Rumor Suggests New Apple TV 4K With A12X Chip is 'Ready to Ship'

[Wolfpup]

You can use the aluminum remote right now on the current model Apple TV 4K. Works fine, although stuff like skip forward or back 15 sec is missing. You have to FF/RW manually to the spot you want. Also, scrubbing is done only via FF/RW of course.

My preferred remote would thus be something like the aluminum remote with say a Touch Bar for scrubbing.

Yikes....you can’t jump back 15 seconds or whatever without a Siri remote?!?

that applies to IR remotes too? Because that’s a deal killer for me. I need jump back, and I can’t use the Siri remote for multiple reasons, so was planning on using some other IR remotes with it.

We would have to wait until a 2021 iPad Pro to see how much better it is than the 2020 edition. The current benchmarks point towards an iPad Pro 2020 roughly similar to the top SKU 28w MacBook Pro 13". Apple said the A12x CPU in the 2018 iPad Pro was roughly analogous to the Xbox One S (the rebadged original Xbox One which is about to become 2 generations behind.

Remember the 2020 edition of the iPad Pro merely has slightly better GPU grunt (perhaps 10-12% better due to the 8th activated GPU core) - so in effect Apple are releasing an Xbox One/PS4 class machine, probably pricing it at $200 as per the existing AppleTV, and marketing it as the streaming box which can also play games. Granted, these games will probably be upscaled for 4k TVs that are prevalent these days but that's the sort of thing that you really want the 6Gb of RAM that the 2018 iPad Pro SoC is capable of.

I wouldn't expect AAA games to show up on the AppleTV - no way would we see ports from PC versions - but if Apple went and bought a good independent developer - like Microsoft ironically did with Mac developer Bungie for Halo - they could have the makings of a decent platform. There's already some good games on the iOS platform which would be closer to making to leap across.

In this day and age if Apple crack the cheap multiplayer market they'd have a good chance of getting some traction - you can't expect them to persuade AAA games developers to spend time porting games over to a relatively weedy and very alien platform.

Getting the A14x anywhere close to Xbox One X or PS4 Pro performance would be great - nobody should expect that CPU to beat the cutting edge AMD SoC that will end up in the Xbox One Series X or PS5. Apple's difference ought to be the ecosystem and decent games library.



Cracking idea - I like it. And an app version would be great too.

I know Apple claimed that, but I’ve yet to see anything on iOS come remotely close to what an Xbox 360 does, much less a base Xbox One.

which isn’t to say the hardware isn’t perfectly good enough to run real games, and that with enough good support and Apple Arcade it could become a legit game platform of sorts

 

[sublunar]

I know Apple claimed that, but I’ve yet to see anything on iOS come remotely close to what an Xbox 360 does, much less a base Xbox One.

which isn’t to say the hardware isn’t perfectly good enough to run real games, and that with enough good support and Apple Arcade it could become a legit game platform of sorts

Remember at the time of launch that most iPad Pro 2018 SKUs had 4Gb of RAM, the 1Tb version had 6Gb. All 2020 SKUs have 6Gb of LPDDR4X RAM. The Xbox 360 and PS3 had roughly 512Mb of DDR3 RAM but also some eDRAM RAM cache which will have sped certain things up.

Amount and speed of RAM is a major constraint to Apple not being able to compete with comparable games consoles - let's stay with the Xbox One S for the moment.

For games machines the imperative here is to have more RAM and to be able to shift detailed textures and other information as quickly as possible. Being simplistic, with less RAM (and cache, and storage) you can't expect to employ the same amount of detail in games and enjoy the performance.

The Xbox One S has 8Gb of DDR3 RAM, the Xbox One X uses 12Gb of GDDR5 RAM, and the forthcoming Xbox One Series X will reportedly have 16Gb of GDDR6 RAM. As you can imagine, as well as being exceptionally high performance, the GDDR6 RAM is both costly and power consuming.

The situation gets even more interesting when you consider that these consoles are moving from HDD to SSD for storage and not budget rubbish either - and Sony have opted to reduce other bottlenecks in their PS5 rather than go for all-out horsepower like Microsoft have decided to do.

At least storage speed is something Apple at least can stand up against the next gen consoles with. Nobody wants players to feel like their game or console is slow because of loading screens staying past their welcome.

