Samsung Reveals Extent of Note7 Battery Fire Investigation

[69Mustang]

Thanks, but your links aren't working. I did find the companies but not the actual reports.

I did find the one I was thinking of:
http://pocketnow.com/2016/12/04/galaxy-note-7-tolerances-design-analysis
quote: 'In a teardown and analysis of a single unit, her team had found that normal operation of the Galaxy Note 7 allowed the phone to expand and encroach upon the battery. This put inward pressure against the positive cell layer and the negative cell layer, along with the insulating layers in between. When these layers are squeezed too closely, the insulation essentially becomes useless as the charged layers begin to feed energy into each other and ramp up the temperature, thus risking fumes and explosion.'

Apologies for the broken links. I was typing that while driving (with my knee) in traffic on a video conference call and eating a chilli cheese dog... and drinking scotch in my hot coffee. Ars has a more in depth article that links the separate .pdfs from each company.
Link to Ars article: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017...tion-blames-small-battery-cases-poor-welding/
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Well, I can tell you did not watch the broadcast. The tape was missing in the replacement batteries. It was due to them rushing the replacements out. They even said that in the reports.

You didn't quite understand what you read in my quote. In fact, in that quote I said the same thing you did in your reply: " The missing insulation tape in some of the batteries is more likely a negative effect of people trying to meet accelerated production quotas in the battery factory. Taking shortcuts to meet quotas is a nasty aspect of factory work." - Me

The "rushed" I was referencing in my quote was the oft quoted Samsung rushed the Note 7 out to beat the iPhone 7. Erroneous since the Note was released during the same time frame as the previous one. As I clearly said here: "Why is this point of view so pervasive? History says they didn't rush anything. They released the Note in the same timeframe as the previous Note." - Me too

And you're right. I didn't watch the broadcast. That however doesn't change the fact that you misinterpreted what you read in my quote. It happens. No biggie.

 

[chr1s60]

They demonstrated all phones have similar issues, a human can block the signal. They then decided all the bad publicity warranted the expense of issuing a free placebo for those who felt something was wrong. A marketing solution to a marketing problem.

Nothing more than a distraction by Apple in an attempt to make it seem like a non issue. It was never in question that a phone could lose signal from human interference. The issue was it took next to no interference on the iPhone 4. That's why the so called "death grip" came about. The death grip method is what apple found could alter signal on other phones so they attributed that same grip to their phone to make it seem like a common issue. I've never had a phone in my life outside of the iPhone 4 that would lose signal by simply putting my finger on the antenna band line. Apple put on a well thought out show that Steve was more than likely behind because he never believed any of his products could be less than perfect. It's in the past now and hopefully iPhones will never have an issue like that again, but it was 100% an issue with the phone and not how people were holding it.

 

[Analog Kid]

I don't think we can expect much more than this from Samsung. It's already more than I was expecting. The conclusions weren't terribly surprising, but good to have the information put out there-- even included an infographic to make the information more consumable.

Basically it sounds like the specs came down to pack too much power in too small a space, perhaps to continue their assault on Apple's battery life. What I'm curious about is how this wasn't caught-- were the battery engineers not aware of the danger, did they not push back, or was management not willing to listen to the feedback.

Hopefully they've at least figured that bit out internally and will proceed appropriately.

Also very interesting to see them say there's no schedule on the S8. The world is going to forget this quickly, but not if another catastrophe follows on its heels.

The real problem is the quest for even thinner devices. The designers set the limit for the battery manufacturer so they had to squeeze in all the power in such a small package. You have to save space somewhere, so there is less isolation between the cells. Apple has been lucky so far but I doubt Jony has learnt anything from this disaster. I fear that we can expect something similar hitting Apple in the future.

Kept your quote intact because I agree with the first part, but the last part I think is unduly cynical. If you've heard anything about Apple's design process, they are much more likely to receive and respond to feedback from all engineering teams. If the battery team thought they were being asked to put too much power in too little space, I think that information would be much more likely to bubble up and be taken seriously.

