Rockstar explains why PS3 is better.

[echeck]

What I'd really do, is if it really is holding them back, why not just make the game HDD ONLY? Then the people who bought the core system will have to buy the HDD just to play the game.

I agree, that would alleviate a lot of their problems, but do you think it would cut in to sales of the game too much?

I think HDD only games is where we're going to be in the future, simply because games are becoming so demanding. If everything was on a disk (whether it's Blu-Ray, HD DVD, etc...) you will still have painful load times, and I hate waiting for load times.

 

[Chone]

I agree, that would alleviate a lot of their problems, but do you think it would cut in to sales of the game too much?

I think HDD only games is where we're going to be in the future, simply because games are becoming so demanding. If everything was on a disk (whether it's Blu-Ray, HD DVD, etc...) you will still have painful load times, and I hate waiting for load times.

But then you'd have to wait for install times or have a solution similar to "Games for Vista" enabled games where you can play right away but it will be choppy for a few hours of play.

Install times are great, they just build up your excitement for a game but I'm sure many people would just loathe them.

 

[pseudobrit]

Ha ha ha! I don't even know how to respond to such a ridiculous comment.

You're not supposed to. It's ridiculous to be complaining that the price of a luxury item is too high. Especially when it's too high because it has luxuries you don't want.

I'm sick of people pissing on Macs for carrying a premium price tag (or saying they do when it's not true) and Apple for not lowering their prices every three weeks when something new comes out that isn't in the current systems. Buy it or don't, just don't act like the company has insulted you.

I'd like to state my input on what Rockstar has said. Both consoles have their strong points and weak points. BUT, Rockstar has stated that the main thing holding them back is the HDD on the Xbox360. What I'd really do, is if it really is holding them back, why not just make the game HDD ONLY? Then the people who bought the core system will have to buy the HDD just to play the game.

That's a good idea. Then people who would never have bought GTA IV anyway will be able to bash Rockstar for forcing anyone with a Core system to buy a hard drive.

 

[michaelltd]

That's a good idea. Then people who would never have bought GTA IV anyway will be able to bash Rockstar for forcing anyone with a Core system to buy a hard drive.

Eh, so what?

I think that's what should happen. I also think Microsoft needs to discontinue the Core System altogether.

EDIT: And I believe, then, that if this is to happen then there should be some kind of deal where you can get a discount on an HDD with the game purchase.

 

[Sparky8]

uhmm, we did answer his points . He just made ridiculous claims like "the Wii is the new Cube", laughable comparisons between systems, topped off with an unusual way of replying sort of discredits what he says and his attempts at arguments really.

If you can provide me with credible 3rd party support for the wii then i'll stop discussing this. Ive provided you with credible reasoning, you haven't.

 

[r1ch4rd]

Eh, so what?

I think that's what should happen. I also think Microsoft needs to discontinue the Core System altogether.

EDIT: And I believe, then, that if this is to happen then there should be some kind of deal where you can get a discount on an HDD with the game purchase.

Since everyone is talking about price and value for money, I think that the xbox 360 core may actually be the worst offender. If you want to save your games (which I think we can agree is a neccessity) then the core system plus a memory card is £210 on amazon.co.uk. With that you still don't get a wireless controller, a way to get Hi-Def to your TV and you can't use XBox Live. For another £50 you can get all of that in the premium system and £50 is less than the cost of the 20gb hard disc. It seems to me that the premium is too good of a deal to pass up (compared to the core system).

 

[0098386]

If you can provide me with credible 3rd party support for the wii then i'll stop discussing this. Ive provided you with credible reasoning, you haven't.

I tried looking for the news post on Kotaku/Joystiq anc can't find it. Thing is in January out studio put an order on for a single Wii development kit (just like other devs we waited to see what the impact of the Wii would be like, and it was too big to just ignore), only to get weekly emails saying they don't have enough stock. Some time around mid-April we got one. Games sites early in the year ran articles about independent developers not being able to get developer kits as big studios were fighting tooth and nail for them.

edit: found it.

regrettably informs them that the Wii Independent Developer Program is "on hold" until the end of February due to the overwhelming demand generated from the major third party publishers.

