S E R E N I T Y

[Benjamin]

Well finally got time to see it... i think this will sum up my feelings.

The Ballad of Joss

Joss, the man they call Joss . . .

He wrote about spaceships and shepherds and whores,
Stood up to the networks and gave ‘em what for.
Fox cancelled his program, but that was their loss--
The creator of Firefly, the man they call Joss!

Our Joss saw the viewers’ hearts breakin’,
He heard the Browncoats’ lament,
He saw the Fox network takin’,
His show in a way that made no sense.
(He said) “You can’t do that to my program,
Can’t grind it under your heel.”
So he took all the cast,
And now at last,
They’ve landed a Big Damn Movie deal!

He wrote about spaceships and shepherds and whores,
Stood up to the networks and gave ‘em what for.
Fox cancelled his program, but that was their loss--
The creator of Firefly, the man they call Joss!

Now here is what separates Whedon,
From writers who slave in the core,
The man they call Joss,
Well, he said to Fox,
“I’m going where no show has gone before.”
He told us about reavers,
He told us about sin,
He took us to the black,
And we ain’t comin’ back,
‘till all those crazy Browncoats rise again!

He wrote about spaceships and shepherds and whores,
Stood up to the networks and gave ‘em what for.
Fox cancelled his program, but that was their loss--
The creator of Firefly, the man they call Joss!

Now, here is what separates Firefly
From other shows you’re likely to see—
It’s meaningful and witty,
And the setting’s really gritty,
And the theme song is about Serenity.
It’s a little like a western,
And a little like X-Files,
It’s better than Trek,
And funnier than Shrek,
And it beats out Andromeda by miles!

He wrote about spaceships and shepherds and whores,
Stood up to the networks and gave ‘em what for.
Fox cancelled his program, but that was their loss--
The creator of Firefly, the man they call Joss!

--James Hazlerig
fithelere@aol.com
http://www.BedlamBards.com

http://mp3-postcards.com/listen/?888

 

[Skareb]

Looking forward to seeing it tonight,

Caution: watch out for the zoom lense

Jordan

 

[Piarco]

This thread is fine to read, it is nearly completely spoiler free. I can only think of one spoiler in it and it's not a huge one. This thread is the one you want to avoid until tonight.

Cool! I'll give it a read whilst looking like I'm doing some work then

Caution: watch out for the zoom lense

Jordan

Mmmm...... Now I'm even more curious!

 

[Skareb]

you'll know what I mean

 

[nagromme]

I was interested beforehand after seeing the trailers (and I do like my sci-fi) despite never seeing Firefly, but the 9 min sold it for me, and more bizarrely my housemate

Keep working on her GOOD sci-fi is too rare. (I think it's interesting that I keep hearing of people who see the movie because they liked the first 9 minutes posted online--while I myself think that's the least interesting part of the film! Although not bad by any means.)

I'm not sure what he means by the zoom lens, although I'm sure the camera work used some zooms... now I'm curious...

He wrote about spaceships and shepherds and whores,
Stood up to the networks and gave ‘em what for.
Fox cancelled his program, but that was their loss--
The creator of Firefly, the man they call Joss!

To the tune of The Hero of Canton?

Well said

BTW, an interview here that sounds hopeful for sequels, though we won't know soon:
http://www.empireonline.co.uk/interviews_and_events/interview.asp?IID=291
(Note to newcomers: the movie does have an ending, it's not like Fellowship of the Ring--we want sequels because they'd be fun, not because there's no ending )

Joss also mentions that when the money types leave him ALONE to CREATE, they tend to make more money than when they interfere. Hope he drives that point home!

 

[arn]

I haven't put my 2 cents in this thread yet.

I saw the trailers to serenity a while back, thought it looked interesting. mentioned it to a friend and he told me that it was a TV series... so I watched the entire series over 3-4 days and went to see the movie that weekend.

Big fan of the series and the movie. I've told lots of friends about it to go see it. I very much want to see a sequel.

arn

 

[Badradio]

Never knew that Gina Torres was married to Laurence Fishburne...

