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Samsung Confirmed to Produce A9 Chips for Apple's Next-Generation Devices

No point fixing something that isn't broken. Samsung makes good components, so why not continue using them? I just wish Apple would use their Super AMOLED screens. I love the deep colours and deep blacks. Plus if iOS ever got a real dark mode then we could look forward to better battery life too.
 
RockSpider said:
I'm getting confused, I thought we hated anything to do with Samsung.
Click to expand...

Only when anything is at odds with Apple. When Apple is endorsing anything- even if it was formerly (or even currently) at odds with anything- we flip it back to love. The primary rule is:
-whatever Apple is against or is against Apple, we're against.
-whatever Apple is for or is for Apple, we're for.

Classic Examples:
-Patent system is broken when a patent is working against Apple. Patents are meant "to protect intellectual capital" when a patent is working for Apple.
-Analyst is stupid when he says something negative about Apple. Analyst is quoted and referenced when he says something positive.
-Big screen phones are abominations, stupid, "99% don't want" when Apple is endorsing small screens. Then Apple goes to big screens and they are the "best iPhones ever".
-NFC is a gimmick, 99% don't need, "my credit cards work fine" when Apple doesn't implement it. Then Apple implements it and we want to boycott stores who won't let us pay with Apple pay.

Personally, I'm with many here who know that Samsung makes great guts for Apple hardware. I'd much rather get any Apple product built upon Samsung guts than hope for "as good" with someone else's. Glad to see this for the next iPhone.
 
mabhatter said:
Because making chips is HARD. You put a billion dollars up front and hope your engineers get it right or you get squat. There's no prize for making a 16 nm chip now, that's last year's model.
Click to expand...

It's more like $10 billion these days.

But, the rewards can be great indeed if they do decide to build their own fab.

In particular, if they invest heavily in R&D, they may be able to leapfrog other vendors' technologies.

If they start now they would be looking at 5nm. I doubt other vendors are going to hit that within 5 years.

Offering a CPU/GPU/DRAM/FLASH built with a technology process node a generation ahead of other vendors is a compelling advantage.

But if you think of process technology as a commodity, where you and your competitors have equal technology, then, yes, using an outside foundry is more efficient.

Building a fab all depends on if you think you can invest enough in R&D to leapfrog the standard foundries. It's all just R&D investment money at this point (process development is expensive.. you need to run thousands of experiments to get at the right process..)
 
xARx2 said:
With the funds Apple has, why don't they build a plant for in-house manufacturing of chips?
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Well that because they don't care about Apple's future, they only care about profits! Why Tim Cook care about Steve Jobs's company?

I am long time Samsung hater, but even i have to admit that the Samsung Galaxy S6 and Edge is better than iPhone 6 - Plus..why do you think Apple starts working directly on iPhone 7? because they are afraid..they know they can't compete the same iPhone 6 design

also i know Steve Jobs flaws, but please don't compare him with others..he was so much better!
 
JeffyTheQuik said:
Fairchild has been resurrected to build the A10...
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I love the A-10. The epitome of the perfect combat airplane. Cheap, rugged, and you'd better pray to your deity of choice that you're not on the business end of its depleted uranium-spewing GAU-8. Anyway...

mozumder said:
It's more like $10 billion these days.

But, the rewards can be great indeed if they do decide to build their own fab.

In particular, if they invest heavily in R&D, they may be able to leapfrog other vendors' technologies.

If they start now they would be looking at 5nm. I doubt other vendors are going to hit that within 5 years.

Offering a CPU/GPU/DRAM/FLASH built with a technology process node a generation ahead of other vendors is a compelling advantage.

But if you think of process technology as a commodity, where you and your competitors have equal technology, then, yes, using an outside foundry is more efficient.

Building a fab all depends on if you think you can invest enough in R&D to leapfrog the standard foundries. It's all just R&D investment money at this point (process development is expensive.. you need to run thousands of experiments to get at the right process..)
Click to expand...

The thing is, it's not just a matter of matching Samsung or Intel's fab process (and just as importantly, their fab capacity). It's also a matter of matching and/or exceeding what they have coming in their roadmap, and that takes a huge amount of money and expertise -- more than even Apple could possibly muster (short of them gaining a coup and hiring all of Intel/Samsung's chief engineers).
 
