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Ah yes, Apple users are in a cult. Never heard that one before.

And yet here you are, having spent five years posting about how much better Samsung phones are than iPhones on an Apple fan site. But sure, we’re the ones blinded by an unhealthy loyalty to a brand.

I would agree with the point you're trying to make if I posted and trolled in the iPhone forum, but I don't. See how that works? Meanwhile there are plenty of people in the alternatives forum, in a Samsung thread, who don't even own a Samsung phone, but there they are. Will you go have a chat with them?
 
I would agree with the point you're trying to make if I posted and trolled in the iPhone forum, but I don't. See how that works? Meanwhile there are plenty of people in the alternatives forum, in a Samsung thread, who don't even own a Samsung phone, but there they are. Will you go have a chat with them?
I’m assuming most of them arrived here, like I did, from the link on the home page to this thread. Please accept my apologies for not realizing which forum this was in - that definitely makes a difference.

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We definitely will. I'm optimistic, but, to your point, it's definitely not a sure thing. I've just been watching Apple be "late" to things for like twenty years now, and they usually (but not always) pull it off. You're not wrong that it certainly looks from the outside that Apple was caught off-guard with how fast the technology improved, and Apple's commitment to privacy also might be a disadvantage here.

I also am pretty firmly in the camp of thinking we weren't actually supposed to see Apple Intelligence until iOS19, and so it's particularly rough, even for Apple. My thought is the "Apple has no AI story" coverage/pressure was starting to impact the share price, so they released it "early." So I give them a little benefit of the doubt with some of the features being "iffy" right now.
I disagree.....the way they advertised Apple Intelligence and then failed to deliver on pretty much any of it has given Apple a black eye so to speak. Then if .....as you say AI wasn't supposed to debut until IOS 19 this coming fall.....then that even further erodes public perception and confidence. They really botched AI and underestimated the technology and the public's appetite for it.
 
I disagree.....the way they advertised Apple Intelligence and then failed to deliver on pretty much any of it has given Apple a black eye so to speak. Then if .....as you say AI wasn't supposed to debut until IOS 19 this coming fall.....then that even further erodes public perception and confidence. They really botched AI and underestimated the technology and the public's appetite for it.
Understand reasonable people disagree here, but I don’t think Apple “botched” it. Could it be a lot better? Sure. But, I find a lot of the writing tools pretty good. I think Genmoji are super fun, and my kid gets a big kick out of the Image Playground, even if I have no use for it. The notification summaries are amazing when they work (they seem to work great for me in iMessage threads but are inaccurate enough on other notifications that, yeah Apple got punched there.)

Now if we’re sitting here in two or three years and Apple Intelligence hasn’t progressed, then sure. But I also think most consumers don’t care about Apple Intelligence or AI in general. Given my anecdotal polling of friends and family, only nerds like us posting on MacRumors who care. So they’ve got some breathing room.

I remain confident Apple is in a good position here. Like I said upthread, I suspect the worst case scenario they make an acquisition and just rebrand Claude or Perplexity as Siri 3.0. People are going to need devices to run these things, and I don’t see OpenAI building a phone in the near term. The greatest risk I see is Apple Intelligence’s shortcomings leading to Apple not being able to attract ML/AI talent, but I suspect their trillions of dollars can help fix that problem.

But I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again. So entirely possible I’m misreading the situation. Time will tell.
 
If I didn't have my car play issue in my car, I would be back with the Iphone. I like Samsung and Android is decent, but Apple's Ecosystem is second to none and I miss that seamless integration. Also, I think the thing that most frustrates me about Android is I see all these amazing customizations, and I get confused at the part where people talk about KGWZ or whatever that app is or just Icon packs or just how do you decide how you customize. Maybe it's my lack of imagination, but at least with Apple, you get a starting point. I've had this Samsung phone for a year and I even bought Niagara Luancher just to say I can have a different launcher, but I know probably 15-20% of what this phone can actually do. Maybe I just need to find a video on youtube talking about how to customize Android from the standpoint of never using an Android phone before. A lot of those videos are at high school or middle school level. I need something preschool level I feel like.
Just an example of what I mean regarding confusions on Android Customization. I'm currently watching a video from Sam Beckman about how to customize the home screen. He's good and I watch his videos on occasion, but once he got to Icon Packs (And I know what they are, I just don't know why whenever I want to create an icon pack, it doesn't work with all apps and it just ruins the whole experience) and the KWGT widget, I got completely lost. He talked about that app as if I was supposed to know everything about that app and I don't. So he went from an elementary school level in the first half of the video to a high school/college level in the second half and the rest of the video I'm just confused.

