. Right. Keep dreaming.

Not sure what you have against Apple Pay -- a quick, convenient and secure way to use a credit card. But keep fighting the good fight.

Target already does pass on the savings. No dreaming required.

If you pay with a method that doesn't incur transaction fees with the credit card companies, you can save 5% on everything in your cart by either paying directly from your bank account (Debit), or using the store's credit.

 

[samcraig]

Sure. I bet Target and Walmart will pass on any transaction fee savings directly to the consumer. Right. Keep dreaming.

Not sure what you have against Apple Pay -- a quick, convenient and secure way to use a credit card. But keep fighting the good fight.

I think you're confusing speaking about other methods of payment or personal use cases is the same as being against Apple pay (in general).

Ultimately this thread is about a retailer choosing not to accept NFC payments. The drama in this thread over that decision is laughable.

 

[Primejimbo]

Yeah, cause Apple never does that... right....

Anyone remember iTunes? Not only does it recommend shows and music based on what you've purchased before, but they'll also constantly e-mail you with things they think you would like if you dare to give them an email address.

The junk e-mail account I have gets more advertisements from Apple than anyone else.

You can turn that off. All I get from Apple are recipes and that's it, I have yet get an email from iTunes/Apple for any of these reasons and I had iTunes for 10 years.

 

[bluestarCVO]

This is disappointing. Alienating a part of their customer base because of the form of payment they choose to use? They are turning away potential paying customers. What kind of business model is that? Where I live we have CVS, Walgreens, and Rite Aid all at the same intersection. Rite Aid definitely receives the least business by far. I myself only go in there a few times a year. Not that it will have an impact on them at all, but I will now never go in there. Apple pay is simple and secure. CurrentCrap is not.

I encourage everyone to join the many others who already have in posting their disappointment on Rite Aid's facebook page.

 

[samcraig]

This is disappointing. Alienating a part of their customer base because of the form of payment they choose to use? They are turning away potential paying customers. What kind of business model is that? Where I live we have CVS, Walgreens, and Rite Aid all at the same intersection. Rite Aid definitely receives the least business by far. I myself only go in there a few times a year. Not that it will have an impact on them at all, but I will now never go in there. Apple pay is simple and secure. CurrentCrap is not.

I encourage everyone to join the many others who already have in posting their disappointment on Rite Aid's facebook page.

Seriously? They still take credit cards and cash. How many general customers do you REALLY think they are turning away with this option of payment that was only available a few days ago?!

 

[BruiserB]

But with a driving license, I could put _my_ driving license on _her_ phone with _her_ TouchID, and if a cop stops her and wants to see that she has a valid license, she can prove she has a valid license. Well, _my_ valid license.

I'm sure something can be done, but it would have to be somewhat clever.

Well even now you could hand your wife your driver's license from your wallet and she could put it in her wallet and drive and if she is stopped by the police she could try to give it to them. I have a feeling the police would notice she doesn't match the picture.

What I would envision for an electronic DL is somehow your phone stores all of the data in encrypted/tokenized form. It could maybe display a convenience copy of your license that you could show someone, but that wouldn't be "official" as it's easy to fake a screen picture. For official uses you would make a NFC connection to the police officer's reader and your picture and info would pop up on their device accessed from the state DMV. Bars/liquor stores, etc that need to check ID's would have readers that people would scan to and again your info would be accessed from the state.

You could still probably load someone else's ID in your phone, but there could be safeguards in place allowing an ID to only be stored in one phone and you would still need to match the picture on the reader when you scan.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

Sure. I bet Target and Walmart will pass on any transaction fee savings directly to the consumer. Right. Keep dreaming.

Not sure what you have against Apple Pay -- a quick, convenient and secure way to use a credit card. But keep fighting the good fight.

Target currently DOES this. That is where the 5% savings each trip (and if you sign up this week - an extra 5% some week in November) come in.

They are passing that savings on to you.

People STILL don't care. The majority value their "points, miles, rewards, credit hits" more than they value saving 5% each and every time they shop.

I have ZERO expectations that any other merchant will pass that savings on to their customers that move to the CurrentC app and use ACH payments. But Target at least is doing it now.

That said, my Target Debit card is swipe AND enter a pin number. That is an extra layer of security. In the great hack, the Target Debit cards were not compromised. No one from what I have read, had their checking account drained because of it.

I doubt the CurrentC scan of the QR code will then require the pin number to be used.

Are they going to lock it down with a Touch ID/pin number to get into the app? (won't that be ironic) That end remains to be seen by those of us outside of the test markets.

Would I use ApplePay at Target? Yes... except right now if I want my employee discount I MUST use cash or a target card (or a gift card I didn't buy with another CC).

 

[flyinmac]

This is disappointing. Alienating a part of their customer base because of the form of payment they choose to use? They are turning away potential paying customers. What kind of business model is that? Where I live we have CVS, Walgreens, and Rite Aid all at the same intersection. Rite Aid definitely receives the least business by far. I myself only go in there a few times a year. Not that it will have an impact on them at all, but I will now never go in there. Apple pay is simple and secure. CurrentCrap is not.

I encourage everyone to join the many others who already have in posting their disappointment on Rite Aid's facebook page.

Yeah, let all the people who wouldn't go there anyway join forces and tell them that they'll not go in there if they don't support Apple Pay.

This sounds more like an agenda than anything else.

Headlines should read, Apple fanatics who consider themselves too good to shop at Rite Aid make empty threats to boycott store they don't shop at anyway.

