Samsung Galaxy 10.1 copies the iPad...and blows it away!

[Night Spring]

Except of course when comparing the development cycles of Android tablets verses iPads, which this thread is mainly about. Thanks for chipping in, BTW.

Ummmm, I thought this thread was about comparing Android vs iPad, and their development cycles is one part of that discussion.

And your argument was that Apple has a longer development cycle than the Android, which allows Android to innovate faster than Apple, correct? However, I'm not sure what their being in beta or not adds to the argument, especially since you say that both products are in beta, and we are all beta testers. If you were saying one was in beta, while the other is not, then I can perhaps see the point, but since you say both are in beta...

If I'm missing something and this serves a purpose other than making people feel stupid for being gullible consumers paying to beta test products, please do point it out.

 

[fizzwinkus]

what do you mean? what's google forcing them to do? are you referring to google trying to make a pact with all the manufacturers to make sure updates become more timely if they have custom UI's?

Read the filings on the skyhook lawsuit against google. It's a real eye opener for googleheads.

 

[fizzwinkus]

Ummmm, I thought this thread was about comparing Android vs iPad, and their development cycles is one part of that discussion.

And your argument was that Apple has a longer development cycle than the Android, which allows Android to innovate faster than Apple, correct? However, I'm not sure what their being in beta or not adds to the argument, especially since you say that both products are in beta, and we are all beta testers. If you were saying one was in beta, while the other is not, then I can perhaps see the point, but since you say both are in beta...

If I'm missing something and this serves a purpose other than making people feel stupid for being gullible consumers paying to beta test products, please do point it out.

It doesn't add anything. And neither do release schedules. Or maybe he thinks apple engineers only work three days a week while google engineers work six?

 

[RWinOR]

Ummmm, I thought this thread was about comparing Android vs iPad, and their development cycles is one part of that discussion.

And your argument was that Apple has a longer development cycle than the Android, which allows Android to innovate faster than Apple, correct? However, I'm not sure what their being in beta or not adds to the argument, especially since you say that both products are in beta, and we are all beta testers. If you were saying one was in beta, while the other is not, then I can perhaps see the point, but since you say both are in beta...

If I'm missing something and this serves a purpose other than making people feel stupid for being gullible consumers paying to beta test products, please do point it out.

Of course he is saying Androids development cycle is shorter then Apples. We all know it is much faster to copy someones great idea, than to create your own. The Android market is full of masters of reverse Engineering.

As to the Perpetual beta question, my Android device is yet to receive an update, it has known bugs. They probably do not know how to fix it, because there is nothing to copy yet.

The thing the Android pushing users love most about their Android devices is they are Applish, without being Apple. They want the Great touch interface and user experience that Apple promises and delivers, but do not want true Apple hardware.

Had Apple not developed the first Iphone, there would be no such device yet, had Apple not developed the first IPad there would be no such tool. Android is a follower, not a leader.

Apple created the market for Smart Touch screens on mobile devices. Android is trying to copy this and not really doing well.

Apple is a focused market, with positive momentum. Android is a fractured market full of me too companies, not making a profit and delivering poor hardware and OS implementations.

I for one would rather stick with the real product and the leader, than to buy a cheap knockoff.

 

[spinedoc77]

Of course he is saying Androids development cycle is shorter then Apples. We all know it is much faster to copy someones great idea, than to create your own. The Android market is full of masters of reverse Engineering.

As to the Perpetual beta question, my Android device is yet to receive an update, it has known bugs. They probably do not know how to fix it, because there is nothing to copy yet.

The thing the Android pushing users love most about their Android devices is they are Applish, without being Apple. They want the Great touch interface and user experience that Apple promises and delivers, but do not want true Apple hardware.

Had Apple not developed the first Iphone, there would be no such device yet, had Apple not developed the first IPad there would be no such tool. Android is a follower, not a leader.

Apple created the market for Smart Touch screens on mobile devices. Android is trying to copy this and not really doing well.