But let's get away from what the 2020 games consoles are aiming to do. To fully replicate a 2013 games console with their ecosystem I believe Apple would have to give developers a full 6Gb of RAM to develop towards on a supposed AppleTV gaming platform using the A12X.

Perhaps a more logical target for comparison would be the ARM powered Nintendo Switch from 2017 which comes with 4Gb of LPDDR4 and is a mobile games console using Tegra X1 (Quad Core CPU).

And I get the feeling that Apple would rather have Animal Crossing on their platform than GTA, and certainly wouldn't be up for adapting what is effectively an iPad platform to somehow get more performance.

Ultimately, with 64Gb and 128Gb storage variants rumoured the Switch would be the fairer comparison in this generation as Apple may not want to introduce a $400 AppleTV with A14X and more storage. I'd be interested to see if next year's iPad Pros come with 8Gb of RAM either as standard or as a back door option on 1Tb models - which would then be used on a future AppleTV product.

This may change if Apple decide that a 'proper' games console should start to come with less limited ARM CPUs and SoC - there is the prospect of ARM Macs on the horizon after all - but software wise it's iOS that has the development lead. Unless Apple decide that it's viable to have games coded for ARM based Macs which can have more horsepower and RAM than an iOS platform is likely to get in the short to medium term.

 

[convergent]

fix the dreadful remote that comes with it is my idea of an upgrade. First Thing I did with mine is use it to start a bond fire on the beach to roast marshmallows. It really sucks bad

There seem to be two camps on the Siri Remote, you either love it or you hate it. Apple has NEVER been about choice. While I doubt they will do something novel like offering an alternative remote with buttons rather than touchpad, it is nice to dream. Like when a game console company sells an alternative "tv remote" to use when viewing TV on their game console.

I am on the fence between going Apple TV on all the TVs or Nvidia Shield on all the TVs. We have a mixture now of Roku, Apple TV, and Android TV (Sony) in the house. I'm using a Caavo remote on our main TV and it is able to provide everything but voice pretty much like the Siri Remote.... like double clicking menu and such. I want to put Apple TVs on the other TVs, but they are only going to stream so just want a simple "Roku sized" remote to drive things. I know some in my household (my wife for sure) will not adapt to the Siri Remote. And there are a lot of people in that camp. You can do the same function with buttons in a similar sized small remote. The problem is that all the good quality alternative remotes are gigantic and designed to drive 5 or 6 devices. I've got Harmony remotes in the house up to the best, but don't use them because we've now simplified our systems since nearly everything is an app now.

So the remote thing is an inhibitor to Apple TV adoption, and would be simple for Apple to fix... just buy that Swiss one or copy it. Go look at dozens of Reddits and you'll find comments like this, "the Apple TV 4K is the best for streaming xyz service, but the remote is awful". That is real... real potential customers. And its no different from the way Apple has been forever. You go Apple, you get their design choices.... period.

I have an Apple TV 4K in the box that I picked up at Best Buy yesterday along with a cheap universal remote that is very compact. Then I realize a new one is imminent. So what to do..... return it and wait, or stop looking at the news.

 

[Stuipdboy1000]

A leaker on Twitter, choco_bit, has posted identifiers for new iPhones, iPads and also the new Apple TV. It has an identifier of ‘AppleTV6,3’, so this sounds like a minor update as the current Apple TV 4K model is identified as AppleTV6,2.

 

[gnomeisland]

Remember at the time of launch that most iPad Pro 2018 SKUs had 4Gb of RAM, the 1Tb version had 6Gb. All 2020 SKUs have 6Gb of LPDDR4X RAM. The Xbox 360 and PS3 had roughly 512Mb of DDR3 RAM but also some eDRAM RAM cache which will have sped certain things up.

Amount and speed of RAM is a major constraint to Apple not being able to compete with comparable games consoles - let's stay with the Xbox One S for the moment.

For games machines the imperative here is to have more RAM and to be able to shift detailed textures and other information as quickly as possible. Being simplistic, with less RAM (and cache, and storage) you can't expect to employ the same amount of detail in games and enjoy the performance.