 

[takao]

If you can provide me with credible 3rd party support for the wii then i'll stop discussing this. Ive provided you with credible reasoning, you haven't.

hmm well recently the wii had quite a bunch of third party releases comapred to the first 2 months


you know how many games got in released in Japan for the Ps3 since the 01.01.07 ? .. 7
and how many are going to be released until end of july from now on ? 4
including first party games

last release: 3 weeks ago
next release: 6 weeks from now in mid june
9 weeks breaks between releases doesn't sound like awesome support either

luckily it looks better here with 8 upcoming ps3 games until end of june
11 for the wii
13 for the xbox 360

OMG the huge differences
(i used the upcoming lists of the local gamestore who always post them excluding imports and special editions)
obvious winner was of course the DS who has like as much as all others combined up until may

 

[fiercetiger224]

I agree, that would alleviate a lot of their problems, but do you think it would cut in to sales of the game too much?

I think HDD only games is where we're going to be in the future, simply because games are becoming so demanding. If everything was on a disk (whether it's Blu-Ray, HD DVD, etc...) you will still have painful load times, and I hate waiting for load times.

I don't think it'll cut into the sales of the game too much, just because people who want GTAIV will buy it to play it. It's just Microsoft's stupid marketing that we have to deal with multiple SKUs. Non-standardized HARDWARE specifications, etc. Is the 360 becoming more like a computer? Psh...At least Sony learned and pulled the 20 GB from the market. The Core 360 and the 20 GB PS3 are just marketing ploys to make it seem cheaper than it really is.

Anyway, back on topic. I definitely agree with you on the HDD issue. It's definitely where the future is at. Eventually developers will make big uses of the HDD to cache data on the fly, and make use of both the disc drive and HDD. It'll be much more seamless that way, if done correctly. As for GTAIV, it's more important than ever that it makes use of both the disc drive and HDD. If everyone remembers, every GTA game on the PS2 streamed data on the fly. It wasn't all loaded up into memory. But since we've got an an enormous amount of graphics involved, the HDD is faster transferring data than an optical disc drive is.

 

[0098386]

On topic, I think the Elite should drop to the Premium price and do away with the other 2 SKUs and call it a day. I remember having a little giggle when they announced such varying SKUs. But hell with the mark up on them HDD's they're probably rolling in it too much to pull the Core model.

 

[Coded-Dude]

Price is not on topic Jimmi........

I'm 26, married with a 17 month old son. I also own a real estate investment company and am doing very well financially. I am neither cheap nor poor, but I am responsible with my money, which is why I am where I am today.

So, please, don't call me a bastard.

So, you've made you're budget and your decision(Wii)...so what do you have to gain by complaining about the PS3's price?
You made financial decision based on what you want out of your purchase and PS3 didn't fit the bill, thats fine, that does NOT automatically means its too expensive.

Most everyone here agrees that considering EVERYTHING it has, the PS3 is value-priced.

This topic is NOT why PS3 is better for the consumer, but I see we still can't seem to stay off that topic. Is it really that hopeless to avoid a dead horse?
Development companies are starting to see the value in the capacity PS3 offers. THIS IS JUST THE BEGINING! It will only become more apparent as time goes on.

 

[Sparky8]

Gamespot highest rated wii games:
Zelda OOT-Nintendo
Super Paper Mario-Nintendo
Zelda TP-Nintendo
Super Mario World-Nintendo
Zelda A Link to the Past-Nintendo
Madden-EA
Super Mario Bros-Nintendo
Monkey Ball-Sega
Gunstar-Sega

PS3 higest rated games
RFOM-SCEA
Tekken-Namco
NHL-2K
Virtua Tennis-Sega
Fight Night-EA
Marvel-Activision
COD3-Activision
Tiger Woods-EA Sports
NBA-2K Sports

What are wii owners looing forward too? Mario Kart, SSB, metroid, mario Galaxy, Animal Crossing etc.

figures speak for themselves, there isnt enough quality 3rd party games for the wii to really challenge n the long run. Ive looked at the upcoming releases and there isnt much this year.

 

[Coded-Dude]

Super Mario Galaxy, if it even arrives this year.....

 

[0098386]

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=7974:JP&sid=aXvRwZ3iOQw4

April 27 (Bloomberg) -- Nintendo Co., the world's biggest maker of handheld game players, said it's developing 45 software titles for the Wii console, a device that helped drive profit sevenfold in the past quarter.

The company is also developing 79 games for the two-year-old DS portable player, President Satoru Iwata said at news conference in Tokyo today. The next batch of games will be introduced to the market at the end of "summer,'' he said.

Nintendo have also mentioned there will be a tidal wave (I believe the description was) by late 2007. And that's just Nintendo. 3rd party dev support surge in early 2007 will most certainly stride past the number of games from Nintendo alone.