Apple is a focused market, with positive momentum. Android is a fractured market full of me too companies, not making a profit and delivering poor hardware and OS implementations.

I for one would rather stick with the real product and the leader, than to buy a cheap knockoff.

Wow, your fanboy skill has gone up <435>

 

[kalex]

Of course he is saying Androids development cycle is shorter then Apples. We all know it is much faster to copy someones great idea, than to create your own. The Android market is full of masters of reverse Engineering.

As to the Perpetual beta question, my Android device is yet to receive an update, it has known bugs. They probably do not know how to fix it, because there is nothing to copy yet.

The thing the Android pushing users love most about their Android devices is they are Applish, without being Apple. They want the Great touch interface and user experience that Apple promises and delivers, but do not want true Apple hardware.

Had Apple not developed the first Iphone, there would be no such device yet, had Apple not developed the first IPad there would be no such tool. Android is a follower, not a leader.

Apple created the market for Smart Touch screens on mobile devices. Android is trying to copy this and not really doing well.

Apple is a focused market, with positive momentum. Android is a fractured market full of me too companies, not making a profit and delivering poor hardware and OS implementations.

I for one would rather stick with the real product and the leader, than to buy a cheap knockoff.

I'll have whatever you are drinking.

 

[RWinOR]

Wow, your fanboy skill has gone up <435>

Thank you, I will take this as a compliment.

 

[NebulaClash]

Thank you, I will take this as a compliment.

Kinda sad to see how the Android followers ignored your post other than to create ad hominem attacks on your person (implying you are drunk or blinded by fan-boyism).

Such behavior occurs on the Apple side as well. But it's telling that when people choose to ignore the argument and pretend the problem is the poster, that this really indicates an unwilligness or inability to deal with the substance of the argument.

Your response is a good one. When you are dealt a childish insult, ignore it like an adult.

 

[spinedoc77]

Kinda sad to see how the Android followers ignored your post other than to create ad hominem attacks on your person (implying you are drunk or blinded by fan-boyism).

Such behavior occurs on the Apple side as well. But it's telling that when people choose to ignore the argument and pretend the problem is the poster, that this really indicates an unwilligness or inability to deal with the substance of the argument.

Your response is a good one. When you are dealt a childish insult, ignore it like an adult.

I'm not an Android follower, nor an Apple follower. Labeling yourself as either one is the most utterly idiotic thing in my opinion. Rather I purchase hardware and software to solve my needs regardless of who makes it, if a particular piece of hardware of software solves my needs then I will purchase it. So I hope you're not referring to me as an "Android follower" because I'm far from that, I'm more of a "regular consumer who buys what he needs follower". As for the argument, there wasn't really much of one in there except that Android has copied everything Apple and Android users secretly want to be Apple users, there wasn't much of a logical response that could be put out for that. I apologize for my joke if it offended anyone, it's just that the post seemed so angry and righteous I just wanted to lighten things up a bit. It's tough on forums as 99% of what people vehemently argue is just pure opinion, nothing wrong with that but there really is no defensible position, intelligent discussion almost always degrades to mindless defense of an opinion, that's the real tragedy.

 

[NebulaClash]

I'm not an Android follower, nor an Apple follower. Labeling yourself as either one is the most utterly idiotic thing in my opinion. Rather I purchase hardware and software to solve my needs regardless of who makes it, if a particular piece of hardware of software solves my needs then I will purchase it. So I hope you're not referring to me as an "Android follower" because I'm far from that, I'm more of a "regular consumer who buys what he needs follower". As for the argument, there wasn't really much of one in there except that Android has copied everything Apple and Android users secretly want to be Apple users, there wasn't much of a logical response that could be put out for that. I apologize for my joke if it offended anyone, it's just that the post seemed so angry and righteous I just wanted to lighten things up a bit. It's tough on forums as 99% of what people vehemently argue is just pure opinion, nothing wrong with that but there really is no defensible position, intelligent discussion almost always degrades to mindless defense of an opinion, that's the real tragedy.