On a less random note, I only found out today just how badly the initial airing of the show in the US was messed up. I knew that they showed "Serenity" last, once the series was actually getting some ratings, but they didn't broadcast "Trash", "The Message" or "Heart of Gold" at all in the first run, and the episodes they did show weren't even in the right order. I hear lots of US fans saying how they were hooked after seeing "Our Mrs Reynolds" - not "Shindig" which was the point when I was totally into the show. Found out that they showed "Shindig" later in the run than it appears on the DVDs. It's almost as if someone tried to bury the show on purpose...

 

[clayj]

"Our Mrs Reynolds"

Oh, yeah. Wish she'd've been in more episodes...

 

[Badradio]

Oh, yeah. Wish she'd've been in more episodes...

She was - in Trash. It's no wonder the DVD sold so well...

 

[nagromme]

It's almost as if someone tried to bury the show on purpose...

Fox DID definitely do exactly that! They promised advertisers an audience of young men, and advertised it like it was a sitcom with a rock soundtrack. (When in fact it's a drama with a folk soundtrack!) They dumbed it down by insisting that people wouldn't sit through a double-length pilot, and told Joss Whedon on FRIDAY NIGHT that they were going to scrap the existing pilot and demanded a new "short pilot" be written by MONDAY MORNING. One in which everyone was already on board Serenity--jump into the criminal action instead of "getting to know the crew." That turned into a perfectly good episode, but it only made sense in the middle, not at the beginning.

People were confused right from the start by the incorrect episode order. And the audience that got past that and loved it was a widely varied one. That makes it GOOD TV, but it doesn't make it the mindless gun-fest delivering the masses of young men that advertisers had been promised.

So my understanding is that Fox, who never really understood the product Joss was creating, soon decided to kill the show rather than deal with finding different advertisers. The were unwilling to risk any more airtime and let the show build the huge following it would have over time. So they shifted the timeslot around (which always loses viewers) and ran Firefly in the "Friday night death slot" (8PM?). And I think they even ran it against something really popular (sports?) from another network.

They never marketed it is as what it really WAS, and were never interested in giving something new a chance. The "same old" was their bread and butter in the Nielsen rating.

Joss Whedon was used to being let alone to create his vision by UPN and WB--which is why those networks made good money off of quality TV from him! It's great that Joss Whedon found those two smaller, newer networks, willing to take some risks. But Fox just didn't work that way.

When you think of TV as being designed SOLEY to deliver targeted demographics to advertisers, you don't wonder why it's often SO bad. Risk taking and creativity are dirty words. Crediting the audience with some intelligence? Never! But that's always been Joss's thing, from Buffy (show, not movie) to today: he credits you with some intelligence to understand why characters do the things they do. You quickly KNOW the character, and so his/her actions speak for themselves. Joss doesn't have to hit you over the head with little "exposition speeches" like The West Wing or Law & Order.

(And again I have to mention the new Battlestar Galactica--it too is not afraid to be subtle. And of course, Firefly is back on TV--in reruns--on the same night and channel as the new BSG. Sadly, I cannot claim that the Sci-Fi channel in general is about quality Most of their shows seem pretty poor. But BSG and FF stand out.)

My favorite Firefly episodes: "Out of Gas," "The Message," and "Trash." I'm inclined to keep listing, but then I'd just be listing all 4 discs I was hooked from "Serenity" when they deployed the Crybaby. The hovertrain heist in "The Train Job" sealed the deal.

It's great that the movie is drawing new Firefly fans (like arn). I think it's drawing a LOT of them, and will keep on doing so. Like the movie, it's something that a wide range of people get into quickly and just have fun watching.

And the DVDs are worth owning--re-watch value is high. You appreciate even more the second time, and some of the commentary is pretty interesting. (Plus it cracks me up when the actors discuss in a serious tone just how difficult it was to park that huge spaceship on a given day of shooting.)