 

[0098386]

*list*

I'm sorry, but what does that list prove? That Nintendo consoles and games are selling by their bucket loads and retaining the highest sales? Well jolly gee, could it not be because they're headed by the only dev to get 3 platinum scores in Famitsu magazine, or the only 1st part dev to get knighted (or whatever that French award was)?

I keep forgetting that the highest rated current gen game (Twilight Princess) and the best game ever (OoT) are available for the same system. oh wait, no I don't but the list does point that out. So it has them 2, plus Smash Bros, Day of Disaster (I wonder if that will include the PS3 launch?), Mario Galaxy and Prime 3 coming out... Remind me why I need anything else?

 

[echeck]

So, you've made you're budget and your decision(Wii)...so what do you have to gain by complaining about the PS3's price?

My comments were directed solely at Chone's statement (since recanted) about how he couldn't see any possible situation where someone that could afford a Wii couldn't afford a PS3. I wasn't saying the PS3 is priced too high for everyone, not once did I generalize my statements. I was very clear in that it was priced too high for me.

Everyone got so defensive and assumed I was generalizing my comments, which I wasn't. I was simply showing how someone that could afford a Wii couldn't necessarily afford a PS3, simple as that. No big deal.

Development companies are starting to see the value in the capacity PS3 offers. THIS IS JUST THE BEGINING! It will only become more apparent as time goes on.

Obviously when the "format war" is over for the next generation of disk storage (hopefully Blu-Ray), every system will eventually incorporate it, just as they did with DVD. But I'm still with fiercetiger in that HDDs are the real future. We will soon buy a console game, install it on our console HDD and then be able to play it.

If Sony and the PS3 can pioneer this marriage of seamless use of HDD and optical, then that's great, and it's great for everyone else.

 

[Coded-Dude]

My apologies, that was not a direct attack on you. It seems that most people who do complain about the price do usually have trouble coming up with such an amount. I saw your comment, and though if you can afford it why complain? It was a natural reaction.

HDD's are a far more expensive solution(currently) to produce and support.
Until its cheaper than optical, it will remain an optional alternative(for some)

Sony......? Pioneer.....? Surely they stole this idea form someone else! They are teh copiers! /sarcasm

 

[Demetrio OS]

computer and videogames

I guess next-gen solutions are necessary after all.....

And how did bethesda pull if off with out the need of a hard drive and only one DVD??

 

[Coded-Dude]

um......compression?

btw - the graphical advances made on PS3 Oblivion will be available on 360 as well
(but you'll need a HDD - DOH!)

 

[Markleshark]

Rome: Total War is pretty damn awesome mind. I'm usually not interested in the genre too!

Going back to the "can afford a Wii, can't afford a PS3" bit, I'm still aghast at Chone for saying that. Especially the "long term cost" idea. Do you live in a world where you're born with all your money at once? Because where I'm from you get a wage, so you can buy a cheap console and spend thousands on games over a series of 4-8 years without any problem at all. But when a system costs 3 times as much, take however long it took you to save for a Wii (providing you have a mortage/rent to pay, food, student or any other kind of loan to pay off, kids to feed, car to afford, council tax, useful things to buy) and multiply that by 3.
Of course if you are living with your parents and have a well paid job, then you're on easy (sad?) street.

Right now I can't even afford a Wii, I didn't even buy one myself, its the family console in the living room. Again, I'm not 14 and sponging off my parents I'm in full time education in a very expensive country.
Lecture me on how I should pay for a PS3 some more.

Quoted for truth.

It is beyond me how anyone can say 'Well, if you can afford a Wii you have no reason not to be able to afford a Piss3' that is stupid, maybe you do actually need to step back for a second and think about how stupid that sounds.

um......compression?

btw - the graphical advances made on PS3 Oblivion will be available on 360 as well
(but you'll need a HDD - DOH!)

And I'm guessing that would be because you can't magically download and store stuff on this DVD that has already been printed. Would I be right? Or do you think they can just store these extras in the air inside the console?

However, if I am getting in on the argument, I might as well do it properly. We have a PS3 setup at work, it's actually managed to save us £1000's a year. Because with the heat that thing gives off, we've been able to get rid of our full heating system, so have next door. (Seriously, if you aint been near a switched on PS3, it's mental!).

