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IMO, Apple’s greatest legacy was in getting everybody to care more about design. By showing that design can matter in the mass market (as evidenced by customers willing to pay a premium for Apple products, something you still don’t really see in the android market).

For too long, conventional wisdom was that design wasn’t important. The industry’s leaders created crappy software and dull, uninspiring hardware. Apple’s success upended the industry’s value system, and I dare say all of Apple’s competitors value design more today than they did a decade ago: Microsoft, Google, even Samsung.

This is what makes Apple’s continued success impressive, and totally not surprising. It’s a shame that more people feel compelled to explain away Apple’s success here, rather than try to better explain it.
If you wish to admire Apple for proving there is a market for wealthy demographics who are willing to pay a premium for design and materials not unlike the fashion industry, then so be.

Good design need not cost more and there are far more lofty goals reached by other OEM's by bringing technology to the masses at affordable prices that make a more worthy difference to peoples lives IMO.
 
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If you wish to admire Apple for proving there is a market for wealthy demographics who are willing to pay a premium for design and materials not unlike the fashion industry, then so be.

Good design need not cost more and there are far more lofty goals reached by other OEM's by bringing technology to the masses at affordable prices that make a more worthy difference to peoples lives IMO.

Good design always costs more because design doesn't simply happen on its own. The reason why you can get good design for cheap is because once someone puts in the energy to produce a good design, it gets copied by everyone else.

You're also equating design with pretty colors and fashion, but what @Abazigal was referring to was the design of the complete product from hardware to software. Ultimately it's about attention to detail and the paradox of achieving good design is that the better of a job you do, the easier it looks. It's anything but and it's crazy expen$$$ive to do well.
 
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Good design always costs more because design doesn't simply happen on its own. The reason why you can get good design for cheap is because once someone puts in the energy to produce a good design, it gets copied by everyone else.

You're also equating design with pretty colors and fashion, but what @Abazigal was referring to was the design of the complete product from hardware to software. Ultimately it's about attention to detail and the paradox of achieving good design is that the better of a job you do, the easier it looks. It's anything but and it's crazy expen$$$ive to do well.
I think many engineers and designers will disagree with you and it's not about being cheap :)

If you wish to take some possible negatives from the fashion industry and apply them that up to you. There are many positives to be taken and not least of what was being implied as the trickle down factor from high end to low end eventually, that is common place on many goods etc.
 
If you wish to admire Apple for proving there is a market for wealthy demographics who are willing to pay a premium for design and materials not unlike the fashion industry, then so be.

Good design need not cost more and there are far more lofty goals reached by other OEM's by bringing technology to the masses at affordable prices that make a more worthy difference to peoples lives IMO.

I feel “good design” goes beyond simply looking different or being marketed to a different demographic.

Here’s a few examples of how I feel Apple has used design to set itself apart from the competition.

1) The MBA. At a time when most laptop manufacturers were attempting to cram as much hardware as they could into a device (which kinda defeated the point of a portable device), Apple went back to the drawing board. They distilled what they felt were the essentials to a good laptop (keyboard, trackpad, screen, battery) and scrapped everything else. The end result is a thin and light device which people ended up using more, because it was easier to bring about with them. Drawbacks like the lack of a cd-drive or a VGA port were compromises people found themselves willing to live with.

It’s easy to take things away. It’s hard to do so in an intentional manner that enhances the user experience. I feel like many companies hesitate in removing features often deemed “essential” for fear of coming across as being inferior to the competition, spec-wise. Meanwhile, maybe the “stickiness” of the apple ecosystem does buy them some leeway in this regard, and I am thankful for it.

It’s the same with smartphones. Jony Ive and Steve Jobs believed that a larger, sealed battery was better than a smaller, removable one, plus it didn’t interfere with the unibody design of the iphone.

This is what I like about Apple. At a time, and in a world where everyone’s definition of “innovation” is just adding this, squeezing that, cramming everything in, it’s refreshing to have one company actually be willing to sit down and ask themselves - what’s truly essential in a smartphone, and optimise for that. And have the conviction and “courage” to remove stuff if need be.