The Xbox One S has 8Gb of DDR3 RAM, the Xbox One X uses 12Gb of GDDR5 RAM, and the forthcoming Xbox One Series X will reportedly have 16Gb of GDDR6 RAM. As you can imagine, as well as being exceptionally high performance, the GDDR6 RAM is both costly and power consuming.

The situation gets even more interesting when you consider that these consoles are moving from HDD to SSD for storage and not budget rubbish either - and Sony have opted to reduce other bottlenecks in their PS5 rather than go for all-out horsepower like Microsoft have decided to do.

At least storage speed is something Apple at least can stand up against the next gen consoles with. Nobody wants players to feel like their game or console is slow because of loading screens staying past their welcome.

But let's get away from what the 2020 games consoles are aiming to do. To fully replicate a 2013 games console with their ecosystem I believe Apple would have to give developers a full 6Gb of RAM to develop towards on a supposed AppleTV gaming platform using the A12X.

Perhaps a more logical target for comparison would be the ARM powered Nintendo Switch from 2017 which comes with 4Gb of LPDDR4 and is a mobile games console using Tegra X1 (Quad Core CPU).

And I get the feeling that Apple would rather have Animal Crossing on their platform than GTA, and certainly wouldn't be up for adapting what is effectively an iPad platform to somehow get more performance.

Ultimately, with 64Gb and 128Gb storage variants rumoured the Switch would be the fairer comparison in this generation as Apple may not want to introduce a $400 AppleTV with A14X and more storage. I'd be interested to see if next year's iPad Pros come with 8Gb of RAM either as standard or as a back door option on 1Tb models - which would then be used on a future AppleTV product.

This may change if Apple decide that a 'proper' games console should start to come with less limited ARM CPUs and SoC - there is the prospect of ARM Macs on the horizon after all - but software wise it's iOS that has the development lead. Unless Apple decide that it's viable to have games coded for ARM based Macs which can have more horsepower and RAM than an iOS platform is likely to get in the short to medium term.

Switch is behind even the Apple TV 4K. If it weren't for the market share and name power of Nintendo it wouldn't have even the ported games it currently has on it. I'm also not convinced that an Apple TV with a A14X would be $400. Although, perhaps it is something that Apple will wait a year or two to release (especially now that it looks like the apps won't get that chip until 2021). Remember the iPhone SE, with a good margin, runs Apple's current flagship A13 and is $400. That includes the cost of the battery, screen, touchID, cellular modem, and other hardware bits an AppleTV wouldn't need. Yes, the larger 'X' series SOC variants are probably more expensive, and the ATV hardware would need more RAM, but I don't think those costs would offset savings so the Apple TV would be (much) less than $400.

Apple also has years of developing other custom solutions that it could leverage that MS & Sony to develop or buy off the shelf. For example, I haven't seen the I/O specs on the iPhone SE but I'd be surprised if they are anything less than Apple's current best which places it just below the next-gen consoles. So Apple can do that without increasing the cost. Apple's stuff is expensive because they (typically) only user quality parts and they always include a profit margin. However, they are the value leader from time-to-time when a supply-chain or tech lead allows them to underprice the competition while keeping their target margin.
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A leaker on Twitter, choco_bit, has posted identifiers for new iPhones, iPads and also the new Apple TV. It has an identifier of ‘AppleTV6,3’, so this sounds like a minor update as the current Apple TV 4K model is identified as AppleTV6,2.

Sigh. Sadly you are prob right.

 

[sublunar]

A leaker on Twitter, choco_bit, has posted identifiers for new iPhones, iPads and also the new Apple TV. It has an identifier of ‘AppleTV6,3’, so this sounds like a minor update as the current Apple TV 4K model is identified as AppleTV6,2.

It'll be as simple as putting an A12x into the existing case style, doubling native storage and calling it a day.

Switch is behind even the Apple TV 4K. If it weren't for the market share and name power of Nintendo it wouldn't have even the ported games it currently has on it. I'm also not convinced that an Apple TV with a A14X would be $400. Although, perhaps it is something that Apple will wait a year or two to release (especially now that it looks like the apps won't get that chip until 2021). Remember the iPhone SE, with a good margin, runs Apple's current flagship A13 and is $400. That includes the cost of the battery, screen, touchID, cellular modem, and other hardware bits an AppleTV wouldn't need. Yes, the larger 'X' series SOC variants are probably more expensive, and the ATV hardware would need more RAM, but I don't think those costs would offset savings so the Apple TV would be (much) less than $400.

