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Rumored NFC Chip for iPhone 6 Highlighted in Claimed Schematic

uwdude said:
Jony Ive: With our new payment solution, we wanted to make the experience as seamless and beautifully designed as possible, while allowing the user to carry as little as possible. That's why we've partnered with most retailers to allow payments with our new Beats with iWallet by Dr. Dre, powered by Touch ID. While wearing your exclusive Beats with iWallet, just tap your head against the payment terminal, while touching the Beats logo with your Touch ID registered finger, and you've paid for your purchase. No wallet or phone required. It's a truly exquisite solution that we think you'll love, and gorgeous in design.
Click to expand...

The next day: at Samsung, we've been working on this for so long. We are happy to introduce s-beats the new payment solution exclusive to galaxy phones.

This is not a copy because after all, apple did not invent the cranium, right? Also we have three ear buds, because three is always better than two.
 
Parallels now DOA

With the Beta 6 for OX 10.10.10, Parallels does not load. error message 13581 is displayed. basically you're dead in the water. (FYI)
(MacBook Air mid 2013)
 
Trapezoid said:
The next day: at Samsung, we've been working on this for so long. We are happy to introduce s-beats the new payment solution exclusive to galaxy phones.

This is not a copy because after all, apple did not invent the cranium, right? Also we have three ear buds, because three is always better than two.
Click to expand...

And with S-beats, you can tap two heads together to exchange either money or playlists!
 
Trapezoid said:
Yep, whether or not its right is another debate, but if anyone is going to make nfc mainstream in the US, it's apple. The other companies have been trying for three years.

Of course even when that happens people will still be saying "my insert phone here did this in 2011", not realizing that it was a useless feature when their phone had it (again in the US)
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The US is the last battle field for mobile payments, and it's the biggest:

"In 2012, there were around 500,000 to 700,000 smart technology vending machines in operation in the U.S according to a report by Frost & Sullivan and this number is estimated to increase to 2 Mn by 2018.

In Japan, which has the highest number of users of mobile wallet in the world, 90% of the vending machines are enabled to accept mobile payments; accounting for $50 billion in sales during 2012. This figure was abysmally low in the case of U.S whose vending machine sales account for $15 billion in 2012, since only around 5% of the vending machines accept mobile payments."

The only market Apple can shake up is the US one, the rest of the world has a huge lead. This isn't iPods again. The vendors have to foot the bill for upgrades, and they've already started down that road, they're not going to pay twice for mobile payments unless it's a huge win in terms of new revenue.
 
gotluck said:
dont understand why people wouldnt want an nfc chip

it does not hurt device performance or have any actual impact on battery
and it can be disabled
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Because these are the same sheep that do this:

Apple says no NFC - "NFC is useless tech!"
Apple says yes to NFC - "Thank god Apple shows the world how NFC done!"
 
Say No to the NFC guy...

Can't we just agree, Apple doesn't know what it's doing ?
 
cjmillsnun said:
Basic EMV is Chip and PIN. That's enough to comply with the decree.
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Actually the US EMV route is Chip & Signature, not Chip & PIN. I read that US financial institutions were worried popping 2 new things on people at once - inserting the card instead of swiping and having to enter a PIN. It's still more secure than the mag stripe, but it has already caused headaches for people traveling to Europe with a US card with a chip thinking they would be fine. Many of the automated machines for train tickets, tolls, unattained gas/petrol stations, etc. are only designed for Chip & PIN.

One issue for NFC in the US is that it is limited to purchases of $25 or less. (In Australia, it's $100.) I think the fear there is if someone steals your card, they can do a lot more damage at $100 a pop, vs. $25. However, $25 might limit the places legitimate users would be able to use it frequently.
 
Menel said:
EMV and NFC are not linked.

The upcoming requirements are EMV only. Stores in my area have already begun pulling their old card readers, some with NFC; and replacing them with EMV readers, without NFC.

NFC is vanishing.
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There is nothing in the EMV spec that requires NFC. This is true.. BUT most of the EMV hardware out there comes with NFC/RFID reading built in. Current hardware makes it trivial for POS vendors who support EMV to also support NFC/RFID. The barrier for entry will be minimal.

Canada is an example of a country that has already gone EMV and the ability to support RFID/NFC is everywhere. The phones have not caught up, but the stores all support it.
 