That's what I mean about these youtubers talking about customization. Not only that, but some of these things cost a few bucks (Icon Packs, probably that same widget app) and in my mind, it's a convoluted mess. Now I need to go to another video talk about what the hell this KGWT app is and how to use that. And down the rabbit hole I go with Android customization. I guess eventually I will get decent at it with a lot of video watching and learned experience, but because IOS is still in that garden space, it just seemed easier to manage for someone who is not as proficient at it as the tech gurus.
 
If I didn't have my car play issue in my car, I would be back with the Iphone. I like Samsung and Android is decent, but Apple's Ecosystem is second to none and I miss that seamless integration. Also, I think the thing that most frustrates me about Android is I see all these amazing customizations, and I get confused at the part where people talk about KGWZ or whatever that app is or just Icon packs or just how do you decide how you customize. Maybe it's my lack of imagination, but at least with Apple, you get a starting point. I've had this Samsung phone for a year and I even bought Niagara Luancher just to say I can have a different launcher, but I know probably 15-20% of what this phone can actually do. Maybe I just need to find a video on youtube talking about how to customize Android from the standpoint of never using an Android phone before. A lot of those videos are at high school or middle school level. I need something preschool level I feel like.
You probably don’t need much out of a smartphone lol… there’s nothing wrong with that.

I just don't know why whenever I want to create an icon pack, it doesn't work with all apps and it just ruins the whole experience) and the KWGT widget, I got completely lost.
You have to consider there’s millions of apps in the Google Play Store…. And obviously not all icon packs are capable of supporting that many icons. Devs/designers have to specifically create for those icons (they give users an option to request icons).

But you can go through the Theme Store and edit icons, find something similar to the missing icon. If you need more help… I can share a link to a tutorial.

Not only that, but some of these things cost a few bucks (Icon Packs, probably that same widget app) and in my mind, it's a convoluted mess. Now I need to go to another video talk about what the hell this KGWT app is and how to use that.
I disagree on it being a convoluted mess, it’s fairly simple to make a theme with 3rd party icon packs. And I enjoy using KWGT, admittedly there’s a learning curve to it. But after some time with it… it’s not too difficult to get the results you want, plus there’s plenty of 3rd party KWGT widgets.
 
You probably don’t need much out of a smartphone lol… there’s nothing wrong with that.


You have to consider there’s millions of apps in the Google Play Store…. And obviously not all icon packs are capable of supporting that many icons. Devs/designers have to specifically create for those icons (they give users an option to request icons).

But you can go through the Theme Store and edit icons, find something similar to the missing icon. If you need more help… I can share a link to a tutorial.


I disagree on it being a convoluted mess, it’s fairly simple to make a theme with 3rd party icon packs. And I enjoy using KWGT, admittedly there’s a learning curve to it. But after some time with it… it’s not too difficult to get the results you want, plus there’s plenty of 3rd party KWGT widgets.

Can you share that tutorial link. Might be very helpful.
 
Nope there was a time when a device called iphone was introduced for the first time, Samsung copied them with the first Galaxy.
 
Can you share that tutorial link. Might be very helpful.
You are correct about these tutorials not going in depth with installing 3rd party icons on Theme Park because it ends when they install it. They don’t attempt to find the missing icons…

But here’s a link to give you an idea of how to go about changing icons… if you need more help, feel free to let me know. And I suggest starting at 3:20.

 
One look at the responses of my previous post, and it's point proven. One responder thinks I was saying Apple users are forced to buy in, when I clearly called them willing prisoners to the ecosystem. SMH.

Another thinks Apple is treated as a luxury product. The only people that would even entertain this thought are blind loyalists. I don't know a single person outside that group that thinks any phone is a luxury product. People on food stamps and social assistance have iPhones and S-Ultra phones, and any other flagship phone. Lol. Luxury?