Also, far from price, you just need to hold the controller to get a feel of how things are going to go down hill from here onwards. It has about as much feel as Tara Palmer Tompkinson's breasts. No rumble, light like you wouldn't believe.

Then, you have to switch it on with those stupid buttons on the front. THEN, when it locks up and you need to reset it, oh, no, you can't do that. It's like launching a nuke trying to get it to turn off then back on again. So much that I was wondering where we had to insert the keys simultaneously... Press and hold this, wait till it beeps... FFS!!

Anyway, have a nice day.

 

[Coded-Dude]

And I'm guessing that would be because you can't magically download and store stuff on this DVD that has already been printed. Would I be right? Or do you think they can just store these extras in the air inside the console?

Yes, thank you for pointing out the ORIGINAL TOPIC at hand

However, if I am getting in on the argument, I might as well do it properly.

I can bash the 360 and the Wii just as easiler as can bash the PS3....apparently you, like others,
have problem reading. This is not why its better for the consumer, but why its better for devs.

 

[Markleshark]

Yes, thank you for pointing out the ORIGINAL TOPIC at hand

Ah you see, but I have.

Because I pointed out reasons the PS3, isnt better. The topic doesn't say 'In terms of price, consoles sold, and the amount of games being shipped Rockstar explains why the PS3 is better' now, does it?

Also, your thread title doesn't have the word 'devs' anywhere near it.

 

[Coded-Dude]

well, had MS decided to put the HDD in boht SKU's every owner could enjoy these updates, not just "elite" 360 users.
Options are always better than no options, and devs prefer options.

Maybe its neede this time, maybe its not, but at leaast you have the OPTION available to ALL users.

 

[Markleshark]

well, had MS decided to put the HDD in boht SKU's every owner could enjoy these updates, not just "elite" 360 users.
Options are always better than no options, and devs prefer options.

Maybe its neede this time, maybe its not, but at leaast you have the OPTION available to ALL users.

You should prolly use 'all SKU's' instead of 'both SKU's' (With there now being 3, and all) and also "Elite" isnt reallyyyyyy the right word to use, since of course the Elite and Premium systems of course both come with the HDD.

However, I can't help but think your first statement contradicts its self. First you say they should have put the HDD in all the systems so all the owners can enjoy the updates, then you say options are better than no options.

However, I'd be willing to put a fairly good guess on the amount of people with Xbox Live Gold and the Amount of people with A Premium (or Elite) console stacks up, and the people without Xbox Live Gold and the people with a core system, also stacks up. Of course I'm not saying it'll be 100% the same, but I'd be willing to say there will be a correlation.

Also, slow down with your typing a little.

 

[Sparky8]

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=7974:JP&sid=aXvRwZ3iOQw4

Nintendo have also mentioned there will be a tidal wave (I believe the description was) by late 2007. And that's just Nintendo. 3rd party dev support surge in early 2007 will most certainly stride past the number of games from Nintendo alone.

Games such as? Dont just give me software numbers because its likely that more are in development for the other next gen consoles, give me actual titles which people will want. Like Assassins Creed, GTA, Devil may Cry. 3rd party games that will make me want to buy a console.

I'm sorry, but what does that list prove? That Nintendo consoles and games are selling by their bucket loads and retaining the highest sales? Well jolly gee, could it not be because they're headed by the only dev to get 3 platinum scores in Famitsu magazine, or the only 1st part dev to get knighted (or whatever that French award was)?

I keep forgetting that the highest rated current gen game (Twilight Princess) and the best game ever (OoT) are available for the same system. oh wait, no I don't but the list does point that out. So it has them 2, plus Smash Bros, Day of Disaster (I wonder if that will include the PS3 launch?), Mario Galaxy and Prime 3 coming out... Remind me why I need anything else?

It proves firstly that Nintendo, like with the cube (which you didn't recognize) are again solely relying on in house support for their console. Without AAA 3rd party games there wont be enough diversity for gamers to want to buy the console and there wont be enough quality games being released. Short term success now doesn't guarantee that in 1 years time when the PS3 is established, lower in price with some quality AAA titles, that people are going to choose the Wii on price point alone.

Again youve simply proven my point that all they have at the moment is the usual games, it matters because there are other gamers with different tastes who unlike you are not satisfied by Metroid 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and Super Duper Mario Bros and Sisters 5

Peter Molyneux was recently given the same honour by France

Markleshark: have you read the article about the PS3 killing the 360 on 1UP? Brilliantly written. heat given off by the PS3 brings about the ring of death on the 360 lol