There's still the question of quality control at their vendors when facing intense pressure from a customer as big as Apple-- Apple in deeply involved in overseeing quality control among their vendors, but it's still a step removed. Still, that's not a Ive responsibility, thats Ops.

Samsung's Note7 test facility.​

Anybody see theirs in there? Next time there's a recall, I need to remember to put an identifying mark on the return...

For comparison, remember this leaked photo of a haphazard iPhone 5C test rack at the factory, with just a few dozen production units under test at a time?

Comparing a staged photo from a press conference by a company showing how they're addressing an embarrassing failure to a leaked photo of what someone calls a test rig for a device with no major failures of this type is a bit disingenuous.

 

[apolloa]

Cool, so there was nothing wrong with the phone itself. Their design team can rest and I would imagine a similar design for the Note 8.
But it's bad for the battery team which as I understand makes batteries for others including Apple? Hmm I suspect someone is in for a telling off.

 

[Apple 26.2]

...suggesting Samsung is being careful not to put itself under undue pressure for its comeback after last year's Note7 debacle, which was said to be a result of the company trying to beat Apple's iPhone 7 to market.

I hope this is a lesson to both Samsung and Apple to do their due diligence before releasing unfinished products to the consumer.

Also, kudos to Samsung for putting their big boy pants on and facing the music on this one.

 

[admob71]

In my region Samsung is usually the cheapest brands of washing machines. So I say the cheapest brand will always have problems!

And what region would that be? Monaco, bell air? Samsung are never the cheapest of products.. there's always some unknown white goods on offer, everywhere...

 

[Dropbrian]

The Note 7 was a worthy competitor to the iPhone 7+, and likely bests the Pixel XL for most Android users.
I'm on this site for my iPad Pro; Android tablets are dreadful, but I might buy another Android phone yet.

My "lesson" personally, here, is that Apple can handle its "f-you-make-it-thinner" design aesthetic, at least with enough design and safety experience and elan to not make phones that blow up. I'm sure this production ability includes micro-managing their overseas partners at various steps in the process, etc. Samsung tried to be aggressive and made a damage-prone battery; in haste to rush out functional batteries, their (alternate, non-Samsung) supplier did a poor job installing the new, safer-designed batteries.

I don't need the thinnest, sexist phone. I would have literally bought a rebranded Note 7 in a chunkier, larger case with a safer battery. I will likely seriously consider a Note 8 (or whatever they end up calling it). But for my friends who prefer Apple already, my friends who like the trendiest look, and my friends who get a little paranoid about technology, I just won't recommend Samsung (or really Android, generally).

I appreciate they released all this information; it makes me feel more comfortable buying a smartphone from them in the future. But they can't be the market leader, not now, not for a long time; they can't command the top design spot, either. Just, no. You want quad-HD, you want a microSD slot, you want swim-worthy waterproofing, you want all those little touches Phandroids can't shut up about, you want Samsung. Still. You want something sexy and effortless, you want Apple. Still.

 

[macTW]

The joys of a free market. The quality and thoroughness of Samsung's investigation was brought about by trying to save face with the public. I respect that.

 

[citysnaps]

...suggesting Samsung is being careful not to put itself under undue pressure for its comeback after last year's Note7 debacle, which was said to be a result of the company trying to beat Apple's iPhone 7 to market.

I hope this is a lesson to both Samsung and Apple to do their due diligence before releasing unfinished products to the consumer.

Also, kudos to Samsung for putting their big boy pants on and facing the music on this one.

Haha, big boy pants indeed! Obfuscating the situation by referring to their first battery supplier as "Manufacturer A" instead of SAMSUNG SDI !

Too funny!

 

[ZZ9pluralZalpha]

Is this really how you would design a test facility to isolate an issue with combusting phones, though? Each test unit going off--which presumably is the goal of the testing--will destroy/damage/affect/trigger a large number of its neighbors, thus wrecking those tests and straining the telemetry recording system. I would have expected at least flame-retardant pads placed between each phone...