It’s why I believe Apple can release the iPhone 16 with a straight face, even as the rest of the industry mocks them for lacking 120hz refresh rate or this or that. It’s not about being first or doing the most, but about being the purest distillation of what makes an iphone, an iphone (or a smartphone, a smartphone, for that matter).

2) The square face of the Apple Watch vs the round face of the Samsung-branded smartwatches. It felt like Samsung felt like they had to be different from Apple, and the result was them opting for a form factor which I feel is not conducive to consuming content on the wrist at all.

3) AirPods - from widely-mocked to now being aped by basically everyone in the industry, even Samsung. Except they felt like they had to add glowing LEDs to make themselves stand out. Again, additional features for the sake of being first / different, not necessarily to be better.

4) Apple products cost more because more does go into them. Apart from the hardware (people like to point out Apple’s insane margins), Apple also develops the OS, apps and services that run on their devices. As we speak, they are maintaining iOS, iPadOS, macOS, watchOS, tvOS, visionOS (that’s 6 OSes), plus siri, iMessage, Maps, mail, iCloud, Apple Music, TV+, arcade, their own satellite calling service, the list goes on.

Meanwhile, everyone else just piggybacks off Google’s existing infrastructure and services. It’s cheap, it’s easy, it’s convenient, and it doesn’t really do much to help Android smartphones in standing out from one another.

That Apple makes the money they do is no fluke. Microsoft tried and failed to build up a third smartphone ecosystem. Apple’s profits is the result of a design-led product strategy which integrates hardware and software to create a sufficiently-differentiated experience that customers are willing to pay a premium for.

I could go on, but I need to go for a meeting soon, and so this is my interpretation of what passes for “meaningful innovation”, not just about having more ram or more megapixels or being first with folding screens or whatever the tech buzzword of the month is.
 
I didn't know that to be honest.
It even snapped on magnetically like MagSafe and could be made to display a clock on the screen when charging, like the bedside mode on iOS.

Both Apple and Google have been copying WebOS for years, when palm went belly up loads of WebOS devs jumped ship to both companies.

IMG_0001.jpeg
 
It’s why I believe Apple can release the iPhone 16 with a straight face, even as the rest of the industry mocks them for lacking 120hz refresh rate or this or that. It’s not about being first or doing the most, but about being the purest distillation of what makes an iphone, an iphone (or a smartphone, a smartphone, for that matter).
Seriously? Let’s just call it what it really is… saving money! We all know the game… it’s silly to give Apple a pass for that given the starting price is $800.

Folks are going to buy it… because that’s what available when the upgrade cycle comes, but 60hz is unjustifiable.
 
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Folks are going to buy it… because that’s what available when the upgrade cycle comes, but 60hz is unjustifiable.
I glad we have the option for models with Pro-Motion (albeit more expensive).

A question...what % of the user base notices the benefits of pro-motion in a big way? I'm not disputing it has a substantial impact on some people's user experience, but probably not everyone's.
 
It even snapped on magnetically like MagSafe and could be made to display a clock on the screen when charging, like the bedside mode on iOS.

Both Apple and Google have been copying WebOS for years, when palm went belly up loads of WebOS devs jumped ship to both companies.

View attachment 2481399
The palm pre and webos really were remarkably ahead of their time.

It’s an absolute damn shame webos now just powers some LG TV’s.
 
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I glad we have the option for models with Pro-Motion (albeit more expensive).

A question...what % of the user base notices the benefits of pro-motion in a big way? I'm not disputing it has a substantial impact on some people's user experience, but probably not everyone's.
The fact that most people don't notice and / or don't care is why Apple can get away with an iPhone 16 and charge a premium for it. If customers won't do their own research why not milk them for as much as they can get away with?

I don't agree with that practice, just stating a thought.
 
The fact that most people don't notice and / or don't care is why Apple can get away with an iPhone 16 and charge a premium for it. If customers won't do their own research why not milk them for as much as they can get away with?