RockSpider said:
No not everything, just the idea that they are beyond reproach and that they have invented everything and make everything better than everyone else. Apart from those things I do actually own Apple products.
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Almost nobody on these forums has those opinions, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

I just found it interesting that you commented about people hating Samsung when you can't seem to say a positive word about Apple.
 
rampancy said:
I love the A-10. The epitome of the perfect combat airplane. Cheap, rugged, and you'd better pray to your deity of choice that you're not on the business end of its depleted uranium-spewing GAU-8. Anyway...



The thing is, it's not just a matter of matching Samsung or Intel's fab process (and just as importantly, their fab capacity). It's also a matter of matching and/or exceeding what they have coming in their roadmap, and that takes a huge amount of money and expertise -- more than even Apple could possibly muster (short of them gaining a coup and hiring all of Intel/Samsung's chief engineers).
Click to expand...

With my limited understanding of the semiconductor fabbing business, the idea of a fab company having their own process is pretty much meaningless these days because the Big Three (Samsung, Intel, TSMC) all uses the same tools by from the same supplier such as ASML in an incestuous relationship in order to mitigate the increasingly huge risks and costs in process shrinking. So unless Apple has a competitive advantage in tooling which is waaaaaaaaaay out of their comfort zone there is really no point for fabbing their own chips when these the industry is already doing the hard work out of necessity, especially considering when fab-king Intel has 14nm delays all the damn time.
 
YouKnow1000 said:
Well that because they don't care about Apple's future, they only care about profits! Why Tim Cook care about Steve Jobs's company?

I am long time Samsung hater, but even i have to admit that the Samsung Galaxy S6 and Edge is better than iPhone 6 - Plus..why do you think Apple starts working directly on iPhone 7? because they are afraid..they know they can't compete the same iPhone 6 design

also i know Steve Jobs flaws, but please don't compare him with others..he was so much better!
Click to expand...

Apple's future? OMG.

Do you know the lifetime of an IC plant?

18 months. At best

And that's it, after that, it's obsolete tech. The thing is that Samsung makes high-end things, but also mid-end and low-end, so they can continue to milk their obsolete technology for less important IC's.
 
YouKnow1000 said:
Well that because they don't care about Apple's future, they only care about profits! Why Tim Cook care about Steve Jobs's company?

I am long time Samsung hater, but even i have to admit that the Samsung Galaxy S6 and Edge is better than iPhone 6 - Plus..why do you think Apple starts working directly on iPhone 7? because they are afraid..they know they can't compete the same iPhone 6 design

also i know Steve Jobs flaws, but please don't compare him with others..he was so much better!
Click to expand...

New account... hmmmm..
 
xARx2 said:
With the funds Apple has, why don't they build a plant for in-house manufacturing of chips?
Click to expand...

You really think they haven't considered this? Bottom line, I'm sure their analysis showed that it wouldn't be as profitable as outsourcing. They're not a manufacturing company.
 
Confused???

Title: Samsung Confirmed to Produce A9 Chips for Apple's Next-Generation Devices


Samsung will start making Apple A9 processor chips at its Giheung plant in South Korea, the people said, asking not to be identified because the contract hasn't been discussed publicly.


Wuut?
 
FlatCable said:
Apple's future? OMG.

Do you know the lifetime of an IC plant?

18 months. At best

And that's it, after that, it's obsolete tech. The thing is that Samsung makes high-end things, but also mid-end and low-end, so they can continue to milk their obsolete technology for less important IC's.
Click to expand...

i agree, you do make a point

but what happens in the near-future when FoxBots or 3D printing becomes usefull and Foxconn no longer needs people or Apple to build their own smartphones?
 
Agent-P said:
No point fixing something that isn't broken. Samsung makes good components, so why not continue using them? I just wish Apple would use their Super AMOLED screens. I love the deep colours and deep blacks. Plus if iOS ever got a real dark mode then we could look forward to better battery life too.
Click to expand...

Exactly, the arrangement has worked well so far with Samsung. I also hope iOS gets a dark mode someday and it might take some quality AMOLED panels (re-branded super retina or something like that) to achieve that.
 
Doesn't Samsung Foundry sell IP? How would they NOT end up reversing Apple's GDSII for 'inspiration'?

A recent presentation had TSMC saying how they do not sell IP so your designs are safe with them (without specifically calling out any names...)
 
I read that Bloomberg blog. But it has way too many factual errors and not enough credibility. The blog writers Jungah Lee and Ian King did not do their homework. There is no independent collaboration of the fact from other technology analysts either.

