Rumor Suggests New Apple TV 4K With A12X Chip is 'Ready to Ship'

[sublunar]

Probably not server side. Everything is already loaded. However, when I scroll sometimes it just slows down for a brief instant. A fresh reboot seems to clear it up so it makes me wonder if it has to do with memory.

However video streams are fine. No stutters at all even with 4K Dolby Vision.

AppleTV strikes me as the kind of device that people would keep for multiple years rather than - for example - an iPhone or iPad that also slows down with future iOS updates but is also constrained by battery life.

For this reason I'd say that's why these devices need to be slightly overspecified on release as people will be keeping the streaming box for years. I have a couple of mark 3 AppleTVs with the excellent Apple Remote and skipped the Mark 4 because it didn't support 4k (years before I got a 4k TV). I was agnostic about the Siri Remote.

I also skipped the Mark 5 because to wait for an updated model because I saw the A10X CPU (with 3Gb of RAM as it turns out) as underwhelming. It turns out that it's similarly specced to the iPad Pro 2017 SoC.

So in theory a mark 6 AppleTV with A12X CPU could use the iPad Pro 2018 SoC - with 4Gb RAM - but the same chipset also supports 6Gb of RAM as per the 1Tb 2018 iPad Pro SKUs.

It's already been noted that this AppleTV has been sitting around potentially waiting for release for months - Jon Prosser mentioned it in the Gadget Cast podcast too. Judging by that previous article Apple must have decided to postpone the project to fit the A12X CPU rather than the A12 CPU - I would imagine testing pre-production A12 hardware on 4k screens might have shown up some lag.

If Apple reconfigured their plans around A12/A12X then it would be logical to give the AppleTV more RAM to cope with increasing numbers of consumers switching to 4k TVs. In effect the 2020 SoC shows how Apple have already moved on from 4Gb - leaving the mark 6 AppleTV on 4Gb would be a retrograde step.

I'd like to think that Apple would be forward thinking and do the latter of course as it would make the Mark 6 a capable platform for a good 4 years. They would only need to give it a mid life storage bump to 128/256Gb to keep sales up.

 

[trip1ex]

Key fobs are small because they are carried in your pocket. And they require far fewer functions than a remote control.

Beyond aesthetics, all remote controls should be (1) easy to execute common tasks, (2) can be used by "feel", and (3) ergonomic.

Once more, let's go through common tasks Siri Remote isn't good at:

• Sleep: hold Home for few seconds to bring Control Center, then use Touch Surface to select Sleep. Why not a dedicated Sleep button? Home button is a joke in itself. Once to go to Up Next and twice to actually go Home? There's an option to make it a bit less confusing, but it's not at all obvious. Heck, iPhone has a Sleep button for a reason.
• Mute/unmute: hold volume down or up for few seconds. Why not a mute button like almost every remote controls out there so that I can access it immediately? Pause doesn't work on many apps (e.g., Netflix's autoplay preview/trailer, games). It's just one frigging button. I guess I should be thankful that I don't have to hold Home for few seconds and select Mute from Control Center. Heck, iPhone has a mute switch for a reason.
• Back: since the Menu button is supposed to be for going to the previous screen, why not just call it Back? You guessed it, iPhone has "<" for Back for a reason.
• Menu: holding down the touch surface for few seconds? or swipe down to get language option? when there's a frigging button called Menu? On iPhone, you don't need to do a gesture to access menu. Gesture is a shortcut.
• And often mentioned "I am holding it wrong" because the darn remote is too symmetric and Touch Surface is all too easy to accidentally trigger. Apple fixed iPhone's antenna design of iPhone 4 for a reason.

All I am asking for are:

1. Dedicated 3 new buttons: Sleep, Mute, Back
2. Larger, more ergonomic, and asymmetric form factor to better fit adult size hands (as a bonus, larger battery and less easy to misplace). Trying to play games with Siri Remote with two hands feels awkward.
3. Redesigned Touch Surface that resists accidental trigger.

As I stated earlier, I am not saying Siri Remote sucks for everyone. For minimalists like you and Ive, I am sure it's great. It's certainly a beautiful looking device.