OK, thanks for clarifying your position, and it's one I respect. I get so tired of coming to MacRumors and being told my choice of tech is stupid, so I tend to see jokes like yours as being one more slam. But humor is fine here.

 

[Night Spring]

it's just that the post seemed so angry...

Woah, were we reading the same post? I got no sense of anger at all from that post, just a plain statement of view from someone who is satisfied with Apple/iOS and finds Android lacking.

 

[RWinOR]

I'm not an Android follower, nor an Apple follower. Labeling yourself as either one is the most utterly idiotic thing in my opinion. Rather I purchase hardware and software to solve my needs regardless of who makes it, if a particular piece of hardware of software solves my needs then I will purchase it. So I hope you're not referring to me as an "Android follower" because I'm far from that, I'm more of a "regular consumer who buys what he needs follower". As for the argument, there wasn't really much of one in there except that Android has copied everything Apple and Android users secretly want to be Apple users, there wasn't much of a logical response that could be put out for that. I apologize for my joke if it offended anyone, it's just that the post seemed so angry and righteous I just wanted to lighten things up a bit. It's tough on forums as 99% of what people vehemently argue is just pure opinion, nothing wrong with that but there really is no defensible position, intelligent discussion almost always degrades to mindless defense of an opinion, that's the real tragedy.

Your joke did not offend me. However stating that I was angry is a little offensive.

Let me see I understand the Android users in this Thread.
Posters buy Apple products because they work best for him/her.
Poster joins Apple Forum to talk with like-minded individuals about the product and find solutions or ideas for other uses of devices.
Poster posts the positive accolades of the devices they have chosen for themselves because they work better.
Android users come over to Apple forum to talk about how much they like there hardware.
Android users post how anyone who speaks highly of their hardware in an Apple forum is drinking cool aid, or a fan boy, and has no valid opinion.
Android users assume since they are using something other than Apple in and Apple forum that everyone is against them and resorts to name calling, and invalidates all positive apple responses.

Does this sum it up?

I have used both, when I speak poorly of Android it is from personal experience. When I speak highly of Apple it is again from personal experience. The fact this is an Apple Forum not an Android forum, and I like my hardware choice should in no way invalidate my opinion anymore then you liking Android invalidates your opinion. What invalidates your opinion is calling all who like the device they have chosen over yours, a fanboy or cool aid drinking idiot.

I have said many times Android has promise, but the Android makers needs to join together, and realize it is not a single sale throw away market with everyone out to get the first sale. If it is going to last, it is the total user experience of the entire life of the product, which should be more than 6 months.

 

[NebulaClash]

You highlight one of the problems with Android, which is that the end user experience of Android varies with the device maker. Which version of the OS you get varies, the features they bolt onto the UI vary, the speed of your updates varies. It's the Windows model all over again, for good and for bad.

The good, from the Android fan's perspective, is the Windows model RULZ! It took over the computer market, and thus Android will take over both the phone and tablet markets! Woo hoo!

This ignores the obvious difference between the PC market of the 90s and the phone/tablet markets of today. Android will never have a Windows market share of either market. But it must be said that if hundreds of phone/tablet manufacturers slap Android onto their devices for free, then give a bunch of them away (or sell them cheap), you do indeed get a big market share. That cannot be denied. It won't be the Windows 90%+ share, but it will be substantial.

The bad aspect of the Windows model is that it's a free-for-all, as I noted above. Anything gets called Android even when it doesn't even work with the Android app store. The user experience is sub-standard in some cases with lazy manufacturers. Good luck figuring out who to run to if you have an Android bug. Good luck getting that OS update quickly. And good luck trying to peddle the freedom concept as Google starts to clamp down on this fragmentation issue and acts more like Apple.

