Chundles
macrumors G5
Nope, you'll only get a free upgrade to 10.5 if you buy a computer after they announce the release date. Last time it was two weeks I think.
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Rosetta Improvements in 10.4.8, Leopard Build 9A303, Vista Release?
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Nope, you'll only get a free upgrade to 10.5 if you buy a computer after they announce the release date. Last time it was two weeks I think.
stockscalper
macrumors 6502a
My experience has been that non universal applications run much much faster under 10.4.8 and they load faster too. Before the upgrade Word bounced 10 to 12 times before starting and now it's down to 2 or 3 bounces. Everything is much crisper and has a faster feel to it under 10.4.8. This was one upgrade where I could tell a big difference; most upgrades you can't unless they're fixing some bug.
prady16
macrumors 6502
Ah....Damn....But Leopard will include iLife '07 right? I hope they also add iWork '07 as a freebie along with Leopard! I would love to start using iWork, but an imminent update is holding me back from my purchase.
Chundles
macrumors G5
Here's my reckoning.
It's running an application that was never built to run on X86 processors at comparable speeds to the processors on which the program was built to run.
That's damned impressive if you ask me. Even before when it was slow it was still amazing to me, especially after the deathly slow experience that was Virtual PC on the Mac. Sure, it was emulating an entire OS but the decrease in speed was massive - a 2GHz G5 became a 733MHz PIII under Virtual PC...
The 2nd core makes a huge difference to Rosetta, let me tell you. As someone trying to run Office on a Core Solo mini the difference between it and a Core Duo MacBook 1.83Ghz is like light and day.
Time to upgrade my mini to Core 2 Duo I think! 🙂
stockscalper
macrumors 6502a
Leopard versus Vista
Leopard will be awhile, likely spring 2007 as has been previously posted. Remember, we're only at 10.4.8 and there's room for one more upgrade before the new OS comes out 😉
Apple doesn't have to worry about meeting the Vista timeline. For one thing, Vista hasn't met a deadline yet on time. For another, when it does come out it's only going to be roughly equivilent of Jaguar and and what we have now is far superior.
Leopard will be awhile, likely spring 2007 as has been previously posted. Remember, we're only at 10.4.8 and there's room for one more upgrade before the new OS comes out 😉
Apple doesn't have to worry about meeting the Vista timeline. For one thing, Vista hasn't met a deadline yet on time. For another, when it does come out it's only going to be roughly equivilent of Jaguar and and what we have now is far superior.
Chundles
macrumors G5
No. No version of OSX has ever come with iLife for free. All new Macs purchased after the release of iLife '07 will come with it pre-installed. All new Macs after Leopard is released will come with iLife '07 and Leopard pre-installed because Leopard is going to be released a few months after iLife '07.
If you want both for free you'll have to buy a new Mac after both have been released. If you buy now you'll have (well, nobody's compelling you) to fork out for iLife '07 and Leopard, if you buy after MWSF you'll have to pay for Leopard (assuming it's not also released at MWSF, I highly doubt it) and if you buy after Leopard is released you'll get them both for free.
But to reiterate, iLife is a separate purchase to OSX, the boxed copy of 10.5 will not include iLife. iLife is only free on new Macs.
I spoke to two techs at PC World computer superstore (biggest computer retailer in UK) two weeks ago about monitor compatibility with my G4 Mac Mini. Turned out both these guys owned Intel Macs, folks pay $$$$ to have their PCs fixed by these guys😛 . Anyway I mentioned I was waiting till Leopard to upgrade my Mac. One of the guys mentioned they'd already got the date for when Intel Mac Mini's with Leopard will be in store. Wait for it... April 2007🙁 . It seems unlikely that Leopard will pounce onto our screens in January.
Chundles
macrumors G5
Well, one, they really don't know the date. Nobody does yet, probably not even Apple down to the actual day. And two, Steve himself said Leopard wouldn't be shipping until at least the northern Spring so there shouldn't be any speculation about a January release.
We'll get an all-singing, all-dancing preview of Leopard at MWSF combined with (I think) the iTV launch - or at least a bigger preview and the announcement of a shipping date and proper name - the release of iLife '07 which always takes a long time, a freshly updated iWork suite and maybe an addition to the iPod line.
Aside from the Mac Pro and the Mac mini there aren't any available upgrade paths for the Mac until April next year with the Santa Rosa chipset so I don't see any major Mac-related news for MWSF. It'll be all about the consumer electronics and Apple moving into the living room.
rtdunham
macrumors 6502a
maybe apple's next ad campaign (re: a different thread here) should be one touting the OS's various innovative features. If they're familiar to viewers, they'll be seen as copycat features they are, and not as great new components.
freebooter
macrumors 65816
I wasn't surprised to read that Rosetta is faster than before. My recent upgrade from PPC 1.42 GHz to Intel 2.16 Ghz has made Photoshop fly. I don't really give a rat's hindquarters about Leopard (unless it's faster/more stable), but I am kinda excited about a UB PS.