JacksonM404 said:
Actually the US EMV route is Chip &

One issue for NFC in the US is that it is limited to purchases of $25 or less. (In Australia, it's $100.) I think the fear there is if someone steals your card, they can do a lot more damage at $100 a pop, vs. $25. However, $25 might limit the places legitimate users would be able to use it frequently.
Click to expand...
In Canada the limit is 50$ and even that is restrictive. This is one place where conceivably an iphone initiated NFC transaction could be better, say, if it uses touch id for authentication and then there is no transaction limit.
 
Here in the US I have yet to see it used one time, literally.
Matter of fact I bet if you asked the general public here if they had even HEARD of NFC, much less what it can be used for, more than half would say they had never even heard of it.

Though with that said, if Apple actually put it in their devices and had a use for it then I would have no doubt in my mind that it would start to garner more attention and use.
 
Michael Scrip said:
Exactly.

Old MP3 players were either flash players with a tiny amount of storage space... or they were big heavy devices with 2.5" laptop hard drives.

Enter Apple... who decided to use a 1.8" hard drive in the first iPod... for huge capacity and a small physical size.

And this is exactly what Apple is good at. Apple has a knack for turning off-the-shelf parts into a spectacular device.

Toshiba had created a 1.8" hard drive... but they didn't even know what to do with it.

Apple did.

But the iPod wasn't just about the hardware... it was also the iTunes Music Store that had something to do with the iPod's popularity and the evolution of the music industry. Apple could sell you the hardware and sell you music too.

Most companies couldn't do that.

We might see the same sort of thing happen in the mobile payments industry. Lots of companies have phones with NFC chips... but very few have their own payment infrastructure.

Apple does.

Who knows... Apple could launch "ApplePay" and have a complete solution for buying things with your phone. Apple has what... 800 million credit cards on file already? It's certainly within the realm of possibility.

Once again... that's what Apple is good at... taking an off-the-shelf technology (NFC chips) and integrating it with their own technology (iTunes payments)

Very few companies can provide such a complete solution.
Click to expand...

If Apple does indeed introduce a secure mobile payment system that the industry adopts that can only be used on Apple devices guess what, more reason to have an iPhone or "miss out" on being able to pay for stuff with your phone.
 
iSee said:
NFC in the iPhone would really surprise me.

Low energy Bluetooth seems like a superior technology for a powered device and it doesn't seem like there is enough momentum behind any NFC-based infrastructure (at least here in the US) to force Apple's hand.

I guess we'll see soon enough.
Click to expand...

There are ALOT of NFC-based payment systems all around the world, but no iBeacon-based payment systems. Do you really think that it would be easier to get rid of all NFC payment terminals and replace them with Apple-only technology? Just because some people want one extra chip (that doesn't even consume battery unless used) on their precious iPhones..
 
Armen said:
If Apple does indeed introduce a secure mobile payment system that the industry adopts that can only be used on Apple devices guess what, more reason to have an iPhone or "miss out" on being able to pay for stuff with your phone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, NOT going to happen. It'll have to be able to be used on all devices. Now the iPhone might have the advantage of itouch but that's it.
 
TroyBoy30 said:
nice but doesnt make up for 1 gig of ram or lack of 1080p
Click to expand...

Apple probably will up the resolution- close to 1080p. But 1080p in a smartphone that is smaller than 5" is a gimmick and nothing more than that. Apple's "retina" branding means the pixels are so small, the human eye cannot see them. As the screen size will increase, so will the resolution- probably to just under 1080p. Apple doesn't need to up the resolution to 1080p as the visual improvement wouldn't change much... the colour accuracy will improve a bit. But nothing more than that. The iPhone 6, like previous retina iDevices, will not be pixelated.

----------
Michael Scrip said:
Exactly.

Old MP3 players were either flash players with a tiny amount of storage space... or they were big heavy devices with 2.5" laptop hard drives.

Enter Apple... who decided to use a 1.8" hard drive in the first iPod... for huge capacity and a small physical size.

And this is exactly what Apple is good at. Apple has a knack for turning off-the-shelf parts into a spectacular device.

Toshiba had created a 1.8" hard drive... but they didn't even know what to do with it.

Apple did.

But the iPod wasn't just about the hardware... it was also the iTunes Music Store that had something to do with the iPod's popularity and the evolution of the music industry. Apple could sell you the hardware and sell you music too.

Most companies couldn't do that.

We might see the same sort of thing happen in the mobile payments industry. Lots of companies have phones with NFC chips... but very few have their own payment infrastructure.

Apple does.

Who knows... Apple could launch "ApplePay" and have a complete solution for buying things with your phone. Apple has what... 800 million credit cards on file already? It's certainly within the realm of possibility.

Once again... that's what Apple is good at... taking an off-the-shelf technology (NFC chips) and integrating it with their own technology (iTunes payments)

Very few companies can provide such a complete solution.
Click to expand...