 

[danakin]

Well, they did let the press into the testing lab for the 6 Plus, which affected less than 100 phones and was the owners fault
Plus the phone wasn't a securities risk to consumers

In no way was the Note 7 a "securities risk"...


... unless, of course, you didn't short Samsung stock ahead of its release.

 

[Gix1k]

I wonder if one of my two Note 7s is in that photo. I miss you so much

 

[kdarling]

They demonstrated all phones have similar issues, a human can block the signal.

That's the impression they wanted you to keep, and apparently it worked. You've totally forgotten that a single pinky touch could instantly detune the phone's antenna and drop a call. No death grip needed.

That's why a simple rubber bumper was able to solve the problem. (Hint: a bumper does not solve death grips or any other signal blocking by humans.)

Heck, the fact that Apple required its field testers to always use a case, is why the entire problem was hidden from Apple until units reached the public.

Comparing a staged photo from a press conference by a company showing how they're addressing an embarrassing failure to a leaked photo of what someone calls a test rig for a device with no major failures of this type is a bit disingenuous.

Yeah, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. It's hard to post using an iPad mini in bed in the morning sometimes

The comparison was to show that people's concepts of tight default quality control at a Chinese factory are likely overblown, and that it's ridiculous to think that any company normally does testing on a mass scale for problems they do not expect.

Is this really how you would design a test facility to isolate an issue with combusting phones, though? Each test unit going off--which presumably is the goal of the testing--will destroy/damage/affect/trigger a large number of its neighbors, thus wrecking those tests and straining the telemetry recording system. I would have expected at least flame-retardant pads placed between each phone...

It would likely barely affect its neighbors. Even if it did, it would only scorch the phones on each side.

They don't actually explode into pieces you know. They usually give off a (sometimes big) poof of smoke, and don't even always burst into flames, but often just melt internally.

 

[tongxinshe]

I blame consumers. No seriously. We want it cheap and fast... result = companies will make them cheap and fast... result = poor quality control.

Samsung Note is never cheap!

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

and said it would take steps to improve its battery diagnostic and controller software.

Thank God! About time. Samsungs BMS was never really reliable. I remember a lot devices with batteries getting thick quickly (overcharge, overtemp). Since that happened to different batteries (of different brands) it's clearly the BMS to blame.

I blame consumers. No seriously. We want it cheap and fast... result = companies will make them cheap and fast... result = poor quality control.

What exactly was cheap on a Note 7? You're wrong. Customers ARE willing to pay. Actually pay a lot. 700 bucks+ for a phone. They picked good and fast, but not cheap. Unfortunately, Samsung was greedy enought to sell a cheap device for a high price to get a huge margin. The margin is so high, that Samsung sold the S7 for 1+1 free in December. Now they will hopefully at least fix the battery issues.
I'm not bashing here, it's just my personal experience: I once owned the first Note (which killed a battery every 6 month) which at that time was a great device - 440 bucks on launch for the first phablet with top notch hardware except for the pentile matrix. While I was quite satisfied with the device, I learned how low quality the manufacturing is. Especially the battery problems, which I've observed on successors, especially the S3 which was used as company phone. When such an issue remains in production devices for many generations I simply can't trust the manufacturer to deliver quality. The Note 7 was just the logical consequence of this. The Note 7 disaster shouldn't have happened in first place.

Holy moly... that's a lot of phones on test! Have to admire Samsung for being so open and so thorough about this.

Well... **** already happened. They admitted that they scr**ed up. So, this is to win back trust. And they really need to. They need to show that they do everything to pinpoint and eliminate the problem. I would assume no one knew if the problem was existing in their other phones as well (even if it doesn't set those phones on fire) and authorities such as the FCC demanded a thorough investigation.

 

[lordofthereef]

Never owned a samsung smartphone, but I give props to them here. Unsure what it takes for the skeptics to get on board, but frankly there probably isn't anything they could do, and these people probably weren't ever going to buy a smasung phone in the first place.

A commendable effort that desrves praise.

