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Samsung Easily Tops Apple to Become World's Top Smartphone Manufacturer

scoobydoo99 said:
1. You just made my point. The facts point to a progression that leads to Samsung surpassing Apple. Why didn't the article just say that instead of saying that Samsung HAS surpassed Apple in sales?

2. I didn't make a personal attack. Nor did I engage in iOS vs. Android arguments.

3. I don't care if someone surpasses Apple. Heck, PC shipments dwarf Mac shipments, why would anyone care if Samsung phone shipments exceed iPhone shipments? :confused:



No one suggested there was a conspiracy. Only bad reporting by an ignorant writer. The comparison was not of trends over several quarters. The report was for only the 4th quarter and compared "analyst estimates" of Samsung SHIPMENTS with Apple-reported SALES. Then a conclusion was drawn ONLY by comparing those two disparate numbers. Just very poor, illogical, and sloppy. I would say the same thing if the numbers showed Apple ahead. I think the only people who claim this is a pro-Apple debate are the ones who wanted proof of Samsung outselling Apple. This isn't it.
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While you may not be part of the bunch, there are always plenty of people in threads like this pointing to "shipped" implying or explicitly stating that Samsung is simply stuffing the channels to make their numbers seem good (when in fact, they're not selling at all).

That said, you are of course correct in your analysis. Shipped does not equal sales, and there will, inevitably, be lags between items shipped and items sold (to end customer). I just felt the need to point out to the conspiracists that their logic doesnt hold in light on steadily increasing numbers quarter by quarter.
 
linuxcooldude said:
All you have to do is look at what Samsung has done in the past with its Galaxy Tabs

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/01/31/samsung-galaxy-tab-sales-actually-quite-small/

Which also goes to the speculation by some that Samsung shipped 1 million Galaxy Tabs but just sold 20,000, story thats been going around.

In some cases shipments can be returned if sales are particularly low. Not sure if its in Samsung's case.

I don't think products shipped, necessarily means that they are sold or have the potential of being sold by any set amount.
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Another time this debunked news?

Do you really believe that any company can increase shipments quarter after quarter without really selling them?
 
divinox said:
While you may not be part of the bunch, there are always plenty of people in threads like this pointing to "shipped" implying or explicitly stating that Samsung is simply stuffing the channels to make their numbers seem good (when in fact, they're not selling at all).

That said, you are of course correct in your analysis. Shipped does not equal sales, and there will, inevitably, be lags between items shipped and items sold (to end customer). I just felt the need to point out to the conspiracists that their logic doesnt hold in light on steadily increasing numbers quarter by quarter.
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Thank you for your well-reasoned, dispassionate response. I found it frustrating that people kept saying I couldn't handle Samsung beating Apple, when that just wasn't true! I just wanted to see more accurate reporting. haha.

Cheers.
 
There is always this excuse I hear about how Apple only makes one model phone every year vs dozens from other manufacturers and it isn't fair to make comparisons.

But hasn't anyone noticed Nokia is still #1 in GLOBAL market share? Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, and Sony Ericsson all make MULTIPLE phones too, but what is their excuse of not surpassing Nokia yet? Nokia is still #1 based on volume sales and still #2 in profit margins, and this is WITHOUT any true flagship smartphone to carry them since 2007 or ecosystem. Their N9/Lumia 800 is probably the best phone they have made since the N95.
 
Savor said:
There is always this excuse I hear about how Apple only makes one model phone every year vs dozens from other manufacturers and it isn't fair to make comparisons.

But hasn't anyone noticed Nokia is still #1 in GLOBAL market share? Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, and Sony Ericsson all make MULTIPLE phones too, but what is their excuse of not surpassing Nokia yet? Nokia is still #1 based on volume sales and still #2 in profit margins, and this is WITHOUT any true flagship smartphone to carry them since 2007 or ecosystem. Their N9/Lumia 800 is probably the best phone they have made since the N95.
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One of the inherent problems is that people want to shift the numbers to always work in their favor.

And not laying blame - but obviously Apple fans want to put one phone against one phone - in which case, Apple likely wins.