Apple also has years of developing other custom solutions that it could leverage that MS & Sony to develop or buy off the shelf. For example, I haven't seen the I/O specs on the iPhone SE but I'd be surprised if they are anything less than Apple's current best which places it just below the next-gen consoles. So Apple can do that without increasing the cost. Apple's stuff is expensive because they (typically) only user quality parts and they always include a profit margin. However, they are the value leader from time-to-time when a supply-chain or tech lead allows them to underprice the competition while keeping their target margin.

The issue with the AppleTV platform here is that the next generation gaming platforms have more RAM - crucial if you are going to do complex game while frame buffering with displays of up to 4k resolution - and fast SSD storage.

Given that the AppleTV get would get A12X and double the storage (which Apple have been doing anyway on product refreshes for no extra cost) we could easily be talking an unchanged price for the refreshed AppleTV 4k (£199 UK).

Granted, Apple aren't using PCIe 4.0 x4 SSD and GDDR6 RAM into their ARM SOC so they won't get the highest performance possible.

You don't have to go very far to see what Sony and Microsoft are doing to improve performance.

But that should not stop Apple from trying their best to get a better experience for users of the new AppleTV. Even using 6Gb of RAM would make game developers sit up and take notice.

Amazon UK were recently spotted putting a placeholder in for the PS5 at £599 (imagine that being $599 US) allegedly with 2Tb of SSD so there's no way that Apple would compete there.

 

[satchmo]

It'll be as simple as putting an A12x into the existing case style, doubling native storage and calling it a day.



The issue with the AppleTV platform here is that the next generation gaming platforms have more RAM - crucial if you are going to do complex game while frame buffering with displays of up to 4k resolution - and fast SSD storage.

Given that the AppleTV get would get A12X and double the storage (which Apple have been doing anyway on product refreshes for no extra cost) we could easily be talking an unchanged price for the refreshed AppleTV 4k (£199 UK).

Granted, Apple aren't using PCIe 4.0 x4 SSD and GDDR6 RAM into their ARM SOC so they won't get the highest performance possible.

You don't have to go very far to see what Sony and Microsoft are doing to improve performance.

But that should not stop Apple from trying their best to get a better experience for users of the new AppleTV. Even using 6Gb of RAM would make game developers sit up and take notice.

Amazon UK were recently spotted putting a placeholder in for the PS5 at £599 (imagine that being $599 US) allegedly with 2Tb of SSD so there's no way that Apple would compete there.

Do we think Apple is interested in competing against hardcore gaming consoles?

Even Apple Arcade still strikes me as targeting casual gamers. It’s more of a nice to have if you prefer not to watch a movie or something to keep the kids occupied.

 

[sublunar]

Do we think Apple is interested in competing against hardcore gaming consoles?

Even Apple Arcade still strikes me as targeting casual gamers. It’s more of a nice to have if you prefer not to watch a movie or something to keep the kids occupied.

No way are they going after 'hardcore' gaming consoles. Just like Apple would never be out to beat the so-called AAA Call of Duty etc PC titles because of the way their hardware is designed plus the paucity of development on their software platform.

I've even suggested that Apple would be happy to supply freemium casual games like Animal Crossing to iOS.

Apple Arcade sounds to me like it should compile games that are better than average freemium games.

But Apple needs to do more to get a breakout title to make people want to get involved - not being cross platform makes their job that much harder.

 

[Abazigal]

Do we think Apple is interested in competing against hardcore gaming consoles?

Even Apple Arcade still strikes me as targeting casual gamers. It’s more of a nice to have if you prefer not to watch a movie or something to keep the kids occupied.

I don’t think so, for the simple reason that the number of people who sit in the living room and play a console game on their Apple TV with a game controller would be far less than the number of people playing more casual smartphone games on their iOS devices while out on the go.

Apple is simply catering to the mainstream.

 

[Wolfpup]

uuuugh, had their conference and still no Apple TV. Getting close to 3 years at this point!

still interested in it almost entirely because I trust it’s security way more than Roku or Amazon or my tv.

