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Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Oct 3, 2017.
Attitudes like this give Apple users a bad rep.
I recall Microsoft introducing the term "Mixed Reality" to try to distinguish and uniquely brand their Hololens, rather than just call it AR (which it is).
But now they are 'announcing' the MR platform, which is just VR.
So they are trying to rebrand VR as MR? And AR as MR? Or are they trying to say that MR is AR and/or VR?
Some hands-on reviews state that it has absolutely no screen door effect and reaches a level of clarity not seen much in the VR headset world. Things seem to be looking up for this virtual reality gear.
What did you use really? HTC Vive? Oculus? Microsoft HoloLens? The Samsung Mixed Reality device is not out yet even though the tech already exists regardless.
I've tried the Vive and have had no issues using it despite my astigmatism.
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The use of Mixed Reality headsets is far more practical than holding up a phone for AR. I just tried Knightfall AR for iOS on my iPad Pro and it was a bit awkward since it was on my low japanese table holding it up for a while. Now if this was goggle based with the AR app streaming to it from the phone or tablet/laptop, while the hands are interacting with the environment, that would've made sense in 3D space in front of it, NOT on the screen.
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Apple Watch is the most popular watch in the world above Rolex now. For the Smart Watch industry it has the highest sales, most profit, highest user satisfaction & the biggest Apps EcoSystem via the Apple App Store.
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Exclusive features included Blue Screen Of Death, Virus Prone & Spontaneous Combustion!
I've tried several 3D technologies over the years and none work for me. I think the last one was an Oculus Rift a friend had.
It's a statistic, not a gloated award. That was the point of the comparison.
If you're looking for a reliable store of value, let me suggest a savings account, or US Treasuries, or maybe a Picasso. Watches are either utilitarian or conspicuous consumption-- or a bit of both. By that measure, the Apple Watch obviously compares well to the Rolex for a lot of buyers.
Wait... How did Samsung/Windows/Mixed Reality become an Apple Watch bashing thread? Oh right... Mac Rumors...
problem is before that kind of technology isn't where it would be a reality. We are in that technology time that it can be.
Glad you are able to find current products to point out, like the Pippin (1996), and the iPod HiFi (2006). Not sure why you put the most profitable watch made by anyone on that list though.
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I have played with the Rift and I own a Vive. I have seen a few pieces of great content, some good content and a great deal of crap (just like 3D). I do find it uncomfortable after 20 or thirty minutes of use. Despite that, for me it is not really about the technology, it is mostly about the content.
Mine is siting disconnected since last October. I am sure something will be interesting enough to get me to try it again, but I will be surprised if it ever gets used every day.
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There's more reality than than meets the eye.
I guess combing the two would make this better. But videos are always a tease.
The same people willing to spend over $1000 on a phone.
So with the minimum specifications being;
CPU (Processor): Intel Mobile Core i5 (eg 7200U) Dual Core with Hyperthreading equivalent.
GPU (Display Processor): Integrated Intel HD Graphics 620 (GT2) equivallent or greater Direct X12 API capable.
RAM (Memory): 8 Gigabytes or more, Dual Channel required for integrated graphics.
HDMI Port: HDMI 1.4 with 2880x1440 @ 60hz or preferred HDMI 2.0 or DisplayPort 1.3+ with 2880 x 1440 @ 90hz (Recommended).
HDD (Storage): 100GB or more SSD (Preferred).
USB Port(s): USB 3.0 Type A, or USB 3.1 Type C port with DisplayPort Alternate Mode.
Bluetooth (Wireless): Bluetooth 4.0 (Used for Accessories)
Which Macbook would match or exceed this specifications?
I am considering running a bootcamp Windows 10 with the Samsung Odyssey MR headset.
I've tried Oculus four years ago which was an interesting experience and then the HTC Vive about two years later which was a huge jump over the other due to improved graphics and interactivity with the controllers. The Vive was able to pick up my body movement with external sensors and a camera feed inside the helmet which I can see myself or a crowd of spectators behind me.
VR is getting better and sooner or later, they're going to proliferate.
Does that mean we should start having Apple Watch parties for the kids?
deleted. better answered below.
I've heard that usually the top of the line iMac or Mac Pro would do it, but since they're bringing out the iMac Pro, that might be the most expensive one even though a 'modular' Mac was supposed to be in the works for upgradability. This is one thing why Apple failed in bringing it up at the last keynote event.
I do know that some professional artists I follow in the illustration and concept art field are using the most recent iMac with high end specs or Windows PC ( most common ) hooked up to an HTC Vive so they can do 3D art or modelling and porting the images over to the desktop for more refining, if needed.
Such as this: https://www.tiltbrush.com/
As an artist myself, I would have a field day with this.
Wojtek Fus, a big name concept artist who works for large clients has been using VR to build out 3D models in real time and using them to refine his illustration work as an end result. THIS is what makes VR handy for this profession because now, instead of doing 3D modelling from a flat screen, you do it in real time by interacting with the object in true dimensional space. He posts his work process on instagram time to time.
Here's his work: http://www.wojtekfus.com/
Newsflash, the Vive already beats the Rift.