Android is fantastic for geeks. It is and should be their OS of choice. But geeks have never been the majority of the population, and they are going to be saddened once again (as with Linux) that not everyone sees things as they do, or cares about freedom with their same fervor. Most people want a tool that works, and who cares what's under the hood. Most people are not clamoring for Android the way geeks think they are.

 

[spinedoc77]

Of course he is saying Androids development cycle is shorter then Apples. We all know it is much faster to copy someones great idea, than to create your own. The Android market is full of masters of reverse Engineering.

As to the Perpetual beta question, my Android device is yet to receive an update, it has known bugs. They probably do not know how to fix it, because there is nothing to copy yet.

The thing the Android pushing users love most about their Android devices is they are Applish, without being Apple. They want the Great touch interface and user experience that Apple promises and delivers, but do not want true Apple hardware.

Had Apple not developed the first Iphone, there would be no such device yet, had Apple not developed the first IPad there would be no such tool. Android is a follower, not a leader.

Apple created the market for Smart Touch screens on mobile devices. Android is trying to copy this and not really doing well.

Apple is a focused market, with positive momentum. Android is a fractured market full of me too companies, not making a profit and delivering poor hardware and OS implementations.

I for one would rather stick with the real product and the leader, than to buy a cheap knockoff.

Your joke did not offend me. However stating that I was angry is a little offensive.

Let me see I understand the Android users in this Thread.
Posters buy Apple products because they work best for him/her.
Poster joins Apple Forum to talk with like-minded individuals about the product and find solutions or ideas for other uses of devices.
Poster posts the positive accolades of the devices they have chosen for themselves because they work better.
Android users come over to Apple forum to talk about how much they like there hardware.
Android users post how anyone who speaks highly of their hardware in an Apple forum is drinking cool aid, or a fan boy, and has no valid opinion.
Android users assume since they are using something other than Apple in and Apple forum that everyone is against them and resorts to name calling, and invalidates all positive apple responses.

Does this sum it up?

I have used both, when I speak poorly of Android it is from personal experience. When I speak highly of Apple it is again from personal experience. The fact this is an Apple Forum not an Android forum, and I like my hardware choice should in no way invalidate my opinion anymore then you liking Android invalidates your opinion. What invalidates your opinion is calling all who like the device they have chosen over yours, a fanboy or cool aid drinking idiot.

I have said many times Android has promise, but the Android makers needs to join together, and realize it is not a single sale throw away market with everyone out to get the first sale. If it is going to last, it is the total user experience of the entire life of the product, which should be more than 6 months.

That's not how I read your first post, your 2nd post is much more reasonable. You seem to think that Apple invented smartphones and tablets which is clearly not true. What Apple did was package the hardware and software to appeal to the masses and market them effectively, but they did not invent either of them by a long shot. You just make it sound like Android copies everything from Apple alone to such a great degree that even their development cycle is affected by such copying, come on.... You haven't gotten an OS update because Android has nothing to copy from Apple? Come on...

As for Android users wanting the Apple experience, that's not true at least in my personal opinion and use. Personally I actually want more of a windows experience, keep in mind I do not speak for every user, just myself. I was a big fan of Windows Mobile, but I like to root around in a system that allows me incredible flexibility, I understand the simpleness of iOS is what appeals to many users. I use both iOS and Android on a daily basis and I see many differences, the things that are similar are obvious things that any tablet/smartphone would use and were used BEFORE the iphone or ipad were released. The fact that Apple copied these elements in no way takes away from the greatness that is inherent in their smartphones and tablets. I'd say Android users want a great touch interface and user interface, but not necessarily Apple's, and there are enough differences where you really don't get iOS if you are using Android. It's kind of an inane argument to begin with though.