I don't agree with that practice, just stating a thought.
It’s not so much “research” as not caring. Older people (40’s+) rarely notice these things.

My opinion on ProMotion, I’ve been avoiding it entirely. Why? Because to my eyes it’s just like Retina, once you actually are using it, you simply can’t go back. I’m on a 13 mini and an iPad mini 5. I’m holding onto them for years to come. I WILL go promotion at that time, but I’m not missing it because I currently don’t have it, but I’m completely aware it’s a one way street for me personally.
 
It’s not so much “research” as not caring. Older people (40’s+) rarely notice these things.

My opinion on ProMotion, I’ve been avoiding it entirely. Why? Because to my eyes it’s just like Retina, once you actually are using it, you simply can’t go back. I’m on a 13 mini and an iPad mini 5. I’m holding onto them for years to come. I WILL go promotion at that time, but I’m not missing it because I currently don’t have it, but I’m completely aware it’s a one way street for me personally.
I’m curious… Have you tried using a monitor with 120hz? Or one of the latest MBPs?
 
I’m curious… Have you tried using a monitor with 120hz? Or one of the latest MBPs?
Only briefly. My Mac is a 2015 MBP that doesn’t get much use (I have several windows machines for work).

I’ve seen the Promotion on an iPad and recognized immediately that if I had one I would need to move all my gear over…but Apple doesn’t make a reasonably sized iPhone anymore so I’m sticking with my 13 mini for several years.

When it’s time to upgrade I’ll be going with ProMotion, but I’m several years away from needing to do that so I’m fine for now.
 
The fact that most people don't notice and / or don't care is why Apple can get away with an iPhone 16 and charge a premium for it. If customers won't do their own research why not milk them for as much as they can get away with?

I don't agree with that practice, just stating a thought.
Shouldn't the fact that most people can't tell the difference mean that it doesn't actually matter and doesn't need to become the default standard? I had to go into System Preferences just now to see whether my MacBook Pro was set to 60Hz or ProMotion because I can't tell a difference, even when I know what the settings are and am looking for it! So why should I have to have a 120Hz screen if it makes absolutely zero difference? If you can tell the difference, and it matters to you, absolutely you should have it!

Who cares what the numbers are on the spec sheet, what is it like to use? How good does it look and feel? Does it do everything I want it to? I remember the spec sheet wars in the 90s and 2000s, and how happy I was when things benchmarked better. Never once did I notice any actual difference in operation, in fact I started converting to Mac because OS X on a 333MHz Power Mac ran more smoothly and stably, if slower in computationally expensive tasks, than my overclocked XP machine!
 
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If you wish to admire Apple for proving there is a market for wealthy demographics who are willing to pay a premium for design and materials not unlike the fashion industry, then so be.

Good design need not cost more and there are far more lofty goals reached by other OEM's by bringing technology to the masses at affordable prices that make a more worthy difference to peoples lives IMO.
Completely ridiculous to equate “good design” with “expensive”.
The first massive design project that Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive worked on together was the first iMac.
And it certainly wasn’t made of the premium materials that Apple uses today, there was no titanium to be found there.
It was blue transparent plastic, and it basically birthed a 90s explosion of home appliances in transparent plastic.
Same with the iconic white plastic front of the iPod and its white plastic headphones. Again, not very premium material, but still great design.
 
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Completely ridiculous to equate “good design” with “expensive”.
The first massive design project that Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive worked on together was the first iMac.
I think Johnny Ive was pretty expensive!

But consider the MacBook Air. With the first, Apple had to have designers come up with that design, engineers figure out how to cram everything into such a body, likely back and forth between them, who knows how many failed efforts to get a working prototype, then even with the prototype in hand the reputational and financial risk of what happens if a substantial minority of them fail once you've told 10's of thousands.

Sure, at this point, it's more an established niche, but to find someone with the vision to see it, engineers with the skill to design it, machinist types with the craft to implement that design, to do all this in a cost effective way, and to keep the cost down to a marketable level...that took some doing.

