Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Samsung's 'Crisis of Design' Memo Enters Patent Trial as Early Apple Designer Testifies on Confusion
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
So a phone icon and messages bubble must have green? And contacts brown/orange? And photos with a flower icon? And...you get the point.
The copying is downright blatant. I get that a phone or tablet can only be designed so many ways, and icons can only be so different. But you cannot possibly look at the collective whole of Samsung's products and deny that they are trying to copy Apple. This is about the collective whole, not just one phone or a set of icons.
Funny. Now that they are all side to side - it's apparent that Samsung's green is different. Their phone is at a different angle and has a 3d effect and the background is different.
You might not like the similarity. But as far as an actual trademark violation - I see none.
Here's a quick google search of "green phone icon" - looks like a lot of people should be sued by Apple, right?
I don't understand how a former APPLE designer Susan Kare could be used as an expert supposedly neutral witness. Even so, if she picked up a Samsung phone and thought it wa an iPhone she's anything BUT an expert. Jeez.
In case case, if Apple wins this ridiculous lawsuit I will never buy an Apple product again. I really mean that.
If you knew who Susan Kare was you wouldn't dismiss her so easily.
Well it's more than that. The major complaint is that it causes customer confusion. That people might buy a Samsung device either thinking it's an Apple or that it's just as good as an Apple.
I'm more than willing to let the courts decide. At the end of the day - I don't care who wins. Actually that's not true. I think that if Apple wins - the industry as a whole is a little worse off for several reasons. But I'm not against Apple winning.
About as much as Apple needs you on theirs
----------
No. I don't believe he said that about Samsung. I believe he said that about Google and Android. Let's not misquote?
Oops, your right. But ironically Samsung does use Android for a lot of their stuff.
Obviously I can understand fanboyism and passion for certain companies and products.
What I can't understand is how anyone of sound mind can come in here and argue that Samsung's icons as presented in this case aren't a complete and obvious ripoff of Apple's. Good grief.
That's not fanboyism. That's complete ignorance or denial.
What I can't understand is how anyone of sound mind can come in here and argue that Samsung's icons as presented in this case aren't a complete and obvious ripoff of Apple's. Good grief.
That's not fanboyism. That's complete ignorance or denial.
I didn't mention the phone icon since that doesn't seem problematic to me. As for the others, though the colors are not exact matches, nor is the design, I'd say they are pretty close when contrasted with the majority of other designs and color palettes used by other developers, as seen in the App Store. Also, one instance on its own doesn't seem especially problematic, but the conglomeration strikes me as less easy to defend.
They also all are pretty standard icon designs dating back before Apple used them.
The memo reads to me more like "Ok, we've got a new competitor and their new UI makes ours look terrible. We need to step it up and modernize our design".
At the same point, you have to remember that the Samsung UI on android based devices is just that - ANDROID. So you can hardly start calling Samsung out for copying icons when in many of the Samsung builds they are using stock Android icon.
Either way, Apple really DID NOT design a unique, unseen new type of icon. You only have to look at the likes of Palm and even some of the freely available Windows Mobile skins that were around to know that.
The icons have quite simply evolved over time. For an example, look at a screenshot of stock Android 2.3 (gingerbread) on the Nexus S. You'll notice a 3-icon dock with a green phone. The next icon released by google was the same phone and the same green. The only difference was that they made the background of the phone the green color, and the phone symbol was white.
Whilst I do think that Samsung (or more specifically ALL of the 'big boys' running on Android (Samsung, HTC, LG, etc) have taken some heavy influence from the UI of iOS, they have not 'blatantly ripped it off' or stolen anything directly. This goes down the same lines as the Mac VS Windows debate. The natural progression was that better hardware allows for more advanced UI concepts to be used without it causing fundamental UX issues.
The argument is so silly that its got to the point where people are now claiming that ALL phones made after 2007 MUST be a rip off of the iPhone. Some people really need to listen to the complete crap they are spewing out. I'm an Apple fan as much as the next guy, but some people are just completely deluded here.
The bottom line is that Apple are trying to stop competition. They are scared of Samsung, and rightly so if the recent sales figures are to continue. This is not the correct way to stop your competition. If you want to beat them, make your stuff better.
One final thing. Just to put this out there about the icons, take a look at the LG Optimus 4X HD P880 (god thats a terrible name) - it has the same style icons: http://www.lg.com/uk/mobile-phones/lg-P880 . HTC also use a similar icon: http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/ - it's a fairly standard icon. It's a damn phone symbol.
(Sidenote for the immature kids: I'm not a 'fanboy', 'fandroid', etc - I dont idiotically worship any company, I simply use some of their products that do what I need them to...you know, like any sane human being would)
At the same point, you have to remember that the Samsung UI on android based devices is just that - ANDROID. So you can hardly start calling Samsung out for copying icons when in many of the Samsung builds they are using stock Android icon.
Either way, Apple really DID NOT design a unique, unseen new type of icon. You only have to look at the likes of Palm and even some of the freely available Windows Mobile skins that were around to know that.