As for your assessment of "android users", which I assume means someone who is committed to Android alone and won't touch Apple (which is really not anyone) it's pretty far out there, at least speaking from my own personal opinion. Android users don't come here from the far reaches of Androidville, the vast majority of posters on here ARE Apple hardware owners who would like to discuss the differences in hardware and software and eventually come to own which one is best for them. Sure just like there are hardcore Apple fanboys, there are also some bad Android Apples who only post to make trouble, but really the vast majority, as is true in most extremes in life, really fall somewhere in the middle and are just exploring their options and discussing why they made their choices. Your analysis goes equally both ways, you can't cry wolf that "android users" (once again whatever that means) are insulting you when these things happen both ways on a daily (probably hourly) basis.

Once again I do apologize for calling you a fanboy, but for the reasons stated in my first couple of paragraphs your post just seemed more like a vehemently stated personal opinion than anything else. There were some glimmers of opinion that I also agree with though. As it stands I own and love Apple products, but in SOME ways I wish they took a cue from Android and allowed me to do certain things I cannot do in iOS, but my hardware dollars have chosen Apple for the time being, this might not be the case when the 10.1 comes out but I haven't decided that yet.

 

[spinedoc77]

You highlight one of the problems with Android, which is that the end user experience of Android varies with the device maker. Which version of the OS you get varies, the features they bolt onto the UI vary, the speed of your updates varies. It's the Windows model all over again, for good and for bad.

The good, from the Android fan's perspective, is the Windows model RULZ! It took over the computer market, and thus Android will take over both the phone and tablet markets! Woo hoo!

This ignores the obvious difference between the PC market of the 90s and the phone/tablet markets of today. Android will never have a Windows market share of either market. But it must be said that if hundreds of phone/tablet manufacturers slap Android onto their devices for free, then give a bunch of them away (or sell them cheap), you do indeed get a big market share. That cannot be denied. It won't be the Windows 90%+ share, but it will be substantial.

The bad aspect of the Windows model is that it's a free-for-all, as I noted above. Anything gets called Android even when it doesn't even work with the Android app store. The user experience is sub-standard in some cases with lazy manufacturers. Good luck figuring out who to run to if you have an Android bug. Good luck getting that OS update quickly. And good luck trying to peddle the freedom concept as Google starts to clamp down on this fragmentation issue and acts more like Apple.

Android is fantastic for geeks. It is and should be their OS of choice. But geeks have never been the majority of the population, and they are going to be saddened once again (as with Linux) that not everyone sees things as they do, or cares about freedom with their same fervor. Most people want a tool that works, and who cares what's under the hood. Most people are not clamoring for Android the way geeks think they are.

I certainly agree with much of this, and have stated so before on these forums. The fragmentation that the manufacturers and carriers are introducing is completely counter productive to advancing the Android system. Google should have either 1) produced it's own hardware alone like Apple did so they would have complete control over the market, or 2) they should have released Android as an OS that was not subject to a manufacturer/carriers modifications similar to how Microsoft sells Windows licenses. Personally I'd rather see option 2 because it allows us to see a variety of hardware similar to PC's and it allows Google to regularly update their OS without the manufacturers/carriers getting in the way.

I don't see why Google couldn't have done it this way. Certainly when Apple first introduced the iphone they didn't have anywhere near the clout they had after it became a best seller, so how were they able to introduce hardware and OS that the carriers had absolutely no say in terms of UI and the OS itself. It's an interesting question and of course rhetorical at this point as the past has already turned into the present. Google really needs to take hold of the Android OS and take control back from the manufacturers and carriers, but it seems they are fragmenting themselves as well in introducing the Chrome OS which just recently has all the signs of being not only a PC OS, but a tablet OS as well.

Yeah Google has a long ways to go and some thinking to do. Being a loss leader didn't work for Windows Mobile but it has seemed to work for Android as an OS, which is outselling iOS. Yes I know its comparing Apple to a bunch of companies, but no one hesitates to compare OSx to Windows, which is a very similar situation. We all know the tablet market is quite different, it's not so much a "needed" device and is not necessarily carrier subsidized so Google really needs to reign in their fragmentation on the tablet side and provide a more coherent solution. But if you follow them they are trying to unify things in the next OS update, they have announced a program to unify the manufacturers and carriers updating the OS, they are at least trying.