The 15" MacBook Pro exceeds these specs:
2.8 GHz i7
Intel 630 or Radeon 555 or Radeon 560.
16 GB RAM
256 GB (upgradable to 2TB) SSD.
4 Thunderbolt 3/USB 3.1.
All new iMacs exceed the specs as well (27" are better for it).
In addition, one could use an eGPU with any of them and well exceed the GPU specs.
Both are about on par now - but in terms of price, is the Vive worth the extra $$? Both support 360 / room sized tracking and both have touch controls. Vive *maybe* slighter more comfortable, especially for those who wear glasses.
Ultimately, Vive vs Rift. YMMV. They are both very close and down to personal preference, and price.
Possibly the most succinct summary of the Microsoft experience I've ever heard.
How big do you think VR is going to be?
There are over a billion computers out in the world right now... and two billion smartphones.
I'd be surprised if VR uptake ever reached 2% or 3%
It's not about how big VR is going to be but how it will change the way people interact with the OS. Right now, they're in this point of time where they're getting VR into the right direction and getting closer.
This is NOT the 1980s. This is NOT the 1990s. This is 2017. The technology has come this far and will improve and are designed to work with desktop class machines. And soon, they will become portable with self powered motherboards embedded in a smaller form factor inside a backpack PC ( they have that RIGHT. NOW. ) or powered straight from the phone/tablet which can eventually happen.
I do NOT think AR on a phone screen is the ultimate answer. This baby steps approach by Apple is wussy-ish and insulting to today's consumers who are already expecting portable VR goggles. Do you get it? We're living in an era where we're bombarded by science fiction films or books that portray technology that's feasible on paper. And when people see Blade Runner in 1982, they thought " Wow. How futuristic ". They've been expecting flying car ( they're out there now in experimental stages ). They've been expecting video phones ( we have them now, thanks to Blade Runner, Back to the Future 2, Minority Report, and so on ).
And so if Apple says " Here's your AR/VR on a phone ". The consumers, already exposed to future thought by far seeing film-makers and writers, are going to say " What the f---? We expect YOU to bring out the glasses to interact with the environment. Don't baby us! Grow a pair and make that happen already! ".
When I tried KnightFall AR on iPad Pro as an experiment, it was awkward. I had to hold it up over my low japanese table and hunch over a bit. The graphic are nice, sure, but it's just a 3D rendition of 'tower defense'. Nothing revolutionary. All you're doing is tapping buttons on screen while walking around a table surface. Then, it dawned on me on how long are people are going to hold the devices to play games like this, up in the air. What the hell was Apple thinking?
If they had brought out the glasses that detect hand movement, then we're talking next level tech. If they did that, my hands would be interacting with 3D space, NOT on the screen, manipulating the environment.
But AR on a phone is problematic due to ergonomic use. It may be useful in certain cases for consumer use, home improvement and such. But for other applications such as 3D design, work, file management, photo viewing, etc, you need to have interactive glasses for that.
The adage of "What Apple thinks best for us" is not working anymore. And you have people saying "OH! VR is too expensive for $1,000 or more ". Guess what? That's not a debate anymore. It's gotten cheaper to the point where it's accessible to people to buy and rig whatever they want. Even though iPhone X is $1,000, that price point won't drop for each new X iteration that comes out annually.
VR is getting cheaper below the $800 marker, even further down to $499 which I've seen the Vive at that price at a local GameStop.
And if you think VR is going to die out, you're mistaken. I know of some big name artists out there who are already using this technology to create 3D art in real time. One concept artist, Wojtek Fus, is using VR to build out 3D models of props and importing them into his painting apps to create digital art. He's worked for several big name companies so he knows what he's talking about. Even the military ( the navy ) is using VR to design ships from scratch.
I expect Apple to bring out the glasses with their usual BS excuse of " Oh, guess what! We now have a solution for you all with tired shoulders! We spent years making this! Here's the iGlasses! ". If they claim to be working on something for years on one thing, I wouldn't believe a word out of their mouths. I'll bet you that they will price the glasses near the $500-600 marker, maybe more. Sony's VR headset for the Playstation was $600 and I think it dropped in price recently. It's not designed to be on the level of the Vive or Oculus but as an accessible means of playing VR games.
Ultimately, MR ( Mixed Reality ) or VR will be around, regardless. It will evolve along with AR and merge.
Might want to add the “gear watch” flops to that list, if you consider the Apple Watch to be one, apparently Samsung’s ones are doing far worse.
Just so we're clear... I don't think AR is all it's cracked up to be either.
As for VR... yes it's cool... and yes it's evolving. I'm just not seeing it as the next great "consumer" tech though.
Even if VR goggles get smaller, lighter and cheaper... it's still an extra thing you have to carry. And thus you WON'T carry it... meaning you'll only be using it at home (if you own it at all)
You're right... artists, designers and the military are using VR right now. It's great for those applications.
But I'm just having a hard time seeing Joe and Jane Public using VR... at least in any meaningful numbers. It may only be a "niche" market at best.
I guess we'll see in a few years.