So as you can see the elevated glorification and blind defense is live in well within the cult mentality. Point proven.
Calling iPhone users ‘willing prisoners’ is fairly pejorative. How is it any different to Android use? Choosing Google’s loose ecosystem isn’t a morally superior position. They’re smartphones. Everyone has a different decision matrix of preferences and requirements, Android suits some, iOS suits others, some really do like foldable phones, and some really don’t. You choose your flavour and go with it. They all have pros and cons.

That elevated glorification and blind defence is quite observable in the Android cult as well. Human nature is what it is, and tribalism just changes its theme over the years.
 
Understand reasonable people disagree here, but I don’t think Apple “botched” it. Could it be a lot better? Sure. But, I find a lot of the writing tools pretty good. I think Genmoji are super fun, and my kid gets a big kick out of the Image Playground, even if I have no use for it. The notification summaries are amazing when they work (they seem to work great for me in iMessage threads but are inaccurate enough on other notifications that, yeah Apple got punched there.)

Now if we’re sitting here in two or three years and Apple Intelligence hasn’t progressed, then sure. But I also think most consumers don’t care about Apple Intelligence or AI in general. Given my anecdotal polling of friends and family, only nerds like us posting on MacRumors who care. So they’ve got some breathing room.

I remain confident Apple is in a good position here. Like I said upthread, I suspect the worst case scenario they make an acquisition and just rebrand Claude or Perplexity as Siri 3.0. People are going to need devices to run these things, and I don’t see OpenAI building a phone in the near term. The greatest risk I see is Apple Intelligence’s shortcomings leading to Apple not being able to attract ML/AI talent, but I suspect their trillions of dollars can help fix that problem.

But I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again. So entirely possible I’m misreading the situation. Time will tell.
Apple are only suffering in some micro-YouTuber-verse where its a selling point. Yes, Apple is pushing it in their marketing but consumer reaction is that buyers just don't care about Apple Intelligence or AI in general. Its not as good as the competition but as few people are using it, nobody noticed.
 
That elevated glorification and blind defence is quite observable in the Android cult as well. Human nature is what it is, and tribalism just changes its theme over the years.
At least with Sega vs Nintendo each camp had a point! Beyond hardware gimmicks on the Android side and a richer app marketplace on the Apple side the differences between the two platforms are swings and roundabouts. Each year one of them pulls another piece from the carcass of Windows Phone and webOS, calls it innovation and then it ends up on the other platform. Round and round they go.
 
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At least with Sega vs Nintendo each camp had a point! Beyond hardware gimmicks on the Android side and a richer app marketplace on the Apple side the differences between the two platforms are swings and roundabouts. Each year one of them pulls another piece from the carcass of Windows Phone and webOS, calls it innovation and then it ends up on the other platform. Round and round they go.
Windows Phone was the only non-iPhone option that had a chance to tempt me away from my iPhones, but they died before it happened. A couple of friends had Windows Phones, and I loved them. If Microsoft hadn’t handled them so ineptly, I believe the smartphone market would have been much better off.
 
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Windows Phone was the only non-iPhone option that had a chance to tempt me away from my iPhones, but they died before it happened. A couple of friends had Windows Phones, and I loved them. If Microsoft hadn’t handled them so ineptly, I believe the smartphone market would have been much better off.
Palm were never going to compete because they lacked the pockets. Microsoft just couldn't stick with one idea. The base Windows Phone 8 was magnificent. It ran at high speed on low-spec devices and plugged right into Office and Xbox. Lumia devices were some of the best phones ever created with wild colours and useful features like manual camera settings. Up until recently the legendary 1020 could still hold its own.
 
I am receiving my S25 Ultra on Wednesday, and I'm definitely going to need some help figuring this phone out. I'm hoping after a week, I am able learn how to adjust the volume.
i know, my neighbors here get over-whelmed and forget how to tie their shoes!
just fiddling with their samsung phones seems a step or two more to adjust simple things.
 
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Samsung is so far beyond your old talking points. The ecosystem argument is more stale than the "Apple does it right, rather than first" BS. How's that small 3.5 inch screen being the perfect size argument working for your you? How's the split screen multi tasking to make use of a larger screen size working for you? How's that late to the party Apple intelligence working for you? Apple does it right? Siri-ously? Lol. Apple, the new BB/Nokia. There's no ecosystem bigger and more flexible than Samsung's, and you get it all without any of that brain dead drone mentality of being locked in. We're in a new era, wake up and get out of the past.