 

[Piarco]

After watching Serenity last night I came out with one question in mind: WHY ON EARTH WAS THIS SHOW CANCELLED

Its a great example of how sci-fi can be - not the cuddly way Star Trek has gone - but gritty and character led, more realistic if you will (like my favourite Battlestar Galactica). Whiteout bit Its a shame that Wash had to be sacrificed though... just on the off chance that some person with intelligence in the TV business decides to try and ressurect the series
I liked it. Great characters, snappy and funny dialogue, and good fx.... why Fox, why? (Well I know why from nagromme's post, but still the question should be asked)

I'll be buying the box set of the show this month. It was evident at points there were in-jokes, and the depth of some of the characters wasn't as easily accessible as the others (due to them being fleshed out in the show) but it was a minor quibble. My housemate enjoyed it too!

Now either I'm slow (never!) but I didn't get the zoom lense bit. I told my housemate about it and she reckons it was something to do with one of the female characters.....

 

[nagromme]

Yes, BSG and Firefly go together in my mind somehow, despite being totally different shows that appeal in very different ways. Maybe it's that the 3D effects for both shows (and Serenity) are by Zoic (Done with Lightwave BTW.) Zoic is the guys doing the handheld-shoot look for the 3D work, and I really like it.

Don't forget to see the movie tonight (Thu) if you haven't... it may be the last chance at some theaters. Movies change on Friday.

 

[nagromme]

Another good (but spoiler warning!) making-of article:
http://millimeter.com/mag/video_tight_ship/

It asks, "How did the filmmakers behind Universal's Serenity produce a high-end, science-fiction epic for the big screen without access to Star Wars-type money?"

Answers: no big-name stars sucking away budget from the rest of the movie, highly efficient directing by Joss Whedon (little waste, few re-dos), and a whole team of people from animators to camera operators who were really good at their respective crafts.

I'm continuing to see people renting/buying Firefly because the movie caught their attention... and LOVING it, but NOT seeing the movie because they want to see FF first (which isn't necessary, but I'd want to also). In other words, the movie hasn't made a dime off them, but the Firefly DVDs are instead! Of course they plan to see the movie too, but by the time they've watched all 4 FF DVDs, the movie's probably out of theaters. Guess they'll have to wait for the Serenity DVD.

I don't know how common that is, but for a number of people I know, that's a factor that would have reduced initial ticket sales. People didn't go on the first weekend BECAUSE they WERE interested. An unusual situation. It really seems like Serenity could have had great long-term momentum in theaters, but just wasn't given that chance. The DVDs will have that chance, though.

PS, I like the theories about Reaver intelligence and culture in the Firefly Talk podcast

 

[sprstu]

I think the best part about the series and movie as a whole is, that all the characters LIVE it. It isnt like Tom Cruise moving to asia for a fewmonths durring filming, then never wanted to go back, these people have been working together for so long that they just gell. All their movments and words flow so effertlessly around eachother, like they all grew up together. None of them, besides Zoey and Wash had been in film before (that I knwo of) so they were all learning togethe about living the series, not just acting.

 

[nagromme]

They also live the story because the spaceship is real!

It's virtually (maybe totally) unheard of for an entire sci-fi spaceship 200 feet long to actually EXIST as a single set, with every room, corridor and ladder all connecting, and all (as the Signal Poscast points out) fitting the shape of the outside hull.

The TV show had the upper decks as one 200-foot set, and the lower decks as another (shot in a way that made them seem to be stacked), but the movie sure seemed to be all one SINGLE set: the first shot of Serenity is a continuous 5-min or so shot starting outside the ship and then moving through every area, and dialog with all the crew. One long shot, and I think it really was shot that way.

And the ship isn't an open, "fake" set--every wall and ceiling is there, and the needed lighting is built into the ship, not hiding out of sight on rigs. Nothing to break the illusion when you're standing in the set.

So, as mentioned in the DVD commentary, the actors (and writers) would just roam the actual ship for inspiration. Not something you could do on Star Trek. Maybe they had a few rooms, but no sense of how the ship connected and functioned as a whole.

A while back someone posted early sketches of Serenity, and how every area of the ship intentionally has its own color scheme that echoes the personality of the character who lives/works there. Kaylee's engine room is warm colors, as is the dining room. Inara's shuttle is reds and golds. The infirmary is cool blues. The cargo bay is businesslike metal. Etc.