But is that what's important. Or is overall sales important.

I mentioned at least twice that in the big picture - a customer going to a store and buying one phone has a choice - the iPhone, or other phones. If they don't choose an Apple phone, that's one less customer for them. If they do, that's one more customer for them. So while Apple's numbers with a limited selection are damn impressive - what # do you look at more. WHO is to say which is better. Truth is - both are models that work in the marketplace.

Apple is scoring well with their offerings - and other phone manufacturers are providing alternative choices that run the gammut.

Again - both models seem to be working.
 
samcraig said:
One of the inherent problems is that people want to shift the numbers to always work in their favor.

And not laying blame - but obviously Apple fans want to put one phone against one phone - in which case, Apple likely wins.

But is that what's important. Or is overall sales important.

I mentioned at least twice that in the big picture - a customer going to a store and buying one phone has a choice - the iPhone, or other phones. If they don't choose an Apple phone, that's one less customer for them. If they do, that's one more customer for them. So while Apple's numbers with a limited selection are damn impressive - what # do you look at more. WHO is to say which is better. Truth is - both are models that work in the marketplace.

Apple is scoring well with their offerings - and other phone manufacturers are providing alternative choices that run the gammut.

Again - both models seem to be working.
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Again, this argument begs the question - What are you trying to prove? Wins what? Better for what?
 
samcraig said:
By you - you mean the generic you and not me as in SamCraig... At least I hope so... :)
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I meant both. The arguments in general seem to apply an arbitrary value to market share without defining why it's important. Even the rational arguments don't seem to address what they are trying to prove, so numbers are dismissed because they don't prove what they weren't meant to show.

You said that Apple fans want to put one phone against one phone which Apple likely wins, but you don't specify why that information is important. Intended or not, your statement seems to imply that "Apple fans" choose that metric so that they win. When actually, the metric does have significant value in terms of third-party support.

When you look at the valuable effects of market share, Apple seems to come out ahead regardless of their actual market share position whether you are a consumer or Apple itself.
 
I remember in video games, the Nintendo GameCube sold the worst in the 6th gen not including the Sega Dreamcast which was DEAD after a couple years. Sony PlayStation 2 and the Microsoft Xbox were superior machines, but both companies were losing money in the beginning because manufacturing cost so much and Nintendo knew how to sell their first-party games at a premium and not drop it to $20 after a year in some greatest hits line. They also fought piracy the best.

This is how Apple is doing it. Who cares about volume sales when you take in more than HALF of the profits? Apple will NEVER really beat Samsung or Nokia at volume sales though. Their spectrum is too broad. I am curious how quickly apps downloading will decline in the future and if having an "ecosystem" will be necessary. Again, Nokia has no real ecosystem and they are still #1 in volume sales as of today.

gsmarena_002.jpg


Piracy kills profits. It is happening in Android right now where you can easily get games for free that you are supposed to pay for. Remember when buying CD's were cool? Then illegal downloading killed that. And if you want movies or games, there is streaming and The Pirates Bay. Once people get ALL THE ESSENTIAL APPs they need, who knows if the software profits start drying up for Apple or anyone else? And Apple gets a 30% from app developers. I remember a decade ago when music was the #1 most illegally downloaded content. Now it is movies and porn.

publicbt_tracker1.png
 
indyzzzz said:
Whats the sales figures on the galaxy SII been like compared to the iPhone 4/4s ?
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Quality > Quantity as is oft repeated here. Samsung maybe have sold less GSII phones, but that just means they are of better build quality according to many here. ;)

By that line of thinking, the iPhone is the cheapest POS on the market today, but don't tell the Apple folks here who keep repeating that like a mantra.

FYI, they broke the 5 million mark in 85 days without a model available in the United States, which is quite impressive for a non-iPhone single model, especially considering how much more varied the Samsung line-up of models is compared to Apple's "one-size-fits-all" approach.
 