Apple is this way because their blind loyalist client base aren't as critical as the client base for Android OEMs. Android users will drop an OEM as soon as they feel they're getting ripped off. There's more choice.

Apple Intelligence is late, but it's because they did it right. Sure. Absolute joke. Lol


Maybe what we're in the middle of right now is like approaching a Give Way sign on the road - proceed with caution ... as you really don't know what's around the next corner. My Apple stuff does the essential things well and I have had a look at friends' Android devices. The synergy between devices is important to me and that means the link between Macs and iPhones. Let me know when Samsung start building Macs.
 
Understand reasonable people disagree here, but I don’t think Apple “botched” it. Could it be a lot better? Sure. But, I find a lot of the writing tools pretty good. I think Genmoji are super fun, and my kid gets a big kick out of the Image Playground, even if I have no use for it. The notification summaries are amazing when they work (they seem to work great for me in iMessage threads but are inaccurate enough on other notifications that, yeah Apple got punched there.)

Now if we’re sitting here in two or three years and Apple Intelligence hasn’t progressed, then sure. But I also think most consumers don’t care about Apple Intelligence or AI in general. Given my anecdotal polling of friends and family, only nerds like us posting on MacRumors who care. So they’ve got some breathing room.

I remain confident Apple is in a good position here. Like I said upthread, I suspect the worst case scenario they make an acquisition and just rebrand Claude or Perplexity as Siri 3.0. People are going to need devices to run these things, and I don’t see OpenAI building a phone in the near term. The greatest risk I see is Apple Intelligence’s shortcomings leading to Apple not being able to attract ML/AI talent, but I suspect their trillions of dollars can help fix that problem.

But I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again. So entirely possible I’m misreading the situation. Time will tell.
They were advertising AI features in commercials that were not available at the time the commercials were airing. Not all of those features are available today. It has been 5 months later. How is that not botched?

I think most reasonable people would agree Apple Intelligence has not been implemented very well at this point.
Then the features that were advertised and promoted do not work as well as competitors.

Throwing trillions of dollars at solving problems is not the solution here. There are multitudes of examples over the years of companies that has tried this method and failed miserably.

I mean Apple buying Siri in 2010 is a prime example of this failure.
 
No they haven't. Anyone remember when Samsung copied Apple so hard on the iPad Samsungs lawyers couldn't tell them apart? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
 
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Samsung or Googles Android and Apple's iOS copy each other all the time.

However, Apple was first with a touch interface type OS we have all become accustomed to. Google copied iOS and developed Android originally.

Only Microsoft was truly different but it was also a copy of Android and iOS just done using MS design and kernel.

I had a few Windows phones and I loved them. I thought the UI was unique and fun. I really wish MS didn't just give up and that OEM'S besides one or two really embraced it. It would be great to have 3 OS to choose from.

Can you imagine a folding Windows phone with tight integration with Windows laptops and office?? I think it would be pretty cool!
 
No they haven't. Anyone remember when Samsung copied Apple so hard on the iPad Samsungs lawyers couldn't tell them apart? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
anyone remember when Apple (Steve Jobs) said the iPhone 4 with 3.5 inch display was perfect. That no one would want a larger display.....then Apple went on to copy Samsung and others to make phones with bigger displays.

Listen we could play this game all day long on who copied who.....because they all copy each other!
 
IMO, Apple’s greatest legacy was in getting everybody to care more about design. By showing that design can matter in the mass market (as evidenced by customers willing to pay a premium for Apple products, something you still don’t really see in the android market).

For too long, conventional wisdom was that design wasn’t important. The industry’s leaders created crappy software and dull, uninspiring hardware. Apple’s success upended the industry’s value system, and I dare say all of Apple’s competitors value design more today than they did a decade ago: Microsoft, Google, even Samsung.

This is what makes Apple’s continued success impressive, and totally not surprising. It’s a shame that more people feel compelled to explain away Apple’s success here, rather than try to better explain it.
 
What are you talking about..

I got my S24 late last year.. feels like a 2005 Symbian S60. Ugh so ugly.. I keep it as a secondary phone.
I dont even want to think how it was around 2013.. good Lord.
 
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