Those guy's don't actually know anything, Apple hasn't announced anything other than "Spring 2007". However April sounds right to me. People thinking its coming in January are in for a shock, given how buggy the Leopard builds are rigt now its pretty unlikely that Leopard will be out any sooner than April.
Personally I'd like Apple to wait until Leopard is ready to release it, rather than release a bug ridden piece of crap like 10.4(.0) arguably was.
I agree
I only have 1 GB with my MacPro. Excel & Word only run slowly if I'm also running Parallels Desktop for Mac at the same time. Add in FireFox & you'll find out how slow virtual memory can be big time.
At those time I'm not sure I can wait until those FB DIMMs come down in price to a more reasonable, affordable level.
Bill the TaxMan
I only have 1 GB with my MacPro. Excel & Word only run slowly if I'm also running Parallels Desktop for Mac at the same time. Add in FireFox & you'll find out how slow virtual memory can be big time.
At those time I'm not sure I can wait until those FB DIMMs come down in price to a more reasonable, affordable level.
Bill the TaxMan
No. Rosetta is a binary translator. It's not an emulator. It's still impressive work.
jsw
Moderator emeritus
Before you do, keep in mind that the OS is pretty buggy at this point, and while you'll get a peek at a number of new things, you need to be prepared to wipe the whole drive/partition and reinstall relatively frequently, so the membership is pretty steep if all you want is a look.
Of course, you do get Leopard included in the price (when it's released), OS X Server, and some other goodies, but if you just want a sneak peek, you're better off waiting for the release.
Well Rosetta works fine, in my opinion.. but the only thing I have to compare it to is how fast the PPC apps ran on a 900MHz G4 w/ 1gb PC100 RAM.
If you really want speed, then just buy an old Mac IIci, drop a 40MHz accelerator chip in it, max out the RAM, and run Office/Photoshop/etc under Mac System 6.
That rig runs neck snapping fast.
Check it out!
Years ago I remember thinking how fast computers would be in the future.. I imagined that with all the speed improvements, etc that by 2000 we'd have some wicked fast computers with instant boots, and applications that launched as fast as you could click.
Well the computers sure did get fast.. but the software and OS'es just got more and more bloated. You need a faster computer to run the newest software at the same speed as the old software on the old computer.
And in some cases, as the link shows.. not nearly as fast.
If you really want speed, then just buy an old Mac IIci, drop a 40MHz accelerator chip in it, max out the RAM, and run Office/Photoshop/etc under Mac System 6.
That rig runs neck snapping fast.
Check it out!
Years ago I remember thinking how fast computers would be in the future.. I imagined that with all the speed improvements, etc that by 2000 we'd have some wicked fast computers with instant boots, and applications that launched as fast as you could click.
Well the computers sure did get fast.. but the software and OS'es just got more and more bloated. You need a faster computer to run the newest software at the same speed as the old software on the old computer.
And in some cases, as the link shows.. not nearly as fast.
KindredMAC
macrumors 6502a
I'll tell ya, the price of the Mac Pro RAM is an absolute outcry.
That is the ONLY thing stopping me from updating my Power Mac G5 for a while now. Once that RAM comes down, I will look more closely at updating.
My First Post
Hey guys, although I've been a daily reader of Macrumors (and its forums) for about 3 years now I've never actually posted anything before (mostly because my views and thoughts are usually already expressed by members).
Anyway, I thought I'd actually add my 2 cents to this thread.
Although I would love to see Leopard released in MWSF I highly doubt it. What you have to remember is that Apple has been getting a lot of press coverage this year from the media. More and more reporters are coming to Apple's Media Events so they don't need to release Leopard in MWSF to steal the thunder from Vista's release. All they need to do is give a spectacular demo of OS 10.5 with all the "secret features" either at MWSF or shortly afterwards at a Special Media Event. If these "secret features" are in any way revolutionary (or really really cool) the media will eat it up and will focus a lot of their Tech News on Leopard in relation to Vista (instead of Vista vs. Tiger like they did this year). Vista will look like its 4 years behind Mac OS just from a FULL demo of Leopard even if they don't officially release it till April. Apple can do the "secret features" demo, make all the press fall in love with Leopard and then spend the next 2 months putting the final touches on everything while the media talks about how superior Leopard will be to Vista. And on top of that they will be talking about the newly released iTV, iPhone, etc... so Apple will be getting a LOT of press coverage in the beginning of 2007. It will be Apple's year not Vista's so they don't need to release it early. I do think they will release it around end of February/early March though.
Hey guys, although I've been a daily reader of Macrumors (and its forums) for about 3 years now I've never actually posted anything before (mostly because my views and thoughts are usually already expressed by members).