But for others that are used to remote controls that can do more, without requiring you to learn and use gestures, and need a remote that can be used more easily by feel, it's just not good.

1,2 & 3: Key fobs are used in the dark by feel without looking for them. Yet they are smaller than the ATV remote. The ATV remote has bigger buttons than most any tv remote. The ATV has dedicated buttons for all the tv watching functions.

Why no dedicated Sleep button? Because you only turn off your tv and sleep the atv once per tv watching session and it is easy peasy to do this with the current remote. Also, if you're really lazy, the ATV will auto sleep and turn off your tv off for you in 15 minutes. Other electronics have similar behavior. The PS4 for example.

Home button always goes home for me.

Why no mute button? Because it is redundant in today's world. You hit pause to mute when watching a show. You can also hold down the - volume button for a second in any situation. Given the volume controls are always under your thumb on the ATV remote, it is highly likely this would be at least as convenient as reaching and feeling for some tiny mute button on some other remote. One can also mute by pressing the home or menu button in most (if not all) cases.

The Menu button is the back button. It works perfect. It always goes back to the previous MENU. Doh! IF you want to get hung up on the name just to get hung up on the name then that's your prerogative. That's not a reason for adding another button.

Same thing with swipe down to get the language options. It just works.


That's why the ATV remote doesn't need extra buttons. It already has dedicated buttons for all tv watching functions. More would be redundant. And everything works easy peasy.

The fact that it is has buttons bigger than most remotes means it doesn't need to be any bigger either. PLus you can add a case to it if you want it to be bigger. The battery rarely needs charging so it doesn't need a bigger battery. The touch surface already resists accidental trigger. You learn which side is up by feel over time. Add a little piece of tape or something to the bottom if you need extra help. It takes a few seconds to learn each of the handful or so of controls unique to the ATV remote.

 

[nutmac]

The fact that it is has buttons bigger than most remotes means it doesn't need to be any bigger either. PLus you can add a case to it if you want it to be bigger. The battery rarely needs charging so it doesn't need a bigger battery. The touch surface already resists accidental trigger. You learn which side is up by feel over time. Add a little piece of tape or something to the bottom if you need extra help. It takes a few seconds to learn each of the handful or so of controls unique to the ATV remote.

You win, sir! May Apple never ever update Siri Remote, which is the most perfect device Apple ever made. Anyone who disagrees with you is too stupid to use it properly.

 

[notabadname]

Give me an on-board dynamic music-sensitive screensaver like I can play on my laptop and desktop. The visualizer would be nice instead of the looped aerial videos (as beautiful as they are) or the album cover with lyrics. I prefer the visualizer.

 

[mtneer]

Hope Apple and Google bury the hatchet and get 4K YouTube into this model. Otherwise, for my use case, this will be a no-buy.

 

[Biofreak12]

all i care is for apple to add an option for multiple airpods at once.

 

[iToph]

I don’t get why the remote is so bad. They could easily ship a pointer style remote like LG does, everyone would be satisfied.

 

[ian6969]

1,2 & 3: Key fobs are used in the dark by feel without looking for them. Yet they are smaller than the ATV remote. The ATV remote has bigger buttons than most any tv remote. The ATV has dedicated buttons for all the tv watching functions.

Why no dedicated Sleep button? Because you only turn off your tv and sleep the atv once per tv watching session and it is easy peasy to do this with the current remote. Also, if you're really lazy, the ATV will auto sleep and turn off your tv off for you in 15 minutes. Other electronics have similar behavior. The PS4 for example.

Home button always goes home for me.

Why no mute button? Because it is redundant in today's world. You hit pause to mute when watching a show. You can also hold down the - volume button for a second in any situation. Given the volume controls are always under your thumb on the ATV remote, it is highly likely this would be at least as convenient as reaching and feeling for some tiny mute button on some other remote. One can also mute by pressing the home or menu button in most (if not all) cases.

The Menu button is the back button. It works perfect. It always goes back to the previous MENU. Doh! IF you want to get hung up on the name just to get hung up on the name then that's your prerogative. That's not a reason for adding another button.