Savor said:
Piracy kills profits. It is happening in Android right now where you can easily get games for free that you are supposed to pay for. Remember when buying CD's were cool? Then illegal downloading killed that. And if you want movies or games, there is streaming and The Pirates Bay. Once people get ALL THE ESSENTIAL APPs they need, who knows if the software profits start drying up for Apple or anyone else? And Apple gets a 30% from app developers. I remember a decade ago when music was the #1 most illegally downloaded content. Now it is movies and porn.

Image
Click to expand...

The media companies still haven't learnt how to compete with pirates.
 
Savor said:
I remember in video games, the Nintendo GameCube sold the worst in the 6th gen not including the Sega Dreamcast which was DEAD after a couple years. Sony PlayStation 2 and the Microsoft Xbox were superior machines, but both companies were losing money in the beginning because manufacturing cost so much and Nintendo knew how to sell their first-party games at a premium and not drop it to $20 after a year in some greatest hits line. They also fought piracy the best.

This is how Apple is doing it. Who cares about volume sales when you take in more than HALF of the profits? Apple will NEVER really beat Samsung or Nokia at volume sales though. Their spectrum is too broad. I am curious how quickly apps downloading will decline in the future and if having an "ecosystem" will be necessary. Again, Nokia has no real ecosystem and they are still #1 in volume sales as of today.

Image

Piracy kills profits. It is happening in Android right now where you can easily get games for free that you are supposed to pay for. Remember when buying CD's were cool? Then illegal downloading killed that. And if you want movies or games, there is streaming and The Pirates Bay. Once people get ALL THE ESSENTIAL APPs they need, who knows if the software profits start drying up for Apple or anyone else? And Apple gets a 30% from app developers. I remember a decade ago when music was the #1 most illegally downloaded content. Now it is movies and porn.

Image
Click to expand...

I think you're touching on a crucial bit here, how does one make "rich ecosystem" transform into "sustainable competitive advantage". Granted, Apple has dominance in the smartphone field, just like MSFT has in general (personal) computing. Thing is though, like you stated, what happens when the iOS market place is saturated? Not only will there be severe margin pressure (due to increased competition), but also an increased struggle for each new (potential) customer.

What will developers do? Well, i doubt they'll sit idly by and just say "it was fun while it lasted". Ironically, one of the main strengths of the iOS ecosystem - its size - will inevitably work towards re-enforcing others (e.g. the grass may not be as green, but there is a hell of a lot fewer cows grassing on it). Also, one has to acknowledge the current trend towards platform-independency, fueled both by technology itself (e.g. HTML5) and (for ex.) Apples business model (circumventing Apples 30% cut). We've seen it happen already in print media (news, books etc.). That others will not follow, given the overall "leap to the cloud" is a naive thought.

What then? Well, personally i think we're headed for exciting times. In a world where service is key, and technology pushes apps toward becoming an "industry asset" the obvious route to take to get ahead is partnering - not only in the mobile space, but rather in the every day space that is life. "Only" by creating partnership networks (e.g. co-specialization*) will competitors be able to offer substantially superior value propositions to the end customer, in a non-replicable fashion --- and, the more complex the network, the harder it will be to replicate.

Episode 1 of the Mobile wars came down to hardware (e.g. Nokia, Ericsson, Motorola).
Episode 2 was the era of software (e.g. Apple, Google, MSFT).
Episode 3 will be the age of partnerships. (e.g. ? ? ?)

....and people say the trilogies suck :- )


* nice article by Teece touching on these things.

http://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j...uOmqAQ&usg=AFQjCNEWf1J3-OmsdHlpNqhGsbdmMumdbg
 
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divinox said:
Episode 1 of the Mobile wars came down to hardware (e.g. Nokia, Ericsson, Motorola).
Episode 2 was the era of software (e.g. Apple, Google, MSFT).
Episode 3 will be the age of partnerships. (e.g. ? ? ?)
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Really? It seems that Apple pretty much dominated the hardware wars with the introduction of the iPhone. Before then, Motorola was bringing us products like the RAZR. While all manufacturers have been bringing decent hardware lately, it was really Apple that forced them to play in the quality arena, where before they produced low quality, glitchy, disposable junk. Even now, Apple sets the standard with premium materials (aluminum and glass vs. plastic) and design that's pretty much unmatched. Even if you personally like other hardware better, I don't think you can hand "Episode 1" in your trilogy to anyone other than Apple.
 