Anyway, I thought I'd actually add my 2 cents to this thread.
Although I would love to see Leopard released in MWSF I highly doubt it. What you have to remember is that Apple has been getting a lot of press coverage this year from the media. More and more reporters are coming to Apple's Media Events so they don't need to release Leopard in MWSF to steal the thunder from Vista's release. All they need to do is give a spectacular demo of OS 10.5 with all the "secret features" either at MWSF or shortly afterwards at a Special Media Event. If these "secret features" are in any way revolutionary (or really really cool) the media will eat it up and will focus a lot of their Tech News on Leopard in relation to Vista (instead of Vista vs. Tiger like they did this year). Vista will look like its 4 years behind Mac OS just from a FULL demo of Leopard even if they don't officially release it till April. Apple can do the "secret features" demo, make all the press fall in love with Leopard and then spend the next 2 months putting the final touches on everything while the media talks about how superior Leopard will be to Vista. And on top of that they will be talking about the newly released iTV, iPhone, etc... so Apple will be getting a LOT of press coverage in the beginning of 2007. It will be Apple's year not Vista's so they don't need to release it early. I do think they will release it around end of February/early March though.
Universal MS Office
Remember this is MS. They take longer to do their programming. When they brought out Mac Office X all they really did was change Office Mac 98 for OS 9 to an OS 10 native version. The upgrade din't come until Mac Office 2004. This is to insure that Mac Office trails Windows Office by some time.
This time around they're going to skip that intermediate step & convert & update at the same time. This takes time. Also they have a stated reply that they will not come out with the Universal Mac Office 2007 until 6-8 months after the Windows Office 2007 is out. They say this is to help insure compatibility between the Mac & Windows versions. Since the Mac Unit can have inter-company information about what it takes to be compatible, we must actually add several months to that time.
Adobe is following the same course. They are also rolling the change to Universal into their next scheduled upgrade.
For most things MS Office we may be better off keeping our G3, G4 or G5 Macs for those things or run MS Office under Rosetta. MS Office Mac 2007 will have many changes in looks, operation & file format. This will cause a learning curve that may scare a lot of MS Office users away from updating/upgrading to the newest version.
Unlike most Adobe User's that are waiting for an Universal Version to speed things up, Mac MS Office User's are eager for the Universal version of Office, they are not so sure about the program changes. I've used Windows Office 2007 & am not fond abut how much screen it wastes.
Bill the TaxMan
Remember this is MS. They take longer to do their programming. When they brought out Mac Office X all they really did was change Office Mac 98 for OS 9 to an OS 10 native version. The upgrade din't come until Mac Office 2004. This is to insure that Mac Office trails Windows Office by some time.
This time around they're going to skip that intermediate step & convert & update at the same time. This takes time. Also they have a stated reply that they will not come out with the Universal Mac Office 2007 until 6-8 months after the Windows Office 2007 is out. They say this is to help insure compatibility between the Mac & Windows versions. Since the Mac Unit can have inter-company information about what it takes to be compatible, we must actually add several months to that time.
Adobe is following the same course. They are also rolling the change to Universal into their next scheduled upgrade.
For most things MS Office we may be better off keeping our G3, G4 or G5 Macs for those things or run MS Office under Rosetta. MS Office Mac 2007 will have many changes in looks, operation & file format. This will cause a learning curve that may scare a lot of MS Office users away from updating/upgrading to the newest version.
Unlike most Adobe User's that are waiting for an Universal Version to speed things up, Mac MS Office User's are eager for the Universal version of Office, they are not so sure about the program changes. I've used Windows Office 2007 & am not fond abut how much screen it wastes.
Bill the TaxMan
Stridder44
macrumors 68040
A second? Are you sure it's not faster? Because it goes that fast for me and Im on an old G4 iMac....oh wait. This is rosetta we're talking about. Even still, I'd imagine it's MUCH faster for you guys with your Intel iMacs, even if rosetta is a factor.
On my Powerbook, opening after restart all roughly 20 standard applications which I keep always running already brings the RAM consumption to over 1.1 GB. If you do not want to resign yourself to running only a handfull applications at a time 1 GB is not enough, 1.5 GB will do if you run only one big app at a time. If you want to run Rosetta better get 2 GB or more or run Rosetta and nothing else.
Maccus Aurelius
macrumors 6502a
On my core duo 2GHz 1GB RAM MB, Word can take 10-12 seconds before actually bringing up the project gallery window. now, this won't take that long again so long as i dont reboot my computer, but after word is up, it begins to lag to the point when it takes slightly longer to respond to my keystrokes. it can actually be frustrating when writing really long papers. I plan on getting more RAM, hopefully that'll do the trick.
Office 2004 runs great on my 15" C2D MBP! I use my previous computer, a 1GHZ 12" PowerBook, as a reference.