Same thing with swipe down to get the language options. It just works.


That's why the ATV remote doesn't need extra buttons. It already has dedicated buttons for all tv watching functions. More would be redundant. And everything works easy peasy.

The fact that it is has buttons bigger than most remotes means it doesn't need to be any bigger either. PLus you can add a case to it if you want it to be bigger. The battery rarely needs charging so it doesn't need a bigger battery. The touch surface already resists accidental trigger. You learn which side is up by feel over time. Add a little piece of tape or something to the bottom if you need extra help. It takes a few seconds to learn each of the handful or so of controls unique to the ATV remote.

Agree with all of this. I used to pick it up the wrong way around, but the silicone case has sorted that. I used a mute button about 20 years ago - when the TV was just on in the background - but in this world of streaming, we only watch what we want when we want, so always pause rather than mute (if I can miss a section of a show while its on mute, then it’s clearly not good enough to be watching anyway 😂) Scrolling around the interface seem so natural, I can’t imagine going back to old-school up/down/left/right buttons.

 

[NZPilgrim]

Eventually, WiFi 6 and newer Bluetooth formats will show up in Apple devices, but maybe next year.
One thing I'd like is the ability to add Settings shortcuts to the home screen. We use a lot of earbuds in our family, moving from room to room, so any way to improve detection and switching, without drilling into Settings, would be helpful. Not all portals allow you to swipe down to change audio devices while you are watching- some only do subtitles and language streams. Sometimes my soundbar doesn't deactivate properly when I switch to AirPods or Beats, so I have to drill down and back out after I've started a show.

if you’re using AirPods there’s no need to drill into settings or have a shortcut. Just put them in your ears to activate them and from the Apple TV home screen push and hold the play button on the remote. After about 2 seconds a pop up will appear that lets you choose your AirPods to output to.

this should also work with standard Bluetooth headphones if they’ve been previously set up on the Apple TV but I’ve never tried it so can’t say for sure.

 

[macfacts]

Yes apple 4k allows screensavers while playing music. Also apple tv has many great 4k screensavers that the other streaming devices do not carry. The apple 4k is so customizable. The others not at all customizables. Download golfscapes for apple tv 4k awesome slideshows all over the world. Not available on other streaming devices. Apple tv 4k is the best by far. No comparisons.

Flying toasters are not killer feature.

 

[sublunar]

Flying toasters are not killer feature.

Now there's an Apple veteran.

 

[D3xbot]

Do you think this will be enough for Google to implement a software-based VP9 decoder so we can get 4k YouTube on AppleTV or is that just a pipe dream? If they can implement a software decoder on an xbox and do it in-browser, they should be able to do it in a tvOS app!

Somewhat related, hopefully the Plex app will take advantage of the newer hardware to move transcode to the client side so my FreeNAS box won't get so loud when streaming

 

[EugW]

I now I understand why I was thinking A12. Long before Prosser's recent rumour, others were reporting a rumour a new Apple TV but with A12, not A12X. They reported the same T1125 codename too, and 128 GB storage.

 

[sublunar]

I now I understand why I was thinking A12. Long before Prosser's recent rumour, others were reporting a rumour a new Apple TV but with A12, not A12X. They reported the same T1125 codename too, and 128 GB storage.

What's more interesting is that they've been testing it all along and decided not to pull the trigger on it last October. Adding the more powerful A12X is very understandable if they were looking at performance on 4k TVs. If they can get decent Apple Arcade content - perhaps majoring on multiplayer - they could be on to something if they can leverage a 'captive' audience this year.

Without much new AppleTV+ content the obvious replacement is games, with social games potentially a big market for the next 12-18 months.

Do you think this will be enough for Google to implement a software-based VP9 decoder so we can get 4k YouTube on AppleTV or is that just a pipe dream? If they can implement a software decoder on an xbox and do it in-browser, they should be able to do it in a tvOS app!

That would be a bad experience without hardware support and that's Apple's call.

 

[tomhendrix]

Multiple rumors have indicated that Apple is working on a refreshed version of the Apple TV, and today, leaker Jon Prosser said that an updated 4K Apple TV model is "ready to ship."