Now, I might ask why the passenger dorms are in the engine area... that spinning ring sure looks radioactive to me

And am I crazy, or did the movie show two new rooms that were never seen in Firefly? The room off of the kitchen, of course, but also I thought I saw Mal in one brief scene, thinking alone in a dark storeroom or something. Maybe one of those doors off of the catwalks in the cargo bay? At first I thought it might be the common area between the dorms and the infirmary, but I'm thinking it was someplace else.

I just think it's cool to have a real, complete plan for a sci-fi ship. Has that been done before?

 

[Badradio]

the first shot of Serenity is a continuous 5-min or so shot starting outside the ship and then moving through every area, and dialog with all the crew. One long shot, and I think it really was shot that way.

Did anyone notice when Mal and Simon are walking down the stairs to the infirmary in that shot, that when the camera follows them it swings out and around them to follow them down the second flight of stairs, but there's no way it could have because - as was previously shown in the same shot with no cut - the outer wall of the ship is in the way? Either I got disoriented as the shot continued, or it was a fantastic use of virtual camera techniques to make an unfilmable shot filmable. I love that stuff - what cgi should be used for. Need to see it again to check though.

Also, anyone downloaded the Mosquito fan movie yet? Very corny, but some of the lines made me laugh: "They're not going to show the pilot!?!"

 

[nagromme]

I didn't notice that, but you saying that makes me think the ship WAS built as separate upper and lower levels, even for the movie. Halfway down the stairs would be the point at which one long shot would have to transition to the other--and maybe a chance to play some camera tricks.

Or, maybe they just pulled out a panel to make room at that instant

Either way, one 200-foot set or two, it's still a fully connected layout with no mystery about how to get from place to place.

This isn't official--I found it online--but I think it's pretty close:

 

[Badradio]

Thanks for posting that - been looking for a layout for a while, although there does seem to be an extra set of stairs on the lower level that isn't going anywhere (to the left of the infirmary).

I know that the TV set was on two levels, but not sure about the movie. I think the trickery in the passageway was just an issue of mechanics; you can't light/manoeuvre in a corridor that narrow, so just knock the wall out and replace it with a cgi one later. There was probably a lighting gantry on the other side of the wall. It was definitely worth it though; that steadycam sequence was fantastic.

 

[nagromme]

Those stairs are there, actually. You never see where they come out on top--somewhere behind the kitchen I suppose. (There are areas you never see into.) But I think you see someone coming down them, or sitting on them, or something (in the DVDs).

That map doesn't show the upper catwalks of the cargo bay, and so both shuttles are missing. I think their airlocks connect near the front/top of the cargo bay.

I also wouldn't say the map is to scale--the cargo bay ought to be about the widest thing there is, even when you subtract the smuggling compartments at the sides.

 

[nagromme]

Reminder: Firefly marathon Wednesday night on Sci Fi. (Was on Tuesday too.) Not all the episodes, just 4.

They started the series over on Fridays too I think.

But I see Sci Fi is censoring them! Tonight they muted Jayne's comment that River's cooking "smells like crotch." What? It was good enough for prime time on Fox! And then came prolonged uncensored torture and prostitution scenes

 

[Mord]

Reminder: Firefly marathon Wednesday night on Sci Fi. (Was on Tuesday too.) Not all the episodes, just 4.

They started the series over on Fridays too I think.

But I see Sci Fi is censoring them! Tonight they muted Jayne's comment that River's cooking "smells like crotch." What? It was good enough for prime time on Fox! And then came prolonged uncensored torture and prostitution scenes

that never made it to my box set, in mine river never cooks.

 

[nagromme]

The box set I borrowed is complete--but it could have been Simon or someone else cooking something for River. Anyway, Simon told River it was good, and Jayne said otherwise... Something like that.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

so any word yet on whether or not there will be any more movies in the series?

D

 

[Thanatoast]

Sadly, I think the movie lost money, at least according to IMDB. One can hope that it'll pull a Star Trek - that a cult following eventually revives the show or movies, but we may not get it. We may have to be satisfied with the golden pieces of wit and philosophy we've already got.

 

[Sayhey]

Ok, I'm hooked. Saw the movie, then bought the DVDs of the series. Please will someone pick up this series so I can see more!