BaldiMac said:
Better third party accessory support? Just because it's a cherry picked statistic that Apple "wins", doesn't mean it's meaningless.
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There are plenty of accessories for all the remotely popular phones. Is that the only reason to keep banging the "single phone model" drum?

----------
scoobydoo99 said:
Really? It seems that Apple pretty much dominated the hardware wars with the introduction of the iPhone. Before then, Motorola was bringing us products like the RAZR. While all manufacturers have been bringing decent hardware lately, it was really Apple that forced them to play in the quality arena, where before they produced low quality, glitchy, disposable junk. Even now, Apple sets the standard with premium materials (aluminum and glass vs. plastic) and design that's pretty much unmatched. Even if you personally like other hardware better, I don't think you can hand "Episode 1" in your trilogy to anyone other than Apple.
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You mean like the plastic 3Gs they still sell? I also had plenty of non-glitchy phones before the iPhone. It was a hell of a lot nicer, but that's technology for you. Wait a bit and it gets better.
 
scoobydoo99 said:
Really? It seems that Apple pretty much dominated the hardware wars with the introduction of the iPhone. Before then, Motorola was bringing us products like the RAZR. While all manufacturers have been bringing decent hardware lately, it was really Apple that forced them to play in the quality arena, where before they produced low quality, glitchy, disposable junk. Even now, Apple sets the standard with premium materials (aluminum and glass vs. plastic) and design that's pretty much unmatched. Even if you personally like other hardware better, I don't think you can hand "Episode 1" in your trilogy to anyone other than Apple.
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I wasnt saying that hardware didnt matter. However, with the iPhone the game clearly changed toward software (something Jobs himself would gladly admit, had he been alive). Before that, key to making a phone was in the hardware (and not so much the software that ran on it). Granted, in ways the iPhone was a leap forward in terms of hardware, but then only as a vehicle for software. In fact, in many respects it was sub-par hardware wise when first launch - and some would argue, it still is (but thats besides the point).

Second, you're sadly mistaken (or just American, what do i know) if you think that everything before the iphone was "low quality, glitchy, disposable junk". But hey, everyone picks his own delusions.

Once more:

In the beginning, key to making the best phone was in the hardware (at first, things that made your phone a phone, later with some convergence - camera, storage, gps etc.). Then, as major streams (e.g. pda, computing, mobile) collided or converged (take your pick), the game changed into one of software (explaining the success of Apple (etc.) on one hand, and the struggle of others - with trajectories in the old paradigm - on the other). However, nothing is set in stone, and the now twisted trajectories are ever moving. Hence, episode 3 - the era of co-specialization (e.g. partnering).
 
chagla said:
-widgets
-full website experience
-memory expansion
-flexible file management

among other things..
Click to expand...

-yeah the lack of widgets on iOS has really put a dent on Apple sales :rolleyes:
-yes, because iOS browsing is crippled without flash
-yes, because you swap out your 5 SD cards daily :rolleyes:
-huh?
 
BaldiMac said:
Better third party accessory support? Just because it's a cherry picked statistic that Apple "wins", doesn't mean it's meaningless.
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Altho this is true, it is starting to matter less and less.

With Bluetooth, DLNA or any other wireless streaming standard... the need for ipod/iphone plugin accessories are going to matter less and less.

I am not talking about cases, because every phone has plenty of case options.
 
dgree03 said:
Altho this is true, it is starting to matter less and less.

With Bluetooth, DLNA or any other wireless streaming standard... the need for ipod/iphone plugin accessories are going to matter less and less.
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You are skipping over the point. It was one example.

I am not talking about cases, because every phone has plenty of case options.
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Again with "plenty"? A single phone with more market share will generally have more case options. A phone that very few people buy will not have "plenty" of case options even if it runs the #1 smartphone OS.



It's a simple question. I provided an example of an advantage that Apple has by producing the top smartphone in response to claims that the statistic was meaningless. What advantage do Google/Android manufacturers have as a result of having the most smartphone OS market share?
 
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