According to Prosser, the Apple TV 4K will feature an A12X chip and 64 or 128GB storage options. The new Apple TV 4K could "drop any time," but Prosser does not know details on a specific launch date.

Signs of a new Apple TV were spotted in the iOS 13.4 beta in January, and at the time, it was believed it would feature an A12 chip. Prior rumors also suggested the same 64 and 128GB storage sizes mentioned by Prosser.

Beyond the new processor, we're not expecting major changes to the Apple TV. There have been signs of a new Apple TV with an updated remote in leaked iOS 14 code, but it's not clear if the new Apple TV that's rumored to be coming soon will feature remote control updates.

Prosser this week also said that Apple has a new iMac and AirPods ready to ship, but he did not provide additional details on these particular products.

Article Link: Rumor Suggests New Apple TV 4K With A12X Chip is 'Ready to Ship'

fix the dreadful remote that comes with it is my idea of an upgrade. First Thing I did with mine is use it to start a bond fire on the beach to roast marshmallows. It really sucks bad

 

[legends92]

All I want is pass-through of lossless audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-X, and DTS-HD) just like the NVIDIA Shield.

 

[sublunar]

fix the dreadful remote that comes with it is my idea of an upgrade. First Thing I did with mine is use it to start a bond fire on the beach to roast marshmallows. It really sucks bad

My idea of an upgrade is for Apple to go back to the original aluminium remote and let the Siri Remote be optional at extra cost. What if they also released an improved app for remote control using iPad or iPhone?

I'd take 6Gb of RAM over the Siri remote in that case. Let retailers do bundles with the Siri remote or a game controller (or two).

 

[EugW]

My idea of an upgrade is for Apple to go back to the original aluminium remote and let the Siri Remote be optional at extra cost. What if they also released an improved app for remote control using iPad or iPhone?

I'd take 6Gb of RAM over the Siri remote in that case. Let retailers do bundles with the Siri remote or a game controller (or two).

You can use the aluminum remote right now on the current model Apple TV 4K. Works fine, although stuff like skip forward or back 15 sec is missing. You have to FF/RW manually to the spot you want. Also, scrubbing is done only via FF/RW of course.

My preferred remote would thus be something like the aluminum remote with say a Touch Bar for scrubbing.

 

[gnomeisland]

A14X would have been ideal but releasing AppleTV at or prior to WWDC gives developers a chance to target it for the holiday season, plus using the A12X would enable a cheaper AppleTV. I can't see a $400 AppleTV launching in November attracting too many people this side of Christmas.

And you'd have a visible upgrade path in 2 years time too with an A14X asking to be used in a refresh unit at some point.

Launching it now for $200 for the 128Gb model gives developers a fighting chance to port some iPad apps over in time for Christmas, and if Apple continue to dish out a year of free Apple TV+ that would be a win too.

If Apple sacrifice the so called Siri remote (available separately in the Apple Store for $59) to add in the basic Apple Remote instead ($19) they could possibly afford to give the unit the 6Gb of RAM it deserves to give 4k upscaled gaming a really good go for under $200 - just add (compatible) Xbox or Playstation controllers.

If the games on it are technologically on a par with Xbox One S or Playstation 4, only with some decent upscaling tech to make HD assets look good on a 4k screen then you couldn't really argue.

If the rumors are true, it is a moot point, but I don’t believe an A14X Apple TV would be $400. Apple has a vertical advantage that even giants like Sony and MS don’t have. The R&D, fab setup, etc. costs for all the key components (SoC, wireless, SSD controller, etc.) are all covered by the cash-cow iPhone 12 & iPad Pro. Apple already is ordering these parts in obscene quantities and great prices.

I really think Apple could have made an Apple TV with a A14X and 6-8GB of RAM for less than $300 (say 32GB base) with of course +$100 each time you wanted to double the non-removable storage (which most people will do b/c no external storage) and tey would make money on the hardware instead of losing it like Sony and MS plan to do for the first year or more. If the Apple TV 14X came within fighting distance to the PS5 and XBOX at 4K HDR resolutions (8K support is silly), and instead of just depending on developers, Apple really paid for some AAA exclusives they’d have a fighting chance of seriously disrupting the console market.