 

[radiohead14]

Read the filings on the skyhook lawsuit against google. It's a real eye opener for googleheads.

read up.. this is what i think: i do believe that google has a right to have a set standard for what is compatible with the android platform.. or else there will be a lot of issues and incompatibilities, since their own IPs are involved. google is not holding out android as a whole.. just their IPs (Gapps). yes, there is fragmentation in android, but it would be a lot worse if these standards didn't exist. i think the more interesting question is why do carriers require Gapps on android phones? is there some other contract involved or is it just carrier preference? we shall see what the judge decides.

That's not how I read your first post, your 2nd post is much more reasonable. You seem to think that Apple invented smartphones and tablets which is clearly not true. What Apple did was package the hardware and software to appeal to the masses and market them effectively, but they did not invent either of them by a long shot. You just make it sound like Android copies everything from Apple alone to such a great degree that even their development cycle is affected by such copying, come on.... You haven't gotten an OS update because Android has nothing to copy from Apple? Come on...

As for Android users wanting the Apple experience, that's not true at least in my personal opinion and use. Personally I actually want more of a windows experience, keep in mind I do not speak for every user, just myself. I was a big fan of Windows Mobile, but I like to root around in a system that allows me incredible flexibility, I understand the simpleness of iOS is what appeals to many users. I use both iOS and Android on a daily basis and I see many differences, the things that are similar are obvious things that any tablet/smartphone would use and were used BEFORE the iphone or ipad were released. The fact that Apple copied these elements in no way takes away from the greatness that is inherent in their smartphones and tablets. I'd say Android users want a great touch interface and user interface, but not necessarily Apple's, and there are enough differences where you really don't get iOS if you are using Android. It's kind of an inane argument to begin with though.

As for your assessment of "android users", which I assume means someone who is committed to Android alone and won't touch Apple (which is really not anyone) it's pretty far out there, at least speaking from my own personal opinion. Android users don't come here from the far reaches of Androidville, the vast majority of posters on here ARE Apple hardware owners who would like to discuss the differences in hardware and software and eventually come to own which one is best for them. Sure just like there are hardcore Apple fanboys, there are also some bad Android Apples who only post to make trouble, but really the vast majority, as is true in most extremes in life, really fall somewhere in the middle and are just exploring their options and discussing why they made their choices. Your analysis goes equally both ways, you can't cry wolf that "android users" (once again whatever that means) are insulting you when these things happen both ways on a daily (probably hourly) basis.

Once again I do apologize for calling you a fanboy, but for the reasons stated in my first couple of paragraphs your post just seemed more like a vehemently stated personal opinion than anything else. There were some glimmers of opinion that I also agree with though. As it stands I own and love Apple products, but in SOME ways I wish they took a cue from Android and allowed me to do certain things I cannot do in iOS, but my hardware dollars have chosen Apple for the time being, this might not be the case when the 10.1 comes out but I haven't decided that yet.

you sir have been the most sensible poster i've seen here in a while. i'm one of those users who is open to using whatever works best for me. for home computer OS.. OSX is great and has made PC use, not easier or simpler than Windows 7, but different and more my liking, and it feels cleaner. Apple's hardware is usually higher quality as well, and i love their customer service. back when i bought the first version of the unibody MBP.. there were issues with the display and keyboard.. the apple store near me.. no questions asked, allowed me to exchange until i got a good one (went through 3 of them). Windows 7 is a big step up from their previous versions too, and is what i use at work. when it comes to phones and tablets.. this is where i prefer android as i did find iOS limiting for my uses. i was looking for a closer to desktop experience, and android provides that for me. i'm far from a geek, but i do find using android an easy experience. i just wanted that extra user manageability that i felt was lacking on iOS.

 

[vrDrew]

I don't see why Google couldn't have done it this way..