First of all, the article cite TSMC CEO, Morris Chang's quote that TSMC was falling behind in terms of N16. But that comment was from 2 financial quarters back from an investor meeting. Not only is that comment current anymore; the writers also did not cite latest March yield result from analysts.

The blog also cited that to spread risk Apple also contracted 14nm Global Foundaries which "licensed 14nm technology from Samsung." That is just plain incorrect. The 14nm technology that both Samsung and Global Foundaries uses was developed by IBM Microelectronics. Samsung and Global Foundaries (formerly AMD) joined IBM to combat the dominance of TSMC about ~10 years ago. Recently Global Foundaries has agreed to purchase IBM Microelectronics now that IBM is getting out of the chip business, so all of the 14nm patents now belongs to Global Foundries. In fact Samsung has to pay a license fee to Global Foundries going forward.

Based on these two facts, I think these Bloomberg blog writers don't understand enough about the semiconductor business to make a credible comment. There are not multiple analysts from different security firms commenting on the same thing is a big red flag.
 
Last edited:
HobeSoundDarryl said:
Only when anything is at odds with Apple. When Apple is endorsing anything- even if it was formerly (or even currently) at odds with anything- we flip it back to love. The primary rule is:
-whatever Apple is against or is against Apple, we're against.
-whatever Apple is for or is for Apple, we're for.

Classic Examples:
-Patent system is broken when a patent is working against Apple. Patents are meant "to protect intellectual capital" when a patent is working for Apple.
-Analyst is stupid when he says something negative about Apple. Analyst is quoted and referenced when he says something positive.
-Big screen phones are abominations, stupid, "99% don't want" when Apple is endorsing small screens. Then Apple goes to big screens and they are the "best iPhones ever".
-NFC is a gimmick, 99% don't need, "my credit cards work fine" when Apple doesn't implement it. Then Apple implements it and we want to boycott stores who won't let us pay with Apple pay.

Personally, I'm with many here who know that Samsung makes great guts for Apple hardware. I'd much rather get any Apple product built upon Samsung guts than hope for "as good" with someone else's. Glad to see this for the next iPhone.
Click to expand...
Now you get where I'm coming from.
 
astroboy888 said:
The blog also cited that to spread risk Apple also contracted 14nm Global Foundaries which "licensed 14nm technology from Samsung." That is just plain incorrect. The 14nm technology that both Samsung and Global Foundaries uses was developed by IBM Microelectronics. Samsung and Global Foundaries (formerly AMD) joined IBM to combat the dominance of TSMC about ~10 years ago. Recently Global Foundaries has agreed to purchase IBM Microelectronics now that IBM is getting out of the chip business, so all of the 14nm patents now belongs to Global Foundries. In fact Samsung has to pay a license fee to Global Foundries going forward.
Click to expand...

Are you sure this is correct? According to a press release from last year, Global Foundries indicated that this was a Samsung developed technology that they licensed.

Developed by Samsung and licensed to GLOBALFOUNDRIES, the 14nm FinFET process is based on a technology platform that has already gained traction as the leading choice for high-volume, power-efficient system-on-chip (SoC) designs.
Click to expand...

http://www.globalfoundries.com/news...ering-of-14nm-finfet-semiconductor-technology
 
RockSpider said:
I'm getting confused, I thought we hated anything to do with Samsung.
Click to expand...
We're at war with TSMC. We've always been at war with TSMC. We're allied with Samsung.
mabhatter said:
[...]You buy a Galaxy, they win... You buy an iPhone they still win a little less cause most of the important parts they make. [...]
Click to expand...
I'd be curious to know what the profit difference is between selling their own devices, and supplying components to Apple. Revenue difference is huge, I'm sure, but profit might be closer than we'd expect.

I don't know the numbers, and I assume there's more profit in the phone, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me the opposite was true...
 
MacVista said:
Nice of Apple to give work, money and ideas to its main competitor.
Click to expand...

It's actually the other way around. It's nice of Samsung to continue to help Apple be the dominate mobile brand. Apple has Samsung to thank for taking up like 90% of smart phone profits. Thank you Samsung!
 
Tubamajuba said:
Almost nobody on these forums has those opinions, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

I just found it interesting that you commented about people hating Samsung when you can't seem to say a positive word about Apple.
Click to expand...

Your first paragraph may need re-writing.
RS does say positive things about Apple as well as some negative things. Generally, that’s the mark of a balanced opinion. They don’t blindly praise/ignore flaws.
 
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