 

[Black Belt]

Making us continue with an OLD Apple TV instead of releasing it it an ***** move by Tim Cook

 

[EugW]

It's looking like my Apple TV 4K refurb purchase one year ago was not a bad decision after all.

 

[radamo]

It's looking like my Apple TV 4K refurb purchase one year ago was not a bad decision after all.

I was hoping to add one soon... but I know as soon as I purchase the new one will be released a week later. :-(

 

[sublunar]

I've seen adverts on BT Sport for the new Tom Hanks North Atlantic WW2 movie - Greyhound - that's exclusive to AppleTV+

I'm not sure people will find it compelling enough to try and find a way to watch it, it's certainly not as easy as logging into Netflix - there's so many ways to get there.

A new AppleTV would certainly motivate people to try but fewer people will be bothered about watching it on a phone or tablet - especially in the target demographic which they appear to be trying to hit (presumably dads of a certain age)

One thing that does come to mind for this thread is the fact that there is now an Apple SoC with A12z CPU and 16Gb of RAM with access to USB ports.

Wouldn't that make for an interesting games console?

 

[Banich2]

Your assertions reinforces my point. Siri Remote is not good for watching video.

A car key fob is a poor analogy since you really don't need many buttons on a key fob (lock/unlock and maybe trunk). Siri Remote needs to a lot more than that.

My top 5 Siri Remote issues, for core functions:

1. Power on/off: holding down Home for 3 seconds then choosing Sleep is tedious and not obvious.
2. Play and pause: a dedicated play/pause button does the job, but not when you hold the remote upside in the dark. You will be triggering Home button instead.
3. Rewind and forward: swiping or clicking left or right edges of the touch surface is great when the remote is held correctly. The problem is, it's all too easy to accidentally trigger them.
4. Navigating menu: same issue as rewind and forward. Also, Menu button is used for back, but it isn't used consistently because, well it's called Menu. And swiping up/down to pull up language and other options to me isn't obvious and also not consistently implemented.
5. Change volume: no mute button. Pausing isn't always ideal as the TV can emit sound when video isn't playing (e.g., games). Holding down volume down isn't as instantaneous and requires restoring volume state to unmute.

Solving these issues requires:

• Adding buttons for sleep, back, option, and mute.
• Less symmetric design so that people can use it in the dark. Your suggestion of attaching tape is ridiculous.
• Redesign the touch surface so that it isn't accidentally triggered. Maybe a variation of force touch where you need lightly click to activate the surface, then click more to select?

And other rooms for improvement:

• Less slippery material.
• A bit larger to better fit most people's hand and to make it less easier to lose between the couch.
• Qi wireless charging.
• Find My Remote.

The Siri remote needs a lock, like the mute button on an iPhone

 

[Wolfpup]

Blarg to still no new hardware nor price cut. I’m actually a little hesitant anyway now that my apple account is locked every few days 😕

still trust apple for privacy more than others though, and don’t really trust Roku nor Amazon for security

 

[Velociround]

The Siri remote needs a lock, like the mute button on an iPhone

I think Apple heard you a few years ago; previously, any button on the remove would turn on the TV. Now only the TV and Menu buttons do. You can safely press any others and it won't trigger the TV anymore. I liked the old behavior, but sometimes I got false positives (sit on the control, thus pressing the touchpad), so I understand (and appreciate) the "new" (a few years ago?) version.

Well, I disagree with pretty much everything else you and nutmac said about the remote. The Apple TV remote is the only remote I actually like and enjoy using, all others have so many useless buttons, I can never tell which side is up, etc.

From my Samsung TV remote's 50 buttons (SERIOUSLY) I guess I have only used 5 or so:
- Power on/off (I would rather not have a dedicate button for this)
- Volume up and down (note: not the separate mute button)
- Menu (only once, when setting up the TV)
- Arrows and "enter" (normal TV usage)
- Switch source (this is a good one but should be easier to use)
- Exit (why is there a separate button for this?!?!)

That's it... which means 90% of this remote is useless. The useless-to-useful ratio is pretty bad.