 

[sublunar]

If the rumors are true, it is a moot point, but I don’t believe an A14X Apple TV would be $400. Apple has a vertical advantage that even giants like Sony and MS don’t have. The R&D, fab setup, etc. costs for all the key components (SoC, wireless, SSD controller, etc.) are all covered by the cash-cow iPhone 12 & iPad Pro. Apple already is ordering these parts in obscene quantities and great prices.

I really think Apple could have made an Apple TV with a A14X and 6-8GB of RAM for less than $300 (say 32GB base) with of course +$100 each time you wanted to double the non-removable storage (which most people will do b/c no external storage) and tey would make money on the hardware instead of losing it like Sony and MS plan to do for the first year or more. If the Apple TV 14X came within fighting distance to the PS5 and XBOX at 4K HDR resolutions (8K support is silly), and instead of just depending on developers, Apple really paid for some AAA exclusives they’d have a fighting chance of seriously disrupting the console market.

We would have to wait until a 2021 iPad Pro to see how much better it is than the 2020 edition. The current benchmarks point towards an iPad Pro 2020 roughly similar to the top SKU 28w MacBook Pro 13". Apple said the A12x CPU in the 2018 iPad Pro was roughly analogous to the Xbox One S (the rebadged original Xbox One which is about to become 2 generations behind.

Remember the 2020 edition of the iPad Pro merely has slightly better GPU grunt (perhaps 10-12% better due to the 8th activated GPU core) - so in effect Apple are releasing an Xbox One/PS4 class machine, probably pricing it at $200 as per the existing AppleTV, and marketing it as the streaming box which can also play games. Granted, these games will probably be upscaled for 4k TVs that are prevalent these days but that's the sort of thing that you really want the 6Gb of RAM that the 2018 iPad Pro SoC is capable of.

I wouldn't expect AAA games to show up on the AppleTV - no way would we see ports from PC versions - but if Apple went and bought a good independent developer - like Microsoft ironically did with Mac developer Bungie for Halo - they could have the makings of a decent platform. There's already some good games on the iOS platform which would be closer to making to leap across.

In this day and age if Apple crack the cheap multiplayer market they'd have a good chance of getting some traction - you can't expect them to persuade AAA games developers to spend time porting games over to a relatively weedy and very alien platform.

Getting the A14x anywhere close to Xbox One X or PS4 Pro performance would be great - nobody should expect that CPU to beat the cutting edge AMD SoC that will end up in the Xbox One Series X or PS5. Apple's difference ought to be the ecosystem and decent games library.

My preferred remote would thus be something like the aluminum remote with say a Touch Bar for scrubbing.

Cracking idea - I like it. And an app version would be great too.

 

[ericwn]

You can use the aluminum remote right now on the current model Apple TV 4K. Works fine, although stuff like skip forward or back 15 sec is missing. You have to FF/RW manually to the spot you want. Also, scrubbing is done only via FF/RW of course.

My preferred remote would thus be something like the aluminum remote with say a Touch Bar for scrubbing.

Great idea with the remote! I’d get one.

 

[gnomeisland]

We would have to wait until a 2021 iPad Pro to see how much better it is than the 2020 edition. The current benchmarks point towards an iPad Pro 2020 roughly similar to the top SKU 28w MacBook Pro 13". Apple said the A12x CPU in the 2018 iPad Pro was roughly analogous to the Xbox One S (the rebadged original Xbox One which is about to become 2 generations behind.

Remember the 2020 edition of the iPad Pro merely has slightly better GPU grunt (perhaps 10-12% better due to the 8th activated GPU core) - so in effect Apple are releasing an Xbox One/PS4 class machine, probably pricing it at $200 as per the existing AppleTV, and marketing it as the streaming box which can also play games. Granted, these games will probably be upscaled for 4k TVs that are prevalent these days but that's the sort of thing that you really want the 6Gb of RAM that the 2018 iPad Pro SoC is capable of.