 

[masteroflondon]

That's the impression they wanted you to keep, and apparently it worked. You've totally forgotten that a single pinky touch could instantly detune the phone's antenna and drop a call. No death grip needed.

That's why a simple rubber bumper was able to solve the problem. (Hint: a bumper does not solve death grips or any other signal blocking by humans.)

Heck, the fact that Apple required its field testers to always use a case, is why the entire problem was hidden from Apple until units reached the public.

Well, to be fair, it's natural I might forget, since I never encountered the issue. I wonder what percentage of people did? Ideally, it would be 0%. I'm sure it wasn't. But the flaw must surely be judged in terms of the percentage of people to encounter it. If only one person were ever to 'hold it wrong', the phrase would not seem bad. If everyone did so, then the phrase would be idiotic. Do we have any numbers?

 

[kdarling]

Well, to be fair, it's natural I might forget, since I never encountered the issue.

Oh, it's certainly not your fault for thinking what you did. After all, that was the entire reason why Apple dragged other phones into the conversation. Misdirection at its Jobsian best. He knew that's what would get repeated and remembered.

I'm telling ya, if we ever need a Propaganda Department in some future war, Apple should be our first pick

Will respond to the rest later on. Gotta cook dinner.

 

[slingshott]

Mistakes happen, I don't hold it against them. You also know it will never ever happen again. I can't really get on my high horse as an Apple user because of bendgate anyway plus iPhones have caught fire before. Props to Samsung for owning their mistake.

 

[KillaMac]

Mistakes happen, I don't hold it against them. You also know it will never ever happen again. I can't really get on my high horse as an Apple user because of bendgate anyway plus iPhones have caught fire before. Props to Samsung for owning their mistake.

Oh I understand that, but I don't like how they handled it. Paying off people to keep their mouth quiet, and the comments that leaked they said about their customers. That was a big turn off.

But I loved my Note 7 so much, that I do plan to get a Note 8 when they come out.

 

[I7guy]

Oh, it's certainly not your fault for thinking what you did. After all, that was the entire reason why Apple dragged other phones into the conversation. Misdirection at its Jobsian best. He knew that's what would get repeated and remembered.

I'm telling ya, if we ever need a Propaganda Department in some future war, Apple should be our first pick

Will respond to the rest later on. Gotta cook dinner.

But still a little deflection is not on par with an incendiary device; no matter how it's cut.

 

[frankgrimes]

It's simple: bring back removable batteries and don't release the phone before it's ready

 

[kdarling]

But still a little deflection is not on par with an incendiary device; no matter how it's cut.

Apple has had plenty of its own fire and shock hazard products in the past. Some took them years to acknowledge; others they never accepted responsibility for, and it required class actions to get them to do anything.

But okay, fair enough, you're saying that you think that if Apple had had the same battery problems as Samsung, they'd have done no deflection. Do you also think they'd have stopped selling that iPhone model and recall them all? Perhaps so. With iPhones being the majority revenue for Apple, that would've been a much bigger hit for Apple than it was for Samsung with one model out of dozens.

I'm hoping we'll never have to see this situation again. Hopefully every manufacturer is now going to do much more massive stress testing before launches. And certainly Samsung showed the way when it comes to rapid recalls once a problem is known.

--
Here's my own question: if the battery really was the problem, then is it possible that Samsung could take the 3+ million Notes it recalled, give them a new battery, and sell them for a deal in developing countries? Or are they just going to recycle parts and write the loss off.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Best explanation.

 

[Cycling Asia]

Short circuit issue in the first battery, welding defect in the second... I actually don't believe that is the case. Samsung probably do not know the issue and needed to put the blame on something obvious. Let's see the "lesson they have learnt" when the S8 explodes.

They need to learn from the USA (if you don't want to accept reality, blame the Russians). See, what happened was that Russia hacked into the battery manufacturing plant in order to install the election hacking software, but installed a hack into the battery manufacturing assembly line which resulted in the batteries exploding in the hopes of removing HCR supporters from the voter pool. Oh, and when the batteries explode, they emit an RF signal that is capable of infecting nearby batteries.