 

[Wolfpup]

I think Apple heard you a few years ago; previously, any button on the remove would turn on the TV. Now only the TV and Menu buttons do. You can safely press any others and it won't trigger the TV anymore. I liked the old behavior, but sometimes I got false positives (sit on the control, thus pressing the touchpad), so I understand (and appreciate) the "new" (a few years ago?) version.

Well, I disagree with pretty much everything else you and nutmac said about the remote. The Apple TV remote is the only remote I actually like and enjoy using, all others have so many useless buttons, I can never tell which side is up, etc.

From my Samsung TV remote's 50 buttons (SERIOUSLY) I guess I have only used 5 or so:
- Power on/off (I would rather not have a dedicate button for this)
- Volume up and down (note: not the separate mute button)
- Menu (only once, when setting up the TV)
- Arrows and "enter" (normal TV usage)
- Switch source (this is a good one but should be easier to use)
- Exit (why is there a separate button for this?!?!)

That's it... which means 90% of this remote is useless. The useless-to-useful ratio is pretty bad.

I think a lot of remotes have too many buttons, but lots lately don’t (including actually my 2016 Samsung remote, which if anything could stand to have some more).

having too many random buttons though doesn’t make up for all the dumb choices apple made with that remote, including the touchpad, the sealed battery, the inability to use multiple of that remote at once

 

[x-evil-x]

I think a lot of remotes have too many buttons, but lots lately don’t (including actually my 2016 Samsung remote, which if anything could stand to have some more).

having too many random buttons though doesn’t make up for all the dumb choices apple made with that remote, including the touchpad, the sealed battery, the inability to use multiple of that remote at once

a sealed battery that you charge once a year is a negative okkkkk.
My mom replaces her stupid triple a's in her amazon remotes every few months and she calls me because she thinks her whole system is broken. Nope just the batteries. Why is this a negative again?

 

[ericwn]

a sealed battery that you charge once a year is a negative okkkkk.
My mom replaces her stupid triple a's in her amazon remotes every few months and she calls me because she thinks her whole system is broken. Nope just the batteries. Why is this a negative again?

I don’t get that either. I am frustrated with the ATV remote though because when you pick it in up it’s rather tricky to know which way you’re holding it, as only one button feels slightly different to the others.

 

[x-evil-x]

I don’t get that either. I am frustrated with the ATV remote though because when you pick it in up it’s rather tricky to know which way you’re holding it, as only one button feels slightly different to the others.

The newest ones have a raised ring over the menu button. Sure you have to get in the hang of remember to feel for it but its not too bad. Or just feel the right button if its longer then a normal button then its the volume and its right side up. Just things to remember but some people cant seem to get the hang of remembering little things.

 

[imlovinit]

Does anyone here tend to use their iphone or iPad as a remote instead of the actual remote? I find it super easy, simple, and you can rewind/ff 10 seconds. I guess it’s more convenient to me since I usually have one device or another nearby or in my hands lol

 

[ericwn]

The newest ones have a raised ring over the menu button. Sure you have to get in the hang of remember to feel for it but its not too bad. Or just feel the right button if its longer then a normal button then its the volume and its right side up. Just things to remember but some people cant seem to get the hang of remembering little things.

It’s a trigger happy device often operated in less than ideal lighting conditions. With a third being taken up by the trackpad it’s still easy to trigger an accidental command. It’s just less intuitive of a design.

 

[ericwn]

Does anyone here tend to use their iphone or iPad as a remote instead of the actual remote? I find it super easy, simple, and you can rewind/ff 10 seconds. I guess it’s more convenient to me since I usually have one device or another nearby or in my hands lol

Yup I use that rather often. The 10 seconds jump ahead I believe is done by the regular remote too if you press once on the left or right part of the trackpad when viewing a movie.

The iOS remote functionality is great especially for keyboard entry.

 

[imlovinit]

Yup I use that rather often. The 10 seconds jump ahead I believe is done by the regular remote too if you press once on the left or right part of the trackpad when viewing a movie.

The iOS remote functionality is great especially for keyboard entry.

Ah thanks for the info on the regular remote. It’s so sensitive at times I haven’t mastered that yet, I still have issues of skimming forward and pressing play for it to go right back to the start. I think I’m better off sticking with ios remote .