Google couldn't "do it that way" because thats not the way Google operates.

Google's entire business model is based on the concept that "free" IS the business model. And if Google were to take proper "ownership" of the Android operating system, then they actually be forced to take responsibility for it. They'd also have to start charging for it.

Right now, all Google does is place the source code on an FTP server. And it lets manufacturers do pretty much what they want with it. Which is why you get abominations like the first-gen Samsung Galaxy Tab, running an OS that was never meant for tablet use. And distributing the OS in that way gets Google off the hook for things like copyright and DRM.

This is probably an oversimplification, but the world of computer-users is divided into those who don't mind paying for things. And those who think everything digital ought to be free for the taking. IN GENERAL Android users fall into the latter category (witness how few Android Apps are paid, even now.) Apple users GENERALLY don't mind paying. Which is why the Apple Music store, and now App Store, have done billions in business.

Which is why a) there will probably NEVER be a very healthy market for Android tablet apps and b) no matter what the hardware or software specs of a device like the Galaxy 10.1 - its NEVER going to "blow away" the iPad.

 

[NebulaClash]

I think Apple controlled everything from the start because they could see what would happen if they had used the Google approach. Google, as is typical for them, just threw something out on the market and beta tested their way into the future.

So Apple got the correct model, and now Google having realized its mistake is starting to copy Apple's model. It's what Google should have done from the beginning.

It's a difference of philosophy. Remember, the iPhone started as a tablet in-house, but got released as a phone first. Apple has planned the iPad lifecyle for years, and they think in terms of what the market will need years from now. Google's philosophy is to try a dozen different ideas and see which one sticks. Android, after all, didn't look like iOS until after iOS took the market by storm. So Google turned on a dime and went that direction instead. That's actually a strength of theirs.

But a weakness of Google is a lack of long-term vision. Any book about Apple talks about their long-term approach to things. Any book about Google talks about their haphazard, let-the-engineers-try-it approach. The latter appeals to geeks who love the meritocracy of ideas and think the best idea will win in the end. Most of the rest of the world likes a polished product that moves steadily forward along a long-term plan.

 

[radiohead14]

So Apple got the correct model, and now Google having realized its mistake is starting to copy Apple's model. It's what Google should have done from the beginning.

i do agree on this, and now we are seeing that google is trying to make an agreement with all the manufacturers when it comes to custom UIs. let the manufacturers continue with their own versions of android, but make sure to roll out the updates in a timely manner. carriers also need to coordinate with manufacturers also.. i know verizon retests upgrades after the manufacturers do before rolling out the OTA's, which delay the updates even more. they need to find a way to simultaneously test.

 

[fizzwinkus]

read up.. this is what i think: i do believe that google has a right to have a set standard for what is compatible with the android platform.. or else there will be a lot of issues and incompatibilities, since their own IPs are involved. google is not holding out android as a whole.. just their IPs (Gapps). yes, there is fragmentation in android, but it would be a lot worse if these standards didn't exist. i think the more interesting question is why do carriers require Gapps on android phones? is there some other contract involved or is it just carrier preference? we shall see what the judge decides.

google directly contributed to an android build that was already working fine, and had already passed their standards, breaking down because they saw skyhook integration as competition. google is directly responsible for for that snafu, which never would have happened if android was actually open, as opposed to subject to google's arbitrarily and malicious changing of "standards"

a standard isn't a standard if changes are allowed solely for the purpose of blocking competition.

 

[RWinOR]

You seem to think that Apple invented smartphones and tablets which is clearly not true. What Apple did was package the hardware and software to appeal to the masses and market them effectively, but they did not invent either of them by a long shot. .

Here is what I actually said,

Had Apple not developed the first Iphone, there would be no such device yet, had Apple not developed the first IPad there would be no such tool. Android is a follower, not a leader.

Apple created the market for Smart Touch screens on mobile devices. Android is trying to copy this and not really doing well.