 

[kslingo]

I think that this is the dumbest decision rite aid could have made.... Seriously if you have apple pay, you are just going to go to walgreens now and never shop at rite aid. Its all about convience now... now that you don't need to swipe your card...

 

[Sonmi451]

Wow. Check out your posts leading up to your reply on this thread.

Now look in the mirror and ask yourself the same question

Ahhhhh Tesla user..... Cool bro I get it now !

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Also, who doesn't like Tesla??

 

[samcraig]

I think that this is the dumbest decision rite aid could have made.... Seriously if you have apple pay, you are just going to go to walgreens now and never shop at rite aid. Its all about convience now... now that you don't need to swipe your card...

Again I have to ask - seriously. Is this what people are now thinking after a few days of Apple pay being available? That they will no longer shop in stores that don't offer it?

WOW

 

[Sonmi451]

You know, that's a dramatic way of looking at it. I actually drive very little. There's hardly any reason to. I walk into a bank twice a month. Pretty unintrusive on my life. I stop at both of them 1 time each month.

What reason is there to walk into a bank anymore? I think I've been to my actual credit union once in my entire life. I mean sure, 10 years ago when you had to make a deposit, but now your phone does all that.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

The gist of it is, it is currently a "bad PR" move.

They are on the defense now, and with the launch of their own CurrentC thing "near" - they aren't in the right spot to spin that positive.

IF they truly did disable NFC from google wallet and Apple Pay (leaving other contactless) because of their agreement with MCX, they have to make this sound like a positive move for the customers.

I'm not thinking of a way this can happen. It would have been easier had CurrentC launched to the masses before the last breeches were announced. BUT, now, today, there is much interest in the most secure way of doing things.

Daily I hear of people that are just done and tired of it. They are either going cash (no tracking there - gotta get them to get a card), or only using one card and canceling the rest.

So PR wise, for Rite Aid and MCX/CurrentC this isn't great. The customers dont' care about them - only about themselves.

 

[flyinmac]

I think that this is the dumbest decision rite aid could have made.... Seriously if you have apple pay, you are just going to go to walgreens now and never shop at rite aid. Its all about convience now... now that you don't need to swipe your card...

You know what determines which store I go into? The amount of time I have, compared to the size of the store, and how many things I need at that moment, and which store has all those items. Combine that to be essentially: In the time I have available at the moment, which store has everything I need, and is small enough to get in and out of in the time I have right this minute. I couldn't give a ^&%&% what payment options they offer.

If I have 5 minutes, I want a place I can go to that has everything I need right now, and is small enough for me to get through the whole store and grab everything I need and be back in my car in 5 minutes. The only thing I care with regards to payment, is that they accept some form of payment that most people commonly have on them.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

What reason is there to walk into a bank anymore? I think I've been to my actual credit union once in my entire life. I mean sure, 10 years ago when you had to make a deposit, but now your phone does all that.

HA, i've never been in mine - they have one branch in Texas. I'll stop there if I ever drive thru San Antonio. But they are AMAZING on the phone. AMAZING.

My local credit union? Not so much by comparison.

 

[BruiserB]

Thanks for putting cashiers thru their paces, we LOVE people like you.

You sir are..... You just are.

The line I'm talking about isn't between me personally wanting to use Apple pay! but between the CurrentC clan and Visa/MC/Amex merchant fees.

Oh interesting that you have a target debit card yet are spewing all sorts of privacy things an d only dealing with local CC people you can talk to. You will give them access to ACH your checking account, but protect your Info so much.

I'm confused.

For the record. I have a 6. I've been to McDs and didn't use Apple pay - haven't yet at all.

Oh, and I'm a cashier at Target having to convince people daily they need a red card. MOST people won't do it, not even for 5% off each trip. Their miles OR privacy OR credit hit is more important to them. My store manager "talked" to me about getting RCs 4 times on Wednesday in my 4 hour closing shift. Because we didn't have enough for the day.... Only had 6 sign up.

I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to speak as to the hell the cashiers lives will become on ce More stores jump on the "use. CurrentC and let us debit your checking account" bandwagon. That is what I was talking about.

As to having to push special buttons for coupons or carthwheel - no we don't, they just scan. Someone further up was mentioning about the CurrentC thing just working. It doesn't at Target right now, it does require the cashier to push a button before scanning. It also apparently does your cartwheel and employee discount in one scan, which is nice.

I will continue to use my Debit red card and my separate cartwheel app. I don't trust he security of the CurrentC for payment. I might use it for loyalty stuff, but I'm not doing any other "debit cards" (which at target require you to give your SS# despite there not being a credit check).

This is off topic, but I've gotta say that Target seems to have one of the most messed up mobile strategies of any company. Why on earth do they have a Target app which stores electronic coupons, and then a Cartwheel app that stores discounts, and the Target app used to store gift cards, but now it links you to an external webpage with a different login from your normal Target account?

You can store your Cartwheel code in Passbook, and you can store the coupons from the Target app in Passbook, but on different tabs. But then you cannot store your gift card in Passbook!. So at checkout you need to show screens from two different apps (or two tabs in Passbook) and then switch to a Safari screen to pay with an electronic gift card or run your physical RedCard through a reader!!!! It's insanity every time I go through checkout and I'm always paranoid I'm going to forget something. It has to be insane for the cashiers as well, having to explain things to the customers.

Couldn't Target just have one app with both coupons and Cartwheel discounts and then allow you to link it to your RedCard??? Then at checkout you could just swipe your RedCard and all Coupons/Cartwheel Discounts/5% back would all be applied instantly? It feels like there are completely different teams working on the different programs at Target and they don't have a unified approach to anything!