The icons have quite simply evolved over time. For an example, look at a screenshot of stock Android 2.3 (gingerbread) on the Nexus S. You'll notice a 3-icon dock with a green phone. The next icon released by google was the same phone and the same green. The only difference was that they made the background of the phone the green color, and the phone symbol was white.
Whilst I do think that Samsung (or more specifically ALL of the 'big boys' running on Android (Samsung, HTC, LG, etc) have taken some heavy influence from the UI of iOS, they have not 'blatantly ripped it off' or stolen anything directly. This goes down the same lines as the Mac VS Windows debate. The natural progression was that better hardware allows for more advanced UI concepts to be used without it causing fundamental UX issues.
The argument is so silly that its got to the point where people are now claiming that ALL phones made after 2007 MUST be a rip off of the iPhone. Some people really need to listen to the complete crap they are spewing out. I'm an Apple fan as much as the next guy, but some people are just completely deluded here.
The bottom line is that Apple are trying to stop competition. They are scared of Samsung, and rightly so if the recent sales figures are to continue. This is not the correct way to stop your competition. If you want to beat them, make your stuff better.
One final thing. Just to put this out there about the icons, take a look at the LG Optimus 4X HD P880 (god thats a terrible name) - it has the same style icons: http://www.lg.com/uk/mobile-phones/lg-P880 . HTC also use a similar icon: http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/ - it's a fairly standard icon. It's a damn phone symbol.
(Sidenote for the immature kids: I'm not a 'fanboy', 'fandroid', etc - I dont idiotically worship any company, I simply use some of their products that do what I need them to...you know, like any sane human being would)
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks - since you're the expert on both...
You've missed the point. I was illustrating that these are common ideas for icons. Many of them predating Apple's usage.
Fair enough.
I haven't read the article yet, but I've seen photos of Samsung's store displays where they even have the walls decorated with iOS only icons.
I don't think this is solely about "cash". I think Apple should pursue this... IMO and based on the images I've seen, Samsung copied Apple's design... seems clear to me.
The icon for the photo app using the flower. I don't think its standard, as far as I can tell.
Trademark infringement is a violation of the exclusive rights attaching to a trademark without the authorization of the trademark owner or any licensees (provided that such authorization was within the scope of the license). Infringement may occur when one party, the "infringer", uses a trademark which is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark owned by another party, in relation to products or services which are identical or similar to the products or services which the registration covers. An owner of a trademark may commence legal proceedings against a party which infringes its registration.
In trademark law, confusing similarity is a test used during the examination process to determine whether a trademark conflicts with another, earlier mark, and also in trademark infringement proceedings to determine whether the use of a mark infringes a registered trade mark.
In many jurisdictions this test has been superseded by the concepts of similarity and likelihood of confusion, due to the harmonizing effects of the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights.
In trademark law, confusing similarity is a test used during the examination process to determine whether a trademark conflicts with another, earlier mark, and also in trademark infringement proceedings to determine whether the use of a mark infringes a registered trade mark.
In many jurisdictions this test has been superseded by the concepts of similarity and likelihood of confusion, due to the harmonizing effects of the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights.
It's all fun and games for you guys until KnightWRX dude and the Mac demi-god guy comes and destroys every single one of your arguments.
Stop getting your news and info from forums. Sincerely.
That picture you speak of was not Samsung's booth or store. It was a vendor who sold Samsung's products.
Wow. And people wonder why some of us try and at least show some perspective and correct people with facts vs made up facts from the air.
I'm looking forward to the "I was confused" treatment being used more in litigation actions. C'mon Sue, is that the best you can come up with, I picked up a Samsung and thought it was an iPhone. Like you wouldn't w=say that otherwise, would you? 
Source: 15+ years in branding
Respectfully, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Here are the U.S. Government's criteria for evaluating trademark violation allegations:
1. Strength of the mark
2. Proximity of the goods
3. Similarity of the marks
4. Evidence of actual confusion
5. Marketing channels used
6. Type of goods and the degree of care likely to be exercised by the purchaser
7. Defendant's intent in selecting the mark
8. Likelihood of expansion of the product lines
By your standard, one could take the Apple logo and flip it so the "bite" is on the other side, slap it on a computer, call it "Mapple" and operate freely. I mean, it's not identical, right?
Respectfully, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Here are the U.S. Government's criteria for evaluating trademark violation allegations:
1. Strength of the mark
2. Proximity of the goods
3. Similarity of the marks
4. Evidence of actual confusion
5. Marketing channels used
6. Type of goods and the degree of care likely to be exercised by the purchaser
7. Defendant's intent in selecting the mark
8. Likelihood of expansion of the product lines
By your standard, one could take the Apple logo and flip it so the "bite" is on the other side, slap it on a computer, call it "Mapple" and operate freely. I mean, it's not identical, right?
Yes. And one must blind to say that the ones in the Nokia are similar to the ones in iOS.