Nicely said! :apple:
 
SirLance99 said:
Yeah, NOT going to happen. It'll have to be able to be used on all devices. Now the iPhone might have the advantage of itouch but that's it.
Click to expand...

Apple can do whatever they want with the iphone 6 and future devices without having to port every functionality back to a previous generation of devices.
 
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Rumored NFC Chip for iPhone 6 Highlighted in Claimed Schematic

psycosis said:
There is nothing in the EMV spec that requires NFC. This is true.. BUT most of the EMV hardware out there comes with NFC/RFID reading built in. Current hardware makes it trivial for POS vendors who support EMV to also support NFC/RFID. The barrier for entry will be minimal.



Canada is an example of a country that has already gone EMV and the ability to support RFID/NFC is everywhere. The phones have not caught up, but the stores all support it.
Click to expand...


Verifone is probably the largest supplier of payment devices in the USA, the stores that are upgrading to their EMV reader, do not have NFC built in.

Some stores have discarded their Verifone NFC readers and replaced with Verifone EMV readers. NFC is being phased out.
 
Armen said:
Apple can do whatever they want with the iphone 6 and future devices without having to port every functionality back to a previous generation of devices.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point. Apple will have to use whatever systems that are already in place. They can't just create a new system that no retailers have in place. So NFC is the logical way.
 
I still find it easier to to transfer from my Palm Pilot to other people's Palm Pil...

Wait. Nevermind.
 
twigman08 said:
Here in the US I have yet to see it used one time, literally.
Click to expand...

I suspect most people wouldn't know what "NFC" means. But, a few more might recognize "Paywave" (MasterCard) or "Paypass" (VISA) and know what it means.

However, I think the number of people that even know what the symbol on their credit card means (it looks like the WiFi signal icon on the iPhone, turned sideways) is still relatively small.

I've used "PayPass" at several places. But, an NFC terminal has been relatively rare.
 
Menel said:
Verifone is probably the largest supplier of payment devices in the USA, the stores that are upgrading to their EMV reader, do not have NFC built in.

Some stores have discarded their Verifone NFC readers and replaced with Verifone EMV readers. NFC is being phased out.
Click to expand...

Verifone website - EMV countertop readers. 3 of 4 mention NFC capability on this page alone.

http://www.verifone.com/solutions-services/emv/
 
Last edited:
My educated guess right now: iPhone6 will have NFC. And it will have a secure element, despite Apple having their own "secure enclave".

I don't think Apple really wanted to use NFC. They could perhaps have built a superior experience with iBeacons alone. The problem for Apple is that NFC capable payment terminals are rolling out on a massive scale worldwide, and I think their market share is too small to push an Apple-proprietary alternative, at least outside the US.

The market in the US is special; NFC payments are hardly a thing here, and even those stores that have NFC-capable terminals like Best Buy still turn off NFC functionality (why is a long story...). But if you go outside the US, it becomes more clear that NFC is a standard that is hard to avoid. Canada, the UK, Poland, Turkey, Australia and Japan are just some examples of countries where contactless payment is big, and growing very fast.

So Apple really had two options:
1) Exclusively push their own proprietary solution based on iBeacons. It would probably be awesome, but the problem is that it would require merchants to buy hardware capable of supporting Apple's proprietary tech. Perhaps Apple could pull that off in the US, but it's hard to see merchants investing in it outside the US where their market share is in the 10-15% range. And let's not forget that merchants deploying new payment hardware is not an easy thing: it requires buying and installing hardware, training employees, maintenance and a lot more. Apple would have to come up with an insane value add to justify it - though I'm sure they're working on it ;)

2) Use NFC technology; perhaps not the user experience they were looking for, but good (and rapidly increasing) world-wide acceptance, and the possibility to complement it with their iBeacon-based solution over time.

My only remaining question is whether they will limit NFC functionality to countries where it's already big, and disable it in countries like the US, so they can push their own solution there instead. It would be a weird move, but somehow also Apple-like :)

Finally, why does Apple need a secure element when they have a "secure enclave"? Because secure elements can be completely powered by the field that is generated by an NFC reader, even when the battery of your phone is dead. Secure Enclave, being embedded in the power hungry A7/A8 CPU, could never be powered that way. Having a secure element would allow Apple to support transit use cases, where "omg my battery is dead how do I exit the subway after I entered with my phone" is a real thing to worry about :)

Of course I could be wrong; I think not shipping NFC this year would be a big risk for Apple, but they're known to do such things ;-)
 
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