It sounds like you actully agree with me, Apple created the market, I never said they invented it. Smart phones, and touch screens have been around for years. Apple just presented in a different manner that took off, and made others want to follow.

I am happy you enjoy your Android so much. I am sure it works well for you.

 

[radiohead14]

google directly contributed to an android build that was already working fine, and had already passed their standards, breaking down because they saw skyhook integration as competition. google is directly responsible for for that snafu, which never would have happened if android was actually open, as opposed to subject to google's arbitrarily and malicious changing of "standards"

a standard isn't a standard if changes are allowed solely for the purpose of blocking competition.

not sure what your definition of open is, but the android source is out there. again.. they didn't hold out the OS, just their IPs. please feel free to explain otherwise why you think it isn't in this case. manufacturers can technically still bring out a phone without these apps, but it seems like carriers are preventing them to do so. i'd like to find out more about this separate agreement that carriers have with manufacturers. and you make it sound like google is the only company to have revisions to their terms. i'm not a dev, so i don't know the extent as to how deeply integrated gapps are with google services, so they might just be looking out for when they do update these apps. updates would be quicker if their apps are already in tune with their own services as opposed to third party. but then again.. like i said, we're not sure at the moment if google is indeed quietly trying to muscle out competition. that's for the judge to decide.

 

[spinedoc77]

Here is what I actually said,


It sounds like you actully agree with me, Apple created the market, I never said they invented it. Smart phones, and touch screens have been around for years. Apple just presented in a different manner that took off, and made others want to follow.

I am happy you enjoy your Android so much. I am sure it works well for you.

Just as I disagree that Apple invented the market I also disagree that "Apple created the market" (and I do see your distinction) as smartphones were around LONG before the iphone and tablets were around LONG before the ipad, not just the hardware but the market was there before. It's quite obvious that Apple tooks some cues from these pre-existing devices, and at the same time created their own unique paradigms, a good company will always adopt what works and attempt to throw out what doesn't work.

As for my enjoyment of Android, I think I've already said multiple times that I'm not particularly an Android lover, but at this juncture in time there are certain things iOS stubbornly refuses to do that Android does and that may sway my decision in which company gets my money. I'm still waiting for iOS5 and the 10.1 to be released before I make a decision. Honestly, and much to my wife's consternation, I'll probably end up keeping both the ipad/iphone AND having the Galaxy S-2/Tab 10.1 lol, proving I'm very addicted to these gadgets regardless of the company.

 

[fizzwinkus]

not sure what your definition of open is, but the android source is out there. again.. they didn't hold out the OS, just their IPs. please feel free to explain otherwise why you think it isn't in this case. manufacturers can technically still bring out a phone without these apps, but it seems like carriers are preventing them to do so. i'd like to find out more about this separate agreement that carriers have with manufacturers. and you make it sound like google is the only company to have revisions to their terms. i'm not a dev, so i don't know the extent as to how deeply integrated gapps are with google services, so they might just be looking out for when they do update these apps. updates would be quicker if their apps are already in tune with their own services as opposed to third party. but then again.. like i said, we're not sure at the moment if google is indeed quietly trying to muscle out competition. that's for the judge to decide.

You really see no difference between a company needing to occasionally revise terms of an agreement, and arbitrary and undisclosed changes at any time that suits their competitive needs?

 

[NebulaClash]

You really see no difference between a company needing to occasionally revise terms of an agreement, and arbitrary and undisclosed changes at any time that suits their competitive needs?

A difference of degree that is not as big as Android fans think. Apple doesn't impose its will all that often (you see headlines each and every time it happens), and Google imposes its will more often than we notice (you see headlines occasionally and often after the fact). Both are large corporations trying to make money. The key difference between them:

Apple: Makes money by selling devices and services to the end user. The end user is their customer, and that's who they try to please.

Google: Makes money by selling your information to advertisers. The end user is the advertiser, and that's who they try to please. You may think you are Google's customer, but you are really their product being sold.