I wouldn't expect AAA games to show up on the AppleTV - no way would we see ports from PC versions - but if Apple went and bought a good independent developer - like Microsoft ironically did with Mac developer Bungie for Halo - they could have the makings of a decent platform. There's already some good games on the iOS platform which would be closer to making to leap across.

In this day and age if Apple crack the cheap multiplayer market they'd have a good chance of getting some traction - you can't expect them to persuade AAA games developers to spend time porting games over to a relatively weedy and very alien platform.

Getting the A14x anywhere close to Xbox One X or PS4 Pro performance would be great - nobody should expect that CPU to beat the cutting edge AMD SoC that will end up in the Xbox One Series X or PS5. Apple's difference ought to be the ecosystem and decent games library.

I'm well aware of where the current hardware fits in and Apple's comparison with the Xbox S.

The CPU is already very, very close if not better. The GPU is what is holding the SoC back and I think that will improve significantly in this generation.

You're kind of making my point for me. MS doing what it took to secure a AAA title launched the Xbox. Apple needs something similar to get mobile games into the living room. They need a game you can play on mobile but you WANT to play on a big screen. The hardware needs to be able to do that at 4K HDR and I don't think the A12X is capable. In particular the GPU. The CPU is already there.

 

[sublunar]

I'm well aware of where the current hardware fits in and Apple's comparison with the Xbox S.

The CPU is already very, very close if not better. The GPU is what is holding the SoC back and I think that will improve significantly in this generation.

You're kind of making my point for me. MS doing what it took to secure a AAA title launched the Xbox. Apple needs something similar to get mobile games into the living room. They need a game you can play on mobile but you WANT to play on a big screen. The hardware needs to be able to do that at 4K HDR and I don't think the A12X is capable. In particular the GPU. The CPU is already there.

Thing is, Apple don't appear to have shown much interest in doing this unless they are about to spring a massive surprise at WWDC to say they signed up Bungie to make a game. And I doubt they'll have a AAA title ready in mere months unless Bungie have been at it since January 2019 when they cut ties with Activision/Blizzard. The development platform (A12X) has been around for that long and intelligent upscaling can work wonders.

Apple could have partnered with a smaller indie publisher but landing someone like Bungie would make big waves.

Nobody seriously expects 60Hz 4k gaming until the PS5/XBox Series X comes out - and even then there's going to be asterisks next to some titles so intelligent upscaling should be the watchword going forwards.

 

[gnomeisland]

Thing is, Apple don't appear to have shown much interest in doing this unless they are about to spring a massive surprise at WWDC to say they signed up Bungie to make a game. And I doubt they'll have a AAA title ready in mere months unless Bungie have been at it since January 2019 when they cut ties with Activision/Blizzard. The development platform (A12X) has been around for that long and intelligent upscaling can work wonders.

Apple could have partnered with a smaller indie publisher but landing someone like Bungie would make big waves.

Nobody seriously expects 60Hz 4k gaming until the PS5/XBox Series X comes out - and even then there's going to be asterisks next to some titles so intelligent upscaling should be the watchword going forwards.

I don't disagree with any of that, and it looks the most likely option, but now would be an opportunity to "do things 10 times better" as Jobs put it, and win over that market. In the end, none of my rants matter and most likely this will be a minor proc bump to add better Apple Arcade and AV1 support. Prob HDMI 2.1.

 

[sublunar]

I don't disagree with any of that, and it looks the most likely option, but now would be an opportunity to "do things 10 times better" as Jobs put it, and win over that market. In the end, none of my rants matter and most likely this will be a minor proc bump to add better Apple Arcade and AV1 support. Prob HDMI 2.1.

Just the fact that they have done a spec bump would drive a few buyers towards it. Adding a boosted Apple Arcade would be nice selling point too. My TV is ready for a 4k TV streaming experience be it iTunes Store bought movies, Disney Plus or other streaming services.

If Apple Arcade can produce some good multiplayer titles there's a captive audience out there. Fortnite - for example - is available in 120fps on iPad Pro or 60fps in higher quality setting.

Imagine that upscaled to 4k on TV.