The first massive design project that Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive worked on together was the first iMac.
And it certainly wasn’t made of the premium materials that Apple uses today, there was no titanium to be found there.
It was blue transparent plastic, and it basically birthed a 90s explosion of home appliances in transparent plastic.
Yes, those were a design shift of a different type, an economical all-in-one.

Apple's design approach has evolved. Instead of colorful plastic and that cute shaped all-in-one, Apple these days seems to go for a kind of industrial artsy aesthetic. No blue transparent plastic. More a preference for making the thing look as close to a featureless unibody piece of aluminum as possible, and/or as thin or small as possible.

A company needs a lot of money to take the risk and make something like this happen.

My point is, there's more to design than somebody like Ive's drawing a pretty picture and pitching it to the CEO. Making that design work, and the actual product, and selling it...
 
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There are a ton of innovations that came first to Samsung, Motorola, and other partners in the early days of Android. It would be silly to ignore that.

This segment has been evolving since the early days of the first feature phones, and Apple too has had some significant innovation.

  • Phones with reversible small connectors. Sure it was passed up by USB-C But it was a welcome and fast alternative to 30 pin of the day.
  • 3D Touch. A new input method Apple forgot to properly promote and later killed
  • Multi-Touch interface . Many, many , many license portions of Apples patents here. Yes the LG Prada had a good looking device ahead of the first iPhone, but lacked the HMI features we all enjoy in Android and iOS today. Samsung had nothing like it back in 2007.
  • Visual voicemail. Remember the days you had to listen to all messages in the order they were recorded?
  • App Store we know and enjoy today. Prior to this, we had carrier apps we could purchase expensive and lame applications on for high prices.
  • Full featured web browser. Sure, windows CE had internet explorer, but it was poorly optimized and super bulky, not optimized for touch.
  • Many many more examples without getting into the weeds.
Cut copy Paste were late to their phones, but Apple had it in MacOS before Android existed. Multi-tasking was late to the phone, but MacOs had it long before Android existed. Actually many features in Android existed in NEXT OS or MacOS

I am well aware that Android / Samsung had multiple industry firsts, it is why I use and enjoy both ecosystems.
 
I have an old 6s I use for some things still and this caught me off guard again recently ..

3D was really great -- I'm surprised they haven't brought it back honestly
Too focused on silly camera buttons and making islands.

It is Sad that Apple forgot their own unique input method.

I still use an Xs Max, 3D still works in some 3rd party applications that adopted it, and is still a great UX addition.
 
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Ahead of Apple? They certainly push the new tech or features ahead of Apple and Androids open source model allows for some newer features to be integrated into Android faster but ahead of Apple I am not so sure.

It is a difference of design philosophy. Apple takes years to develop a device planning every aspect of it way in advance. They don't include things they don't think will be useful and are conservative with new tech to make sure it works right.

Samsung and other Android OEM's have the opposite approach. Samsung is throw everything but the kitchen sink approach and sometimes it is really cool and works and sometimes you get half baked stuff that barely works and is more of a gimmick than a feature.

Apple will introduce a design like the iPhone X and everyone else will copy it for years. Then Apple just refines until the next major redesign. Who is ahead of who??
Uh AI? Apple crapped itself there.
 
True, while also conveniently skirting around the other points that I did raise.

It's times like this that I appreciate Apple having their own music streaming service and TV+. If nobody wants to make content for the Vision Pro, then Apple will. :)

We may never see another company enter the market with a third ecosystem offering, which is why I am happy that Apple decided to go all-in on that when they did (and thus serving as a viable alternative to Android). It's hard to look at the state of affairs like android tv tracking and go "yeah, that's Android OEMs being innovative right there".
Actually, Android is a copy of the iPhone. It was originally a copy of the Blackberry OS but they had to pivot and copy Apple to win out the future. And win they have in sales numbers and penetration. But AAPL has won the money thanks to anticompetitive practices.
 
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